I'm still unfortunate.

[LightWave93]

I've spent awhile away from internet forums talking about my problems with dating as it got to the point where it was the only thing I was concerned about. I already had other things going on in my life so it may not seem like a long time for a break, but these past few months I've managed to achieve a lot so I've done the whole "self-improvement" thing. To summarize;

 

- 23 year old Male student who has previously dated, one long-term and one short.

 

- Aside from the above experiences, no success with women. No hints, no casual sex, no dates, no luck with online dating/Tinder.

 

- Described as "Tall, dark and handsome", specifically 5'11 with a slim build. I've also been called "hot" and "cute", and if I get rated it's usually an 8.

 

- I work five jobs, all of which involve me meeting and interacting with other people. Most of them are volunteering work and I'm my own boss, so I can choose my own hours (just clarifying in case anyone asks how I have the time ).

 

- Personality wise is a bit of a mixture. My background is that I used to be extremely shy, not confident, hated myself etc to the point where I rarely went out nor could I make eye-contact (difficult upbringing). For a few years now I've gotten much better, and since starting university over a year ago I've gained confidence, self-esteem etc. I'm quite mature, intelligent (getting really good grades right now), I have a good work ethic and strive to achieve my very best. I can be funny, people seem to enjoy being around me, and I've been told I'm really awesome, friendly, etc. I'd like to think I strike a good balance with my personality.

 

- I have an active social life with a lot of friends (albeit I don't fit in with the "popular" kids that seem to get drunk 24/7, and without trying to sound judgmental and for what it's worth...for whatever reason the women I hang out with aren't the most conventionally attractive). I tend to be the "leader" of my groups. I go out every so often, but the club scene was beginning to frustrate me due to witnessing everyone else seeming to get lucky.

 

- I do have depression, but I've been on anti-depressants for about five months now so I have improved quite drastically, and I also underwent therapy for a year.

 

- Other things include that I work out (still slim build, but I've toned up and people have noticed) and I have quite a lot of hobbies (art, hiking, writing etc).

 

- Whenever I talk about this with friends, family, or sometimes people on the internet they are always astounded I can't find any success. It's sort of nice to hear, but also makes me feel like a bit of an anomaly.

 

That's all I can think of right now and usually what I get asked about.

 

So yeah, presently I have 0 luck with women. I'm tired of seeing and hearing about people younger than me with double-digit sexual partners, getting many matches on Tinder and regularly pulling on a night-out. Then there's me, who can dress/smell his best and yet I have never witnessed a woman so much as glance in my direction. Never had a woman try to dance with me or give me a smile. Needless to say I've never been approached directly.

 

Not going to get too worked up in this discussion. As sad as it may sound at this point I've more or less just given up and accepted I'll be undesirable for the rest of my life. I have been told I'm the type of guy who will probably find success later on in life, but my way of thinking is that the only thing that will have changed is me being a career, nice house, car etc...and it's that's the only thing that gives me any value then, sod it, I'll stick to riding solo. I don't wish to sound bitter, it just sucks everyone else gets to have their fun and experiences bar myself.

 

Advice?

[Weezy1973]

Are you looking for casual sex or a meaningful relationship? And when you say no luck, what do you mean? With all your working and school, how much time do you spend getting to meet new people?

[LightWave93]

Are you looking for casual sex or a meaningful relationship? And when you say no luck, what do you mean? With all your working and school, how much time do you spend getting to meet new people?

 

I'd prefer a relationship, but at this point I'd take anything. I'm not desperate nor do I mind being solo, it's this idea of being undesirable that bothers me so much; at university, generally speaking, people have options. I however have none.

 

Well, like I described, I don't get approached or even looked at so if it weren't for people's reassurances I would have easily labelled me as ugly as f*ck. I don't have difficulty speaking to women, in fact a lot of my good friends are female, but if I meet someone new there's never any signs that they are interested and I'd say 90% of the time I don't develop any sort of a relationship with them (friend, acquaintance etc). I do approach women myself, in fact I met a lot more in the past few months I did during my first year at university, but still...nothing. 'n like I said, I have no fortune whatsoever in a club, and I've been told I'm one of the more attractive/better dressed guys there. As I also said, I have no "conventionally attractive" women in my life, and whilst I'm certainly not looking for a supermodel seeing people within my social circle friends/getting intimate with/dating attractive females is a bit of a downer for me.

 

As for how much time, generally speaking I'll go out clubbing once a week (although I've cut down recently), sometimes more if there's a special occasion. Otherwise I take part in volunteering activities, chat to people online, attend society events etc. So, quite a lot of time really. Going by Facebook I've met 70 people within the past two months, and most of those were women.

