Author rocky2marie Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 i've only read her diaries twice. Once six years ago and once recently. no fun! Good idea about the lie detector test. ha! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Blunt Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 By Blunt I ask you a question reprinted below in my last post but you did not answer. "Are you willing to take strong action in order to have a chance at changing your wife so that you are always her number one man and she not seek other men to replace you in some capacity?" You did answer in your last post. By Rocky I'd have endured anything and would do it all over again for him to have two parents in the house. We've learned to love each other about 1000% better. We have sex literally every day though we're in our 40s. Best I ever had actually. And it gets better on all fronts every day. By Blunt Rocky you answered my question by your words above. You have decided that your marriage and her actions that worry you are negative but overall the positive outweigh the negative. You are willing to compromise and not take strong action to try and change things about you not being number one in everything. You started this thread and asked the question of us if we feel that your wife is cheating. My simple answer is yes. However, you are satisfied enough with your marriage so I wish you the best. It is your life and your marriage and you have chosen to do what is best for you and your family. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 What more could you want? Honesty. And seriously my exH and I were having sex everyday too when I found out he was cheating - some days multiple times we had sex each day. Just because you're having sex now doesn't indicate no cheating. It threw off my scent and it keeps the partner quiet for a while...until the time comes when there's evidence to prove cheating. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 How did you get from this: So I started having round the clock panic attacks, taking pills to sleep. To this: But it's not all bad. It's not even more than 50% bad. It's actually about 75% great...We've learned to love each other about 1000% better. We have sex literally every day though we're in our 40s. Best I ever had actually. And it gets better on all fronts everyday. Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Therapy. And the path isn't exactly linear. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Therapy. And the path isn't exactly linear. Do you still take pills? Have you had issues at all with addiction? Link to post Share on other sites
Cephalopod Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Not one person can understand the relationship of another. They're as individuated as fingerprints. Most of us will disagree. Actually, the patterns of behavior leading up to affairs, and the behavior of a wayward after exposure, is pretty consistent across the board. I'm afraid that you are buying into a fallacy that somehow your wife's behavior is unusual and unique, or that you and her have some unique marriage with unique problems. Maybe is some aspects, but for the most your wife's behavior is rather typical and follows the cheaters' script almost to the letter. I too once thought that the way my exWW treated me was unique and bizarre, but after visiting these sites and learning about the patterns of adultery, I came to realize that my exWW was a typical, lowdown, lying snake-in-the grass, narcissistic cheat. Once I accepted that reality, it was much easier to heal and move forward, now that I had knocked her off that pedestal I had her on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Actually, the patterns of behavior leading up to affairs, and the behavior of a wayward after exposure, is pretty consistent across the board. Couldn't agree more. There's such an eerie commonality to many of the infidelity threads that it's hard at times to tell them apart. "Person with poor communication skills/conflict-avoidant personality rationalizes a choice to seek emotional/physical validation elsewhere and then revises marital history to support actions and blame spouse". Lather, rinse, repeat... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Do you still take pills? Have you had issues at all with addiction? No. Not since the "radical truth" weeks of last year. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Couldn't agree more. There's such an eerie commonality to many of the infidelity threads that it's hard at times to tell them apart. "Person with poor communication skills/conflict-avoidant personality rationalizes a choice to seek emotional/physical validation elsewhere and then revises marital history to support actions and blame spouse". Lather, rinse, repeat... Mr. Lucky So what do you do if you're me? And I don't mean the cryptic "are you prepared to take extreme action" as some posters have suggested. I don't want a don't ask don't tell relationship. Nor do I want an open one. My wife has not confessed to wanting either. But she did say to me multiple times and to the therapist "I don't care what he does as long as I don't know about it." And the therapist replied "Can you see how that makes him think you're cheating? Double standards don't work with fidelity." All I can do is 1. live with it, 2. hire a PI or escalate surveillance in the hopes of catching her Or 3. divorce her now with no case. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 All I can do is 1. live with it, 2. hire a PI or escalate surveillance in the hopes of catching her Or 3. divorce her now with no case. I'd throw out #2, you already know something inappropriate has gone down. So it's really a choice between #1 and #3. In your situation a long time ago, I chose #1. We had a young child together and I was motivated to work things out. Unfortunately, my ex-wife had made her own choice - dangle hope in front of me while she pursued other options. So we eventually divorced, could have saved myself alot of grief had I gone there directly. YMMV... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Cephalopod Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So what do you do if you're me? And I don't mean the cryptic "are you prepared to take extreme action" as some posters have suggested. I don't want a don't ask don't tell relationship. Nor do I want an open one. My wife has not confessed to wanting either. But she did say to me multiple times and to the therapist "I don't care what he does as long as I don't know about it." And the therapist replied "Can you see how that makes him think you're cheating? Double standards don't work with fidelity." All I can do is 1. live with it, 2. hire a PI or escalate surveillance in the hopes of catching her Or 3. divorce her now with no case. I say go with 3. If I was married and I had a wife who said what yours said, I would interpret that as her saying that she simply doesn't give a rat's ass about you or her marriage. "I don't care what he does" is the same as her saying "I have detached from him so far that nothing he says or does affects me in the slightest. If he walked out into the street and got mowed down by a cement truck, I wouldn't care." Talk about disrespect.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I say go with 3. If I was married and I had a wife who said what yours said, I would interpret that as her saying that she simply doesn't give a rat's ass about you or her marriage. "I don't care what he does" is the same as her saying "I have detached from him so far that nothing he says or does affects me in the slightest. If he walked out into the street and got mowed down by a cement truck, I wouldn't care." Talk about disrespect.... Yeah it freaked me out too. She backtracked saying it was just the protection mechanism she built up after my cheating. As a child of parents who should have been divorced and stayed divorced when I was 4 and didn't I have been THE biggest troll on unhappy married people staying together. Would recommend divorce to myself all day. But I've got no grounds. No EVIDENCE of actual infidelity. Also my most staunch friends -- who know me and my wife --- have responded to this in the "you have to stay together" mode. "you two are for life -- you have to work it out." It's what I want. It's what she supposedly wants. It's what our kid wants (unlike my childhood we don't fight in front of him and he's super ****ing happy when we're together) It's what our therapist wants. Its' what our friends want. But MAN O ****ING MAN. If i invest more YEARS into this only to find at the end of the line that she's off to other **** I'm going to be PISSSSSSED. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey born raised Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hearing you loud and clear. Have you ever discussed how she treated you when you where sick? Does this play into your thoughts, it would mine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hearing you loud and clear. Have you ever discussed how she treated you when you where sick? Does this play into your thoughts, it would mine. Haha. We discuss that every week! Always comes up. She's apologized many times. Says she was afraid. Said she was resentful that she had to work while I recovered. Also probably still mad at my cheating. But yes it most DEFinitely plays and preys on my thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hearing you loud and clear. Finally someone expressing empathy. Thanks Jersey Born. Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey born raised Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Have you ever heard the term " covert agreement"? It occurs when one person assumes because of actions on their part, others will respond in a similar fashion. I recall in the 70s, 80s, .... Americans felt disrespected by the french no matter how nice they treated the French. I remember a guy who lived there for over a decade saying, the French hate each other, why the hell should they like you! The Americans where engaging in a form of covert agreement. I think your wife engaged in a form of covert agreement regarding fidelity when she became pregnant. Your affair she saw/sees as infidelity, notice I used the term infidelity not adultery. Her belief in a broken covert agreement led to her actions when she froze you out for six years and was indifferent when you became ill. This broken covert agreement hit her every bit as hard as her lack of feeling when you became ill hit you. Both are open gaping sores tst Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey born raised Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Need to heal. It does not matter what the facts where in regards to the infidelity. It is her belief rooted in her emotions. Accept this and treated it like she was right. Are you using any type of MC? Finally option 3 all the way but be covert about it. She is at an age when radical shifts in behavior occur, so be concerned. So work on good boundaries. Good boundaries are like seat belts, they keep you safe when the **** hits the fan. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Need to heal. Are you using any type of MC? Finally option 3 all the way but be covert about it. She is at an age when radical shifts in behavior occur, so be concerned. So work on good boundaries. Good boundaries are like seat belts, they keep you safe when the **** hits the fan. Interesting points. Need a little layman's explication. What do you mean by boundaries? By MC do you mean Marriage counselor? If so yes. See him weekly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Divorce her but be covert? Forgot to mention we also work together and run a business together. Very entangled. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) If she didn't forgive you ... why did you move forward to marriage? I don't agree this is a divorce situation, but why does she wish she had an affair? Because she could have? Because you weren't enough? To get even? Missed this post. We never actually talked about why she said she wanted an affair. I just assumed it was because she could have. Or was getting older. Or we'd been together so long. She had me listen to all these TED talks by this french marriage counselor about fidelity. None of which I really enjoyed hearing. Was all about how affairs are just human nature. And how "good flirting" is essential to ones health. Was when she was trying to calm me down after I started freaking out about her admitting to "flirting". In fact defending her right to heavily flirt. When I said "I don't want you to flirt like that or go out drinking with OS co-workers while on vacation" she angrily defended herself "You're gonna shut me down!? You're gonna shut me down??" I said you're disrespecting me as your husband to do that. When she came home from that ill fated Vegas trip hung over as hell she admitted to having had six cocktails while dancing (with all male co-workers ) and I just about flipped the **** out. She said she went back to her hotel room because she was slurring and couldn't speak. But no cheating. I said "Ok honey. I believe you." Then I went to a bar and proceeded to have six cocktails just as an experiment. I was blind drunk -- no self control. I could've done anything with anyone. And I'm 6'4 200 lbs. She's 5'6 140. Do the math. Next day I told her I didn't believe her as far as I could throw a moose that she didn't cheat but that even still -- getting that wasted with ALL guys was cheating all by itself. She agreed and apologized very profusely and promised to never do again. I spent about 40 days and nights not sleeping with my stomach in my chest. Just working out everyday. Saw my whole life flashing before my eyes. But incredibly months of time (and no actual proof of ****ing) made it subside. Edited January 12, 2017 by rocky2marie Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 With the counselor have you explained to your wife how she has made you feel? While sick? While getting drunk in Vegas? Etc? What are you bringing up during counseling that can get resolved to make you both feel closer again? It IS up to YOU to bring up your concerns so you can all work THROUGH them to the other side. How are you participating during the counseling sessions? What assignments has the counselor given you two? What have you both done with those assignments? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) With the counselor have you explained to your wife how she has made you feel? While sick? While getting drunk in Vegas? Etc? What are you bringing up during counseling that can get resolved to make you both feel closer again? It IS up to YOU to bring up your concerns so you can all work THROUGH them to the other side. How are you participating during the counseling sessions? What assignments has the counselor given you two? What have you both done with those assignments? I've brought up as much as I could handle. The problem is I hear things I don't want to and become very reactive. i.e.: "I need to flirt" "I'm getting older and want attention from OS". "If in a perfect world where you wouldn't be affected I'd like to experience falling in love again. But I'd never actually do it" ?? And the therapist treats this as just all just very normal and modern. Maybe it is. For me it's like having my feet burned with hot irons and I start hyperventilating and just want to get a divorce or revenge cheat. We've since just stopped talking about "sexuality outside the marriage" Counselor has only told us to not cheat or hardcore flirt for the time being! And to watch out for and try to define patterns -- "the cycle" he calls it, of when she does things that trigger me and vice versa and we spiral downward. Edited January 12, 2017 by rocky2marie Link to post Share on other sites
Author rocky2marie Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 The vibe that really both counselor and my wife have established re: me is that I'm overreacting to ghosts and should just accept the reality of my wife as a whole person -- a sexual creature with eyes and desires beyond the marriage. They both are fairly exasperated about how after many sessions I can't get past things she's said, done... even though no proof of cheating is on the table. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The vibe that really both counselor and my wife have established re: me is that I'm overreacting to ghosts and should just accept the reality of my wife as a whole person -- a sexual creature with eyes and desires beyond the marriage. They both are fairly exasperated about how after many sessions I can't get past things she's said, done... even though no proof of cheating is on the table. Any good counselor should be acknowledging your feelings and finding reasons to open discussions about why you feel that way as well as resolutions your wife can provide you so you don't feel that way in the future - but that's after much discussion about what caused those feelings. Time to search out a new counselor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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