I cheated, now my life is destroyed. (long )

[Owl6118]

The resistance to disagree with sincere posters and the insistence to disagree and paint the advice as not up to par with her views shows that she's not getting it.

 

I don't disagree but almost no one gets it right away. Especially not the people who end up here. If they found this stuff obvious and instinctive they wouldn't be here in the first place.

 

She really believes her love will overcome anything she puts her husband through. It's still a self centered objective and she will fight to put HER life back in order.

 

It's as though she does not realize her husband is not an extension of herself, that his identity is moulded to her orbit and she can not wrap her mind around that the concept that he has thrown her out instead of blaming himself and begging for her to come back.

 

Yes, it's still the catastrophic failure of empathy. But it is not easy to be able to accept the simple awful truth--with is that "I loved you, but not nearly as much as I loved myself." Ha123 will get there or she won't, in time to maybe save enough to start to build some new relationship with her husband or not in time. But she's not the first person to stumble around ground zero. And anyhow I am agnostic on saving her relationship with her husband, my interest as a broken soul myself is in trying to equip another broken soul to be less broken going forward.

[BetrayedH]

Good morning Ha123. I am glad you had a good rest.

 

Yes, of course I simplify. But that it because I am trying to get you out of your compartmented thinking to see some of the simple big truths your husband will see very clearly. And again, my advice to you started with the word humility, with the idea of radical humility. Of being really, really humbled and less certain about old certainties about who you were. Trying new perspectives to see what they can teach you because your old ones... well, they got you here where you are, right?

 

Look at it from your husbands point of view. Here is shorter HA123 this morning: "Husband, thoights and behavior are complex. If you could appreciate the nuance and complexity of the interplay of thoughts and behavior, you will come to see as clearly as I do that you are and always were the love of my life despite my actions." You can try it, but again, I don't predict a good outcome.

 

Here's a great article about love being a verb.

 

In Marriage, Love Has To Be A Verb Or It Won't Work

[homealone123]

Here's a great article about love being a verb.

 

In Marriage, Love Has To Be A Verb Or It Won't Work

 

I agree with that. I did not exercise the verb love towards my husband. That is what I meant with the difference between feeling love and being loving. I was not being loving to my husband nor to my kids and that is something I don't understand, how I allowed my self to stop being loving to those who you do feel love for. I am working on that concept with my counselor. Thank you for your input BH.

[anika99]

I'm late to this thread but I just want to agree with the posters who have said that your husband will not be moved by your declarations of loving him while you were cheating and he will not want to hear that.

 

I'm not a betrayed spouse but I know if someone who betrayed and deceived for years told me they loved me throughout, I would consider that love pretty worthless. Who needs love like that? What good is your love when you can hurt and betray me so deeply for years?

 

You say our feelings are who we are and I say that is childish and immature thinking. Children are ruled by their feelings. Our feelings are not who we are. Love is not a feeling and nothing more. We take care of the ones we love, we sacrafice and serve those that we love. Yes we also sometimes hurt the ones we love but not usually for two years straight.

 

I'm not saying that you don't love your husband, a part of you probably does love him, but your love isn't worth anything right now. Your love didn't stop you from destroying your husband so he won't care very much to hear that you love him. Telling him that you love him and loved him the entire time you were cheating almost shows a lack of remorse. It's shows a lack of understanding what love is supposed to be and a lack of empathy for your husband and how those words will affect him right now.

 

If you want to save your marriage then you will have to do so with actions. Get yourself into counselling, read books, find out what your husband needs from you and do those things. Don't smother him with your cheap declarations of love. Learn what love is and put it into practice.

[BetrayedH]

I agree with that. I did not exercise the verb love towards my husband. That is what I meant with the difference between feeling love and being loving. I was not being loving to my husband nor to my kids and that is something I don't understand, how I allowed my self to stop being loving to those who you do feel love for. I am working on that concept with my counselor. Thank you for your input BH.

 

I think you get the difference. I just thought this was a good article on the subject and one that everyone should read.

