Boundaries After Affair

[Satu]

You have to base your thinking on what he actually does.

 

Behaviour trumps everything.

 

Until his behaviour changes, nothing has changed.

 

 

Take care.

[Texygrl]

Downtown, thank you so much!!! Very very insightful!

 

I should clarify, he was not diagnosed with narcissistic disorder/rage. His anger fit into the description of narcissistic rage...

 

Now to go read about the warning signs and the Rebel's Thread.

 

Again, thank you!

 

Read them both. It nails him. :/

 

And some of describes me, but with General Anxiety Disorder and ADD/ADHD, I'm already aware of my tendencies and am learning to better manage them. The EMDR has been a HUGE help!

 

So, nutshell, this marriage is screwed. ~sigh~

Edited December 26, 2016 by Texygrl
to add...

[harrybrown]

Will he pay and go to see the people at affair recovery.com?

 

will he be transparent? is he remorseful?

 

Has he stopped all contact? does he have any boundaries?

 

with the abuse, I think you would be better to be done.

 

His actions are very loud right now against safety for you and your kids.

[BetrayedH]

If I'm following you correctly, the brainwashing you've discussed is called, gaslighting. It's when someone manipulates you into thinking that your insecurities and paranoia are causing you to see something that isn't there. Some people that have walked in on their affair partners having sex were eventually convinced that they were "just wrestling." They make you think that you're the crazy one. While I haven't seen gaslighting in what you've written, he's most certainly lied to you for a long time if you're just now finding out about "affairs" that took place a year ago, whether he felt he had a free separation pass or not.

 

What seems more prominent in your situation is blameshifting. He's putting the blame for his poor decisions on you (both the abuse and the affairs). Sadly, this is often effective, just as you've described. Most relationships are validating to the two people involved. Both receive validation that they are valuable, attractive, desirable, cared for, etc.. But for the betrayed spouse, affairs are the opposite of validating. Instead of boosting your self-esteem, they dismantle it. Suddenly you have self-doubt about everything - your appearance, your approach, your worth. Many waywards exploit this vulnerability and put the blame on you. And when your feelings of rejection and low self-worth kick in, you decide to accept that blame, especially if you're trying to keep your family together. You just take it on yourself.

 

Stop doing that.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's from the thread "When did you know that infidelity was a deal breaker?"

 

I was discussing my failed attempt(s) to reconcile my marriage after my ex-wife's short affair. Since we had a two-year old, I was motivated to make things work.

 

sweat eq·ui·ty -noun informal:

 

an interest or increased value in a property earned from labor toward upkeep or restoration.

 

It was obvious much work would be involved in repairing the damage to our relationship, not all of it from the affair. Not validating her cheating but I was a pretty lousy husband, more vested in my career than I was in our marriage or family

 

I tried very hard to turn things around, trying to be accountable for my shortcomings and responsible for change. All I asked was that she do the same in regards to her infidelity. Unfortunately, she didn't have it in her for a lot of reasons, some of which had to do with her cheating in the first place.

Not being the quickest learner, we limped forward for a year until it finally dawned on me only one of us was honestly vested in building a successful framework.

 

She still had no real stake in our marriage and I had no confidence she wouldn't stray again. That's when we separated and I filed. Hope this helps...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Oberfeldwebel]

I must admit I haven't the vaguest idea why you want this man. You should NEVER let a man put his hands on you, at that moment you should call the police and have him arrested - period. I get the impression that you don't believe that you deserve better, that he is doing you a favor by staying. This is ludicrous, no one deserve this kind of treatment. I also have concerns for you children as well. Somebody has to be at fault for this behavior and he has decided that it has to be you and the other woman, well you can't expect him to take responsibility for his actions can you?

[Texygrl]

I must admit I haven't the vaguest idea why you want this man. You should NEVER let a man put his hands on you, at that moment you should call the police and have him arrested - period. I get the impression that you don't believe that you deserve better, that he is doing you a favor by staying. This is ludicrous, no one deserve this kind of treatment. I also have concerns for you children as well. Somebody has to be at fault for this behavior and he has decided that it has to be you and the other woman, well you can't expect him to take responsibility for his actions can you?

 

We live apart because I (finally) realized what a toxic environment they were in.

 

As to why I want this man...there are many qualities about him that aren't horrible. I've just painted the horrible picture to get the feedback I want. "As-is", I don't want the abusive, lying, cheating version of this man.

