My ex only knows love and hate.

[CryForNoOne]

We have a 2 year old daughter, had been together for 3 years and broke up in April. The relationship has always been rocky. She's bipolar and I never learned how to cope with it. I started hiding things from her to avoid blow ups, which created trust issues that we now cannot overcome. We both love each other but concluded it just won't work. She moved up to the mountains about 2 hours away from me - partly to be with her mom but mostly to get far away from me. She immediately entered a relationship with a guy she met up there, they moved in together, but broke up in October. I dated casually for a while but decided to take a break from women completely for about 3 months. From May-October she treated me life absolute sh!!te. Basically being the classic vindictive ex-spouse and trying to make my life miserable in every way possible. I won't get into the details but it was bordering on absurd.

 

Suddenly after getting dumped by her rebound in early October she got really nice - shocking huh?? Shortly after that, I stayed at her house while visiting our daughter, and we slept in the same bed (no other practical option). She put her arm around me in the middle of the night but I did not escalate things. In the past when we fought, she'd always run away, make some overture like that, and it would always result in makeup sex and being all lovey dovey again. Not this time. We've been more or less friendly and cordial since. Last week she randomly texted me out out of the blue that she was thinking of moving back "home" and asked where we would stay. I neither replied yes or no but was floored just by the inquiry. I just started seeing someone, so as always, her timing is impeccably bad. I've also been actively shopping for a house up the mountains so I can spend more time with my daughter and not have to stay with mom. Just that probing question threw all my plans out the window as there is NO WAY now I'm going to get stuck with a house I'd never buy in a million years unless my daughter lived up there with her.

 

So now this past weekend I went up and stayed at her place again. For whatever reason she was back into royal b!tch mode the entire time I was there. We slept in the same bed again but no romantic advances. The next morning I asked her why she mentioned moving back "home" and she just blew up and I just drove off. Now last night she texted me "What's her name?" to which I answered and now she is ignoring me again.

 

WTF can I do? Above and beyond the court decided child support, I also gave her a car that I'm making payments on, pay her insurance plus a ton of extra stuff. If I take away the car and cut her off, they'd be living in poverty AND it would be almost impossible for me to see my daughter. But the situation we're in forces me to interact with her way more than I want. She'll occasionally dangle the reconcile line, but the other 99% of the time, it's absolutely miserable having anything to do with her...

[Pete2304]

On first reading I couldn't figure out why you haven't had any replies yet. So I read your post again. Then I decided I wasn't going to reply either because I couldn't with any honesty say what you want to hear.

 

I won't go into it but my wife dangled that 1% carrot again and again. Truth of the matter is you will keep putting yourself through this until the penny drops. Just trust me on this though, eventually it does. It might take 3,4, 34 times of you having your heart broken by her but at some point you will decide enough is enough and not because friends, family or people on here are telling you to but because you will decide.

 

You love your daughter, for a long time when you go and see your daughter it's going to hurt picking her up and dropping her off but there will come a day when you're out with your daughter having fun, spending quality time together and the thought will cross your mind that actually, it's better this way.

 

Good luck mate

[Downtown]

Cry, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between loving and hating you, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I further caution that BPD is not something that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

She's bipolar and I never learned how to cope with it.

Cry, perhaps she does exhibit bipolar behavior. That is not what you seem to be describing here, however. Whereas bipolar mood changes typically take two weeks to develop, BPD mood changes usually occur in less than a minute because they are triggered by minor things you say or do -- like the flareups and temper tantrums you describe.

 

Another difference is that these two disorders are not on the same spectrum. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between mania at one end of the spectrum and depression at the other end, a BPDer swings between love and hate. That is, a BPDer moves along a spectrum having love feelings at one end and hate at the other -- which seems consistent with your thread title: My ex only knows love and hate.

 

Importantly, even if your exGF does have bipolar, there is a good chance she also exhibits BPD. Of those people exhibiting strong bipolar-1 behaviors in the past year, 50% of them also suffer from full-blown BPD. (Of the folks exhibiting bipolar-2, 40% of them also exhibit full-blown BPD.) Moreover, therapists have difficulty distinguishing between these two disorders in a 50-minute meeting held every week or two because it may take them two years to witness the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long. It therefore is common for BPD to be misdiagnosed as "bipolar."

 

I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar often can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it. I therefore suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for both disorders.

 

WTF can I do?