 

But Owl is right that you're going to need to tread lightly around this subject of "I never stopped loving you." I can guaran-damn-te you that your husband will instantly think of several times that you stopped loving him and will probably shout as much about a half inch from your face. What good does your love do for him if you're bonking the gym instructor?

 

I think what's more important for him to understand is that your affair had nothing to do with him and everything to do with you. I think for many betrayed spouses, there's a tremendous amount of self-blame that occurs. We sit and analyze what we could have possibly done to prevent this from happening. Your H is likely to blame it on his own lack of sexual prowess. He's going to feel that he wasn't good enough, strong enough, or man enough to keep his wife. It's the ultimate rejection.

 

Your job isn't to tell him that you loved him while you were screwing the gym rat. It's to reassure him that he carries no blame in this whatsoever.

[Furious]

Well Furious... I guess you feel inclined to keep helping me with your unsolicited wisdom. I can see the why you chose your nick name in this board...you are indeed an angry person.

 

I do not think my love will save my husband, I don't think I can save my husband at all... he is not broken... he is hurting, I am the one that is broken.

I want to help him to heal and I definitely want to save my marriage but not to the cost to his health or integrity, anyhow if you think my husband will allow that is only because you don't know him, he is hurting but he is strong, he is stronger that me and stronger than anyone that I have ever met. He will make his analysis and decide if he wants to reconcile with me or not and he will do one or the other because he thinks is the best for him and the family.

 

Not agreeing with everything the posters post here... or not taking your advise as wisdom doesn't make me a monster either. Advise is offered not imposed ... if you know what that means.

 

I will listen to all the advise that I get and choose which of it I will take to save my marriage and to help my husband to heal.

 

 

Perfect example of lashing out and still not getting it.

[homealone123]

I think you get the difference. I just thought this was a good article on the subject and one that everyone should read.

 

But Owl is right that you're going to need to tread lightly around this subject of "I never stopped loving you." I can guaran-damn-te you that your husband will instantly think of several times that you stopped loving him and will probably shout as much about a half inch from your face. What good does your love do for him if you're bonking the gym instructor?

 

I think what's more important for him to understand is that your affair had nothing to do with him and everything to do with you. I think for many betrayed spouses, there's a tremendous amount of self-blame that occurs. We sit and analyze what we could have possibly done to prevent this from happening. Your H is likely to blame it on his own lack of sexual prowess. He's going to feel that he wasn't good enough, strong enough, or man enough to keep his wife. It's the ultimate rejection.

 

Your job isn't to tell him that you loved him while you were screwing the gym rat. It's to reassure him that he carries no blame in this whatsoever.

 

Thank you, I will indeed concentrate on that. When I talked with him at home that was already exactly what I told him, that it was all about me, there was nothing that he had done that made me go and cheat, something is deeply broken in my soul and he didn't deserve what I have done.

[irishguy]

The problem with your numbers is your husband wont believe you , what are the odds the one day he followed you he sees you go off with the other guy,when you claim it happened so rarely .The fact that he seen you and the guy act inappropriately wont help his mind movies .I dont know how he didnt loose it when he seen it and have it out with you at the time .A polygraph might be the only way he will believe your number because he has no reason to believe a word you say .

[homealone123]

Perfect example of lashing out and still not getting it.

 

If you want someone to take your words seriously then stop being condescending, talk to me directly, not to other posters about me like if I was a small child and I would not be able to understand.

Get your point across without being cynical and offensive!

Till you change your attitude ...

did you hear that? It is the sound of me ignoring you!

[homealone123]

The problem with your numbers is your husband wont believe you , what are the odds the one day he followed you he sees you go off with the other guy,when you claim it happened so rarely .The fact that he seen you and the guy act inappropriately wont help his mind movies .I dont know how he didnt loose it when he seen it and have it out with you at the time .A polygraph might be the only way he will believe your number because he has no reason to believe a word you say .

 

Yes, I have thought about that... I wanted to say I ran out of luck but probably.... I was lucky that he happened to follow me that exact day and finally this is out.