 

My question was, can he change?

 

There are other layers to the relationship that I do have responsibility to. And I know (now) that I absolutely deserve better. Can he be better is the question I ask myself. He can't be better overnight, but I like to think people can change over time and with great effort.

 

That's why I looked for a forum like this. To read other people's stories, get feedback. I had one boyfriend in high school, was married for 12 years, and now have been married again for 6 years. My "relationship" experience is incredibly lacking.

 

It's jacked up. My father and I had a wonderful relationship, no childhood issues with him, yet...I'm 0-3 so far in the life partner department. It's infuriating, and I honestly can't figure it out! (And I'm not an idiot, I just play one on the internet...).

[Mr. Lucky]

(And I'm not an idiot, I just play one on the internet...).

 

News flash - loving someone enough to trust them and make yourself vulnerable doesn't make you an idiot. It does however make the person that betrays that faith a douche...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetrayedH]

If you continue to accept the current version, he has no motivation to change.

[Texygrl]

Correct. That's why I separated a year and a half ago, and filed divorce in July. He knows without a doubt this isn't a short-lived change on my part.

 

Now, under the suggestion of my/our counselor, I'm supposed to come up with...stipulations (?) as to what will keep me moving towards reconciliation and not divorce. I'm finding that problematic, other than "don't do what you've been doing". -_-

[oldshirt]

Let's consider what therapy/counseling is and what it isn't.

 

Therapy/counseling can help people peel back layers to help identify what the problems are and it can help people to express themselves and learn more effective ways of communicating their needs and expectations.

 

It does not however turn bad people into good people. It does not correct character flaws or change people's core values or change their personalities.

 

Abuse, serial cheating, chronic manipulation, lying etc etc are character flaws and bad behaviors. They are not due to barriers in communication.

 

He is a whole human being, flaws and character issues and bad behaviors and all.

 

You do not get to cherry pick the parts you want to keep.

[Texygrl]

Understood.

 

There is some deep trauma from his childhood that surfaced during therapy. Physical abuse from his mom, abandonment from his dad. As it was explored, the "why" he did what he did made more sense. In essence, he suffers PTSD from his childhood.

 

It was suggested in another post that it could be way more than just the childhood trauma, along the lines of BPD. Which adds another layer to the already complicated situation.

 

He has done some EMDR work on said trauma, which may or may not make a difference in our marriage therapy. I've needed to do my own EMDR work, and we have been No Contact since before Thanksgiving.

 

As I've worked through my EMDR, I've become less and less accepting of any blame for his behavior. Where I once thought if I just changed enough, his behavior would change, I now see it has zero to do with me. Since that change happened in me, I look at things differently.

 

What jacked the whole thing up was the sexual relationships/lying while we were separated. Both were not an issue prior to the separation.

 

In the last several days, I've realized that I'm hyper focusing on needing to know what's going to happen. Trying to make a list has kept my mind focused on the list instead of on the other women...

 

Basically, I've narrowed it down to "we've got to address the affair and the lying" First. Period. He's squared it up in his head that since we were separated, and he felt like I abandoned him, it wasn't an "affair". That's my opening statement when we meet January 4th with our therapist. If he balks, then there's no point in moving forward.

 

If he doesn't balk...then I'll still expect something vastly different than what he's already offered. And it will have to be something that catches me off guard (in a good way) because I'm used to being able to predict his moves.

 

So now, I just have to wait and see.

[BetrayedH]

Correct. That's why I separated a year and a half ago, and filed divorce in July. He knows without a doubt this isn't a short-lived change on my part.

 

Now, under the suggestion of my/our counselor, I'm supposed to come up with...stipulations (?) as to what will keep me moving towards reconciliation and not divorce. I'm finding that problematic, other than "don't do what you've been doing". -_-

 

Ok, fair enough. Other than reviewing that thread I mentioned to look for things that a wayward should be doing, here's a few that come top of mind for me:

 

(1) Establishing NC (no contact) with his OW (other women). That may mean drafting a letter to them requesting no contact from them ever again as they are not friends of his marriage. No meetings in person to do this. No "closure" events. He never contacts them again and immediately notifies you if they attempt contact.

