One year later and still no trust

[Hefooledme]

This is my first post. has been a year since my husband told me about his various relationships with other women. It has been a year filled with ups and downs. He appears to be trying really hard but I just don't trust anything he says. It is driving me crazy and I hate living like this. How can I possibly trust him when he has lied to my face so many times in the past. Is there any hope that trust can be restored? Does anyone have and tips for how to deal with this.

Quick background...my husband had his first affair 9 years ago 3 years and one child into our marriage. He went on to have multiple short term relationships with women (both physical and or emotional). I had no idea until he told me everything a year ago. He said he was trying to become a better person and wanted to make things right. He said telling me was the first step in doing that. He promised to be completely open and honest with me. He promised he will never do anything like that ever again.

We went to counciling. He has been working on himself. I went to counciling. Our marriage is and always has been good. We have always had a good sex life. We have 4 children together. I want to make it work but I don't trust him. I am still so angry with him.

I tell him every day I wish I could go back to the first affair. I wish I had found out about it so I could have divorced him and moved on. I feel like the 8 years after that was nothing but a lie. I feel like a fool. I am embarrassed. He begs me to forgive him. He says he will do whatever I want to make me feel secure and comfortable. I don't think I can ever forgive him. I will never trust him again.

[BTDT2012]

Sometimes infidelity is a dealbreaker. I think your feeling angry is reasonable. Concentrate on yourself and what you really want. What is he doing to prove himself trustworthy?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Trust takes a very very long time to rebuild... especially if you have infidelity ...reconcile... and have infidelity again

 

Has your husband read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda Macdonald?

 

Has he become completely transparent to you? Do you have all passwords and a daily itinerary telling you his whereabouts at all times?

 

Is he in therapy?

 

What it he doing to prove to you that he is worth yet another chance?

 

Until he makes you feel safe in the relationship again.. trust cannot be rebuilt.

[mikeylo]

So when he was banging other women, he was getting you also pregnant? Has he got any other women pregnant?

 

What has he done to regain your trust? It's not about you not trusting him anymore. You did your part. It's all on him now.

 

Change : I don't trust him to he is not trustworthy and isn't doing much to regain.

You don't feel secure to he isn't providing security.

 

What kind of role model is he to your children? What is he teaching his kids ?

[Zenstudent]

There are only a few things in life that you should really trust. Constant change and human imperfection would be at the top of my list. And the fact that humans act in their own interest and chase their own desires are close competitors.

 

I only trust that nothing and no one can be trusted 100%. Infidelity taught me that, and so far it has served me well. I haven't been disappointed since.

 

You might want to have a look at your expectations.

[LargoLagg]

I really don't understand your husband. If he truly had a change of heart, and was truly repentant, and his goal was for you to be happy, he should have carried this burden (and it would be a burden if he was truly repentant) on his own, and proved his devotion to you every day thereafter without burdening you with exposing this hidden stain on your marriage.

 

I know what some people will say - it's not a real marriage unless the spouse knows everything!

 

But all voluntary disclosure after doing a 180 serves to do is introduce mistrust to the relationship. Now the BS wants a schedule, stories, passwords, itineraries and geo-locators and all the other trappings of mistrust. They struggle and wonder what went wrong, and wonder if they are doing the right thing by staying. For years, they are angry and miserable, whether they choose to stay or not. The future is uncertain too, because the original level of trust is never regained. In the back of their minds, there's the memory of betrayal lurking around, and the suspicion that it could happen again.

 

I'm not saying that the BS doesn't have a right to know. Of course they do, but that bridge has been crossed already. It might also technically be the right thing to do, but it sure seems more like a good way to screw up your spouse's life, and to take that one final action to make it even more miserable.

 

So, here's my question, OP:

 

Let's stipulate that your husband is sincere. He regrets what he did, and he'll never ever entertain the idea of cheating again. From now to the end of time, he's the trustworthy husband you thought he was.

 

Given that, and given how you feel now, would you still want to know?

[Mrs. John Adams]

No one WANTS to know... they would rather it had never happened...

 

It isn't a matter wanting to know... this is about having the RIGHT to know.

 

If you have a terrible disease do you want to be told?

 

A cheater makes decisions for the couple without the knowledge of the betrayed. Don't you think then that if reconciliation is a possibility that the betrayed should get the right whether or not to choose it?

 

Does the cheater get to continue to make all the decisions regarding the relationship? Or is it fair that some decisions affecting them should be made mutually?

