about fantasy

[Toni_no12002]

thanks i dont exactly fly off the handle when i tlk to him about stuff like that but i just end up crying.i feel upset if he looks at someone down the street also on tv i kept asking if he prefered her (whoever it was at the time)his answers was always no but its got to the point now where if theres some women on the tv half dressed he changes channels,because ill just start getting upset again!pathetic i know but i cant help it guess im just insecure!

[LucreziaBorgia]

Have you considered finding someone you can talk to about this? Insecurity can gut your life in many ways - not just with the situation you speaking of.

[Toni_no12002]

im talking to a counsellor online but i dont really know if its going to help.im scared of what people will think off me so i dared go to my doctor.imnot sure if you have to pay.is this an american site because i live in the uk so im not sure if everythings the same regarding councelling fees etc

[ollydolly]

Toni and Lucrezia

 

I'm not a very insecure person on the whole and I like myself a lot. If I'm in a room full of women I know I stand out - I'm either confident or deluded!! I don't think insecurity is truly the issue here.

 

I don't like the idea of my partner fantasizing about other women because I thought the point of committing to a lover was that they were the in the flesh fulfillment of what had once been an Anima fantasy? My partner has told me in no uncertain terms that I am his IDEAL woman from my smile to my figure to my intelligence ... therefore why would someone have what they consider ideal IN REALITY... but still be fantasizing about something else in their imagination?

 

As you may or may not remember Lucrezia, my partner was a porn addict which means that fantasy was a large part of his existence. But he will say himself now that the desire to masturbate and fantasize over so many women came from a desperate and wounded part of his ego. Since therapy etc... and having come to understand himself, he now sees fantasy as kind of childish, like when you are driving your ultimate BMW and know it's quality, you don't wish you were still driving a nicely painted Honda, or even another BMW anymore.

 

If I am blatantly incorrect in my thinking here I'm prepared to accept a different truth, but you say EVERYBODY fantasizes about other people.... Well I don't, even in my imagination I masturbate while conjuring up images of what turns me on the most and it is always memories of my partner - the things he does to me, the things I know he knows will make me orgasm, our latest horny position... whatever.... but that's why he's my partner because he is better than any fantasy I've ever had.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Its good to hear that you have such a strong sense of will. A good deal of people are at the mercy of their biology: whether it be neuro and biochemical reactions to pheromones, or addictions, or any number of things. The beauty of the brain is that the possibilities for fantasy and imagination are limitless, and limited only by those who limit themselves and expect equal limitations of their partners. I suppose weaknesses in will can open those cracks that allow biology to take over where common sense leaves off.

 

Some people have the ability to restrict the motivation for fantasy to just one person. Its a biological fact that a normal functioning brain is wired for attraction and desire and when someone doesn't have the ability to exert will over that, then natural processes kick in. Biology and pheromones are not something that will turn off for you automatically. You have to make an effort to control your thought processes so that you focus them on one person.

 

Unfortunately, a good deal of what causes people to force limitations is that their egos simply cannot handle the thought that their partners will find other people attractive, even when there is never any intention of acting on the desires in any way except in the imagination - hence, where insecurity comes in. Insecurity is a silent assassin - if it doesn't get you one way, it gets you in others.

 

Perhaps you are lucky in that insecurity is not the issue for you, so much as its an issue of control over yourself and others when it comes to ego needs. Nothing wrong with that, really as long as your partner is happy with that.

[ollydolly]

I had a sexual attraction to another man a couple days ago - it was very strong so it got my attention and I thought about what it was that I was attracted to in him, because in many ways I don't even like him!

 

But, I would not fantasize about having sex with him especially while playing with my partner. It seems mentally disloyal... even if no one ever knows - I do.

 

I don't think it's about repression so much as choice of what to give mental credence to... perhaps that is what you were saying in your post.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'd say the person who makes it a choice is much happier for it not having to be a matter of repression, that's for sure.

 

I guess I should clarify that having normal random fantasies is one thing, but having them while having sex with a partner as a replacement for or sole motivation of passion for that person is more problematic.

[ollydolly]

Problematic? That's a vague choice of word....

 

It's problematic because it's disloyal and a lot of people use fantasy exactly in this way and the masses, who do it, keep saying it's normal, healthy, acceptable and no one should be hurt by it unless their ego needs are tragically demanding due to insecurity!

 

From what I understand about intimacy, most people feel hurt by the notion that their partner is using them to masturbate on - to fantasies of other people.

[Toni_no12002]

i may sound really stupid but am i wrong to get upset by my boyfriend fantisizing over other women?to me it seems like hes cheating mentally as ollydolly said.maybe if he doesnt tell me i wont ever know but i worry that he does.am i being stupid?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Having random sexual thoughts and fantasies is NORMAL. Some people can repress them out of fear or control, others don't. It is not cheating. It is not disloyalty. It is hormonal, biological, neurochemical... in a word, normal human brain function.

 

Now... in terms of what is problematic. Here's something a little less vague, to clear things up. Here is what I consider a problem:

 

A man who can only have sex with the woman he is with, if she is facing away from him, and he has to be watching porn at the same time or having some serious fantasies going on in his head just so he can get it up. A person who needs fantasy in order to function sexually with another person suggests something a lot more problematic than a person who just has normal, random sexual fantasies and thoughts. I don't count masturbation here, because a good deal of masturbation is built on fantasies, and letting them flood the brain freely in order to enhance the experience. Masturbation is private and personal - not up for the other partner's approval or demands.

 

These normal thoughts can happen at any time, including masturbation and can range from fleeting thoughts from checking out the rear end of a slamming hot woman walking by, to just brief memories popping up, to associations one has when seeing places or things, to just good old imagining what it would be like to be with a certain woman. Men think about sex in some way, shape or form intermittently all day long. They don't have to concentrate or focus. The thoughts just come.