 

I am completely open to do a polygraph test if he would find that necessary. I am not lying and that may help us both to move forward some difficult trust issues that he will have given the fact that I deceived him for so long. It won't be only my numbers he won't believe there will be many other things he won't believe, if any.

 

I will offer him this tomorrow. The sooner that this gets done the easier that will be answering his questions.

Edited December 9, 2016 by homealone123

[doyathinkso]

If you want someone to take your words seriously then stop being condescending, talk to me directly, not to other posters about me like if I was a small child and I would not be able to understand.

 

Stop sounding and acting like one and he just might.

[Furious]

I don't disagree but almost no one gets it right away. Especially not the people who end up here. If they found this stuff obvious and instinctive they wouldn't be here in the first place.

 

 

 

Yes, it's still the catastrophic failure of empathy. But it is not easy to be able to accept the simple awful truth--with is that "I loved you, but not nearly as much as I loved myself." Ha123 will get there or she won't, in time to maybe save enough to start to build some new relationship with her husband or not in time. But she's not the first person to stumble around ground zero. And anyhow I am agnostic on saving her relationship with her husband, my interest as a broken soul myself is in trying to equip another broken soul to be less broken going forward.

 

Your advice is spot on, she has rejected it a few times and has made a point of setting you straight that she disagrees with you. She has done this with BH too.

 

Good guys keep trying to help, but it's only confirming the subtle manipulation that is obvious when they step out of line in what she does not want to hear.

 

The irony is now the good guys are doing what good guys do.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Home alone...I was going to stay away but I do have something to share that i think might be helpful

 

I completely understand loving your husband and children while having your affair...and I too was bashed for saying it a long time ago. So please consider my perspective.

 

I sincerely loved my husband and children...and I never stopped loving them. HOWEVER....I allowed myself to LOVE ME MORE than I did them. I moved my priorities from loving them the most...to loving me most.

 

As a wife and a mother...we place the needs of our family before our own....and even though during an affair we still take care of their needs....we become focused on our selves instead of focusing on them.

 

If this were not true...we would never have allowed ourselves to let the affair happen.

 

This is why I say...we changed....we became someone we don't know...and someone our spouse does not know.

 

Our spouses now look at us differently...because they never knew this person we became even existed.

 

This is why we are broken. This is why we need to figure out how we allowed this person to emerge and how we prevent it from ever happening again. This is what we will spend the rest of our lives working on.

 

What flaw exists within us that we as devoted wives and mothers became slvts? What happened to our moral fiber that we willingly went to bed with another man....not caring about the consequences....

 

How could we willingly sacrifice our families for a few minutes of "excitement".

 

Yes...we always loved our beautiful families...but we loved ourselves more and were willing to lose everything to make ourselves feel better.

 

I hope this helps.

[homealone123]

Home alone...I was going to stay away but I do have something to share that i think might be helpful

 

I completely understand loving your husband and children while having your affair...and I too was bashed for saying it a long time ago. So please consider my perspective.

 

I sincerely loved my husband and children...and I never stopped loving them. HOWEVER....I allowed myself to LOVE ME MORE than I did them. I moved my priorities from loving them the most...to loving me most.

 

As a wife and a mother...we place the needs of our family before our own....and even though during an affair we still take care of their needs....we become focused on our selves instead of focusing on them.

 

If this were not true...we would never have allowed ourselves to let the affair happen.

 

This is why I say...we changed....we became someone we don't know...and someone our spouse does not know.

 

Our spouses now look at us differently...because they never knew this person we became even existed.

 

This is why we are broken. This is why we need to figure out how we allowed this person to emerge and how we prevent it from ever happening again. This is what we will spend the rest of our lives working on.

 

What flaw exists within us that we as devoted wives and mothers became slvts? What happened to our moral fiber that we willingly went to bed with another man....not caring about the consequences....

 

How could we willingly sacrifice our families for a few minutes of "excitement".

