Should I leave him?

[amaysngrace]

I just booked a flight for Monday. I'm having a breakdown, I can't believe I'm leaving. I'm having mixed emotions right now. I'm happy I'm finally going to see my family, but at the same time I'm sad because my heart still loves this guy, although I know he hasn't been fair to me at all. But when will this sadness pass? I've never went through a real breakup, and it's so difficult.

 

When it was going good, it was really amazing being with him! First year and a half were a dream, and now in the past 4-5 months the things were rough often, we would fight for stupid things - all because of our nervousness, his unemployment, my job that I didn't like, etc. And it ended up like this...

 

For me the sadness passed the day I woke up far away from him. So for you that could very well be Tuesday.

 

I thought my guy was Mr. Wonderful too in the beginning and that's probably what kept me longer than I should have stayed. I kept wishing for the nice guy to come back....hoping for things to be good again. I totally understand where you're at right now.

 

Just keep being brave. You're almost there and you're doing great!

[Aria9]

@amaysngrace: I really, really, really hope what you said will be true for me as well! I'm glad you understand me - I would never have stayed that long if the guy wasn't so amazing, and really I had the best time ever with him, until the trouble came! And, just like you, I was always hoping things would change and everything will go back to the way it was before. But things don't always go the way we expect them to... And I learned that the hard way.

 

It will hurt everytime I take a look at my wedding dress, wedding ring, all those things I never got to put on for that special day... And it's killing me. I don't want to go through something like this EVER again

[Downtown]

Aria, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling attitude, verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your BF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your BF exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been dating for two years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

He's become very aggressive towards me and he HITS ME in my face or arms, leaving me bruises.

If your BF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

He started insulting me and telling me he can't stand me anymore, telling me to shut up, and he slapped my face a few times.

This rapid flip from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (hating you) is the very same behavior you see in 3- and 4-year old children. A young child will adore Mommy when she's bringing out the toys but, in an instant, will flip to hating Mommy when she takes one toy away.

 

These rapid flips occur because young children -- and BPDers as well -- are too emotionally immature to tolerate the experience of having strong mixed feelings. Their subconscious minds therefore "split off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., love), putting it temporarily out of reach of their conscious minds. In this way, they only have to deal with one intense feeling at a time.

 

This process is called "black-white thinking." It usually is most evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." It also is evident in your BF's claim that he "can't stand you" anymore.

 

But I really love this guy.... I would never have stayed that long if the guy wasn't so amazing, and really I had the best time ever with him.

Like young children, most BPDers are basically good people who are very VERY easy to fall in love with. Their problem is not being "bad" but, rather, being emotionally unstable and immature. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

I'm so confused and I don't know what to do.

Aria, if you actually have been dating a BPDer for two years, "confused" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

I therefore agree with all the respondents that you should leave him immediately. I also suggest that, while you're waiting for your airplane departure, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your BF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your BF back or running into the arms of another man just like him. Take care, Aria.

[Aria9]

If your BF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds.

 

This is exactly what he's been doing. He bursted into a rage because I said I don't know what to wear! That's just one example!

 

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

So true... I always think next time will be better, if I just avoid saying/doing the last thing that made him angry.

 

 

 

I've read your posts in Rebel's thread, and they are shockingly accurate in describing my fiance's behaviour! I feel like you know us personally!

Now to comment on that:

Did I mention that my fiance suffers from anxiety? It's been diagnosed to him a little before the beginning of our relationship, and at first, he would get panic attacks out of the blue, but he wasn't aggressive - he would just isolate and need some time on his own (usually an hour or two) until he felt better. During our relationship, his anxiety attacks weren't happening that often - it seems like everything was fine, he would just sometimes have very strong mood swings. But lately, since our fights started, I think the anxiety has come in a new way - the aggressive one.

Also, he's always been jealous and controlling in our relationship, but then again, I've been exactly the same!