 

There are no guarantees in life.. no guarantees in marriages.. it's a crap shoot... but I would at least like to know if the odds are in my favor.

 

If infidelity is swept under the rug ... how can the marriage improve? How can changes be made?

 

Does it happen? Yes I have a friend that is yet again cheating on his wife. She has told him she doesn't want to know. So she doesn't hold him accountable and it is was too much fun to cheat.

 

I would rather know and decide what is best for me than to live a lie

[katielee]

 

 

 

Given that, and given how you feel now, would you still want to know?

 

I would.

She has a right to know so she can make decisions about her life.

[LargoLagg]

No one WANTS to know... they would rather it had never happened...

 

It isn't a matter wanting to know... this is about having the RIGHT to know.

Yes, I already said that

 

If you have a terrible disease do you want to be told?

What if I had a terrible disease, but it was miraculously cured and I could not get this disease again. Would I want to know? Or would I now have one additional and needless worry that it might happen again?

 

 

A cheater makes decisions for the couple without the knowledge of the betrayed. Don't you think then that if reconciliation is a possibility that the betrayed should get the right whether or not to choose it?

Again, to be clear, I concede the RIGHT to know. I'm asking about desire.

 

Does the cheater get to continue to make all the decisions regarding the relationship?

Once a cheater, always a cheater? Or does that label go away once the disclosure is made?

Or is it fair that some decisions affecting them should be made mutually?

I suppose that is part of what I'm asking.

 

There are no guarantees in life.. no guarantees in marriages.. it's a crap shoot... but I would at least like to know if the odds are in my favor.

 

If infidelity is swept under the rug ... how can the marriage improve?

That's a softball. The marriage improves because the husband stops cheating of his own volition, and gets his mind right.

How can changes be made?

Doesn't the change come from the cheater? Why should a BS change at all? She might want to embark on her own path of self-improvement for the sake of the marriage, but to say that she needs to do this or that as a result of disclosure validates the cheating in some way.

 

Does it happen? Yes I have a friend that is yet again cheating on his wife.

That wasn't the hypothetical. You're answering a question that was not asked.

She has told him she doesn't want to know. So she doesn't hold him accountable and it is was too much fun to cheat.

 

I would rather know and decide what is best for me than to live a lie

Fair enough, but it is difficult to reconcile your desire for years of struggle with the outcome you seek, assuming your H acted in good faith, and his behavior would have been no different.

 

So maybe there's a different way of asking it. What's the goal? What is that outcome you seek? Happiness in marriage? Trust? Or is the allegiance to the truth most important, and everything else, including mistrust and misery, flows from that? I don't know. I might to be one of those people who doesn't want to know. Then when I imagine that I actually would want to know, but I'm trying to figure out why. Why would I want to ruin something that would henceforth be exactly what I wanted?

 

I'm just asking.

[mikeylo]

Thats an absurd question !

 

The cheater can keep cheating , having their cake and eat it too for the rest of their lives and the cheated on keeps living a lie for their rest of their lives ? Who gave that right to the cheater?

 

Duh.

[Hefooledme]

I would.

She has a right to know so she can make decisions about her life.

 

Exactly...I wish I had known. During the first affair I was in graduate school getting a professional degree. I was young. l could have had any number of guys. I was hit on all the time. I had so many options and chose to be the faithful wife while he was running around. I was so busy with school I didn't notice. He took my choice away.

I certainly wouldn't have chosen to stay with a cheater.

[LargoLagg]

Thats an absurd question !

 

The cheater can keep cheating , having their cake and eat it too for the rest of their lives and the cheated on keeps living a lie for their rest of their lives ? Who gave that right to the cheater?

 

Duh.

I don't think you understood the question at all. Try reading it again.

[LargoLagg]

Exactly...I wish I had known. During the first affair I was in graduate school getting a professional degree. I was young. l could have had any number of guys. I was hit on all the time. I had so many options and chose to be the faithful wife while he was running around. I was so busy with school I didn't notice. He took my choice away.

I certainly wouldn't have chosen to stay with a cheater.

There is one answer that i can understand:

 

I want to know so I could leave him.

 

I get that. But I'm asking the OP who stayed, that's the question. So, to amplify my point, you said two things:

 

1) during the first affair, which tells me your H was never truly repentant

2) you wanted to choose, not him. What was your choice?