Given that BPD seems to be passed on largely through genetics and childhood environment, it is important to know what disorders might be passed on to your young daughter. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you daughter may be dealing with when she is in the custody of your exGF.

 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you learn how to spot the red flags for both disorders. An easy place to start reading is my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. Learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation. Take care, Cry.

[Pete2304]

Cry, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between loving and hating you, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I further caution that BPD is not something that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

Cry, perhaps she does exhibit bipolar behavior. That is not what you seem to be describing here, however. Whereas bipolar mood changes typically take two weeks to develop, BPD mood changes usually occur in less than a minute because they are triggered by minor things you say or do -- like the flareups and temper tantrums you describe.

 

Another difference is that these two disorders are not on the same spectrum. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between mania at one end of the spectrum and depression at the other end, a BPDer swings between love and hate. That is, a BPDer moves along a spectrum having love feelings at one end and hate at the other -- which seems consistent with your thread title: My ex only knows love and hate.

 

Importantly, even if your exGF does have bipolar, there is a good chance she also exhibits BPD. Of those people exhibiting strong bipolar-1 behaviors in the past year, 50% of them also suffer from full-blown BPD. (Of the folks exhibiting bipolar-2, 40% of them also exhibit full-blown BPD.) Moreover, therapists have difficulty distinguishing between these two disorders in a 50-minute meeting held every week or two because it may take them two years to witness the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long. It therefore is common for BPD to be misdiagnosed as "bipolar."

 

I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar often can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it. I therefore suggest that you protect yourself by learning how to spot the warning signs for both disorders.

 

Given that BPD seems to be passed on largely through genetics and childhood environment, it is important to know what disorders might be passed on to your young daughter. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you daughter may be dealing with when she is in the custody of your exGF.

 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you learn how to spot the red flags for both disorders. An easy place to start reading is my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. Learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation. Take care, Cry.

 

I ask this because I genuinely don't know, not because I'm being flippant but......during a really hard break up does it tend to be the case that most people to an extent have a tendency to exhibit some of the symptoms of BPD. I know personally during my marriage breakdown I've been irrational, gone from being over the moon to wanting the ground to swallow me up and then back again the day after if breadcrumbs happen. Where is the distinction between (t times irrationally) dealing with the anguish of a tough break up of a long term relationship and there actually being a mental health problem that goes beyond that?

[Downtown]

During a really hard break up, does it tend to be the case that most people to an extent have a tendency to exhibit some of the symptoms of BPD?

Yes, Pete. Indeed, all adults exhibit many BPD symptoms nearly every day. Moreover, whenever we experience intense feelings, those feelings color and distort our perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why, by the time we enter high school, nearly all of us try hard to keep our mouths shut -- and our fingers off the keys -- whenever we are very angry.

 

And this is why, when we're infatuated, we try hard to delay buying the ring for a year or two. We know that our rational judgment flies out the window when we experience intense feelings. BPDers, then, differ from the rest of us essentially by degree -- not by kind. Because they lack the ability to regulate emotions, they experience intense feelings far more frequently than the rest of us. And, because the lack impulse control, they find it very difficult to keep their mouths shut and their fingers off the keys when angry.

 

I know personally during my marriage breakdown I've been irrational, gone from being over the moon to wanting the ground to swallow me up and then back again the day after if breadcrumbs happen.

Pete, the most common cause of BPD behaviors is not the disorder itself but, rather, childhood. We all behave like BPDers 24/7 during early childhood. And a large share of us start behaving that way again for several years during puberty. This is why psychologists generally are reluctant to diagnose the BPD disorder in any clients younger than 18.

 

Even during adulthood, the most common cause of BPD symptoms is not the disorder itself. Rather, it is a strong hormone change -- as occurs, e.g., during pregnancy, postpartum, PMS, or perimenopause (or any other life event beginning with the letter "P," LOL). The second most common cause is drug abuse. This is why psychologists are reluctant to diagnose BPD until they are first able to rule out a strong hormone change and drug abuse.

 

Where is the distinction between... dealing with the anguish of a tough break up of a long term relationship and there actually being a mental health problem that goes beyond that?

Good question. In adults, the flareups of strong BPD traits caused by hormones and drug abuse are temporary. The strong BPD behaviors will subside as soon as hormones return to normal and the drug abuse is stopped. In contrast, the BPD symptoms arising from the disorder itself are persistent because the emotional damage typically occurred before age five and starts showing itself strongly during the early to mid teens.