 

They don't do it on purpose, or to hurt you. And if they can't repress or control those thoughts just to please you, then for G_d's sake don't assume that its because they don't love you. That is the worst emotional blackmail I can think of: "If you love me, you will alter your normal brain function so that every single one of your hundreds/thousands of your sexual thoughts on a daily basis are of only me, every day, all day 24/7 in order to suit my ego needs, even during your private masturbation time - if you have a sexual thought of someone else at any time in your life while you are with me, you are a disloyal cheater and a liar."

 

I would wager a large amount of money that a guy who tells his girlfriend that he never has sexual fantasies, and when he does they are ONLY about his girlfriend is lying to avoid hurting her feelings, or simply telling her what she wants to hear in order to keep her off his case.

 

Seriously... are people so threatened that they would demand loyalty, even down to the very white matter of the brain and the chemicals controlling sexual thought? Are a person's private thoughts and fantasies really any of anyone else's business, much less something that is up for being controlled by someone else's ego needs for them? I can't imagine someone actually accusing me of being disloyal and cheating simply because I happen to have a NORMAL, random sexual thought run through my head that has nothing to do with the person I'm with. That is probably the most horrifying thing I can imagine that someone would try to do to me in a relationship.

[nicki]

As a graduate student in psychology, I learned that thoughts, feelings and behavior are linked in a linear fashion.

 

For instance, first there is a thought. If someone says something rude to us, we think "Wow, he insulted me. What a jerk."

 

From that, a feeling forms. We are mad, anxious, insecure.

 

Then, this feeling leads to a behavior. It might be that we say nothing, or walk away, or shoot back an insult of our own.

 

So, we can apply this line of reasoning to fantasy. If we fantasize about another individual, we can create feelings for that person. Then maybe we will act upon it. Maybe not, but why mentally prepare ourselves for that kind of temptation.

 

Of course, I'm talking about fantasy that concerns a known person who can be a threat, not a made-up lover. (I think a lot of us have generalized fantasies like that!)

 

If I have a fantasy about a hunky coworker, then my brain believes those images to be true. It can create desire. And desire can be acted upon. Why go there? Next time my boyfriend and i have a fight, and hunky coworker asks me out for a drink, my mind is already halfway sleeping with him!

 

This may sound extreme, but there is research to back it up. Look at how visualization can help us achieve our goals. "If you see it, you can achieve it."

 

It is better to fantasize about your partner as much as possible. It will actually create more desire the next time you see him or her.

 

Anyway, just food for thought.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm talking about fantasy that concerns a known person who can be a threat, not a faceless body.

 

I agree with you on that.

 

Having goal-directed full-blown fantasies about a specific, attainable person on a regular basis - particularly if you interact with them regularly will almost certainly lead to a crush and then actual feelings. I can see how someone would be hurt and upset by that. That is fantasy with motivation, and not just general meaningless fantasy meanderings.

 

It is better to fantasize about your partner as much as possible. It will actually create more desire the next time you see him or her.

 

I agree with that too. It is always good to incorporate fantasies about your partner in with the mix, and give them some priority. I'm still pretty terrified, though by people who make demands that they be the ONLY fantasy in their partner's mind.

[nicki]

Yes, the idea of "fantasy with motivation" makes a lot of sense. I like they way you put that.

 

I agree that we can't usually only fantasize about our partner. We need to create outlets to satisfy our need for variety.

 

Lately, I've been having the best fantasy about TWO gorgeous men in bed with me. Of course, they aren't men I know or really want to know either. Just borrowing an idea from the men. Did you know the most common male fantasy is about having two women? The fantasy women probably bring them a beer, too, after....

 

And I have plenty of naughty fantasies about my boyfriend, too. Usually these are flashbacks or memories. And they are my favorite images.

[ollydolly]

I guess Lucrezia the main point that you are driving home is that a person's mental space is their own private landscape - and for another to always want access or control of that is invasive. I agree that all individuals within a relationship must be entitled to their privacy. Thanks for sharing your perspective on this issue in such a considered fashion.

[RecordProducer]

As a graduate student in psychology, I learned that thoughts, feelings and behavior are linked in a linear fashion.

For instance, first there is a thought. If someone says something rude to us, we think "Wow, he insulted me. What a jerk."

From that, a feeling forms. We are mad, anxious, insecure.

Then, this feeling leads to a behavior. It might be that we say nothing, or walk away, or shoot back an insult of our own.

 

why mentally prepare ourselves for that kind of temptation.

Nicki, it's great to have knowledge in psychology. Now apply it. Thoughts and feelings are rather reactions that spontaneously, unintentionally, and even unconsciously arise and evolve in our minds. You may choose to not act upon your feelings no matter how strong they are. And even then they will surface in some other form.

 

You said: "If I have a fantasy about a hunky coworker, then my brain believes those images to be true. It can create desire. And desire can be acted upon. Why go there? Next time my boyfriend and i have a fight, and hunky coworker asks me out for a drink, my mind is already halfway sleeping with him!"

 

The fantasy doesn't create the desire, but vice versa. And most likely, the lousy boyfriend is the one that "forces" your mind to accept the desire. When I am perfectly happy with my guy, I don't think of other men. But at moments when I don't have faith that anything good will ever happen with us, I catch myself in a self-persuasion that other men are good too and that I can fall out of love with him and fall in love with someone else. It's certainly the line of least resistance to an existing problem. I am disappointed and want to cure it by distancing myself from my hurt feelings by introducing some light into my heart.

 

In other words, if you catch yourself fantasizing about others, it's because your current partner already gives you a hard time and your mind is trying to tell you: "He is not for you, find someone else." It's not because we are immoral or polygamous.