 

If I were ever told, I would divorce, no matter the circumstances and the level of remorse. The reason would be because there could never be complete trust again. I could probably forgive, but that wouldn't be enough for me. I wouldn't want the sword of Damocles hanging over my head. But, if I was never told, and she was the perfect wife going forward? Not sure what I've gained by knowing. I guess that's what I'm saying, or rather, what I'm asking. For me, it's a hypothetical. For some of you, it's real life, and that makes a difference.

Edited December 13, 2016 by LargoLagg

[Hefooledme]

Trust takes a very very long time to rebuild... especially if you have infidelity ...reconcile... and have infidelity again

 

Has your husband read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda Macdonald?

 

Has he become completely transparent to you? Do you have all passwords and a daily itinerary telling you his whereabouts at all times?

 

Is he in therapy?

 

What it he doing to prove to you that he is worth yet another chance?

 

Until he makes you feel safe in the relationship again.. trust cannot be rebuilt.

 

I have complete access to everything but honestly I rarely look. The times I've looked I didn't find anything but I'm not very tech savvy so I'm sure there is a way to hide stuff.

 

He spends all his free time at home, no longer travels for work (he last cheated physically on a business trip 3 years ago). He calls me on his lunch breaks (he spent time with these women during his lunch breaks).

 

I noticed a big change in him after the last business trip 3 years ago where he had a one night stand. When he came home from that trip he started spending more time with the family, he was more helpful with the kids and more attentive to me. Apparently that is when he started changing himself. He has been a better husband ever since. He told me everything a year ago because apparently it was bothering him so much. He started reading the bible and became much more religious during that time too.

 

I fully expect a kid to show up some day but he swears there isn't one.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well in this particular case the op says yes she would want to know...

 

And in this particular case her husband obviously did not hold himself accountable and improve himself and miraculously become the ideal husband.

 

Can it happen? Sure

does it happen? sure

 

I would still want to know because I would want to make decisions about my relationship based on truth.

 

There is of course no one answer fits all.

 

Maybe there are some who would indeed not want to know...but then if they don't know ... they can't really answer the question either

[katielee]

He's going to have do the trustworthy action 10,000 times until you start to feel it. And even then, you'll never have it 100%, IMO. I don't and it's been 5 years and 7 years for hubby, who also doesn't trust 100%.

However, you will take that mistrust to another relationship. So, if the WS is doing everything they can, you have a history together, you love your life together, there are children and you love EACH OTHER, then why not try to make it work?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have complete access to everything but honestly I rarely look. The times I've looked I didn't find anything but I'm not very tech savvy so I'm sure there is a way to hide stuff.

 

He spends all his free time at home, no longer travels for work (he last cheated physically on a business trip 3 years ago). He calls me on his lunch breaks (he spent time with these women during his lunch breaks).

 

I noticed a big change in him after the last business trip 3 years ago where he had a one night stand. When he came home from that trip he started spending more time with the family, he was more helpful with the kids and more attentive to me. Apparently that is when he started changing himself. He has been a better husband ever since. He told me everything a year ago because apparently it was bothering him so much. He started reading the bible and became much more religious during that time too.

 

I fully expect a kid to show up some day but he swears there isn't one.

 

Would you feel comfortable asking him to read the book I suggested?

[Hefooledme]

There is one answer that i can understand:

 

I want to know so I could leave him.

 

I get that. But I'm asking the OP who stayed, that's the question. So, to amplify my point, you said two things:

 

1) during the first affair, which tells me your H was never truly repentant

2) you wanted to choose, not him. What was your choice?

 

If I were ever told, I would divorce, no matter the circumstances and the level of remorse. The reason would be because there could never be complete trust again. I could probably forgive, but that wouldn't be enough for me. I wouldn't want the sword of Damocles hanging over my head. But, if I was never told, and she was the perfect wife going forward? Not sure what I've gained by knowing. I guess that's what I'm saying, or rather, what I'm asking. For me, it's a hypothetical. For some of you, it's real life, and that makes a difference.

 

I guess I don't understand what you are asking. Are you asking why I stayed? I didn't find out about anything until a year ago. I honestly stayed because I love him and he is so remorseful. He is being so good to me now that I want it to work.