 

(2) Complete transparency with his life going forward. He's an open book. You have usernames and passwords to all email accounts and social media. You begin to "trust but verify." You both embrace this transparency. When you investigate and find nothing, you both win. When requested, he sends you a selfie of where he is and who he is with. Trust is rebuilt by him demonstrating consistent actions over time.

 

(3) He establishes boundaries with women going forward. I suggest you both read, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

 

(4) He answers any and all questions, embracing honesty and openness. There is no attempt to shelter you from the truth. You are an adult and he no longer gets to decide what you can handle. You get to make informed decisions about your life from here on out. It is natural for you to ask the same questions in a variety of ways and to continue doing so for quite some time. This is a result of him establishing himself to be capable of deceit. Your mind will look for inconsistencies in his stories. The onus is on him to rectify this problem he created.

 

(5) You both accept that this will take 2-5 years, just to reach a point where you feel there is basic recovery. Sadly, it's now a permanent part of your history but it still should be expected to take this long for you to reach a point of acceptance. Trying to go fast is slow. Slow is fast.

 

(6) He never lies to you again, about anything. Privacy in a marriage is for the bathroom. True intimacy is created by being truly authentic with one another and embracing one another, warts and all. Lies build walls between you. If my partner for all things in life is comfortable lying straight to my face, I'd rather not have a partner. If you want a marriage worth being in, it's the two of you against the world and you share everything with one another in that partnership.

 

(7) No blameshifting. He had a million things he could have done to correct any marital issues. None of them involved the bed of another woman. You didn't cause his affairs. His choice to have an affair caused them. No marriage is perfect. No spouse is perfect. All spouses and marriages have flaws. Not every spouse cheats. Cheating is a personal problem, not a marital one. Building on this, he embraces individual counseling to detemine his personal "why." Instead of the numerous ethical, moral, healthy, and respectful choices that were before him (including the threat of divorce on his part if he were so unhappy), he instead decided to sleep with other women and lie about it. Why? Does he have an excessive need for external validation? Is he severely conflict avoidant? Does he have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement? If he can determine what is broken within him, perhaps he can better avoid the use of that destructive coping mechanism in the future and you can feel less apt to suffer a repeat performance.

 

(8) When you have mind movies and things trigger you to remember his affairs, he doesn't react negatively as if you should "get over it already." No one wants to be over it more than you do. Your wayward husband created this for you; he is to be your partner in recovering from these lovely little experiences. Typically, an apology (yes, for the 1000th time) and a soft embrace is what's expected. Negative reactions are not tolerated. He can find someone else to tolerate affairs.

 

I could ramble further. But you need to make your own list.

Edited December 27, 2016 by BetrayedH

[Texygrl]

Thank you BetrayedH! That was incredibly helpful!! And gives me an outline to start my own list.

 

I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into your response. There are so many layers to this broken down relationship that I get overwhelmed. It's helped tremendously to put the infidelity at the top of the list. There's really no sense in addressing anything else until this is "hammered out". I don't think he understands that it completely, and forever, changed our relationship.

 

Thanks again. God bless.

[Whoknew30]

Anytime there's true abuse, who cares about an A. You need to figure out why you don't love yourself enough & why you're so extremely insecure that you're more worried about who he was seeing while separated vs why you're putting up with abuse & not only putting up with it, willing to go back after a year away from it.

 

He isn't your problem, his A (which a year an half separated isn't in A in my opinion either) isn't your problem, you are your life problem. Women get killed trying to get away from their abusive husbands, you got away & your biggest concern is not his abuse but him seeing someone else? That doesn't even make any sense.

 

Get YOURSELF some help, bc that's who needs it the most in this situation. Good luck!

[Texygrl]

Anytime there's true abuse, who cares about an A. You need to figure out why you don't love yourself enough & why you're so extremely insecure that you're more worried about who he was seeing while separated vs why you're putting up with abuse & not only putting up with it, willing to go back after a year away from it.

 

He isn't your problem, his A (which a year an half separated isn't in A in my opinion either) isn't your problem, you are your life problem. Women get killed trying to get away from their abusive husbands, you got away & your biggest concern is not his abuse but him seeing someone else? That doesn't even make any sense.

 

Get YOURSELF some help, bc that's who needs it the most in this situation. Good luck!

