Separating assets during divorce

[New_girl]

My STBXH and I have been separated just over a year. We are at the point of writing up a separation agreement and dividing our assets and debts after 11 years of marriage.

 

He is of the opinion that the law is stacked against him, so doing what the law says is unfair to him (we live in an equitable distribution state). He is getting the marital home since he wouldn't move out and I had to in order to get a divorce (state law requires 1 year living apart).

 

My view is follow the law. We are doing 50/50 custody. He's paying a small amount in child support (less than $200 per child per month for 2 kids). I am not asking for alimony.

 

How can I get him to be reasonable? He thinks lawyers are out to get him. I did get a lawyer to write up the separation agreement and give general legal advice, but I do not want to "take him to the cleaners." Not litigating; just getting a document created that we will both eventually sign that divides up things, defines custody formally, etc.

[PegNosePete]

My view is follow the law.

Mine too.

 

How can I get him to be reasonable?

The short answer is basically: you can't.

 

You can only tell him that either he accepts your reasonable requests and compromises, or you will take him to court. Since he will come off worse if it goes to court, if he has 2 brain cells to rub together, then he will see reason. If not then you'll need to follow through with your threat. Likely he will back down when he starts getting court letters. It's never too late to make an amicable agreement and cancel the court process. But if he doesn't then just carry on with it, since you will get a better outcome that way.

 

If you're only asking for what you consider to be reasonable then you're not "taking him to the cleaners". You are asking for what you believe is a fair distribution.

[New_girl]

Mine too.

 

 

The short answer is basically: you can't.

 

You can only tell him that either he accepts your reasonable requests and compromises, or you will take him to court. Since he will come off worse if it goes to court, if he has 2 brain cells to rub together, then he will see reason. If not then you'll need to follow through with your threat. Likely he will back down when he starts getting court letters. It's never too late to make an amicable agreement and cancel the court process. But if he doesn't then just carry on with it, since you will get a better outcome that way.

 

If you're only asking for what you consider to be reasonable then you're not "taking him to the cleaners". You are asking for what you believe is a fair distribution.

 

Yeah, we have had that discussion, too, about if we can't agree then we will have to get lawyers involved and that will cost us both dearly and would frankly be stupid.

 

I know I can't change him. Just ready for this to be over so I can move on with my life.

[DKT3]

Mine too.

 

 

The short answer is basically: you can't.

 

You can only tell him that either he accepts your reasonable requests and compromises, or you will take him to court. Since he will come off worse if it goes to court, if he has 2 brain cells to rub together, then he will see reason. If not then you'll need to follow through with your threat. Likely he will back down when he starts getting court letters. It's never too late to make an amicable agreement and cancel the court process. But if he doesn't then just carry on with it, since you will get a better outcome that way.

 

If you're only asking for what you consider to be reasonable then you're not "taking him to the cleaners". You are asking for what you believe is a fair distribution.

 

Yes but that assuming that her view is the correct one. Sometimes just because one thinks it's fair doesn't mean it's fair to the other person. Her saying I don't want to take him to the cleaners could have a different meaning for him.

 

People are rarely fair in these situations, and tend to look to gain control of kids, property, assets while pushing debt.

 

Long made short, clearly he doesn't see it as fair.

[New_girl]

Yes but that assuming that her view is the correct one. Sometimes just because one thinks it's fair doesn't mean it's fair to the other person. Her saying I don't want to take him to the cleaners could have a different meaning for him.

 

People are rarely fair in these situations, and tend to look to gain control of kids, property, assets while pushing debt.

 

Long made short, clearly he doesn't see it as fair.

 

Again, I'm not looking to gain control of the kids or get any property from him. Heck, when I moved out all I took that was marital property was a small sofa, and end table, and a desk. Seriously! Everything else was hand-me-downs from my family or I bought after I moved. Kitchen table, TV, kids furniture, mattresses, etc., I bought with my own money after I left.

