Engagement and Age

[unexpected]

Hi,

 

I recently started dating a woman who is 40 years old. I am 45. We've been seeing each other for 3 months and things are going very well. I was worried things might be moving too fast but then learned that that people in their 40's and above tend to move things along a little quicker if both people know what they want, per a relationship counselor that we see together (not because we have problems but to better understand each others triggers).

 

However, we recently had a conversation about expectations as the relationship progresses. She told me that she expects someone our age to know within 6 months of heavy dating whether they see the other person as marriage material. She actually said 6 months to a year. I'm inclined to agree with the year part, not so comfortable with the 6 month part. We've both been married before (mine lasted 17 years, hers 13 years) so we know what being in a long term relationship looks like.

 

My question to the community is this: for those of you in your 40's and older, do things generally move faster when you find the 'right' person? Is expecting an engagement proposal, or at least a verbal intent to marry, a realistic expectation at around the 6 month point?

[Philosoraptor]

I generally think people who know what they want, are able to discover quicker if their potential mate is a fit.

 

My wife and I knew we were right fight pretty quickly as we had enough introspective knowledge about ourselves, and communicated well from the beginning. We were engaged just shy of 5 months of dating, married 14 months after that. In our late 20's now.

[MadJackBird]

Depends.

 

Are there kids involved? I was in my late 30s and my now fiance in her mid 40s when we started dating. Like you, both coming out of other long marriages. We got engaged a little over 2 years later. Within a year we had talks about what our future looked like, but had complications with kids from previous and each owning our own house, so navigating how that looked took some time. At one point we discussed waiting 5 years until our kids were mostly through some school transitions, but we decided to take the plunge a bit earlier.

 

But in general her time line sounds a bit aggressive for 6 months, 1-2 years seems more appropriate.

 

Good Luck

[unexpected]

Ah, I'll add more info.

 

I have a house, she rents. I work full time, she works part time. I have a daughter (11) whom I have 50% of the time. She has a daughter (13) whom she does not get to see much (but that could change).

 

My ex and I are still close as we work at the same organization and our divorce was amicable. So, my gf knows that I'm not looking for a quick fill-in 'mommy'. My daughter has a mom! I've been separated 18 months, officially divorced for 8 months. My gf and her ex are not speaking and do not get along amicably (thus the reason she doesn't see her daughter much, lots of custody fighting). She has been divorced for 4 years. Neither of us were the initiators in our divorces and both of us were being cheated on. So, we were both going to stay in our marriages despite the infidelity because we believed in 'til death do us part' and were going to try and work on our marriages but our spouses decided otherwise.

 

Other than that, she isn't looking to get married in 6 months time, just looking to verify that neither of us is wasting each others time. We both want to find someone to marry someday and would hate to waste years on someone only to find out they can't 'commit' to someone like ourselves. She thinks you should have a pretty good feeling around the 6 month, to a year, point. Her perspective is that if you don't know by then, you're just wasting the other persons time.

[avf]

I would agree 6 months to a year shows if you are compatible and love each other.. In mid 40s you cannot really take years to feel the other out. If you are not sure in a year's time then there are reservations .... Good Luck and enjoy the relation...don't be pressured if you feel it ...go for it !

[joseb]

Does she want more kids? If not, then I don't understand the rush.

You've both been married already, why the need to do all that again asap.

 

Whose idea was it to see a relationship councillor?

[ChatroomHero]

For me it is a year...1 time through family holidays, 1 time through an anniversary of dating, 1 time through your birthday and kids birthdays, 1 time through tax returns, 1 time through winter (do you love the snow and going places to snowmobile or ski and she absolutely hates it), one time though the summer (do you water ski, camp, fish and she resents when you do), one time through the fall(do you love football and going to high school o college games and she hates it), 1 time through summer (do you go to 20 baseball games a year and look forward to them and want her to go but she refuses to even go to 1 because she hates it), etc...

