Mid life wife drama

[rocky2marie]

This story is long and complex so I'll make it brief as possible. Wife and I been together 15 years. Since age 25. Early on I had a fling with someone she knew through work. We weren't committed at the time. We weren't even married until two years ago. But she flipped out. Iced me out for the next six years.

 

I stayed and endured it because we had a young kid and I didn't want him to grow up without a father. One aspect of her retaliation was that she went to AA. Never really a raging drunk but was drinking four beers a night the whole time I knew her. She dove in full commit. Three meetings a week. Ignored me, handed me the kid, was "having coffee" with multiple guys from AA. When I found out I asked her to stop and she did abruptly. That was 2011.

 

In 2012 I got lung cancer and nearly died. They removed most of my right lung. When I was recovering the lung kept leaking and failing and I was in massive pain. For the four or five months I was on the couch she never cried. Never even touched me. Just stared at me with a blank look. I never felt so alone. I hated her for it. Well I got better, somehow forgave her. She somehow forgave me. We somehow have a really cool 10 year old son and somehow have good sex. Well about a year ago she started working out all the time, changed her hair to platinum blonde and started having extremely loud passionate sex in her sleep. About three times a week. It didnt bother me for about two months. Then it did. She said it was nothing. Wasn't thinking about cheating, blah blah.

 

Then I (my bad) read her journals. All it was was about how she'd never had an affair and wanted to. I never brought it up. Tried to bury it. That's life. She's 40. Whatever. But it kept getting thrown in my face. i.e.: She went to therapy and admitted to falling for the therapist so had to quit. She went on a work trip to Vegas and partied extremely hard and told me "there was heavy flrting going on but no cheating". She started telling me about things from 12 years ago "Ok i was at a party at a hotel and a guy pulled me to his hotel room and took off his shirt" blah blah And that guy from AA I almost kissed but didn't blah blah.

 

So I started having round the clock panic attacks, taking pills to sleep. Hacked her email and phone password. Found nothing....EXCEPT that she had a completely secret guy friend for the past 6 years. Also From AA. Who she as recently as last year was texting about sending him a xmas card. I confronted her about this and she got really angry "it's NOTHING. He's married and I've hung out with his wife. I only never told you about him because I knew you would freak out because he was from AA".

 

She's pitched this whole thing to me as "I'm just jealous and get over it." And like a chump probably I believe that her relationship with this guy is technically kosher. But to me it's about trust. Am I the only one who feels that keeping secret friends of the opposite sex is tantamount to cheating? Please chime in

 

This is the one that stuck for me. Am I just a jealous maniac?

Edited January 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs and move to Infidelity

[Marc878]

Secretive opposite sex friends is at least an Emotional Affair by definition.

 

You appear to be under her control. Why is that?

[Space Ritual]

Oh buddy....

 

I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addict with over 20 years of sobriety under my belt.

 

It is a common joke amongst us who have been in recovery that the 13th step in a 12 step program is having sex with your sponsor.

 

 

So your wife obviously was only going through motions of the recovery program and as soon as the opportunity presented itself threw anything she learned about herself away and went back into the fray and predictably her life got worse than what it was.

 

More than a few people I've known over the course of my life have gone into a recovery program and started seeing somebody from their meeting group. All too often when you have 2 addicts in supposed recovery getting together like that they do little else other than sabotage any strides the have made.

 

12 step programs are not for everyone. I myself was able to stay clean and sober in spite of going to them. I reached a point where they were not helping me anymore and decided that I was better off changing my behaviors on my own. I have been successful so only because the life l'd led beforehand was so destructive to myself and those around me that I pretty much had lost everything as a consequence, so when I had nothing left to lose, it was great impetus to seek a better future for myself.

 

I say this time and again when I read stories like this, but I'll reiterate it once more.

 

If someone is not presented with consequences for their actions, there is really no motivation to change their behavior.

 

You must be willing to terminate the marriage in order to save it.

 

That means you must not make any threats..no "if you do this , I'm going to"....