 

I'm trying to follow the laws in my state, period. What the law says, I will do. And I've already given him the house, 50/50 share with the kids, and I worked throughout the marriage and contributed financially nearly the same as he did.

[mikeylo]

Give him a reasonable time otherwise go to the lawyer. You can either keep trying to negotiate with him for a couple of years or spend on a good lawyer and be done.

[New_girl]

Give him a reasonable time otherwise go to the lawyer. You can either keep trying to negotiate with him for a couple of years or spend on a good lawyer and be done.

 

Well, we've been separated for a year. I think that's enough time already. He's seeing a lawyer today because he doesn't believe that my lawyer will be fair to him. I told him that a lawyer's job is to represent their client, but that I'm not trying to "get him." He actually wanted me to try to get he lawyer to draft up an agreement that he would review and then accept or reject without him having a lawyer. I told him that was a bad idea.

 

My lawyer told me I was entitled to alimony; I refused. I did tell my STBXH that my lawyer told me this and he decided that this lawyer is out to get him because he advised me of the law.

 

Sigh...

[mikeylo]

Duh ! What he proposed was right.You should have gotten your lawyer to draft agreement and be done. Since you refused and he got one , you can do nothing but sit and wait

[New_girl]

Something just occurred to me, and that is he is not happy about our divorce and needs to find an outlet for his anger/sadness/whatever. He is trying to find a reason to be mad, to think things will be unfair, so he has somewhere to direct his emotions. He's not good at processing them directly; he always has some alternate target to release how he feels.

 

Light bulb!

[New_girl]

Duh ! What he proposed was right.You should have gotten your lawyer to draft agreement and be done. Since you refused and he got one , you can do nothing but sit and wait

 

I did exactly what he asked me to do. I went to the lawyer and told him what I wanted: to follow our state law.

 

When I told him what the lawyers answers were, he decided the lawyer was lying, that he had googled and thought this guy wasn't following the law. Basically he would have held me hostage, continually renegotiating the separation agreement to his terms and refusing to sign until I'd basically signed away everything that was legally mine.

 

Again, he's getting the house. What person in their right mind would let their spouse get the house AND sign a separation agreement that gives them less than what they are allowed under their state law. That's just dumb.

[loveboid]

Do you have a divorce mediator in your area? In my area a lot of divorce lawyers are also mediators. You can hire them as your lawyer or your mediator but not both.

 

A mediator is impartial. Each party can get their own lawyer to review what the mediator draws up.

[New_girl]

Do you have a divorce mediator in your area? In my area a lot of divorce lawyers are also mediators. You can hire them as your lawyer or your mediator but not both.

 

A mediator is impartial. Each party can get their own lawyer to review what the mediator draws up.

 

Looked into that a few years back. Mediation costs about $3k to start. That's before each of us hires our own attorney, which would be even more. My state is awful about divorce costs. Most attorneys say $8k to $10K is their start point.

 

I will say this: Never again will I marry. Ever. Dumbest thing I ever did.

[DKT3]

Every once in a while we get a poster who is extremely controlling and attempts to hide behind"fair play"

 

Having read several of your posts today you really one off as controlling, but not wanting to. From what I get, you tried to control your husband and the marriage, he didn't go along niw your trying to control the divorce. Why do I conclude this?

 

First you say you left because he wouldn't and you resent him for it. Ok, then you say you have 50/50 with the kids, but that doesn't ring true because later you say what kind of person doesn't allow a mother to raise her kids in the home she created. 50/50 would mean half with you half with him, so why does it matter who stayed in the home if that were true since the kids will be raised there 50% of the time?

 

The divorce, you claim to want to go by the law, but really you don't. If you truly did then you would just stop fighting and let the law sort it out. No what you want is control. You want him to agree with your terms not what the law states. Controlling people always see thier views as fair, no matter how unreasonable.

 

You want it over and to move on? Go stand in front of the judge and let him sort it out....not likely since control is what you're really after.