And I noticed I'm co-dependent to him. I would often feel it's worth putting up with all his aggression and insults, just because the periods of happiness were so beautiful and he was treating me like a princess! He once said I'm the best thing that has ever happened in his life, and if someone asked him after 10, 20, 30 years, his response would be the same. I'm the best thing he ever had.

 

 

 

Downtown, your post really helped me a lot in realizing he shows many signs of BPD. And, as you said, there's nothing I can do to help him, right? He needs to help himself first. I would like to stay in contact with you, you seem to have a lot of experience dating a person suffering from BPD. Thanks for your help!

 

P.S. It just crossed my mind - a person might ask did he ever love me truly? I don't know what you think, but I am absolutely sure yes, he did love me. When things were fine, he would show me in a million ways how much I mean to him. He would listen to my problems, comfort me, remember all the stuff I told him, although they weren't important - in short, he really paid attention to my wishes. Too bad his inability to control himself in certain situations of anger has become unbearable...

I've been reading now many articles about BPD, and I'm curious - is there a way for a person like this to go back to 'normal' state of mind? I really wish him all the best in life, and I hope one day he'll learn to control his emotions and make someone happy, just like he made me the happiest girl in the world. And now he destroyed me.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Aria9
addition of text

[Downtown]

Did I mention that my fiance suffers from anxiety? It's been diagnosed....

Aria, if your fiance really is a BPDer, he likely exhibits strong traits of a second PD as well -- together with one or two "clinical disorders" (e.g., anxiety, depression, panic attacks, PTSD, bipolar, or OCD). As to the anxiety disorder you mention, I note that a recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that 66% of the males having a lifetime incidence of BPD also suffer from a co-occurring, full-blown anxiety disorder. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

 

He would get panic attacks out of the blue, but he wasn't aggressive - he would just isolate and need some time on his own (usually an hour or two) until he felt better.

You seem to be describing a panic attack with agoraphobia, which is an anxiety disorder characterized by symptoms of anxiety in situations where the person perceives the environment to be unsafe with no easy way to get away. These situations can include open spaces, public transit, shopping malls, or simply being outside the home.

 

The study mentioned above found that 43% of the males experiencing panic attacks with agoraphobia in the past year also suffer from full-blown BPD. And it found that 32% of the males experiencing panic attacks without agoraphobia also suffer from full-blown BPD. Hence, having agoraphobia together with the panic attack increases the chance of his having BPD from 32% to 43%. See Table 2 at the 2008 study cited above.

 

 

He would just sometimes have very strong mood swings.

Aria, the two most common cause of mood swings are a strong hormone change (e.g., puberty) and drug abuse. Yet, because he is well past puberty and you mention no drug problem, you may be able to rule those causes out. If so, I note that the two remaining common causes of mood swings are BPD and bipolar disorder. Significantly, the behaviors you describe here are much closer to the warning signs for BPD.

 

Yet, even if he does have full-blown BPD, this would not rule out his having bipolar too. The 2008 study found that 31% of male BPDers also have bipolar-1 and 7% of those male BPDers suffer from bipolar-2. It therefore may be worth your while to take a quick look at my description of 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences. In that post, I describe the differences I've seen between the typical behaviors of a BPDer (my exW) and a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son).

 

As you said, there's nothing I can do to help him, right?

Right. If he really is a BPDer, he is emotionally stunted because he did not have the opportunity to learn basic emotional skills. These missing skills include, e.g.,

 

• how to do self soothing,
  
• how to regulate his own emotions,
  
• how to remain in the present instead of escaping, through daydreams, into the past and future,
  
• how to intellectually challenge his intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts,"
  
• how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate dealing with strong conflicting feelings,
  
• how to gain self esteem, and
  
• how to trust himself and, thus, be able to trust others as well.
  

A person might ask did he ever love me truly? I don't know what you think, but I am absolutely sure yes, he did love me.