 

Yes...we always loved our beautiful families...but we loved ourselves more and were willing to lose everything to make ourselves feel better.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Yes, I agree with this... I don't know how I got to that point where I loved myself more than I loved them ... it escapes to my understanding.... how could I?

I am scared of looking to myself in the mirror because I am afraid I won't recognize the person that will look me back from there...

[Furious]

If you want someone to take your words seriously then stop being condescending, talk to me directly, not to other posters about me like if I was a small child and I would not be able to understand.

Get your point across without being cynical and offensive!

Till you change your attitude ...

did you hear that? It is the sound of me ignoring you!

 

Not intimidated by you at all and that really irks you.

 

Throughout your thread you have rejected and called out everyone who has been straight with you. It's a fine dance as you continue to control your agenda.

 

You still don't get it.

[BetrayedH]

Your advice is spot on, she has rejected it a few times and has made a point of setting you straight that she disagrees with you. She has done this with BH too.

 

Good guys keep trying to help, but it's only confirming the subtle manipulation that is obvious when they step out of line in what she does not want to hear.

 

The irony is now the good guys are doing what good guys do.

 

Without trying to be insulting towards homealone (and forgive me if it seems like I'm talking about you when you're not here), I would agree that she doesn't yet "get it." But I'd also agree with Owl that no wayward really does this soon after Dday. I think she certainly feels regret for her actions but those of us that have been around know that true remorse is something a bit different.

 

For what it's worth, I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of time with her H after Dday. She's been somewhat sheltered from the minute-to-minute stressors just by virtue of distance. Seeing her H in torment, not sleeping, not eating, not being able to do his job, uncontrollable crying, trying to be strong around the kids...that stuff has a way of creating an understanding and a sense of empathy, and perhaps some real remorse over the devastation that has occurred.

 

But at the same time, I have no problem giving credit for the actions she's taken since Dday. She's gone NC, written her NC letter, drafted a timeline, began IC, sought help here (subjecting herself to some bashing), done her best to take ownership and avoid blameshifting, agreed to leave the house, committed to honesty (albeit with some initial reservation), and been pretty clear that she's prepared to do whatever it takes to make this right. If we want her to demonstrate her remorse with actions rather than words, she's in a better position than most.

 

I suspect that there's a lot yet to unfold and if she's just here to discover the steps to control the damage, that will reveal itself over time. I have a bit more patience than some when it comes to gradual growth and self-discovery. I kinda think it's unrealistic to expect that a wayward goes from cheating one day to true remorse and self-actualization the next. I also respect those posters that operate with the philosophy that sugar-coating is not what is needed. They can take their approach and I will take mine. And we'll see if the combination does its job.

 

I also no longer let myself get too emotionally invested in the outcome. The reality is that my influence over the outcome is pretty minimal; how things end up here is really up to the two people involved. As I've said before, I think the two requirements for a successful reconciliation are (1) A truly remorseful wayward spouse and (2) a truly forgiving betrayed spouse. If that's what occurs here, they'll make it. If not, they won't.

 

Furious, you know I love you to death and I think you're one of the wisest posters here. I hope your approach reaches its intended audience. And for homealone, I hope she's able to hear the message through this conflict.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Yes, I agree with this... I don't know how I got to that point where I loved myself more than I loved them ... it escapes to my understanding.... how could I?

I am scared of looking to myself in the mirror because I am afraid I won't recognize the person that will look me back from there...

 

Sweetheart...I wish I had the answer...

 

Remember i told you very early on...that both of you will forever ask WHY?

 

33 years later...my husband and i still ask why? How could I do this? How did I become a person I don't know?

 

This is why I am telling you...read the MacDonald book...and i am so happy to see you are!!! Become completely and totally transparent....and set your boundaries so that you can NEVER do this again.

 

33 years later...I tell my husband my itinerary for everyday. He has NEVER asked for it. I do it because I want to.

 

I have removed myself from any situation that could be questionable....I don't do girls night out...I don't go to parties without my husband...I don't go to lunch with co workers....