[New_girl]

Every once in a while we get a poster who is extremely controlling and attempts to hide behind"fair play"

 

Having read several of your posts today you really one off as controlling, but not wanting to. From what I get, you tried to control your husband and the marriage, he didn't go along niw your trying to control the divorce. Why do I conclude this?

 

First you say you left because he wouldn't and you resent him for it. Ok, then you say you have 50/50 with the kids, but that doesn't ring true because later you say what kind of person doesn't allow a mother to raise her kids in the home she created. 50/50 would mean half with you half with him, so why does it matter who stayed in the home if that were true since the kids will be raised there 50% of the time?

 

The divorce, you claim to want to go by the law, but really you don't. If you truly did then you would just stop fighting and let the law sort it out. No what you want is control. You want him to agree with your terms not what the law states. Controlling people always see thier views as fair, no matter how unreasonable.

 

You want it over and to move on? Go stand in front of the judge and let him sort it out....not likely since control is what you're really after.

 

I proposed that, too. We may well do that in the end.

 

And any woman will tell you that she is the one that builds the home. I'm the one that did the crafts and made the cookies at the kitchen table. I'm the one who painted their rooms their favorite color or organized at home birthday parties with activities and decorations and such. I made their house a home for their entire lives. I now have to recreate a home for them in an apartment. Not simple to do. They consider their home to be the one they've always known. Does that help you understand why moving out of the home is not about the asset, but about what it means for me and for the kids?

[New_girl]

Every once in a while we get a poster who is extremely controlling and attempts to hide behind"fair play"

 

Having read several of your posts today you really one off as controlling, but not wanting to. From what I get, you tried to control your husband and the marriage, he didn't go along niw your trying to control the divorce. Why do I conclude this?

 

First you say you left because he wouldn't and you resent him for it. Ok, then you say you have 50/50 with the kids, but that doesn't ring true because later you say what kind of person doesn't allow a mother to raise her kids in the home she created. 50/50 would mean half with you half with him, so why does it matter who stayed in the home if that were true since the kids will be raised there 50% of the time?

 

The divorce, you claim to want to go by the law, but really you don't. If you truly did then you would just stop fighting and let the law sort it out. No what you want is control. You want him to agree with your terms not what the law states. Controlling people always see thier views as fair, no matter how unreasonable.

 

You want it over and to move on? Go stand in front of the judge and let him sort it out....not likely since control is what you're really after.

 

I will also say that every post I've read on here tells the man not to move out and to fight, fight, fight. Here I am, a woman, who is trying to be fair and not fight (just accept 50/50) and I'm not being given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Are the reactions here about what I've written about my situation, or something else?

[Miss Peach]

I would have loved your husband's deal. I had to pay a large cs bill and alimony with 50/50 custody plus I didn't get the house (which legally the equity was my separate property).

 

He's just need to IMO to get over it. You can't change this for him. He will either come to terms or he won't.

 

If it's any help, many men with kids find themselves dating women with kids. When I run into men who talk about being screwed over and such I run away. I know that's not the case and that everything in my area is to equalize everything.

[eightytwenty]

When I got my divorce I didn't want a fight...

 

 

Told my ex we need to talk about this. Spilt, give, let someone have, whatever. Everything needs to be put down so we don't have to have a fight. If he makes me fight, I will get a lawyer and I will go to the cleaners with him...

 

 

 

 

He sort of listened. He agreed with all terms, and signed the waiver. Don't ride it through, if he wants to make it hard, get hard right back.

[New_girl]

I would have loved your husband's deal. I had to pay a large cs bill and alimony with 50/50 custody plus I didn't get the house (which legally the equity was my separate property).

 

He's just need to IMO to get over it. You can't change this for him. He will either come to terms or he won't.

 

If it's any help, many men with kids find themselves dating women with kids. When I run into men who talk about being screwed over and such I run away. I know that's not the case and that everything in my area is to equalize everything.

 

Sounds like you ended up in a situation much like mine, except you were the one paying child support? And you lost the house? I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you are doing ok.

