Gut instinct about her male colleague

[road]

Cheater's lie.

Cheater's will only confess to what you know or can prove.

Your WW is lying.

[umirano]

I still urge you not to pursue the physical cheating story line. If she did cheat physically you'll find out soon enough, if not, pursuing this without evidence will put a serious dent into things for no benefit in return.

 

You have a list of things that make their interaction look shady, and that make any partner in a romantic relationship uneasy. Does your GF know how much these things bother you? Is she willing to make you a priority over her work colleague, that is to say, is she willing to limit her interaction with this colleague to strictly work?

 

It's really not that complicated.

[crebel81]

Buddy, I wish I was wrong and maybe I am. Let me give you another impression of her tears. She knows the jig is up soon and she won't be able to screw him and also have the comfort of your blind naïve love.

 

She is gas lighting you. Maybe it is not this guy even it could be another one but I really don't think so.

 

I could go over the red flags again but it would not matter. The conclusion is still the same though. Besides, her reaction to your bungled confrontation is so classic for what cheaters do that it really tells the tale by itself.

 

See when you don't have the goods on a cheater, they get angry and defensive and tell you that you are crazy. It makes you back off and they think they are in the clear.

 

And they were using the what's up app to chat because it does not show up on the phone bill like regular texts do. They probably did it for him so that his wife could not see that on the phone bill rather than for her because you do not get to see her phone bill.

 

Now your only chance is to use the DR Fone recovery software and hope that some hard evidence is in that recovery.

 

I am sorry, I realize how hard this stuff is because I have been there.

 

They USUALLY message over Viber. Out of interest, have you experience of using Dr phone? How long do need to have her phone for in order to set it up?

[crebel81]

I still urge you not to pursue the physical cheating story line. If she did cheat physically you'll find out soon enough, if not, pursuing this without evidence will put a serious dent into things for no benefit in return.

 

You have a list of things that make their interaction look shady, and that make any partner in a romantic relationship uneasy. Does your GF know how much these things bother you? Is she willing to make you a priority over her work colleague, that is to say, is she willing to limit her interaction with this colleague to strictly work?

 

It's really not that complicated.

 

I don't think she gets it no. I really did think she would address my concerns last night but after her crying today, I'm just gutted.

[lolablue17]

Can somebody really put tears on if they are cheating?

 

Yes, easily. The more she cries, the more she knows she did wrong.

 

 

She said she feels nothing for him, he is like one of her brothers and if she was single she wouldn't touch him with a bargepole!

 

Why did she delete their messages if it's all innocent. Did you ask her about that? Tell her that a simple reasonable explanation will help much more than all the tears in the world. If you stay calm, she may change tactics from tears to truth.

Edited December 24, 2016 by lolablue17

[kgcolonel]

If she is truly remorseful....ask her why she is using a texting app that automatically delete...also, why does she delete the messages if they're indeed innocent...

 

I hear your consternation and honestly hope she's being truthful. Has she offered any change as suggestions that would give you more comfort in her interaction with this guy?

[BluesPower]

If you study on it, even if you are not a technical person, you will understand what you need to do.

 

No I have not used that particular software but I have used others. I am technical but most people that can read can understand what to do. You will need access for probably about 2 hours to get everything done.

 

The vibe thing is the same deal. Anyway, all that any of this stuff takes is time researching on the internet, just Google it and you will find the info you need.

 

Do a search like, "recovering texts from vibe", "Recovering iPhone texts with DR. Fone", stuff like that. Probably an afternoons worth of work to get your plan together.

 

Someone else seemed to be saying that if she backed up her phone on your laptop that the DRF software may be able to look at that back up and still recover a ton of stuff.

 

That may be a good option as well.

 

The hidden VAR and Hidden GPS stuff will also help confirm what is going on as well.

 

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I also know that you won't believe what is happening until you see all the proof with your own eyes. I get that, and the proof is going to help you move on from her and start a new life.

 

I wish you luck...

[crebel81]

If she is truly remorseful....ask her why she is using a texting app that automatically delete...also, why does she delete the messages if they're indeed innocent...

 

I hear your consternation and honestly hope she's being truthful. Has she offered any change as suggestions that would give you more comfort in her interaction with this guy?

 

She said she know I check her phone. I did so twice in 3.5 years. Last time was 4 weeks ago and that's when I seen that they were deleted.

Because of the way he speaks, she said his messages would be misconstrued because of the language he uses and it's all innocent. So she deletes them to protect me because she knows how I feel about him.

 

I do know he is a bit mad, as in not mentally well. His messages go on and on about all his problems with the job etc. That's the messages I seen the first time I looked at her phone over 2 years ago

[crebel81]

If you study on it, even if you are not a technical person, you will understand what you need to do.

 

No I have not used that particular software but I have used others. I am technical but most people that can read can understand what to do. You will need access for probably about 2 hours to get everything done.

 

The vibe thing is the same deal. Anyway, all that any of this stuff takes is time researching on the internet, just Google it and you will find the info you need.

 

Do a search like, "recovering texts from vibe", "Recovering iPhone texts with DR. Fone", stuff like that. Probably an afternoons worth of work to get your plan together.