 

I NEVER want to do anything that HE could possibly doubt my motives or my whereabouts.

 

I do this FOR ME....because I now know that I have something within me that broke down...and I have worked 33 years to make sure it never happens again.

 

I don't know why...I will never know why....but I know HOW. I allowed myself to be flattered by another man. I allowed myself to put myself first. I allowed myself to move my boundaries. I allowed myself to turn off my guilt.

 

You see...we changed all of the things we know to be right...because it was exciting. Now what kind of person does that? A broken person....so we will work the rest of our lives "fixing" us.

[harrybrown]

one thing that might help is thinking about your H having his A and how you would feel.

 

One of the results is that he feels like less of a man because you chose the OM over him.

 

You did not come to him for sex, but you kept going to the OM for sex.

 

How does he recover his manhood, his self worth?

 

In his mind movies, the mind movies will be much worse than what really happened. He does not have the two year time span. this just happened to him and destroyed his world. you have all of the puzzle.

He does not have the puzzle. his mind movies have you leaving him for the OM. That his sons are not his sons. that you have done this before. That your sex was as you described// something that he wishes he could experience. (with you in the past, now how can he ever compete) give him all of the puzzle.

 

Hope you get a chance to make new memories with him and convince him that you could never do this to him again ever.

 

Your actions will speak so much louder than words.

 

If he had the A, how would you trust him? what happens the next time you have lust for another man?

 

How will he trust you? good luck with these issues. best to your family in all this situation. what country do you live in?

Edited December 9, 2016 by harrybrown
edit

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me also say...true remorse takes YEARS to achieve. Shame...sorrow...regret....those all come fairly early in this process. But understanding true remorse takes TIME....

 

For those who say she doesn't get it...you are right...she doesn't....and not only that...she won't.

 

She is fresh from an affair that she got CAUGHT in...she is defensive and argumentative and frightened.

 

Being truthful is very important...and truth hurts. But please understand....she is at square one. She has a million more squares to approach.

 

She seems to be receptive...she immediately went to therapy...she is reading the recommended books.

 

She cannot get from square one to square one million in two days. I doubt she even knows what day it is.

 

Think back to how you felt the day after you found out your spouse cheated. You can barely function much less begin to process all of the changes happening.

 

She understands what she has done....but she will not even begin to understand the consequences.....

 

When you are in this moment....you have no concept of "forever changed"...your mind cannot go there. Right now she is in survival mode.

[QuietDan]

We are all sinners and fallen people.

Given to selfish desires.

It is the Human condition.

So, when things get muddy, confusing, when the selfish person starts to whisper.... time to look to fundamental guidelines and definitions to evaluate what might be the best course of action or response.

Time to go back to fundamentals when things are not working.

The following is something I find useful as a reference point to check my own personal actions, thoughts, and behavior. However, I probable do not check in enough with this.

I keep trying to commit it to memory.

Hopefully it might be helpful.

 

"Love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Corinthians 13:4-8 New International Version (NIV)

 

For the Betrayed Spouse, if this is a guiding principle, probable one of the most challenging times in a life to stay true to self, principles, and beliefs.

 

For the Wayward Spouse, maybe there is some hope, guidance, and direction to what went wrong, where, when, why, and how. This may also be a some help in trying to figure out what to do next and how to go about it.

 

It sounds to simple and straight forward, yet is so difficult and challenging to live by.

[Furious]

Without trying to be insulting towards homealone (and forgive me if it seems like I'm talking about you when you're not here), I would agree that she doesn't yet "get it." But I'd also agree with Owl that no wayward really does this soon after Dday. I think she certainly feels regret for her actions but those of us that have been around know that true remorse is something a bit different.

 

For what it's worth, I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of time with her H after Dday. She's been somewhat sheltered from the minute-to-minute stressors just by virtue of distance. Seeing her H in torment, not sleeping, not eating, not being able to do his job, uncontrollable crying, trying to be strong around the kids...that stuff has a way of creating an understanding and a sense of empathy, and perhaps some real remorse over the devastation that has occurred.