[Weezy1973]

OK, well I know the word gets thrown around a lot, but I will say it again. It's confidence.

 

But I also don't think many people know what is meant by the word confident. It means being comfortable with who you are, living by your core values, and knowing that you're worthy of being loved.

 

It has nothing to do with looks, education, money, charisma, hobbies and interests etc. In other words, you're focusing on the wrong things.

 

You are very focused on external validation and that is the first sign that you don't have confidence. When you're confident, you stop fearing rejection and failure, and you stop worrying what other people think of you. When I was your age, I was very similar though, so I do understand what you're going through.

 

And don't think having confidence is going to magically have women throwing themselves at you. It won't. But it will have you taking bigger risks and stepping out of your comfort zone which will lead to success (even if the road is paved with rejection and failure).

 

When you meet a woman you're find attractive, get to know her a bit. If you seem to have a good conversation ask her out on a date. If she's interested you get a date! If she's not interested you get more time to pursue other women that might be interested! Win / win!

[Satu]

23 years old with one long-term, and 1 short-term relationship doesn't add up to a lack of success or experience.

 

23, and 10 relationships, would be more worrying

 

 

Take care.

[preraph]

I'm wondering if there is something you're subconsciously doing that makes you appear inaccessible or doesn't give off an "easy to approach" vibe. I think the best way to find out is to frankly ask a couple of your friend who go clubbing with you, maybe one male and one female. Say "Hey, I feel I'm reasonably outgoing and attractive, but no one approaches me. Am I making a funny face? Do I look stuck up? Do I say something with a tone that turns people off? There has to be something. I am female, and I used to look intimidating, some guy friend finally told me. I just needed to open my face up, raise my eyebrows and smile more! Someone will know what it is. Maybe you dress worse than you think or clothes don't fit or you have dandruff, which granted wouldn't stop everyone, but you know what I mean. Ask someone and don't let them get off on a tangent but make sure they honestly answer your question. If you have to refocus them, say, "But if you HAD to find fault with me that would put women off, what would it be?"

 

Good luck.

[LightWave93]

OK, well I know the word gets thrown around a lot, but I will say it again. It's confidence.

 

But I also don't think many people know what is meant by the word confident. It means being comfortable with who you are, living by your core values, and knowing that you're worthy of being loved.

 

It has nothing to do with looks, education, money, charisma, hobbies and interests etc. In other words, you're focusing on the wrong things.

 

You are very focused on external validation and that is the first sign that you don't have confidence. When you're confident, you stop fearing rejection and failure, and you stop worrying what other people think of you. When I was your age, I was very similar though, so I do understand what you're going through.

 

I am aware this, and although I'm not the most confident of individuals I am certainly a helluva lot better than I was a few years ago.

 

My "focus" on external validation is not so much because I *need* it, but because I would like to understand what I'm doing wrong. See my reply to preraph for more info.

 

23 years old with one long-term, and 1 short-term relationship doesn't add up to a lack of success or experience.

 

23, and 10 relationships, would be more worrying

 

 

Take care.

 

I suppose it depends what one's standards are, but when you're in an environment where people are snatching dates, engaging in casual sex etc etc on a daily basis, it's hard not to feel left out.

 

I'm wondering if there is something you're subconsciously doing that makes you appear inaccessible or doesn't give off an "easy to approach" vibe. I think the best way to find out is to frankly ask a couple of your friend who go clubbing with you, maybe one male and one female. Say "Hey, I feel I'm reasonably outgoing and attractive, but no one approaches me. Am I making a funny face? Do I look stuck up? Do I say something with a tone that turns people off? There has to be something. I am female, and I used to look intimidating, some guy friend finally told me. I just needed to open my face up, raise my eyebrows and smile more! Someone will know what it is. Maybe you dress worse than you think or clothes don't fit or you have dandruff, which granted wouldn't stop everyone, but you know what I mean. Ask someone and don't let them get off on a tangent but make sure they honestly answer your question. If you have to refocus them, say, "But if you HAD to find fault with me that would put women off, what would it be?"

 

Good luck.

 

I don't mean to dispute what you are saying, but believe me when I say I've tried. I must have asked close to 30-40 people in my life what I may be doing wrong, and they all echo what I mentioned in my OP (attractive, friendly, funny etc). I've spoken to over 100 people about this by now across the board, and there's been no progress despite assurances that I'm "fine". Even hired a dating coach for awhile to no avail. Honestly, I think I am one of the better dressed people on these nights out etc, and I certainly keep good hygiene.