 

Not sure if you read my other thread or not, I posted it then found this specific forum. If you missed it, and are interested:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/606812-abuse-lies-infidelity-oh-my

 

You're responding to seeing a postage stamp picture of my marriage/life. I don't disagree that I am my life problem, the biggest part of that me problem is looking for the good in every situation. I could write an equally long, if not longer, post that would show all the good in the marriage. It wasn't completely devoid of happiness and real love.

 

There were things I didn't know about me that were/are pertinent to my relationships and their disfunction throughout my life. Now that I know them, I get a clear picture of what life with me is actually like. It's help me tremendously to understand why I do what I do. My entire life was missing a puzzle piece, and a pretty gosh darn important one. I created a life of coping mechanisms, but didn't understand why I couldn't be different, or do things I watched others do with ease. Simple, stupid things that I couldn't accomplish no matter how many ways I tried set me up to always feel like a failure. I didn't not love myself, but I knew something about me was off, I just had no idea what it was. Living that way for 44 years caused trauma, not necessarily PTSD level, but definitely panic attack level that would hit me seemingly out of no where.

 

I've gotten help, consistently, for the last 2+ years, twice a month if not more. It involves rewiring my brain (not really, but kinda), and at 45 that's no small task. I could spend hours explaining it, but I'll spare you, though it is fascinating...

 

If I thought, or believed, for one second my husband was truly a monster, trust me, I'd walk away and never look back. But he isn't a monster. There are more great and wonderful things about him than there are bad...it's just the bad is deep seeded in trauma that is very much like PTSD. Had that fact never come up, I would have finalized the divorce on the 61st day and washed my hands of him.

 

It is very possible that this marriage/relationship won't work out, I'm not completely blind. There could be comorbid conditions at play that I simply cannot live with, and I do love myself enough to see that with very clear vision. What I'm not willing to do is not overturn every rock first. And I don't do that for him, I do that for me. I don't have a clear understanding of how deep his "issues" go, neither does he. But so far, he's agreed to all the counseling. I do wish our first therapist had known more about EMDR/trauma because she pegged where his anger came from, but no amount of talk therapy was going to help it.

 

As to the affair...not sure why you think it wasn't an affair. We were married, living apart. I was working on me, he was supposed to be working on him. However, his trauma prevented him from making much progress, but there were small steps in the right direction. There's no excuse, in my book, for his infidelity, however I understand the why behind it. I still hold him accountable for his choices, regardless.

 

So, yes, my biggest, really first, concern is the infidelity. The physical abuse never presented again, the verbal abuse stopped when he realized that it was not how "normal" adults interact (and yes, he was absolutely clueless that wasn't normal. His mother was physically/emotionally/verbally abusive to him. And he picked women just like her for the majority of his life...until me). No, I am not willing to put up with it anymore, or willing to go back to it. I have changed, and still have a lot of learning to do.

 

I firmly believe people can change, I am proof of that. But it's not easy, and not everyone can or will do the hard work it takes to do a 180. The process isn't overnight, and it may be more than he's willing to do or even can do. What will be quick is finding out if he's serious, or wants the instant fix. I'll know January 4th.

[Whoknew30]

Not sure if you read my other thread or not, I posted it then found this specific forum. If you missed it, and are interested:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/606812-abuse-lies-infidelity-oh-my

 

You're responding to seeing a postage stamp picture of my marriage/life. I don't disagree that I am my life problem, the biggest part of that me problem is looking for the good in every situation. I could write an equally long, if not longer, post that would show all the good in the marriage. It wasn't completely devoid of happiness and real love.

 

There were things I didn't know about me that were/are pertinent to my relationships and their disfunction throughout my life. Now that I know them, I get a clear picture of what life with me is actually like. It's help me tremendously to understand why I do what I do. My entire life was missing a puzzle piece, and a pretty gosh darn important one. I created a life of coping mechanisms, but didn't understand why I couldn't be different, or do things I watched others do with ease. Simple, stupid things that I couldn't accomplish no matter how many ways I tried set me up to always feel like a failure. I didn't not love myself, but I knew something about me was off, I just had no idea what it was. Living that way for 44 years caused trauma, not necessarily PTSD level, but definitely panic attack level that would hit me seemingly out of no where.

 

I've gotten help, consistently, for the last 2+ years, twice a month if not more. It involves rewiring my brain (not really, but kinda), and at 45 that's no small task. I could spend hours explaining it, but I'll spare you, though it is fascinating...