I struggle with staying though because I am afraid this is temporary and he will fall back to his old ways. I have entertained the idea of moving on and finding someone else. I am in my mid 30s, I'm fit, and I have a good career. I could support myself and my kids easily. I feel I would be able to move on and find someone else relatively easily . Part of me wants to do this and punish him. Part of me thinks I should move on now before I get too old to find someone else. The jaded part of me says all men are cheating scumbags and I will just be trading one for another.

[Hefooledme]

Would you feel comfortable asking him to read the book I suggested?

 

We read it together. Our councilor suggested it among others.

[BTDT2012]

Exactly...I wish I had known. During the first affair I was in graduate school getting a professional degree. I was young. l could have had any number of guys. I was hit on all the time. I had so many options and chose to be the faithful wife while he was running around. I was so busy with school I didn't notice. He took my choice away.

I certainly wouldn't have chosen to stay with a cheater.

You still have that choice. And I'm not saying the choice shouldn't have been taken from you.

[understand50]

I have complete access to everything but honestly I rarely look. The times I've looked I didn't find anything but I'm not very tech savvy so I'm sure there is a way to hide stuff.

 

He spends all his free time at home, no longer travels for work (he last cheated physically on a business trip 3 years ago). He calls me on his lunch breaks (he spent time with these women during his lunch breaks).

 

I noticed a big change in him after the last business trip 3 years ago where he had a one night stand. When he came home from that trip he started spending more time with the family, he was more helpful with the kids and more attentive to me. Apparently that is when he started changing himself. He has been a better husband ever since. He told me everything a year ago because apparently it was bothering him so much. He started reading the bible and became much more religious during that time too.

 

I fully expect a kid to show up some day but he swears there isn't one.

 

Hefooledme,

 

Looks like he had a moral awaking, and found he could not live his life as he had. You stated he started changing, and then confessed his past affairs and cheating. Looks like is is working on doing everything that he knows to try and make it right. Now this is not to excuse what he has done, just that instead of being caught, he has made the change on his own and then let you know his transgressions. He is working to try and redeem himself, not only for you, but himself.

 

From your point of view, I think you should give him some credit for his effort. Does not lessen the hurt and pain that you feel, nor does it make it any better in that the "fact" of his cheating happened. He was unfaithful, and has let you down. Of course you have trust issues, and to some extent you always will. You need to recognize this. Nothing you both do can change what happened, all you can do is see if he is working on true remorse, taking responsibility for hurting you and the kids, and living his life in a way as to regain your trust.

 

Everyone has the capacity to cheat, given the right circumstances. I do not believe, that "Once a cheater always a cheater" is a inviolate law. People can change. The fact he started on this path, can and should give you much hope. As Mrs JA has stated, he just may not know what to do to reassure you. Have him read the book she suggested. He will thank you, as it lays out things he can do. You should read it as well.

 

Reconciliation, is a hard thing to so. I believe it is much harder then just divorcing. Both of you must want to reconcile, and both must work at it. Your trust in him will grown as, by his actions, he earns back your trust. Remember, because of what he did, you can never give him all your trust. I would say this to a couple who has not been touched by infidelity as well. Blind trust, is not something anyone should give, no matter how much you may give your love. We are human, and as such, do things that we regret, but can never be undone.

 

As many here have stated, time will dull the pain, and help, but only if he leads a life that is faithful to you and his family. You need to see if this is working, and if he is trying to work at it. As long as you feel that your love can overcome your hurt and pain, I would advise that you keep trying. Things can get better, and will, with hard work from both of you.

 

I wish you luck........

[StormySeas]

Our situations are similar, so I'll try to be constructive. We are 6 years post affair, and 4 years post me finding out through emails/texts. We are still together. Did all of the steps that you mentioned -- counciling, read suggested books, etc. And my WH completely changed his life, fully re-dedicating himself to our family and marriage.

 

Do I trust him now?

 