[DKT3]

I proposed that, too. We may well do that in the end.

 

And any woman will tell you that she is the one that builds the home. I'm the one that did the crafts and made the cookies at the kitchen table. I'm the one who painted their rooms their favorite color or organized at home birthday parties with activities and decorations and such. I made their house a home for their entire lives. I now have to recreate a home for them in an apartment. Not simple to do. They consider their home to be the one they've always known. Does that help you understand why moving out of the home is not about the asset, but about what it means for me and for the kids?

 

It seems you've totally missed my point. The kids will still be at home in the home and still be in one being recreated no matter which parent is In which place.

 

My point is step back, take the best veiw of this from his pov. I'm guessing he simply doesn't see you as being fair, maybe long standing from the relationship..

 

Fight? For what, your being fair remember

[Miss Peach]

I did exactly what he asked me to do. I went to the lawyer and told him what I wanted: to follow our state law.

 

When I told him what the lawyers answers were, he decided the lawyer was lying, that he had googled and thought this guy wasn't following the law. Basically he would have held me hostage, continually renegotiating the separation agreement to his terms and refusing to sign until I'd basically signed away everything that was legally mine.

 

Again, he's getting the house. What person in their right mind would let their spouse get the house AND sign a separation agreement that gives them less than what they are allowed under their state law. That's just dumb.

 

This was my experience. XH who wanted to keep up with the renegotiation it to the point it was way better than court for him.

 

In my case I gave it to him for something else I wanted - to get it done and to get some other terms changed to my favor for later.

[eightytwenty]

Sounds like you ended up in a situation much like mine, except you were the one paying child support? And you lost the house? I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you are doing ok.

 

 

No kids. No house. Just a bunch of expensive vehicles, tools, horses, and trailers. The property we lived on was given to me.

He tried to fight for a few things, and tried to get some of my inheritance, didn't work. He walked away with his debt, tools, and a mustang Cobra, he couldn't pay for anything since he didn't have a job for 2 years living off of me..

 

 

Now I have a 9 month old son, a working amazing fiancé and looking to buy a new house together. It sucks to fight, but if he's going to be like that, might as well get what you can, or make it to where you get everything so he'll then work something out.

[Mrin]

I assume you've already done this but the best way to go about it is to make a spreadsheet.

 

List all of your joint and marital assets. The house (equity = fair market value - current mortgage amount). FMV can be determined by getting an appraisal. 401K's. Investment and savings accounts. Checking accounts. Cars (just use Kelly Blue Book for value - car loan remaining balance). Furnishings (don't get to crazy on the itemization of this - just come up with a number for the stuff you're getting and the stuff he's getting).

 

Once you finalize the assets, do the same for joint debts (credit cards, taxes etc). Hopefully you haven't been accruing joint debt while you've been separated. Car loans and mortgage is already factored into their value so no need to do that here. Just credit cards and taxes etc...

 

Once you're all done with that, divide the asset number by two, figure out how to divide up the debt equitably (doesn't have to be equal - see below) and then start solving by picking things off the list. Here let me give you an example....

 

 

Total Joint Assets: $500,000

Total Joint Debt: $100,000

 

 

Debt Distribution

Husband Takes: $40,000

Wife Takes: $60,000

------------------------

Debt adjustment +$10,000 to wife

 

Asset Allocation Due Husband: $240,000

Asset Allocation Due Wife: $260,000

 

Then you just start settling up.... For example

 

Husband takes house: let's assume that's worth $200,000

Husband takes $40,000 of other property/assets

 

Wife gets everything else: $260,000

 

Now, this gets sticky if the house equity is worth more than $240,000. In that case Husband has to pay Wife the difference to make her "whole". If he can't pay at the time of divorce, then only equitable option is to sell the house and divide up the proceeds.

 

Although it sounds all mathy, it is really an inexact science. A lot of the numbers are subjective and guesses. But in the end, this is what you're working for - an equal division of the joint assets and debts.