 

 

When I was younger I always thought 6 months was plenty of time to know. The older I get the more I am convinced it takes at least a year to see a person full circle. You might know her well but after 6 months find out at tax time she hasn't filed taxes in 3 years, or she gets depressed or hates the holidays, or in the winter refuses to do anything you want to.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I'm a 40-something and feel that 6-months+ is about right. Not necessarily to get married, but realize that that other person is worthy if it comes to it. Frankly, I don't believe more than 2-3 years regardless of age. Whether at 20 or 30, wasted YEARS is wasted YEARS.

 

Now, I am assuming that the two of you have had steady, consistent, frequent visits/co-habitation...

[joseb]

It's only wasted years if you are in a relationship that's not right for you. I'd rather "waste" 10 years in a loving happy relationship then jump into a marriage and be miserable for the next 9 because of a piece of paper I signed told me I had to.

[startingagain15]

It seems pretty soon to jump into ideas of engagement at only 6 months, esp. since you've only been divorced 8 months. Seems like a good point to be making the decision whether you see the potential for marriage, but I'd still wait at least a year imo.

 

I'm low 40s, BF is mid 40s, we've been dating a year and half and we plan to get married and/or move in together this next summer, so at over the 2 year mark. I probably would have been happy to make the decision at 1 year, and he wouldn't mind waiting another year, so we are compromising. We have 6 kids between us, he's divorced (4 years now) and I'm widowed, so lots of other people/variables to consider.

[Gaeta]

You need to start thinking with your head here.

 

First, You've been dating 3 months and already in therapy to learn about communicating don't you see the huge red flag right from the get go? At 3 months dating you should be humping like rabbits and have no difficulties communicating. You are also in the get-to-know-phase, Yes you are suppose to learn ON YOU OWN what are her triggers. And triggers of what?? for god sake!! this should be 100% honeymoon territory and every little facets of you should endear her.

 

You are both recently out of relationships and both in a hurry to pick up in a new relationship where you've left off in the old one.

 

Second, she is in a hurry to lock you in a marriage because she just found herself a nice wallet. You have a house, you have a job that allows you to have a house and on her end she has NOTHING to show for, not even a full time job when she has no kids home! And what is this about not seeing her child? You have to be in serious trouble for a judge to not give a mother full custody or 50% custody.

 

Again red flags flying left and right.

 

I am 50 years old, I was married 15 years, then 4 years and now in a relationship of 1 year. Yes at 6 months I was in love with my boyfriend but would I marry him tomorrow? NO! After 1 year dating I am still discovering traits of his personality that I need to decide if they are deal breakers or not. I may be in love but I am not stupid-in-love!

 

Because I am 50, because I have been in a long term marriages I KNOW 3-6 months is NOT enough to tell someone you want to marry them and melt your families and melt your finances together.

[unexpected]

Does she want more kids? If not, then I don't understand the rush.

You've both been married already, why the need to do all that again asap.

 

Whose idea was it to see a relationship councillor?

 

No - she doesn't want anymore kids, and neither do I. I don't think it is a rush to marry that she is talking about but more like coming to the decision that marriage is the long term goal. I don't expect to get engaged to her at the 6 month point but rather have an assessment on whether we think there is anything there worthy of putting a ring on it someday. I think the only thing I would do at the 6 month point is to tell her I'm committed to making this a life long endeavor and that engagement would come 3 - 6 months after that. She is a jeweler and designs jewelry. I can tell her that I'd like her to design her engagement ring so that I know what to get when the time comes.

 

It was her idea to seek a relationship counselor. But, it was actually a GOOD idea. It has been useful. In the first three months we've had situations that indicated where we would have problems if we wanted to make a long term commitment of the relationship. We've both been burned significantly between being cheated on, being in abusive relationships, along with minor mental health issues like depression and anxiety. Relationship counseling has been good in helping us identify one another's triggers and how to communicate with each other in ways that do not trigger the other persons issues. I thought it was silly at first but I'll try anything once. I've been pleasantly surprised!

 

Also, because of how she has been burned in the past, she would not move into a co-habitation situation until we are engaged. We technically co-habitate now as she stays at my house 90% of the time. But, she still has her own place, primarily as a way to help her not feel entrapped should the relationship go awry.