No. Part of me will always wonder if something is going on, and the rest of me is too busy living my life and our life to try to monitor his phone, car, etc. For four years, we have had big ups and downs as we have tried to rebuild our lives together. He has done absolutely everything that I've asked of him and more. But it's different. Our relationship is fundamentally and forever changed. In some ways, definitely for the better. We are better communicators, he is much more cognizant of all that I do for our family, and has truly become a happy family man. While all of that is incredibly helpful in making the day-to-day part of our lives happy, there is still something missing. He isn't "my guy" anymore...I don't look at him like he hung the moon...I'm just much more realistic about everyone around me -- that we all have flaws, all make mistakes, and are fallible. But he is a wonderful father to our now two boys (one born post affair), and he is now a really really good husband. When he goes on business trips, or mentions a woman in a conversation, or we watch a tv show or movie about an affair, the history comes back and nags. It's just the way it is. There are so many triggers around us that it's impossible to erase them all. But to my husband's credit, when I trigger, and get really really mad, and bring up everything from the past, he is very contrite, apologizes, and has never once told me to move forward. He lets me grieve each and every time. And for me, I'm generally very happy. Am I as happy today as I'd be if he was the same guy today and hadn't cheated on me? Absolutely not. Because part of me died a little bit when I found out what happened. A little bit of my spirit got dampened. And I don't think those are ever coming back, whether I'm with him or not.

 

Many of the books that I read said that it would take 5 years or more to really feel like you'd sort of moved on. I think that's a realistic time horizon -- again, not to get past what happened, but to be able to sort of accept it as a chapter of life and not much more. But how your husband treats you each and every day is really going to matter. There will be days when you kick yourself for staying. There will be days when you wonder if your kids knew if they would be disappointed in you staying. You wonder if you made the strong decision or the weak decision to stay. You wonder what would have happened if you'd left. You think about what you could have done differently. You worry about finding out that you were an idiot and it continued.

 

For me, the moments of absolute happiness that I have now individually with my husband, or collectively with our family, makes all of the mental baggage very worth it. But I have such an appreciation that for some people, it isn't worth it. And for some people, staying is unfathomable. No situation is the same, and no couple going through the situation are the same. But for me, time has helped. Time plus my husband's daily actions have helped. And for me, I remember the vows that I made every single day. I have not broken my vows, and just because he broke his doesn't mean I want to break mine.

 

It sounds like you both are doing the right things...don't be hard on yourself. Keep taking things day by day and see what happens. The good news is that you can decide to stay today and leave tomorrow. You never lose the right to change your mind.

[aileD]

Some people have the ability within themselves to truly get over an affair. And some don't.

 

Whichever one you are doesn't make you a good or bad or healthy or unhealthy person.

 

It's ok if you can't get over it.

 

Reconciliation can take 2-5 years or more of intense counseling and introspection and work. Do you have it in you?

 

Make a list of all the things that work about your relationship and all the things that don't. Are there any deal breakers?

 

Our counselor gave us a piece of paper folded on half .....one one side we had to write what we would need from our spouse if we were to stay together, and on the other side what we would need if we broke up.

 

It was kind of an eye openener to us. What we could live with and what we couldn't live with and where it was on the spectrum.

 

If trust is #1 for you all the other stuff isnt going to matter

 

We are about four months in to R and everything is still hard. I do have worries if he isn't home on time or in a work meeting and not answering texts. H is willing To work with me on those things for now...he'll let me know when going into a meeting, he records his phone calls, has GPS on his phone, open book...he understands I will have trust issues for awhile and is proactive in helping to alleviate triggers before they happen

 

If you can't get over this, it's ok. It doesn't make you a bad person

Edited December 13, 2016 by aileD

[Mrs. John Adams]

We are all wired differently...so there is certainly no one size fits all.

 

I understand the you that loves him....the you that will always love him...wants to badly to trust him again.

 

And the you that is logical says but i trusted him once and he hurt me...will he hurt me again?

 

It sure sounds to me as an outsider like your husband is doing everything he can to show you that he loves you and that he has changed in his soul. I totally and completely understand....and only because i have walked a similar path...it is easy for me to say...TRUST HIM.

 

But you have to be true to you....and you have to do what is best for you....sometimes the best answer is divorce and sometimes it is reconciliation...and only you can decide the one that is right for you.

 

They say it take 2-5 years to heal from infidelity...I say it takes a lifetime.

 

I am not a gambling person...but OP...I am really liking the things you are saying about your husband....and it would be hard for me to bet against him.

 

I bet if you told him what you said here...he would do everything he could to make you feel safer....and when push comes to shove...that's really all you can ask for. You see his heart....you see his actions....and you see his love. Is it enough for you to let go and let love?

 

Best of luck to the both of you....I am betting you are gong to make it.

[BTDT2012]

OP, one think I have learned and accepted is that there is nothing that he can do to 'make up' for what he did. He can't unring that bell. Give yourself permission to leave the marriage, then decide whether you want to stay in the marriage. Does the good outweigh the bad. As another poster said, there is no one right answer.