 

Usually the issue is that one of the parties wants an asset that is worth more than 50% (or their share) of the allocation. Do you have that here?

 

A few other things:

 

1. If both parties feel equally screwed, you probably did it right

2. Everything gets a number. If you can't agree on a number then find a third party to put a number on it

3. Whoever cares more, wins

 

Hope this helps!

[New_girl]

It seems you've totally missed my point. The kids will still be at home in the home and still be in one being recreated no matter which parent is In which place.

 

My point is step back, take the best veiw of this from his pov. I'm guessing he simply doesn't see you as being fair, maybe long standing from the relationship..

 

Fight? For what, your being fair remember

 

Regarding his POV, yes, I am looking at that, too. For example, he is older than me and will retire sooner, so I've told him that once we have a list of all the assets and debts that are marital or divisible and get to a bottom line number, then we should consider that he will retire many years before me and will need more retirement $ coming out of the divorce settlement.

 

Regarding "fight" what I mean is that I should ask for what is fair for me. He will do the same. In the end, neither of us wants to hurt the other. So maybe "fight for what is fair" isn't the way to phrase it. But I will stand up for myself. I worked very hard every day of my marriage and I won't just walk away shortchanged.

 

We will see what his attorney says. Fingers crossed we can get through this without it escalating. Neither of us wants that.

[Mrin]

Sorry, I had a math error on my debt adjustment. Use these numbers!

 

I assume you've already done this but the best way to go about it is to make a spreadsheet.

 

List all of your joint and marital assets. The house (equity = fair market value - current mortgage amount). FMV can be determined by getting an appraisal. 401K's. Investment and savings accounts. Checking accounts. Cars (just use Kelly Blue Book for value - car loan remaining balance). Furnishings (don't get to crazy on the itemization of this - just come up with a number for the stuff you're getting and the stuff he's getting).

 

Once you finalize the assets, do the same for joint debts (credit cards, taxes etc). Hopefully you haven't been accruing joint debt while you've been separated. Car loans and mortgage is already factored into their value so no need to do that here. Just credit cards and taxes etc...

 

Once you're all done with that, divide the asset number by two, figure out how to divide up the debt equitably (doesn't have to be equal - see below) and then start solving by picking things off the list. Here let me give you an example....

 

 

Total Joint Assets: $500,000

Total Joint Debt: $100,000

 

 

Debt Distribution

Husband Takes: $40,000

Wife Takes: $60,000

------------------------

Debt adjustment +$10,000 to wife

 

Asset Allocation Due Husband: $245,000

Asset Allocation Due Wife: $255,000

 

Then you just start settling up.... For example

 

Husband takes house: let's assume that's worth $200,000

Husband takes $45,000 of other property/assets

 

Wife gets everything else: $255,000

 

Now, this gets sticky if the house equity is worth more than $245,000. In that case Husband has to pay Wife the difference to make her "whole". If he can't pay at the time of divorce, then only equitable option is to sell the house and divide up the proceeds.

 

Although it sounds all mathy, it is really an inexact science. A lot of the numbers are subjective and guesses. But in the end, this is what you're working for - an equal division of the joint assets and debts.

 

Usually the issue is that one of the parties wants an asset that is worth more than 50% (or their share) of the allocation. Do you have that here?

 

A few other things:

 

1. If both parties feel equally screwed, you probably did it right

2. Everything gets a number. If you can't agree on a number then find a third party to put a number on it

3. Whoever cares more, wins

[Mrin]

Regarding his POV, yes, I am looking at that, too. For example, he is older than me and will retire sooner, so I've told him that once we have a list of all the assets and debts that are marital or divisible and get to a bottom line number, then we should consider that he will retire many years before me and will need more retirement $ coming out of the divorce settlement.

 

While that is noble of you to do, I'd advise against that. I'd just go 50/50 and it is up to him to make it work. As soon as you start factoring in subjectivity like that, you run into all sorts of valuation problems.