Will I ever be his #1?

[Satu]

I don't know id I've already posted this poem on this thread, but here it is anyway.

 

 

The fist clenched round my heart

loosens a little, and I gasp

brightness; but it tightens

again. When have I ever not loved

the pain of love? But this has moved

 

past love to mania. This has the strong

clench of the madman, this is

gripping the ledge of unreason, before

plunging howling into the abyss.

 

Hold hard then, heart.

This way at least you live.

 

 

- Derek Walcott, "The Fist."

[Satu]

The final truth of all this, is that none of it is about him.

 

Its all about you, OP.

 

Your thoughts, your feelings, your choices.

 

You get what you choose.

 

 

I am doing it

 

the it I am doing is

 

the I that is doing it

 

the I that is doing it is

 

the it I am doing

 

it is doing the I that am doing it

 

I am being done by the it I am doing

 

it is doing it

 

 

 

One is afraid of

 

the self that is afraid of

 

the self that is afraid of

 

the self that is afraid

 

One may perhaps speak of reflections

 

- RD Laing, "Knots."

 

 

Take care.

[aileD]

How many think that's the best thing for me to do?

 

I've always said, from day one, that's his job. I never wanted to have to confront her.

 

I don't know. What do you guys think?

 

I'm a BS and I'm usually against this. Most OW want to tell the wife after the Mm ends the affair and they get dumped and are feeling bad. They want to hurt the MM like they got hurt, and part of them hopes the wife will kick him out and he'll end up with her. Or they say they "feel like they have to do the right thing". Which means nothing because they didn't tell the wife when they were sneaking around with her husband so the moral argument is moot. Plus I feel that if you're already out of it, and doing NC it's not healthy to bring it back into your life

 

But you've ended it and he won't stay away. You are tying to do the right thing and he's persisting. He won't leave you alone. You are trying to extricate yourself.

 

Give it some time, and if he does leave you alone then ...all set. But if he doesn't then telling his wife is the way to go.

 

Don't be fooled though. She may well kick him out of the house and he will come running to you. DO NOT ALLOW IT. This always happens. BW are shocked and they react and need space to process. Then BS and MM usually go through a "trying to make our marriage work" process and marriage counseling.

 

Don't go getting all excited he moved out and wants in with you. It happened to many girls here and my Hs OW too. They move in for a few weeks then go back to the wife.

 

 

He may well get divorced but he needs to go thru the process of ending his marriage and see it through fully before you allow him anything. He can't have cake. And most couples try reconciliation after d day.

 

Divorced. Ink dry. Apartment of HIS OWN. Custody arrangement. Time. THEN if he wants to date you as a single man....go ahead (but you already know he's a cheater). But wouldn't you feel better as a person knowing your relationship started out right? Do you really want to build a relationship while burning another To ashes? No. Ending s marriage and a life together is a process. If he's going to do it, he needs to go through that process on his own for him to have closure too. And closure for the wife. True closure. Without a 3rd party involved

 

Many others can give advice about how to tell the BW. But mostly it's gently with little details but the offer to tell her more if she wants. I would wait and see first. If he contacts you again--threaten to tell the wife. Then if he does it again, tell.

 

Oh. One more thing. Telling the wife also has a way of bringing out the truth of his character. He is likely to paint you as the aggressor, crazy, lying or the W word to save his marriage. He might spew venom at you. Sometimes that's all the wake up call an OW needs to break the magical bubble of sunshine around MM.

 

Good luck. I hope he stays away so to dont have to deal with this and can heal

Edited December 17, 2016 by aileD

[Timshel]

I'm a BS and I'm usually against this. Most OW want to tell the wife after the Mm ends the affair and they get dumped and are feeling bad. They want to hurt the MM like they got hurt, and part of them hopes the wife will kick him out and he'll end up with her. Or they say they "feel like they have to do the right thing". Which means nothing because they didn't tell the wife when they were sneaking around with her husband so the moral argument is moot. Plus I feel that if you're already out of it, and doing NC it's not healthy to bring it back into your life

 

But you've ended it and he won't stay away. You are tying to do the right thing and he's persisting. He won't leave you alone. You are trying to extricate yourself.