 

Because she is under the impression that you will not enforce any consequences, and thus far she is proving herself right.

 

You have to be willing to follow through with consequences in full in order to see her behavior change.

 

Nothing says "consequence" by filing for divorce. You of course can stop it at any time, but in an extreme case like this, where her bottled up resentment is her driving force, acting with certainty is the best bet you have of getting her out of the fog.

 

It does not always work 100 percent of the time, but consider implementation of the 180 on her in order to prove to yourself that you will be fine without her. The 180 is not about getting her back, it is about detaching yourself from her actions.

 

But you must act. Wishing she will come to her senses and this will all go away is not a viable option. No one ever was able to Nice there spouse back into a relationship and not have to look over their shoulder for the duration of it.

 

Good Luck.

[rocky2marie]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I watched my parents get divorced and remarried to each other three times in 17 years. They did exactly what you prescribe and it just created chaos and pure hell for their kids. I've got a spectacular kid and don't want to put him through that unless it's final.

If i'd found evidence I think it would be different and I'd be talking to divorce lawyers.

But the reality is I found nothing. No evidence. No crime. And I actually believe that she didn't "cheat" (her journals are all about how she's never cheated in 15 years but wishes she did etc.) Which makes her a much better girl than most. Just trying to figure out how to cope and actually NOT throw it away.

[ExpatInItaly]

It's obvious your wife is very unhappy in the marriage. Keeping secrets and wishing she had cheated and bringing up all these past flirtations are all eroding the basic trust, and I have to wonder if she's now telling you about all these near-misses because she wants you to leave. It could perhaps be her misguided way out of the marriage, without technically being the one to pull the plug.

 

Is she willing to go to marriage counseling? Are you? I can't see how your marriage will possibly survive otherwise, when she's so clearly seeking out thrills elsewhere.

[rocky2marie]

Yes we're in deep therapy. All about staying in the marriage. She says she desperately wants to stay in the marriage. We are having the best sex we ever had. But this stuff comes up and I can't shake the jealous feelings. It's like a spiral.

[rocky2marie]

And she told me about past fliratations because I was demanding to know what had happened the previous night! (because she stayed out all night in vegas) She diverted it there. "I'll tell you everything ok....so....ten years ago...." Which did my head in even more.

[CommittedToThis]

She's pitched this whole thing to me as "I'm just jealous and get over it."

 

Personally, this alone would cause me to grab a suitcase, pack my belongings, walk away and never look back.

 

Of course you have a cool 10 year old son so you can't just walk away, I admire that you're trying to be a good father to him; he is an innocent in all of this.

 

Your wife, however, is not so innocent.

 

You know all those little clues she's leaked? Like, "Well, he pulled me into his hotel room and took off his shirt"?

 

That's called "trickle truthing", meaning she is dishing you little details about the incident(s) but not giving you the full picture.

 

I think your gut instincts are well aware of the full picture.

 

If it were me, I'd file divorce papers immediately and make plans regarding custody of your son.

 

Ask yourself: is your wife telling you to "get over it" actually USEFUL to you? Is she right? Do you need to get over it? Or do you know better, deep down inside?

 

Or is she being an entitled, petulant woman-child?

 

What a crappy situation to be in, I don't envy you. All the best to you and your son.

[Space Ritual]

Yes we're in deep therapy. All about staying in the marriage. She says she desperately wants to stay in the marriage. We are having the best sex we ever had. But this stuff comes up and I can't shake the jealous feelings. It's like a spiral.

 

You are having the best sex you've ever had because she is probably fantasizing about somebody else when she is having it with you, dude.

 

"In Deep Therapy" and "having the best sex we ever had" do not fit together.

 

Get your head out of the sand, pal.

 

She is getting off hinting at all the stuff she is doing behind your back.

 

Just like at NA meetings when you see a "Ninety Day Wonder" junkie start telling his war stories and scratching the track mark scabs on his arm, he is getting off. The same thing applies here.

 

See a Lawyer.

[Chaparral]

Have you checked your phone bills for who she has been calling and texting and how often? If she is in an affair, emotional or otherwise, there will be a trail if you can find it.