 

But at the same time, I have no problem giving credit for the actions she's taken since Dday. She's gone NC, written her NC letter, drafted a timeline, began IC, sought help here (subjecting herself to some bashing), done her best to take ownership and avoid blameshifting, agreed to leave the house, committed to honesty (albeit with some initial reservation), and been pretty clear that she's prepared to do whatever it takes to make this right. If we want her to demonstrate her remorse with actions rather than words, she's in a better position than most.

 

I suspect that there's a lot yet to unfold and if she's just here to discover the steps to control the damage, that will reveal itself over time. I have a bit more patience than some when it comes to gradual growth and self-discovery. I kinda think it's unrealistic to expect that a wayward goes from cheating one day to true remorse and self-actualization the next. I also respect those posters that operate with the philosophy that sugar-coating is not what is needed. They can take their approach and I will take mine. And we'll see if the combination does its job.

 

I also no longer let myself get too emotionally invested in the outcome. The reality is that my influence over the outcome is pretty minimal; how things end up here is really up to the two people involved. As I've said before, I think the two requirements for a successful reconciliation are (1) A truly remorseful wayward spouse and (2) a truly forgiving betrayed spouse. If that's what occurs here, they'll make it. If not, they won't.

 

Furious, you know I love you to death and I think you're one of the wisest posters here. I hope your approach reaches its intended audience. And for homealone, I hope she's able to hear the message through this conflict.

 

 

BH

 

I admire you so much. We've been here for awhile and I remember your early days when you argued against those who were tough on you and you defended your insistence to reconcile with your wife.

 

Our styles are different but our hearts are in the right place.

 

I actually do hope the OP successfully saves her marriage and family.

[GoldenR]

Anytime I was told that the A had nothing to do with me, I took offense. Bc every single time they held hands, touched, kissed, had sex, smiled at each other, texted, talked, etc....every single one of those instances was a great big flip of the middle finger directed at me. It's not like they thought what they were doing was ok. They knew it was wrong...the ultimate betrayal. So yes, It had everything to do with me.

Edited December 9, 2016 by GoldenR

[katielee]

I think it takes years for the WS to understand the depth of the betrayal. I also think the same is true for the BS. Expect it to be very bumpy. For both of you. It will take him a couple years to figure out if he can live with it while still married to you, IMO. He is in shock. You won't know how badly you hurt him until you see him month after month deal with this. His personality will be changed. He will have nightmares, PTSD, etc. And you will come to realize that YOU caused this in him. And that will change you.

 

I still get anger from my husband and it's been nearly 7 years. And I slept with OM once.

 

This will be a very long road for you both.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Anytime I was told that the A had nothing to do with me, I took offense. Bc every single time they held hands, touched, kissed, had sex, smiled at each other, texted, talked, etc....every single one of those instances was a great big flip off the middle finger directed at me. It's not like they thought what they were doing was ok. They know it was wrong...the ultimate betrayal. So yes, It had everything to do with me.

 

you are right....and i remember saying that very thing to my husband. It wasn't about you...it was about me. If you really LISTEN to that statement...it is a HUGE clue to the mindset of the cheater.

 

Of course it has to do with the betrayed spouse...it has EVERYTHING to do with the betrayed spouse.

 

But in the mind of the cheater...it was all about the cheater....this is why I say a person emerges that is not recognizable...especially if the cheater has been a devoted spouse. This is why we are broken.

[fenix]

Anytime I was told that the A had nothing to do with me, I took offense. Bc every single time they held hands, touched, kissed, had sex, smiled at each other, texted, talked, etc....every single one of those instances was a great big flip of the middle finger directed at me. It's not like they thought what they were doing was ok. They know it was wrong...the ultimate betrayal. So yes, It had everything to do with me.

 

 

I think what BH means is that is not the husband's fault that OP cheated.

That is the message that OP needs to get across.

I am also more inclined to cut OP some slack, she has wronged her husband and we all can feel empathy for him but the one asking for help here is OP and not her husband.