 

Give it some time, and if he does leave you alone then ...all set. But if he doesn't then telling his wife is the way to go.

 

Don't be fooled though. She may well kick him out of the house and he will come running to you. DO NOT ALLOW IT. This always happens. BW are shocked and they react and need space to process. Then BS and MM usually go through a "trying to make our marriage work" process and marriage counseling.

 

Don't go getting all excited he moved out and wants in with you. It happened to many girls here and my Hs OW too. They move in for a few weeks then go back to the wife.

 

He may well get divorced but he needs to go thru the process of ending his marriage and see it through fully before you allow him anything. He can't have cake. And most couples try reconciliation after d day.

 

Divorced. Ink dry. Apartment of HIS OWN. Custody arrangement. Time. THEN if he wants to date you as a single man....go ahead (but youbalready know he's a cheater).

 

Many others can give advice about how to tell the BW. But mostly it's gently with little details but the offer to tell her more if she wants.

 

Good luck. I hope he stays away so to dont have to deal with this and can heal

 

AileD, good advice. She is not there though. Trying does not count. It's a start but trying to do something is entirely different than doing it.

Also, by saying that she has tried but failed because he persisted/intervened is similar to saying to OP that she is helpless to make her own choice unless he chooses it also....for her.

 

I know that you did not mean it that way aile.

[aileD]

AileD, good advice. She is not there though. Trying does not count. It's a start but trying to do something is entirely different than doing it.

Also, by saying that she has tried but failed because he persisted/intervened is similar to saying to OP that she is helpless to make her own choice unless he chooses it also....for her.

 

I know that you did not mean it that way aile.

 

She had a moment of weakness she did not initiate. He did. She blocked and was staying away. Her heart may not have been all in it, but that's the nature of ridding yourself of addiction. It's nothing but willpower in the beginning. Staying away from places to get your drug. Because you are weak if it's in your presence.

 

You fake it till you make it. Do the actions and the feelings will catch up.

 

She's not helpless, she's just vulnerable and there is nothing wrong with getting help.

 

If she were a drug addict and she blocked her dealer yet he kept coming to her house and trying to give her heroin, would you advise her not to call the cops and say she's helpless to make her own choice?

It's kind of the same thing. She's trying and her actions were right in blocking and having NC. Her heart will take some time to follow as many ow will tell you.

 

Right now, willpower and doing whatever you can to self preserve so you don't have temptations is the most important thing.

 

Thanks for letting me explain timshel, no disrespect

Edited December 17, 2016 by aileD

[Timshel]

Thanks for letting me explain timshel, no disrespect

 

None taken, of course and none meant . Your username is lowercase.

[jah526]

I told him I'm taking a stand. I refused to see him. I told him that I'm done sneaking around. I can't trust myself when I'm around him. So anything he has to say he can say in over the phone.

 

Remember when you said this? Six days ago? He is completely disrespecting you by showing up at your door against your expressed wishes. Love involves sacrificing for another. If you were a drug addict and he was your supplier, and you asked him not to come around again with the drugs, and he still did, would you view that as helpful behavior? Would you see him as someone who has your best interests at heart?

 

I say, don't let him in. Talk to the doorman. End of story.

[aileD]

Remember when you said this? Six days ago? He is completely disrespecting you by showing up at your door against your expressed wishes. Love involves sacrificing for another. If you were a drug addict and he was your supplier, and you asked him not to come around again with the drugs, and he still did, would you view that as helpful behavior? Would you see him as someone who has your best interests at heart?

 

I say, don't let him in. Talk to the doorman. End of story.

 

Until he waits outside the building when he knows she leaves for work.