 

Do you have access to her phone and any old phones? Does she keep it locked?

 

Has you sex life actually changed? Changing for the worse or better can be a red flag for an affair also.

 

Changes in dress, appearance, personal grooming down there, coming home late, leaving early, are some red flags often seen when a person is cheating.

[rocky2marie]

I've checked pretty far back. No trace of anything. Also all her journals going back years are mostly about me and whether I'm being faithful etc. She may be flossy but she's old school. Full Irish (from the country) and no one in her family ever got divorced. Her parents have been miserable together for 55 years. And she held onto me (sometimes very much against my will) for the majority of the time we've been together. I love her. And I mean really love her in a way that's matured with age. And if still I want her she's not going anywhere. But I've heard and seen a lot of things over the past six months. A lot of it at my urging/ interrogation. "It's ok we can talk about it" Then I hear things I don't want to hear. Flirtations, dalliances and otherwise and having a very ****ing hard time. A lot of my brain thinks like the previous posters -- turn and burn. But don't want to do it. I want to figure out how to swallow stuff like this and move on. I think the simplest way is to focus on my own dalliances and flirtations and just assume its even.

[rocky2marie]

And as far as that special friend from AA -- she offered to call him on the phone and have me listen in. I said **** that ****. Don't want any part of it and don't want to be that guy. Reality is I found no evidence of "cheating". Just friendly banter. She didn't tell me about him because we had a deal that she was to have no male AA friends. Now I want to just let it vaporize and not freak the the **** out or get in my truck and leave town.

[Try]

Reality is I found no evidence of "cheating". Just friendly banter. She didn't tell me about him because we had a deal that she was to have no male AA friends. Now I want to just let it vaporize and not freak the the **** out or get in my truck and leave town.

First, if she agreed to "a deal that she was to have no male AA friends", her keeping such a friendship a secret from you is cheating all on its own no matter what they were saying. You made such a deal for a reason, it did not come out of thin air, so she must honor that deal until she openly discusses changing the deal prior to breaking it. Trust is the cornerstone of all relationships worth having. She violated that trust.

 

Second, those couples that do have OSF commonly have a boundary that such OSF must be a friend of their couple relationship, and must make you feel welcome. Her keeping this OSF a secret from you, means by definition that this OSF is breaking that standard boundary since it being a secret prevented that from happening.

[Space Ritual]

She didn't tell me about him because we had a deal that she was to have no male AA friends.

 

Young man,

 

One of the most important albeit difficult parts of being a member of a 12 step program such as NA or AA and successfully working that program is being honest not only with others that your drinking or drugging has affected, but being honest with yourself.

 

The above that I quoted from your reply demonstrates beyond a a=shadow of a doubt that she does not get it.Not being in a 12 step program, not doing the work necessary for her to be a safe person to be around, and not being honest.

 

Step 4 is "Making a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves".

 

Often this is the point where people depart from the program because to do so is often too much work and soul searching.

 

I doubt she is even anywhere near this. The only inventory she has personally taken is how much bullschnit she can feed you and you will accept .

 

She offered to call her AA friend because they already had it worked out what was to be said within your earshot. That is the oldest tick in the book.

 

You need to show her consequences. You are doing nothing short of enabling her by not holding her accountable.

 

I am sorry but it is true.

 

You seem to be totally codependent. Nothing s going to get better until you act. Rugsweeping this crap will only guarantee it will rear it's ugly head again when you least need it to.

 

I am very sorry, it may get better for a week, a month, or a year. But your relationship is doomed without any action on your part.

 

She is fine with not making a decision, you need to make one for her.

 

I am sorry you are hamstrung but you must act. And I mean soon.

Edited January 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[Try]

One of the most important albeit difficult parts of being a member of a 12 step program such as NA or AA and successfully working that program is being honest

This is a great point. Her telling you that "She didn't tell me about him because we had a deal that she was to have no male AA friends", and compare this to the AA basic requirement of total honesty, means that she is not only crossing boundaries with you for this other man (OM) from AA, but it also means that she is crossing boundaries that she agreed to with AA. Why is her relationship with this OM so important to her that she would do that?