[Weezy1973]

My "focus" on external validation is not so much because I *need* it, but because I would like to understand what I'm doing wrong. See my reply to preraph for more info.

 

You're not doing anything wrong externally; what you struggle with is internal. Stop thinking about how you present to others. Stop thinking about others at all. What they think of you really doesn't matter.

 

Honest questions:

 

How did you meet your first girlfriend?

How many women do you ask out on dates every week?

 

I suppose it depends what one's standards are, but when you're in an environment where people are snatching dates, engaging in casual sex etc etc on a daily basis, it's hard not to feel left out.

 

If you want to have casual sex, just ask women that are considerably less physically attractive than you. Women aren`t really shy in admitting that when it comes to meaningless sex, all they really care about is looks...but that means you have to be much better looking than them to qualify...

 

 

I don't mean to dispute what you are saying, but believe me when I say I've tried. I must have asked close to 30-40 people in my life what I may be doing wrong, and they all echo what I mentioned in my OP (attractive, friendly, funny etc). I've spoken to over 100 people about this by now across the board, and there's been no progress despite assurances that I'm "fine". Even hired a dating coach for awhile to no avail. Honestly, I think I am one of the better dressed people on these nights out etc, and I certainly keep good hygiene.

 

You are fine. Your problems with women are in your head. Your expectations are skewed and you are comparing yourself to other people instead of just being content with who you are. Lack of confidence.

[DarrenB]

You've got ALOT of years left in you, before you should even begin to worry about such things.

 

Use those attributes that you have and use them to your advantage, but do also remain to be wise and chivalrous in the process

[CommittedToThis]

Once again, to me the title of the post really says it all, the Reader's Digest condensed version.

 

"I'm still unfortunate."

 

Young man, if this is how you truly feel about yourself, please understand that this is the message you are projecting to the world at large: you are unfortunate.

 

Does it come as a surprise it's not getting you anywhere in terms of meeting women for romantic interests?

 

Keep working on loving yourself and, hey, it can't hurt to YouTube some pick-up artist videos (both male and female approaches) and self-esteem exercise videos, meditations, etc.

 

When your first instinct is to think, "I'm fortunate," that's when I predict things will begin to turn around for you.

 

It's on you to get there, or not. It sounds like otherwise you have a bitchin' life going on, congrats on that. I have a feeling you're gonna get there in due time.

[Satu]

I think your (real or imagined) problem stems from how you see yourself.

 

You're not comfortable with who you are.

 

One good way of working on that is journalling, because its like looking at your mind in a mirror.

 

Recommended.

 

 

Take care.

[LightWave93]

I must say, I'm disappointed that already my issue is being "lesser" because of my youth or this perceived notion that it is all in my head.

 

Believe me, I have done A LOT of research on this. I've been on tons of internet forums, Reddit, spoken to four mental health professionals. I am not one step closer to solving this.

 

Honest questions:

 

How did you meet your first girlfriend?

How many women do you ask out on dates every week?

 

Internet forum. We just got talking (I initiated).

Presently? None. I've completely come off Tinder, OkCupid, POF because I quite literally had ZERO success on those, and for about two months I've just focused on myself, work, friends and family. I still attend social events and do meet people, but few females as of recent.

 

If you want to have casual sex, just ask women that are considerably less physically attractive than you.

 

"Hey, can we have sex?"

 

I can't even get matches on Tinder, perhaps one of the most superficial places there is, not to mind women just not paying me attention in general.

 

You are fine. Your problems with women are in your head. Your expectations are skewed and you are comparing yourself to other people instead of just being content with who you are.

 

My problems are not in my head, I can assure you.

 

How are my expectations skewed? Whilst I certainly don't wish to live up to anyone's standards but my own, here are the facts;

 

- People I know who are less emotionally stable, less attractive, less fit, have no confidence at all etc are getting laid.

 

- With all my positive attributes, I am not.

 

You've got ALOT of years left in you, before you should even begin to worry about such things.

 

On the one side of the coin that's true and I'm not in any rush.

 

On the other side of the coin, why can I have similar experiences to that of my peers? I'm fed up of frequently websites and reading up on everyone's sex/romantic lives, or listening to one of my peer's stories. For lack of a better word, it's demoralizing.

 

Keep working on loving yourself and, hey, it can't hurt to YouTube some pick-up artist videos (both male and female approaches) and self-esteem exercise videos, meditations, etc.

 

Done. I spent an entire year doing it. Trust me, it brought me no closer. Besides, who said I don't love myself? I used the thread title to start a discussion, but I am indeed unfortunate when it comes to dating.

 

When your first instinct is to think, "I'm fortunate," that's when I predict things will begin to turn around for you.