[Satu]

Until he waits outside the building when he knows she leaves for work.

 

He would almost certainly do that if he couldn't get into the building.

[whatatangledweb]

Call the police if he is harrassing you or stalking you. You didn't tell his wife when you wanted him around now you want to make it her responsibility. Treat him like you would any other guy that was doing it to you.

[jennifernyc84]

I couldn't hold in what I had to say. I'll copy and paste what I said word for word.

 

Josh, listen.

 

I've been thinking about last night non stop. I literally haven't stopped thinking about it. I've replayed the whole thing in my mind countless time, thinking of what I could've done or said different to change the situation. But it doesn't matter. I could have 101 different things to say and do but when I'm around you I throw them all out the window. I'm powerless when it comes to you.

 

I need to change that.

 

I don't want what you have been giving me. Spare time. It's rips my heart out every time you leave. I'm living from the last time I've seen you til the next. I'm 31 years old, josh. I expected to be married and have kids by now. Am I not good enough for that? I've put my life on hold for the last 4 years. What am I saying? I've been crazy for you from the day we met when I was 10. I was 10!!!

 

It's been long enough.

 

You can't just come in, flip my world upside down, leave me in the dust, without so much as a text message. Then come back in 2 months with a few romantic words and a kiss. No...I won't this time. As much as I love you Josh I need to learn to love me. Jennifer. God knows you don't.

 

I need you to please stay away from me josh. It's killing me to have to do this trust me. And it will hurt. But it will be the last time that it hurts. And I will heal. You keep ripping my heart out over and over. There's nothing left of me josh. You've made sure of that.

 

I will miss you. I am not strong enough to do this. So I need your help. Stop building castles and then smashing them. Please leave me alone if you have no intention on being with me and only me! You have a wife and son! Have you no respect for them?

 

I love you josh. I always thought we'd be together in the end.

 

Ha. Silly me right. Maybe in another life.

 

Goodbye.

 

 

 

 

That's what I wrote. I had to let him know. Sound bad?

[Jemima1234]

I couldn't hold in what I had to say. I'll copy and paste what I said word for word.

 

Josh, listen.

 

I've been thinking about last night non stop. I literally haven't stopped thinking about it. I've replayed the whole thing in my mind countless time, thinking of what I could've done or said different to change the situation. But it doesn't matter. I could have 101 different things to say and do but when I'm around you I throw them all out the window. I'm powerless when it comes to you.

 

I need to change that.

 

I don't want what you have been giving me. Spare time. It's rips my heart out every time you leave. I'm living from the last time I've seen you til the next. I'm 31 years old, josh. I expected to be married and have kids by now. Am I not good enough for that? I've put my life on hold for the last 4 years. What am I saying? I've been crazy for you from the day we met when I was 10. I was 10!!!

 

It's been long enough.

 

You can't just come in, flip my world upside down, leave me in the dust, without so much as a text message. Then come back in 2 months with a few romantic words and a kiss. No...I won't this time. As much as I love you Josh I need to learn to love me. Jennifer. God knows you don't.

 

I need you to please stay away from me josh. It's killing me to have to do this trust me. And it will hurt. But it will be the last time that it hurts. And I will heal. You keep ripping my heart out over and over. There's nothing left of me josh. You've made sure of that.

 

I will miss you. I am not strong enough to do this. So I need your help. Stop building castles and then smashing them. Please leave me alone if you have no intention on being with me and only me! You have a wife and son! Have you no respect for them?

 

I love you josh. I always thought we'd be together in the end.

 

Ha. Silly me right. Maybe in another life.

 

Goodbye.

 

 

 

 

That's what I wrote. I had to let him know. Sound bad?