[rocky2marie]

Not sure where you're talking about buddy.. What consequences can I possibly show her besides just leaving? Show no love? Beat her ass? Not have sex with her for a year? No. The only thing I could do is separate or leave outright. And I'm sorry but that's not happening over this. And that's no co-dependent, it's about protecting your kid from b.s. and not being a pussy.

I'm not subjecting him to a bunch of drama and pain and shame all because my wife "had a secret guy friend from AA". Because that would be on me wouldn't it? If she'd been caught cheating, sure, it fits the crime. But to be that much of a pussy that I'd call this "cheating" and bail because of it is over the top. Unless you had a totally different suggestion of how to impose consequences I'm all ears.

[rocky2marie]

The only one who's been "caught cheating" in this marriage is me -- many years ago. She didn't leave me. She tortured me for seven years. Which is just another reason I don't really feel like I have moral right to terminate the marriage. Though that debt is more than paid.

[usa1ah]

Sorry to say this, she has already cheated in her heart and mind. She just never pulled the trigger.

 

Or she is lying through her teeth.

 

Your really believe she didn't cheat in Vegas? Out all night. You have your head buried in the sand. Anyway it is your life. If you want to live like this it's your choice.

 

Good Luck.

[angel.eyes]

I have a somewhat different perspective.

 

You cheated on her for a long time early in the relationship. She seems to be struggling with that, even now. Did you both address that? How damaging it was to your relationship and to her? How it destroyed her trust and ruined her sense of security and belief in your relationship? Were there changes you had to make? It sounds like you feel her bringing up your affair for seven years was sufficient "punishment." If that's all that happened, then you basically rugswept your affair. The fallout continues to fester just beneath the surface of your marriage because it was never properly addressed.

 

My suggestion: find a good marriage counselor. Both of you will need to commit to counseling together.

[usa1ah]

Angel.eyes, I think you need to read op's first post again. He said a fling before they were in a committed relationship. Was he wrong to do so yes.

 

She iced him out for six years. Did they handle what happened the right way no. Even so they have serious issues.

 

What she has already admitted to is cheating. If she would never have done it in front of OP.

[rocky2marie]

Thanks for the responses guys. I think I've got my consensus answer: it's pretty much cheating. Therapist keeps telling me to get over it. "She's a human being. It's just thoughts. Maybe some near misses." He's right. She's human. And going through a mid-life and wants attention. But BOY am I feeling no bueno about it and on high alert these days.

[Space Ritual]

Thanks for the responses guys. I think I've got my consensus answer: it's pretty much cheating. Therapist keeps telling me to get over it. "She's a human being. It's just thoughts. Maybe some near misses." He's right. She's human. And going through a mid-life and wants attention. But BOY am I feeling no bueno about it and on high alert these days.

 

Sorry you did not like what I had to tell you, Not surprised. Most people don't like to hear their situation is not unique and easily remedied with growing a backbone.

 

Hope you have a new broom and braces for your elbow pain after all the rug sweeping you are about to do. The dust of inaction is never going to be cleaned without tackling it head on so be prepared to work a lot of hours on that floor. May I suggest Alleve PM so you can get some sleep as well as attempting to alleviate the pain while your better half works her AA program with reckless abandon.

 

 

You'll be back in the Spring. And we will still be here with the same thing we already told you.

Good Luck

[rocky2marie]

Spoken like every false prophet AA lifer who sits in rooms trying to levitate like a fake guru but really just hammering away un-researched, unilateral and mostly deeply warped and angry views. You know exactly the type I’m talking about. If you're that much of an expert and really believe anything you read in the big book you'll know that you don’t know anything about me, my wife or my situation based on one post or even 20. And you definitely don’t have the life experience to condescend to me buddy, I've lived a little myself. I'm on here posting because I'm jealous and pissed and needed someone to hear it. Not throwing away my wife and my young son with her IS having backbone -- not the other way around.