I agree with you. If he were a full-blown narcissist or sociopath, he would be incapable of loving you. BPDers, however, are capable of loving very passionately and intensely -- albeit in the immature way in which very young children are able to love. That immature love is insufficient to sustain a close mature adult relationship such as a marriage.

 

The BPDer's love nonetheless is very real. If you doubt that, just ask any parent whether they believe that their young child loves them. Even though young children flip back and forth between loving and hating their parents nearly every day, those parents will give you a resounding "YES" when you ask the question.

 

Is there a way for a person like this to go back to 'normal' state of mind?

Aria, most major cities in Europe offer excellent treatment programs (e.g., DBT and CBT) that teach BPDers how to acquire those missing skills. But, sadly, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to seek out such a program -- and to remain in it long enough (several years at least) -- to make a real difference. I've never found any authoritative statistics but I would be surprised if as much as 1% of the high functioning BPDers have the self awareness and ego strength required to succeed in those programs.

 

Even so, it is important -- for the BPDer's own welfare -- that he be held fully accountable for his bad choices and decisions. Otherwise, he has no incentive to learn how to better manage his own emotions. This is why it is important that he be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of his own actions. He must learn that his lack of basic emotional skills does not give him a free pass to abuse other people.

[Meaulnes]

Aria, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling attitude, verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your BF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your BF exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been dating for two years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

If your BF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

This rapid flip from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (hating you) is the very same behavior you see in 3- and 4-year old children. A young child will adore Mommy when she's bringing out the toys but, in an instant, will flip to hating Mommy when she takes one toy away.

 

These rapid flips occur because young children -- and BPDers as well -- are too emotionally immature to tolerate the experience of having strong mixed feelings. Their subconscious minds therefore "split off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., love), putting it temporarily out of reach of their conscious minds. In this way, they only have to deal with one intense feeling at a time.

 

This process is called "black-white thinking." It usually is most evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." It also is evident in your BF's claim that he "can't stand you" anymore.

 

Like young children, most BPDers are basically good people who are very VERY easy to fall in love with. Their problem is not being "bad" but, rather, being emotionally unstable and immature. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

Aria, if you actually have been dating a BPDer for two years, "confused" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

I therefore agree with all the respondents that you should leave him immediately. I also suggest that, while you're waiting for your airplane departure, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your BF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your BF back or running into the arms of another man just like him. Take care, Aria.

 

Hi Downtown, first of all excuse my English as it isn't my first language.

 

You seem to really know about BPD. I've been reading some of your posts and I'm really interested in knowing more about it as I've lived a strange situation recently with my now ex fiancée.

 

I'd really appreciate if you had the time to read my story (I posted it here a couple of days ago) and let me think what do you think about it. I've been adding new posts to the original one so you should go through the 3 pages to better understand it. I've just checked the 18 warning sings and I'm sure she showed me several throughout the whole relationship.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/606296-my-fiancee-broke-up-me-extreme-change-mind-police-threats

 

When the relationship finished I was so confused I started looking for mental disorders because I didn't understand any of her actions. It was then that I discovered about the BPD and related it to what happened. If ever you read my story and answer me, I'll tell you how she used to behave. I'm afraid she may be BPD.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Meaulnes

[Downtown]

Hi Downtown... if ever you read my story and answer me, I'll tell you how she used to behave. I'm afraid she may be BPD.

Yes, Meaulnes, I've been following your story since you started the thread four days ago. What caught my attention was your Ex's outrageous action of pretending to call the police about your upcoming trip to visit her in the States. I had not yet jumped into the discussion, however, because you had not yet mentioned any clear evidence of emotional instability during the 4.5 years of dating. An essential feature of BPD behavior is instability.

 

Of course, I realize you've not had time to tell us everything about your Ex's behavior. I therefore have responded with a new post in your thread. I would be glad to continue this discussion about your Ex with you there.

[Formerfiveo]

Aria,

 

Please update us when you can. Are you back home with your family yet?