 

You know what - others may say it does but I don't think so. You have laid your heart out to him, told him to leave you, to help you, unless he is going to be with you. You are doing the right thing. I wish I had had your courage many months ago!!! Be prepared for tough times ahead but you are so right- this is the only way to heal and let it be the last time he hurts you

[jennifernyc84]

You know what - others may say it does but I don't think so. You have laid your heart out to him, told him to leave you, to help you, unless he is going to be with you. You are doing the right thing. I wish I had had your courage many months ago!!! Be prepared for tough times ahead but you are so right- this is the only way to heal and let it be the last time he hurts you

 

I have been contemplating on writing that for the last few days. It took a while to muster up the guts. Last night was just the straw that broke the camels back.

[jah526]

I need you to please stay away from me josh.

 

I think this is the important part. As others have said, you should think about what consequences to enforce if he doesn't.

[jennifernyc84]

I think this is the important part. As others have said, you should think about what consequences to enforce if he doesn't.

 

That was the purpose of me writing the letter.

 

It's terrifying to think he might actually listen.

 

I'm a mess

[jah526]

It's terrifying to think he might actually listen.

 

You will be fine. I will be fine. Yes, it is extremely difficult to say "go away" to someone who has been such a large part of your life, someone that it feels like every cell in your body is yearning for. But with time away you will open your mind to other thoughts, and at some point, you will look back at this and say, wow, what was I so worked up about?

 

I am getting there. You will too. I am trying to keep busy and talk to friends and family. I come here for support when I need it and that helps too.

 

Kudos on taking the first step.

[Grapesofwrath]

Great first step with the NC email. Now comes the difficult part...make it stick. You absolutely CAN get over him. It will take longer than a month. But you can absolutely do it. It is difficult, but it's not impossible.

 

You will heal. You will get wiser and stronger. You will get smarter. You won't make this choice again. You will find love, if you want it.

[aileD]

If it made you feel better to write that letter, then I'm glad you did it. You made a lot of good points and you did put your foot down. However, you were too emotional and you gave him a bunch of rope to hang you with. You're going to need to be extra strong because he now knows how weak you are and he's going to try to use that to get you to break no contact. Please come here and keep talking and keep reading and use us as a support system so that you can be strong and not fall for his manipulations again. No contact has begun. No excuses. No more last emails. If he responds to this email you're not allowed to respond back. You're done. Good luck and i'm rooting for you

[elaine567]

However, you were too emotional and you gave him a bunch of rope to hang you with. You're going to need to be extra strong because he now knows how weak you are and he's going to try to use that to get you to break no contact.

 

I agree, you showed him, you are very weak and you gave him a perfect way in too.

You: "Please leave me alone if you have no intention on being with me and only me!"

 

Him: "Of course we will be together, you just need to hang on in there till I get it all sorted out with my wife, of course I love you, you silly girl... I am so glad you still love me, I was so upset thinking that it may be all over... but I sort of knew by by the way you kissed me. "

 

So easy for him.

 

As aileD says, you need to be super strong here.

[jennifernyc84]

It's a little passed midnight here and he just sent an email back.

 

And before I tell you what he said, I just want to say that I haven't replied back to him.

 

His email, (I edited the profanity):

 

Please don't do this. I know I have been a total a** hole and I been f****** everything up. Just give me one last chance. I promise I will make things better. The most important thing you need to know is that I love you. I want to be with you. Whenever I look at her I see you. Whenever I see her with Jordan I keep thinking how I wish it was you raising our kids. Please don't give up on me. On us. We deserve this. We have waited too long. I will tell her. Just give me one last chance. I need you Jennifer. I can't spend one more day with you being mad at me. I miss you. Yesterday was the first time I felt like me in over a month. I know you felt it too. Let's start over. We can fix this. Come on. It's us. We always pull thru. Just call me. We can talk about it. I'll do whatever it takes. I love you Jen

 

 

 

That's what he wrote. I didn't say anything back. Just filling you all in.

 

My head is spinning.

[whatatangledweb]

It sounds nice and I'm sure you want to believe him. But it means nothing, everything will stay the same. If he was going to tell her then he would have done it before replying to you. Block him or you will reply. Then it will be the same as it was before.