[S2B]

Why not ask your wife to actually work all 12 steps of the program she says she is involved in?

 

dOING the steps is the program - meetings are more social...and unnecessary IF she's really wanting to "do" AA.

 

It's a program of action designed to make each person the best they can be.

 

Your wife obviously hasn't done the steps.

 

If she had she wouldn't be doing what she's done.

 

Ask her...the steps improve every person that does them. I've sponsored more than 150 people (men and women) and I've never been inappropriate with any men I've worked with - that would go against the idea of the programs...we wish to be helpful.

[Space Ritual]

Spoken like every false prophet AA lifer who sits in rooms trying to levitate like a fake guru but really just hammering away un-researched, unilateral and mostly deeply warped and angry views. You know exactly the type I’m talking about. If you're that much of an expert and really believe anything you read in the big book you'll know that you don’t know anything about me, my wife or my situation based on one post or even 20. And you definitely don’t have the life experience to condescend to me buddy, I've lived a little myself. I'm on here posting because I'm jealous and pissed and needed someone to hear it. Not throwing away my wife and my young son with her IS having backbone -- not the other way around.

 

You have me wrong. I am not a regular member of 12 step program chapter anymore. I was for a number of years and sponsored a handful of addicts and alcoholics but in the end it was not for me. I was a regular at the tables for close to a decade and used to do the Guest Speaker tour of area chapters of NA and used to go to Detox and Treatment centers and volunteer some of my time because I felt it was the least I could do.

 

As much as I have tried to work a program over these past 2 decades ultimately I did not continue because as the years went on I lost my belief in a Higher Power and ultimately I lost all Spiritual faith whatsoever. Faith and belief in a Higher Power is one of the most important aspects of 12 step programs because in order work your steps and work your program you are asked early on to surrender to that Higher Power.

 

Some folks truly need that portion and rely on it, sometimes to get through the next minute. And I never find fault with that.

 

Some people lose their faith and totally shytecan the program and go back out and drink and drug and it gets worse for them and sometimes they come back, more often they don't.

 

But none of their situations, nor mine, are unique.

 

I may be many things, and among them 2 stand out. And those are that I may be clean and sober, but I will always be a alcoholic an an addict.

 

 

 

I'm so sorry you think your situation is unique, OP.

 

It isn't.

 

And sadly yes, I myself and pretty much most people that are long time members here can pretty much predict with a far amount of accuracy what will happen next if you sweep this under the rug.

 

If you read these and other forums, you will become somewhat familiar with term called "The Cheaters Handbook".

 

It isn't that there is an actual one, it is that over the course of the past few decades since there were online forums and digital forms of communications accessible to the common man, people who have come here and other places dealing with a cheater more often tan not, they have literally the same Modus Operandi. And the story usually only ends well for people that actually act with some sort of decisiveness and tackle it head on, be it good or bad.

 

It is possible to survive and thrive after infidelity quire well, but you have to be prepared to end a relationship in order to even consider saving it.

 

The victim must be willing to walk away and the cheater must be willing to do the hard work necessary to make themself a safe person to be around, not only for their partner, but for themselves, so they can learn what it means to be trustworthy again.

 

In that regard, cheaters are not that far divorced from addicts like me.

 

Usually too daunting a task either way, and that's why sweeping infidelity under the rug by "nicing" someone back and acting like it never happened is a recipe for it to happen again.

 

You must think I want you to gt cheated on by your reply. That is the farthest thing from the truth. My harshness is intended to motivate you into some sort of action.

 

Just shrugging your shoulders and paying somebody to tell you to get over it flies not only in the face of your best interest, but also flies in the face of common sense.

 

You can tell me to ***** off all you want, and that is perfectly natural. But remember I don't have to wake up in the morning next to a person who you know will just continue to sit on the fence for as log as you refuse to knock her off of it.

 

So in parting I just want you to consider doing SOMETHING about this situation you find yourself in. Doing nothing is also a choice, but make a decision ether way.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Space Ritual