 

If I thought, or believed, for one second my husband was truly a monster, trust me, I'd walk away and never look back. But he isn't a monster. There are more great and wonderful things about him than there are bad...it's just the bad is deep seeded in trauma that is very much like PTSD. Had that fact never come up, I would have finalized the divorce on the 61st day and washed my hands of him.

 

It is very possible that this marriage/relationship won't work out, I'm not completely blind. There could be comorbid conditions at play that I simply cannot live with, and I do love myself enough to see that with very clear vision. What I'm not willing to do is not overturn every rock first. And I don't do that for him, I do that for me. I don't have a clear understanding of how deep his "issues" go, neither does he. But so far, he's agreed to all the counseling. I do wish our first therapist had known more about EMDR/trauma because she pegged where his anger came from, but no amount of talk therapy was going to help it.

 

As to the affair...not sure why you think it wasn't an affair. We were married, living apart. I was working on me, he was supposed to be working on him. However, his trauma prevented him from making much progress, but there were small steps in the right direction. There's no excuse, in my book, for his infidelity, however I understand the why behind it. I still hold him accountable for his choices, regardless.

 

So, yes, my biggest, really first, concern is the infidelity. The physical abuse never presented again, the verbal abuse stopped when he realized that it was not how "normal" adults interact (and yes, he was absolutely clueless that wasn't normal. His mother was physically/emotionally/verbally abusive to him. And he picked women just like her for the majority of his life...until me). No, I am not willing to put up with it anymore, or willing to go back to it. I have changed, and still have a lot of learning to do.

 

I firmly believe people can change, I am proof of that. But it's not easy, and not everyone can or will do the hard work it takes to do a 180. The process isn't overnight, and it may be more than he's willing to do or even can do. What will be quick is finding out if he's serious, or wants the instant fix. I'll know January 4th.

 

I thought you meant he was seeing someone only while you two were separated, so I apologize.

 

Though now since I read this, I see you have 3 boys & have gone through this with them, when there father wasn't abusive & your relationship wasn't like that with them?

 

Where are your boys in all of this? Have they had to see any of this? What do your boys think & are they your defining factor into your decision?

[Texygrl]

I thought you meant he was seeing someone only while you two were separated, so I apologize.

 

Though now since I read this, I see you have 3 boys & have gone through this with them, when there father wasn't abusive & your relationship wasn't like that with them?

 

Where are your boys in all of this? Have they had to see any of this? What do your boys think & are they your defining factor into your decision?

 

I guess I'm unclear of your definition of separated...We have lived apart for a year and a half now. He moved out July of 2015. His first "affair" was in December 2015 and the second August 2016, and couple of random encounters in between.

 

Three boys from my first marriage. They are the factor in this, and why I finally said my second husband had to move out. The environment was hostile. It seems we'd save the "good" bad fighting for the weekends the boys were with their dad. But I finally realized they were getting half a mom, and a tired, overwhelmed half at that.

 

The youngest two love their step-dad, he was more involved in their lives than their biological father. The oldest had a wonderful relationship at first, but as things changed between dh and I, so did the relationship between them. I've talked very frankly with the oldest, and he with me.

 

I will not bring a toxic relationship back into this house. Nor am I subjecting my oldest to be around dh at this point. That's a whole 'nother subject. :/

 

Nutshell, my kids come first. My happiness/marriage comes next.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's only fair to ask...

 

What was the understanding or agreement between you and your husband for the purpose of the separation? Did you have one?

 

I don't mean to ask in an accusatory tone. I just have a feeling that this is going to be a sticking point between you. Perhaps it's best to do a trial litigation of the arguments here, so you are prepared.

 

Some would argue that a separation is a break from the marital agreement. Others would hold a stricter view that you're married until you're divorced. Did you have any stipulations or were assumptions made?

[Texygrl]

I think it's only fair to ask...

 

What was the understanding or agreement between you and your husband for the purpose of the separation? Did you have one?

 

I don't mean to ask in an accusatory tone. I just have a feeling that this is going to be a sticking point between you. Perhaps it's best to do a trial litigation of the arguments here, so you are prepared.

 

Some would argue that a separation is a break from the marital agreement. Others would hold a stricter view that you're married until you're divorced. Did you have any stipulations or were assumptions made?