[Gaeta]

 

It was her idea to seek a relationship counselor. But, it was actually a GOOD idea. It has been useful. In the first three months we've had situations that indicated where we would have problems if we wanted to make a long term commitment of the relationship.

 

When you run into obstacles at 3 months dating you break up and search for someone better suited for you. I find this ridiculous to seek professional help at 3 months. It indicates you BOTH have personal unsolved issues you need to work on individually.

 

This collection of issues, depression, anxiety, cheating, abuse ALL need to be addressed in therapy INDIVIDUALLY before entering a new relationship.

 

You are only 8 months out of a marriage. Have you dated at all before this woman? What is the rush into marrying especially you do not want children? I bet she is afraid you'll change your mind about her if you date her over 1 year.

[unexpected]

You need to start thinking with your head here.

 

First, You've been dating 3 months and already in therapy to learn about communicating don't you see the huge red flag right from the get go? At 3 months dating you should be humping like rabbits and have no difficulties communicating. You are also in the get-to-know-phase, Yes you are suppose to learn ON YOU OWN what are her triggers. And triggers of what?? for god sake!! this should be 100% honeymoon territory and every little facets of you should endear her.

 

You are both recently out of relationships and both in a hurry to pick up in a new relationship where you've left off in the old one.

 

Second, she is in a hurry to lock you in a marriage because she just found herself a nice wallet. You have a house, you have a job that allows you to have a house and on her end she has NOTHING to show for, not even a full time job when she has no kids home! And what is this about not seeing her child? You have to be in serious trouble for a judge to not give a mother full custody or 50% custody.

 

Again red flags flying left and right.

 

I am 50 years old, I was married 15 years, then 4 years and now in a relationship of 1 year. Yes at 6 months I was in love with my boyfriend but would I marry him tomorrow? NO! After 1 year dating I am still discovering traits of his personality that I need to decide if they are deal breakers or not. I may be in love but I am not stupid-in-love!

 

Because I am 50, because I have been in a long term marriages I KNOW 3-6 months is NOT enough to tell someone you want to marry them and melt your families and melt your finances together.

 

Hi, I appreciate your honest feedback.

 

I'll try to answer your questions.

 

The triggers we are learning about come from mental health issues. She is bipolar (but well treated) and so I am learning to understand what that entails and how I can help her. She also has PTSD from a break in and sexual assault that happened to her about 2.5 years ago. I have relationship anxiety issues and she is learning what types of behaviors make me nervous, insecure, or uneasy. We aren't 'fixing' anything in counseling. Just learning.

 

Her bipolar and PTSD were not diagnosed and treated properly until about a year and a half ago, after she had an episode and broke a no contact order that her ex-husband had place on her because she showed up unannounced at his place looking for her daughter (whom she was supposed to pick up somewhere else but she was not there). Her ex used the breaking of the no contact and her mental health issues to have the court place a no contact on her daughter for the duration of the probation. She did nothing terrible but give her husband the fodder he needed to take her out of the picture because they hate each other!

 

She used to be the VP of a major branch of banks in the area but retired when she knew her husband was going to divorce her and try to take her for a ton of alimony (because she made significantly more than him).

 

Since her breakdown and arrest, she has seen a therapist for nearly 2 years. She has been medicated and taught ways to help cope with her symptoms. She's a good woman who just broke. She has income from part time work and disability due to her PTSD. She doesn't need money from me. And, she knows that I wouldn't marry her unless there was pre-nup anyway to protect everything I would bring to the marriage. I got soaked for $127k on my last marriage. Not doing that again.

 

Anyway, I'm not proposing to her at the 6 month point. She said 6-12 months should be sufficient for a couple to make a decision about the future of the relationship. That doesn't mean engagement or marriage. It simply means that if I do not see marriage in the future, after 6 - 12 months, I should let her go. Sounds reasonable to me. She just asking I don't waste her time.