[jah526]

Very impressed with elaine567's powers of prediction. She nailed it.

[spideywoman]

It's a little passed midnight here and he just sent an email back.

 

And before I tell you what he said, I just want to say that I haven't replied back to him.

 

His email, (I edited the profanity):

 

Please don't do this. I know I have been a total a** hole and I been f****** everything up. Just give me one last chance. I promise I will make things better. The most important thing you need to know is that I love you. I want to be with you. Whenever I look at her I see you. Whenever I see her with Jordan I keep thinking how I wish it was you raising our kids. Please don't give up on me. On us. We deserve this. We have waited too long. I will tell her. Just give me one last chance. I need you Jennifer. I can't spend one more day with you being mad at me. I miss you. Yesterday was the first time I felt like me in over a month. I know you felt it too. Let's start over. We can fix this. Come on. It's us. We always pull thru. Just call me. We can talk about it. I'll do whatever it takes. I love you Jen

 

 

 

That's what he wrote. I didn't say anything back. Just filling you all in.

 

My head is spinning.

 

Great _ don't reply. His answer was to be expected. This is your chance to show him (not tell him) that YOU MEAN BUSINESS this time. You have said what you needed to stay, stick to it. He read your words and he replied _ therefore assuming he has understood them. Now it's up to you to continue enforcing, non-verbally, the decision you've made regarding him.

 

If he's genuine in what he's saying, then let him do it. If he wants to end his marriage, let him. Don't be a part of it. Stand your ground. He doesn't need you for that. He's an adult man. Let him take care of his life and don't be involved in the rollercoaster ride any longer. Besides, if he has the intention of doing this at all, it must be for himself and not for you, if that makes sense.

 

This equation is about him and his wife and you have no part in it at this stage. Give him the opportunity to follow up on his words with actions if he's capable of it and if that's what he truly wants. Meantime, focus on moving forward and NOT waiting to hear an update from him. Believe me, I know it's tough as all hell, but it's possible and you can do it. One step at a time, a day at a time, one foot in front of the other. As far as you're concerned, this relationship is over. Let it be for now until something changes, if it does; and if it doesn't, you'll have your very clear answer and the bonus of being way ahead in the healing game. Either way, this is what's best for all involved including his wife.

 

And a personal anecdote. It does get better with time. Every gut punch I received from xMM either directly or indirectly, either by him breaking NC or sending smoke signals, inured me. It doesn't hurt as much anymore, barely registers now. It just makes me angry.

 

Stay strong.

Edited December 18, 2016 by spideywoman

[goodyblue]

Don't answer him! See, he is lying his face off to get what HE wants, not what YOU need.

 

He wishes you were raising their kids? I don't think I have heard a sh*ttier thing said by MM.

 

If what he says is true, if he will do whatever it takes, he will leave his wife and file hour him, you AND his wife.

 

Don't do one single thing until he does.

Edited December 18, 2016 by goodyblue

[Foreverago]

Do you know how Elaine predicted this so well?

 

Because they all do it. Mine did it to me repeatedly anytime I'd pull away. The many moments you attempt to be strong and upset the status quo is the moment they get all dramatic. Either with this BS I LOVE YOU (ego strokes) or with the punishment of silence depending on how cruel they are. They are the only ones who are allowed to leave. It's not about you as you are. It's about what you stand for and what they get from you.

 

If he meant it, truly, he'd have the divorce papers started the first month apart. Think about it. If he wants you the way you want him, he'd be moving the earth to be with you and not just talking. That's just how people are.

 

Pretty words are a mask to the monster underneath. It's ok to stumble, but please understand you are prolonging your pain. Christmas is coming. New Years. Valentine's. Don't you deserve a man who will celebrate the fun holidays freely and with gusto? Don't you deserve to be loved without this pain and grief constantly eating at your heart? You do.