 

It's on you to get there, or not. It sounds like otherwise you have a bitchin' life going on, congrats on that. I have a feeling you're gonna get there in due time.

 

I think your (real or imagined) problem stems from how you see yourself.

 

You're not comfortable with who you are.

 

One good way of working on that is journalling, because its like looking at your mind in a mirror.

 

My problems are real, and I am comfortable with who I am.

 

I do journal, online as well so people can provide me feedback.

[SwordofFlame]

What advice did you get from the dating coach? Do you at least get real matches on apps like Tinder? If not, than it's your looks I'm afraid.

[LightWave93]

What advice did you get from the dating coach? Do you at least get real matches on apps like Tinder? If not, than it's your looks I'm afraid.

 

I will briefly post a few photos if you assure me you can read this thread within the next 5-10 minutes?

 

No matches on Tinder.

The dating coach said I was a confident speaker and my style was fine, my body posture was spot-on, looks were not a problem, I had the right attitude etc.

[SwordofFlame]

Don't bother posting pics. I'm guessing your problem is that at your age, women tend to be very superficial. The fact that you don't hang out with the "cool kids" hurts you. You mention that you're the "leader" of your group of friends, which is attractive. However, I get the feeling that you may be the most attractive person in your group of friends because you also mention that the women aren't conventionally attractive. Perhaps your standards are too high? We tend to attract and get along with people that have similar levels of attractiveness. That's why attractive people often have attractive friends. And by attractive I don't limit that just to physical looks but everything else too.

[Satu]

You seem to have a complex about your attractiveness to women.

 

"A complex is a core pattern of emotions, memories, perceptions, and wishes in the personal unconscious organised around a common theme, such as power or status. Primarily a psychoanalytic term, it is found extensively in the works of Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud.

 

An example of a complex would be as follows: if you had a leg amputated when you were a child, this would influence your life in profound ways, even if you overcame the physical handicap. You may have many thoughts, emotions, memories, feelings of inferiority, triumphs, bitterness and determinations centering on that one aspect of your life. If these thoughts were troubling and pervasive, Jung might say you had a complex about the leg."

 

ymmv.

 

 

Take care.

[LightWave93]

Forums - Album on Imgur

 

I'll leave them up for a little bit.

 

The fact that you don't hang out with the "cool kids" hurts you.

 

No it doesn't? Just mentioned as, at least in my university, most women tend to hang around with the more popular crowd.

 

Perhaps your standards are too high?

 

Nope, I like a large variety of different women.

 

You seem to have a complex about your attractiveness to women.

 

Is it wrong to wish to experience dating? Or sex? Or be in a relationship?

 

No? Then why can't I seek advice on my inability to attract women, without it being labelled as a "complex" or some sort of mental health issue?

[Satu]

A 'complex' is a situation in someone's psyche, where a great deal of focus and mental energy is clustered around one particular issue or 'object.'

 

Is that concept offensive to you?

[thecrucible]

There's nothing wrong with how you look. I'm sure many girls would find you attractive. What kind of girls do you go for? Do you ever go for the quiet girls? Where do you meet girls? Is it on nights out mainly?

[LightWave93]

A 'complex' is a situation in someone's psyche, where a great deal of focus and mental energy is clustered around one particular issue or 'object.'

 

Is that concept offensive to you?

 

No, but neither does it help with my problem.

 

As I said, I spent awhile researching etc to find a solution. I didn't, so I gave up. I've spent a few months not worrying about it at all, focused on other things in my life. This section of the forum seemed more active recently so I wanted the perspective of new people, hence starting the thread.

 

There's nothing wrong with how you look. I'm sure many girls would find you attractive. What kind of girls do you go for? Do you ever go for the quiet girls? Where do you meet girls? Is it on nights out mainly?

 

I do an awful lot of volunteer work where I interact with hundreds if not thousands of students.

I'm interested in a variety of girls. Shy girls are sweet, but I don't mind career-oriented girls, intelligent girls, geeky girls, confident girls...so long as they're gold diggers, attention seekers, partying 24/7 etc I'm happy.

Most recent girls I've met at society events and parties. I've never met anyone out in a club.

[sickoflove11]

I'm a 23 year old female and feel similar to you.. I'm definitely not as confident about my looks as you seem to be, but I know I am not bad looking. I can't really give you any advice as I feel worse off than you are. I went on a few dates with the dating apps but they weren't for me. I go to work and the gym so my interactions are very limited. I don't know why it's so hard to find a relationship. It could be us, it could be our age, the generation we are growing up in. I wish it were easier.