 

So, everything is not as it seems. She is a good woman. I've seen pictures and videos of her with her daughter and she is a good Mom. She had a breakdown, did some stupid stuff, and her ex-husband used it as a way to hurt her. It's actually one of the saddest and most unjust stories I've ever heard and cannot believe it. But, I looked up the court records and she has not lied about it one bit. I've also noticed that the only things on her record are from the series of events that took place over a one month period which led to her daughter being removed from her life. She was having a breakdown consisting of a bipolar episode with PTSD symptoms. My perspective is that I'm not going to stop seeing someone because they have an illness. It's more about whether they are doing what is needed to treat that illness....and she is!

Edited December 13, 2016 by unexpected

[Gaeta]

And that is the woman you have picked to spend the second half of your life with? A woman with a long list of mental issues who lost custody of her child, who quit her job to not have to face her parental responsibilities ! Really? Your ex took you for 127K but now you are considering marrying a woman that runs away from her financial responsibilities, has several mental issues that could turn to drama any day if she stops her medication. You think if it doesn't work between you she will hesitate to take you to the dry cleaner? C'mon!

 

Wake up! Is this the only woman that gave you a bit of attention since your divorce? In 3 months dating she shoved all of these issues and history on you and you have not run away yet?

[unexpected]

And that is the woman you have picked to spend the second half of your life with? A woman with a long list of mental issues who lost custody of her child, who quit her job to not have to face her parental responsibilities ! Really? Your ex took you for 127K but now you are considering marrying a woman that runs away from her financial responsibilities, has several mental issues that could turn to drama any day if she stops her medication. You think if it doesn't work between you she will hesitate to take you to the dry cleaner? C'mon!

 

Wake up! Is this the only woman that gave you a bit of attention since your divorce? In 3 months dating she shoved all of these issues and history on you and you have not run away yet?

 

No - I have been separated for over 1.5 years. Went on many dates. Had a short three month relationship with another woman. I actually like this woman. I see where you are going with your assessment and, trust me, I have actually thought through many of the same things.

 

I've screwed things up in my life before, too. And, done things that would have landed me in pretty hot water had I actually been caught. I have family members that have made bad decisions in life and now they are wonderful people. Sometimes people do stupid things! I think the fact that she was upfront and honest about these things is NOT a red flag. A red flag would be not telling me anything about anything and expecting me to decide about a long term future without having all the cards on the table. Her behavior up to this point in the relationship would not have indicated anything about her issues as she is doing extremely well in her treatments. She would not have needed to tell me about any of it and I would have known none the better. So, if she is out to take me for a ride and ruin my life, why tell me all of this stuff up front? That wouldn't benefit her long game if her intent was to mislead/deceive and 'trap' me. She told me everything upfront because she knows from her treatments and therapy that she would need somebody to keep an eye on her moods from time to time and help her!

 

I'm 45 and she is 40. Hell, in another 10 - 15 years we will need to keep an eye on each other for probably a whole host of medical reasons. That's life. I'm not going to jump into marriage with her after 6 months. The whole point of this thread was to see what people thought was the 'normal' time for making an educated decision on such things.

 

I do enjoy your candidness, though! It's refreshing!

[LargoLagg]

Hi,

 

I recently started dating a woman who is 40 years old. I am 45. We've been seeing each other for 3 months and things are going very well. I was worried things might be moving too fast but then learned that that people in their 40's and above tend to move things along a little quicker if both people know what they want, per a relationship counselor that we see together (not because we have problems but to better understand each others triggers).

 

However, we recently had a conversation about expectations as the relationship progresses. She told me that she expects someone our age to know within 6 months of heavy dating whether they see the other person as marriage material. She actually said 6 months to a year. I'm inclined to agree with the year part, not so comfortable with the 6 month part. We've both been married before (mine lasted 17 years, hers 13 years) so we know what being in a long term relationship looks like.

 

My question to the community is this: for those of you in your 40's and older, do things generally move faster when you find the 'right' person? Is expecting an engagement proposal, or at least a verbal intent to marry, a realistic expectation at around the 6 month point?

Women like her are why 2/3 of second marriages end in divorce. A person can be marriage material, and still not be right for you. I think she's like one of those girls who go looking for a relationship. Being "in it" is the prize. Who she's with is a secondary consideration.

 

I see an iceberg ahead. Don't be the Titanic.