 

The first time you said it, I took offense (which isn't your fault, you can't make me feel offended...). But then I realized you don't know all of it. This time, no offense, and I like the idea of trial litigation!! Helps me get my thoughts in order...when I get frazzled, my brain freezes and I get easily overwhelmed.

 

We did have an agreed purpose to the separation: Working on our individual issues so we could communicate better and stop "triggering" each other.

 

What happened was that I would stop engaging him if his "typical" bad behavior (verbal abuse) started up. I'd go "no contact" until either I was in a place I could remain calm, or his tune changed. It could be anywhere from several days to (I think the most) 2 weeks.

 

We would get caught in this triangle, victim-persecutor-savior. One of us would fall into a role, the other would take up another role and it was not productive. So, I started actively not stepping into a role. I'd say I'm not going to talk to you if it just to listen to you tell me how horrible I am; or I'd say I can't talk because I'm angry and need to have a clear head for this discussion.

 

He equated that to abandonment.

 

It was very clear, for both of us, that we were still very married. Even after I filed for divorce, I said if he got back into therapy, I'd not finalize the divorce (because there was progress and effort on his part).

[BetrayedH]

The first time you said it, I took offense (which isn't your fault, you can't make me feel offended...). But then I realized you don't know all of it. This time, no offense, and I like the idea of trial litigation!! Helps me get my thoughts in order...when I get frazzled, my brain freezes and I get easily overwhelmed.

 

We did have an agreed purpose to the separation: Working on our individual issues so we could communicate better and stop "triggering" each other.

 

What happened was that I would stop engaging him if his "typical" bad behavior (verbal abuse) started up. I'd go "no contact" until either I was in a place I could remain calm, or his tune changed. It could be anywhere from several days to (I think the most) 2 weeks.

 

We would get caught in this triangle, victim-persecutor-savior. One of us would fall into a role, the other would take up another role and it was not productive. So, I started actively not stepping into a role. I'd say I'm not going to talk to you if it just to listen to you tell me how horrible I am; or I'd say I can't talk because I'm angry and need to have a clear head for this discussion.

 

He equated that to abandonment.

 

It was very clear, for both of us, that we were still very married. Even after I filed for divorce, I said if he got back into therapy, I'd not finalize the divorce (because there was progress and effort on his part).

 

Thanks for not taking offense. None was intended but it was difficult to pose the question delicately. It's really just my hope to be a thought-partner.

 

So, your husband appears to be claiming that he was justified, as you were separated. I don't want to put words into his mouth. Do you feel you can play devil's advocate enough to explain his position? It doesn't seem to jive with your belief that it was clear that you were still very married. Does his view stand up at all to any scrutiny? I'm curious if your joint therapist has a view on the matter, as a (hopefully) objective third-party, although it might be more professional if they didn't express that view.

[Texygrl]

Thanks for not taking offense. None was intended but it was difficult to pose the question delicately. It's really just my hope to be a thought-partner.

 

So, your husband appears to be claiming that he was justified, as you were separated. I don't want to put words into his mouth. Do you feel you can play devil's advocate enough to explain his position? It doesn't seem to jive with your belief that it was clear that you were still very married. Does his view stand up at all to any scrutiny? I'm curious if your joint therapist has a view on the matter, as a (hopefully) objective third-party, although it might be more professional if they didn't express that view.

 

His position was that I abandoned him. Heartbroken because I'd not talk to him for days or weeks he filled that void with attention from other women. He never attributed his destructive behavior to why I would withdraw. He also got it in his head I wanted to get back with my ex, accused me of it many times. In early 2016 we had a crisis with our oldest son and had to work fairly closely together to get things sorted out. My ex and I will work together to do what is best for the boys, and it ends there for both of us. However I think my husbands history of abuse and cheating gf/wife prevented him from believing me. And the fact he was lying...I've found liars always accuse others of lying.

 

His view collapses under scrutiny. We've actually not sat down and discussed it for any length of time. Whem I'd start poking holes in his justifications he'd just refuse to talk about it. And I was fine with that because I didn't have to feel.

 

Our therapist has really focused on the EMDR therapy with both of us. We go individually right now, since no contact, so I don't know what she says to him. She has helped me to see that the marriage was/is destructive. She's pretty much validated me and encouraged me to learn what boundaries are. She agrees that my boys come first, and I can do what I feel is best for them. She's helped me work through the shock of the infidelity and helped me pin down if I can actually get past it.