 

Someone else seemed to be saying that if she backed up her phone on your laptop that the DRF software may be able to look at that back up and still recover a ton of stuff.

 

That may be a good option as well.

 

The hidden VAR and Hidden GPS stuff will also help confirm what is going on as well.

 

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I also know that you won't believe what is happening until you see all the proof with your own eyes. I get that, and the proof is going to help you move on from her and start a new life.

 

I wish you luck...

 

Unfortunately Blue, she is a cop. Fat chance of me getting her phone for 2 hours.

 

I do know it's an emotional affair at the very least. She is very defensive and that plus the crying and saying he is only a friend...she should be coming to me today telling me how sorry she is for making me feel the way I do.

 

I did say last night that I am removing myself from all this which scared her the hell out of her.

[crebel81]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I also know that you won't believe what is happening until you see all the proof with your own eyes. I get that, and the proof is going to help you move on from her and start a new life.

 

I wish you luck...

 

Funny thing Blue, I started a new life 3.5 years ago after being in bad relationship for 6 years. Also had a child from that relationship too.

 

I hope I can prove you wrong bud

[kgcolonel]

Unfortunately Blue, she is a cop. Fat chance of me getting her phone for 2 hours.

 

I do know it's an emotional affair at the very least. She is very defensive and that plus the crying and saying he is only a friend...she should be coming to me today telling me how sorry she is for making me feel the way I do.

 

I did say last night that I am removing myself from all this which scared her the hell out of her.

 

If indeed she does come to you, tell her that actions speak louder than words....tell her that you need full access (without deleted conversations) with the OM. Tell her that you are at a crossroad with the relationship and that this is no way to build a future with her when she continues to do things that you have clearly told her, make you uncomfortable. Her answer isn't all that important, her reaction and future actions are what you're looking for.

 

Again, I would also repeat the "red flags" that you have mentioned and ask her how she would feel if the roles were reversed and as everyone else has said, CALM is the key here....be matter of fact and direct.

[umirano]

I don't think she gets it no. I really did think she would address my concerns last night but after her crying today, I'm just gutted.

 

But then you have your answer, do you not? She's aware of what upsets you and decided it's not relevant to her. You are not her priority, your well being is trumped by her need for the relationship with this colleague.

[umirano]

Because of the way he speaks, she said his messages would be misconstrued because of the language he uses and it's all innocent. So she deletes them to protect me because she knows how I feel about him.

Gaslighting, the oldest excuse under the sun. LOL

I do know he is a bit mad, as in not mentally well. His messages go on and on about all his problems with the job etc. That's the messages I seen the first time I looked at her phone over 2 years ago

not that it really matters, I think you should be broken up by now, but maybe it serves for future reference. A partner should never be someone else's private counselor. If this person needs help, give them the number of a doctor.

[lolablue17]

Because of the way he speaks, she said his messages would be misconstrued because of the language he uses and it's all innocent. So she deletes them to protect me because she knows how I feel about him.

 

You are doing great. So she's admitting keeping secrets, and doing a daily cover up job, to erase all evidence connected to their relationship. How can she ask you to believe her after this confession?

 

If she had kept those texts, you could have seen them and judge for yourself. She had the chance to prove she's not cheating. But she chose to destroy all evidence and lost the chance she had to show you she's clean.

 

Unless she's very stupid, there is only one reason why she went against her interest - The evidence did show the truth about her cheating. If she had deleted one text, on conversation... mmm... Ok I can understand a woman with a bad judgment. But does she claim that ALL THEIR TEXTS were suspicious? ALL OF IT?

 

She fatally broke your trust. How can she expect you to believe her from now on after all this lies? Ask her to think of away how to gain your trust that is very low now. Tell her that you're sure she isn't telling you the whole story and the best way to start gaining your trust is to supply the full truth and nothing but. I advice you to let her think (even if it's not correct) that you can tolerate even cheating, but you cannot tolerate lies.

 

And let her do her thinking. Keep calm, don't accuse her with nothing, stay stable. It's her turn to try to fix it, but without lies. Another lie or omission, or half true - You won't even listen anymore. What's the point of listening to liars.

[crebel81]

Guys and gals...thanks you for all the advice and thoughts.

 

My head is absolutely wrecked from all this. Some are saying it might not be affair, some are saying it isn't and I guess I need to take a step back to make my own decision on how I proceed.

 

I asked her just now why she is angry and she said its because I don't trust her even though she has left the thing with my ex go I.e. she discovered 6 months ago that I was texting my ex for the first few months of our relationship and she has accepted it and moved on. She cried uncontrollably.

 

She said I am ruining Xmas because she thought we dealt with this 3 weeks ago.

 

So for now folks, Merry Christmas and genuinely thanks for all your input.

[road]

I don't think she gets it no. I really did think she would address my concerns last night but after her crying today, I'm just gutted.

 

Yes, easily. The more she cries, the more she knows she did wrong.

 

 

 

Why did she delete their messages if it's all innocent. Did you ask her about that? Tell her that a simple reasonable explanation will help much more than all the tears in the world. If you stay calm, she may change tactics from tears to truth.