[Gaeta]

She used to be the VP of a major branch of banks in the area but retired when she knew her husband was going to divorce her and try to take her for a ton of alimony (because she made significantly more than him).

 

I must underline this again.

 

If you had done that, if you had quit your job to not pay child support and alimony what would women think of you? what would society think of you? You'd be seen as a loser. Because your girlfriend is a woman it's ok for her to skip her financial responsibilities? Those are the rules of marriage, if she did not want to play by the rules of marriage than she had to not get married. WHY would you want to marry a woman that won't play by the rules of marriage?

[unexpected]

I must underline this again.

 

If you had done that, if you had quit your job to not pay child support and alimony what would women think of you? what would society think of you? You'd be seen as a loser. Because your girlfriend is a woman it's ok for her to skip her financial responsibilities? Those are the rules of marriage, if she did not want to play by the rules of marriage than she had to not get married. WHY would you want to marry a woman that won't play by the rules of marriage?

 

She is actually paying child support. She just didn't want to pay alimony to her ex-husband who was divorcing her because he found a new girl at work he liked to play with. He wasn't playing by the rules, either. And, this happened RIGHT after SHE finished paying for his PHD.

[Gaeta]

 

I do enjoy your candidness, though! It's refreshing!

 

I am glad you are not offended by my forwardness. See my cousin of 44 divorced July 2016 and last week married a woman he met online 3 months ago only. He told all of our family he's 44 therefore he knows what he's doing. Ya right! It's like the blood left his head. Your story is a sensitive subject for me.

[Gaeta]

She is actually paying child support. She just didn't want to pay alimony to her ex-husband who was divorcing her because he found a new girl at work he liked to play with. He wasn't playing by the rules, either. And, this happened RIGHT after SHE finished paying for his PHD.

 

That is why you have to date people for a good 2 years to really get to know them before signing a legal contract with them, marriage. She made bad decisions back then by picking him to marry and father her child. Shouldn't she be more cautious of who she will marry now? Shouldn't you be more cautious?

[unexpected]

I am glad you are not offended by my forwardness. See my cousin of 44 divorced July 2016 and last week married a woman he met online 3 months ago only. He told all of our family he's 44 therefore he knows what he's doing. Ya right! It's like the blood left his head. Your story is a sensitive subject for me.

 

Well, if things progress in my relationship and I do move forward in a year or so, and it blows up on me, I'll always remember that you told me so. LOL!

 

Thank you!

[joseb]

OK, if it was me I would have run a mile a few times already.

But in fairness, I am not looking for marriage, and it would take an amazing woman to get me to commit to anything long term anyway.

 

OP, I sense a little white knight in you, that you feel you can fix all her problems. Just be careful about that. Make sure you are with her for the right reasons - that you love her, that she makes your life better.

 

Don't let her push any aggressive timelines. If she is not looking for kids, there is no reason to be rushing into marriage or engagement. A lot of times, people try to rush things because they can only keep it together to hold up a facade just long enough.

 

I'm not sure about the whole therapy thing after three months, on the one hand it's good that you are both open to addressing relationship problems. On the other, as Gaeta says, three months in you should be totally infatuated and really there should not be any issues so early if there is to be a future.

 

Just be careful, I don't see this ending well, but hopefully I might be wrong!

Edited December 13, 2016 by joseb

[TheTraveler]

Three months and already in therapy...I dunno what to say:lmao:

[No_Go]

6 months to an year I think should be enough to determine interest in marriage, of course better to wait a bit longer (1-2 years) for proposal. Anything else is dragging it out when you're already mature adults.

 

My exbf was religious so he wanted to get engaged at 9-12 months. I was definitely not ready, neither was he, he was constantly hinting proposal (asking permission to marry me first from my family) between 1-1.5 years in, and when I didn't bite on that - he decided I'm 'not serious' about him, and started looking for alternatives (attempted cheating) leading to our break up. Therefore: be very clear with each other expectations. If she's dead set on marriage talk 6-12 months in - have it (not proposal, but talk - yes), or she may flip thinking 'you're not serious'.