 

It will be interesting to see if the EMDR helped him as much as it's helped me. Looking at his infidelity triggered the trauma from his childhood abuse. His mother treated him like garbage, and beat him horribly. If he even began to admit he was wrong-it would snowball into the message from his mom about being worthless and the PTSD would kick in.

 

He knows he crossed a line, several actually. And there have been moments I see actual remorse. But if he gets triggered, it's a whole different person I'm dealing with. It's really been eye opening to the depth of PTSD, and how little is understood about it in general.

[Fugu]

I posted the long version in General Discussions, because I didn't see this forum.

 

The short version is:

 

My dh was verbally abusive, physically abusive once, we separated in July 2015, then I filed for divorce in July 2016 because his behavior was not changing.

 

In late August, I find out he's "dating" another woman and they had a sexual relationship. Then I find out he had another sexual relationship in December 2015 and at least two other sexual encounters, but solicited several more that didn't pan out.

 

After discovering the "affairs", which he doesn't exactly consider them since we were separated...he suggested we go to counseling. We'd already been in counseling when we separated, going individually because the therapist said we had individual issues that needed to be addressed first. He quit going to that therapist.

 

Our new therapist suggest the same thing after meeting with us as a couple. She suggested a month of no contact.

 

I've had intense therapy (EMDR) for trauma, and am now finding myself wondering trying to figure out if I even want to give this marriage, yet another, 10th chance.

 

I don't trust him at all. The only reason I know he had multiple sexual encounters is because I hacked his phone.

 

What would any of you consider progress on his part for me to continue marriage therapy?

 

His words are meaningless to me. Sorry doesn't mean squat. "You have to know I always thought of you" makes me want to punch him. I've gone from thinking why wasn't I good enough, to - is he "worthy" of me?

 

Help!

 

Move . on.

[BetrayedH]

Move . on.

 

Honestly, it's really hard not to agree with this.

 

My summary...your H got kicked out because he was verbally (and once physically) abusive and his reaction was to begin dating someone else. And he wasn't upfront about it but continued to do it with other women. Instead of working on his issues, he dropped a nuke on the marriage. And now you're left twisting yourself in knots trying to find excuses from his childhood that would allow you to forgive him.

 

My point of view is that the onus is on him to convince you to pause the divorce. I think your exercise in making a list of what would be required is a good one to undertake. It's good to form and understand your boundaries. But I wouldn't spoon-feed any of it to him. Let him be proactive in repairing the damage. And if you get a whiff of minimizing, blameshifting, lying, gaslighting, or any other such bullcrap, then you simply keep walking.

 

Someone's history doesn't excuse their behavior. I get that your H has abandonment issues. Cry me a river. Honestly, is there someone out there that doesn't have some issues from childhood? It's no excuse to treat the people in your life like crap. The only time our family of origin (FOO) issues become relevant to me is in the context of a truly remorseful wayward that is being introspective enough to learn why they permitted themselves to justify destructive behavior so they can avoid doing it again in the future. It isn't used to justify any of it; it simply provides useful context.

 

Consider me in the crowd that says you shouldn't sit here and see the glass as half full and simply have faith that people can change. You should keep walking until such time as you're convinced that he HAS changed. And based on what I've read here, that window should be closing pretty rapidly.

 

I get the impression that you're (at some point) going to reconvene. What do you see as next steps?

[Mr. Lucky]

And now you're left twisting yourself in knots trying to find excuses from his childhood that would allow you to forgive him.

 

My point of view is that the onus is on him to convince you to pause the divorce. I think your exercise in making a list of what would be required is a good one to undertake. It's good to form and understand your boundaries. But I wouldn't spoon-feed any of it to him. Let him be proactive in repairing the damage. And if you get a whiff of minimizing, blameshifting, lying, gaslighting, or any other such bullcrap, then you simply keep walking.

 

Exactly.

 

Texygrl, you're like a hovering parent completing your child's science fair project for them. Your H needs to go down this road and do the work himself, otherwise no ownership or chance to learn. And you need to accept the fact he'll most likely never get there, at least not on a timetable that will work for you. FOO issues are the toughest to overcome.

 

Ironic your thread is titled "boundaries-after-affair". Time to start enforcing some ...

 

Mr. Lucky