[thecrucible]

I do an awful lot of volunteer work where I interact with hundreds if not thousands of students.

 

 

I'm interested in a variety of girls. Shy girls are sweet, but I don't mind career-oriented girls, intelligent girls, geeky girls, confident girls...so long as they're gold diggers, attention seekers, partying 24/7 etc I'm happy.

Most recent girls I've met at society events and parties. I've never met anyone out in a club.

 

So it sounds you're meeting women in the right places. That's great. The one thing I will say just based on your initial post, is that I don't think you should read too much into girls not approaching you. I don't think women do that too much anyway. I mean I certainly don't and if I do, it's not generally a guy I find good looking immediately as I just get too shy and/or I don't want to blow my chances by seeming too keen. A girl I know approaches guys a lot but she likes the attention and wants them to buy her drinks.

 

I'm thinking of places I've met boyfriends in the past - met a boyfriend once through a female friend (this is why it's good to know get friendly with girls even if they're not your type as you can get to know her friends); met another boyfriend in the library using my friend as wingwoman so I could start a conversation without looking too creepy haha; met another boyfriend when I went on a date with his friend and he bumped into us while we were out (I kinda deserved that not working out). I don't know but maybe that gives you a few ideas. Also I use online dating and while I'm not a great fan of it, I feel like I've learned from the dates I've been on and upped my game.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Your problem is not being unattractive.

 

Your problem is feeling sorry for yourself, a problem that 95% of the people on this forum, yours truly included, have experienced.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say you are age 23 and have had 2 relationships? So ... you're good. Women like you.

 

In terms of however much attention and @ss your friends get compared to you, don't play that game. Life is only as much as a competition as you make it.

[LargoLagg]

Advice?

I'd counsel you to face facts. One of these two things is wrong:

Described as "Tall, dark and handsome", specifically 5'11 with a slim build. I've also been called "hot" and "cute", and if I get rated it's usually an 8.

I have never witnessed a woman so much as glance in my direction. Never had a woman try to dance with me or give me a smile. Needless to say I've never been approached directly.

It stands to reason that it is the first one, or you wouldn't be here. Who described you that way, your mom?

 

Seriously, those two things don't compute.

[LightWave93]

So it sounds you're meeting women in the right places. That's great. The one thing I will say just based on your initial post, is that I don't think you should read too much into girls not approaching you. I don't think women do that too much anyway. I mean I certainly don't and if I do, it's not generally a guy I find good looking immediately as I just get too shy and/or I don't want to blow my chances by seeming too keen. A girl I know approaches guys a lot but she likes the attention and wants them to buy her drinks.

 

I'm thinking of places I've met boyfriends in the past - met a boyfriend once through a female friend (this is why it's good to know get friendly with girls even if they're not your type as you can get to know her friends); met another boyfriend in the library using my friend as wingwoman so I could start a conversation without looking too creepy haha; met another boyfriend when I went on a date with his friend and he bumped into us while we were out (I kinda deserved that not working out). I don't know but maybe that gives you a few ideas. Also I use online dating and while I'm not a great fan of it, I feel like I've learned from the dates I've been on and upped my game.

 

To be fair, as much as I appreciate your post it can be summarized as "I'm a woman and I have more opportunities presented to me".

 

Us men aren't so lucky.

 

Your problem is feeling sorry for yourself, a problem that 95% of the people on this forum, yours truly included, have experienced.

 

No matches on Tinder or replies back on OkCupid, POF etc as well as no girl expressing an interest during almost two years at university beg to differ.

 

It is not an attitude problem.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say you are age 23 and have had 2 relationships? So ... you're good. Women like you.

 

Both were utter nutjobs, my long-term lying about me to justify getting with someone else and the other a brief one-month fling because it was the only person I could get. I would hardly count those as quality experiences.

 

In terms of however much attention and @ss your friends get compared to you, don't play that game. Life is only as much as a competition as you make it.

 

University life is a time to experience such things as dating. By comparison, I guarantee I could come back here in ten, twenty years time saying I haven't dated and being told that I've missed out not having such experiences when I was younger. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Besides, these experiences are ones I wish to have.

 

It stands to reason that it is the first one, or you wouldn't be here. Who described you that way, your mom?

 

Seriously, those two things don't compute.

 

I assume you meant second?

 

Anyway, the first quote is feedback I've gathered since trying to discover what my problem is. That's asking friends, family, people on the internet. As much as I don't wish to "boast" about it, the simple fact is I have been told time, and time, and time, and time again that I am attractive. Trust me, I don't believe it because the reality of my experiences don't match up with what people tell me (as well as "You're a catch", "You could easily get a date" etc).