 

Crocodile Tears, google that.

[road]

She said she know I check her phone. I did so twice in 3.5 years. Last time was 4 weeks ago and that's when I seen that they were deleted.

Because of the way he speaks, she said his messages would be misconstrued because of the language he uses and it's all innocent. So she deletes them to protect me because she knows how I feel about him.

 

I do know he is a bit mad, as in not mentally well. His messages go on and on about all his problems with the job etc. That's the messages I seen the first time I looked at her phone over 2 years ago

 

 

 

Talk about a whopper and we're not talking burgers but lies.

[lolablue17]

She's right, you ruined christmas. But you're right to sacrifice christmas, while trying to save your marriage. She must thank you. She still doesn't realise that it's a crisis and her up coming wedding is in risk.

 

You must be strong. Be patient. Don't do anything, just stick to your attitude. She will go round and round, cry a lot, accuse you, she may threaten you (If she's stupid enough), she will bump in to one wall and the other wall, but eventually she will understand that she cannot get away with it, only with words and anger.

 

She must give something. put some cards on the table. Don't you try to guess if she's having an affair or not, because this is not your field now. Your field is to built trust, to fix things and to establish a solid clean ground for the future.

 

Investigation about a possible affair? Not now.

 

Good luck and merry christmas!! I think you're doing fine.

[HereNorThere]

What kind of phone is it and do you have the google account or Apple ID username and password?

 

I could probably help you in ways that don't take 2 hours (or access to the phone at all.) I need more information.

Edited December 24, 2016 by HereNorThere

[Space Ritual]

She said I am ruining Xmas because she thought we dealt with this 3 weeks ago.

 

My advice stands, now more than ever.

 

I would also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" if I were you.

 

It is available in pdf form for free if you google it.

 

Hopefully in a year when this is all over you will come back and read this thread and realize just how your milquetoast response did nothing but reinforce your fiance's opinion that you are weak.

 

Please do something, dude. This is becoming one of the saddest threads I have ever read here. Not because of your situation, but because you have replied to us page after page of literally the same advice and not taken one bit of it.

 

We can have people offering to help you with phone recovery, VAR, etc. It is far beyond that point, and was about 4 pages back. You have already reached a point of no return with woman but you are the last one to understand that, and you should have been the first.

 

There is nothing left to save. You have been doing the Pick Me Dance with someone who has 2 left feet when it comes to wanting to be with you.

 

Your engagement and your relationship is dead. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

You need to begin to extricate yourself from crumbs your soon to be ex fiance is feeding you while she is carrying on with another man right in front or your face

 

You can no longer save this relationship, but you can save yourself.

 

It is all you have left.

[lolablue17]

I would like to add one more thing. You don't have to treat her bad. You can treat her great, and you can say that you love her, and you can smile to her, and show her that you dont hate her... the opposite.

 

But she must understand that things must change. She must find away to gain your trust. If she's moved on after you texted your ex, great. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. You can move on (maybe, depends) only if you know the truth, only if she start changing her ways. No more lies, no matter what, and she must offer to cut him for good. She should have done that after the first text that was worth deletion.

[BluesPower]

Guys - Let's not be too hard on him, I know I have no room to talk.

 

He does not understand yet, he has not been through it yet. We all know that he is afraid of what is going to happen.

 

I mean, it just takes time for people to deal with this stuff. Who is to say what is the right way for this to happen.

 

When he finds out, he will be back and he will say what a fool he was.

 

Just give him time. And remember that it is so much harder when you don't have conclusive proof like some of us had.

 

OP - hand in there, we will be here for you...

[DKT3]

Here is the bottom line, she is emotionally invested in this guy to the point that she is willing to risk her relationship with you. If you wasn't she would respect your feelings and would have ended thier contact.

 

Nothing else to be said about that...

 

The way she is acting now is standard for a cheater, it's making you doubt what you know, but for us that have been down this road it's obvious, to the point that we can likely predict her next move.

 

She knows she can manipulate you.

[Try]

She went completely defensive, said she is angry. On some level I feel stupid and think it's all in my head and I am insecure.

This is called gas lighting, where the cheater makes you doubt common sense, and expects you to believe that deleting text messages only with this other man (OM), and that going on an overnight trip secretly with this OM, is all perfectly normal, and that you must be crazy to think otherwise. Cheaters sell their gas lighting by being angry and mad at you. If you read other threads in the infidelity section of this site, you will see how standard this type of gas lighting is. It is like there is a cheaters script that tells them to do this when confronted with the obvious.

 

She just said he is mad and he annoys her a lot.

You should call bull to her on this. If the OM "annoys her a lot" like she says, then why the many deleted texting with a guy that has not been to work for a year and why would she dive up and back with him on a 3 hours each way trip? More gas lighting, where you are expected to ignore common sense.

 

Tell her that the marriage is off until you feel that what she is saying about her relationship with this OM is in sync with common sense.

[Try]

She is angry because you went through her phone, when she did the exact same thing to you? Damn, your cheating girlfriend has juevos

Quoted for truth.