My wife's contempt and resentment

[Cumberdale]

First of all hello everyone.

 

How does one deal with this issue?

 

It's been whittling away at the love in our marriage for years now; the sneers when I speak or sometimes just when I walk in the room. The reactions as if what I just said is the stupidest thing she ever heard. The "who do you think you are" when I offer even the gentlest constructive criticism or suggest we might do something differently. And her conviction that I have some nefarious motive to undermine and manipulate her with everything I say and do. For example: asking me what I was whispering to one of the children behind her back a few minutes ago, and all I can do is look at her slack jawed and think "wtf is she talking about..?"

 

Is this emotional abuse? Even that phrase sounds like self piteous hyperbole to me. I'm pretty resilient and actually quite independent emotionally. But I would so love to be in a healthy, loving relationship. With empathy and kindness and warmth, and a generosity in how you perceive your partners intentions. It's so hurtful when your partner assumes you are always working against her.

 

The part that is really getting me down is that she really has no idea what she's doing. If I bring it up she basically states that whatever disrespect she shows to me is entirely justified for one reason or another. Or the irony of all of it, that she then thinks she is the one being bullied by me.

 

For the majority of our marriage (of 10 years)I've suspected that she has some kind of condition, don't ask me what, as I'm no psychologist. Without wanting to sound like a patronising prick, she somehow just doesn't quite get how to be in a loving relationship.

 

I loved her dearly when we were first married. Right now, I can quite earnestly say that I would have left some time ago if not for our children.

 

I've got a whole bucketload to get off my chest, honestly I could write all day long but I feel like this is too ranty already, I just hoped that someone can relate to what I'm dealing with.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Cumberdale
Forgot to say hello.

[Friskyone4u]

Cumber,

 

I know you do not want to hear this, but her behavior points to a few things that are not good for you

(1) she is checked out of the marriage

(2) there is another man involved here.

 

Unless she is a mental case or nasty person, you better get your antenaes up my friend. it is very common for women in affairs to hate on their husbands, find reasons why they are pigs, and argue with them all the time. That makes the cheating justified and her deserving because you are such an ass hole in her eyes.

 

There's not enough information here to say anything certain but if you do not think this is a possibility it's time to get your head out of the sand and find out

 

You might want to start by googling "Is your wife cheating" and if you see a lot of those red flags, time to come back here and get some specific advice. And for starters if she guards her phone like it is Ft Knox, thats the first red flag.

[Jersey born raised]

Let's start with her childhood (family of origin / FOO) what was/is her parents relationship like? What are her Sibs relationships like?

 

Yea, it could be her. Let's eliminate that first. This might be a good start https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/dsm-5-the-ten-personality-disorders-cluster-b/

 

Above all else you need to grasp one thing: sometimes it is them, not you.

[Popsicle]

Read John Gottman's "Why Marriages Succeed or Fail: And How you Can Make Your Last". It specifically addresses Contempt and Resentment.

 

 

 

[basil67]

You feel like you're being treated with resentment and contempt. She feels she's being bullied by you.

 

I suspect both of you are doing things wrong. Have you done any marriage counselling?

[whichwayisup]

I doubt she's cheating, she's just not emotionally or physically into you anymore. Sadly it happens and she's shut herself off. You annoy her.

 

You've done nothing wrong that deserves that kind of treatment.

 

Is it possible she's depressed or suffering from bi polar? Just wondering if others too have noticed changes or is it just towards you?

 

Your kids see an unhappy couple as parents, they see the dynamic which overall isn't good for the whole family unit.

 

It'll be hard but sit her down and be honest. Marriage counseling with you to learn how to communicate and reconnect, give the marriage your best shot to fix it together or divorce if she is unwilling to put in effort. Living life as it is now isn't fair to any of you, especially the kids.

[Cumberdale]

Thank You all very much for your replies. I'll address some of the points made.

 

Is she having an affair?.

I have to say in our case I'm pretty certain this isn't hapning. She dedicates herself 150% to being a mother, and her own mother is heavily involved in childcare too and would sniff it out and give her a proper roasting if she was playing away from home.

 

Plus quite simply her character is utterly guileless and without pretence - I don't think she would be able to have an affair covertly. If she was seeing another man, she would have had no problem just telling me that's how it is.

 

She does guard her phone, although I have had cause to look at it now and then and not found anything from other guys. What she is afraid of me seeing is her text conversations with her mum, her friends, my mum, about how horrible I am to her and how lazy, controlling etc etc. And she is always suspicious of my own phone because she thinks I'm doing the same about her (which I assure you I'm not).

 

 

Her family background.

She comes from a fantastic supportive and loving family. Her parents are successful and live in a beautiful cottage in a rural area and like me, she had a pretty ideal childhood. She has one sister three years younger who is the most patient, kind and thoughtful woman you could ever hope to meet. When we are visiting them and my wife gives me 'the treatment', often an understanding glance will be exchanged between her mum and I, but nothing is ever said.

 

Directly speaking to her parents reveals they don't know what to do. "She has always been difficult to live with" they say. In the back of my mind I wonder if they suspect some issues but are in denial and always have been.

 

The only thing I can pin on her childhood is that she was bullied at one school and had to move. Nobody likes to talk about it much. I wonder if this is part of what made her super defensive of criticism or different opinions.

 

Marriage counselling.

We did go to a few sessions of counselling earlier in 2016. I found it personally very useful as I was able to delve into my inner self and find ways of strengthening myself through this. And just to talk to someone impartial about it all.

 

However, she never really engaged with it. After each session all she seemed to have taken on board is the things that the counsellor said I should think about, and the suggestions made to her completely forgotten. Plus after a few sessions her mother decided we were paying too much money for them and dissuaded her from going any more. She refused to babysit while we attended counselling because we weren't overflowing with joy when we arrived home (bear in mind we went through quite emotionally grueling sessions) and she took this to mean we were ungrateful for her babysitting.

 

I carried on going alone for a few sessions and it helped me personally in a general way to think about protecting myself emotionally and also realising that what is happening is not ok. As a result of the personal counselling I made a lot of changes - I quit a videogames habit, I took up running and started to get a lot fitter and healthier, I started to focus on my business and made improvements there too.

 

The catch here is that in becoming a better man, I am starting to have better expectations of my marriage as well.

[elaine567]

Unless she has valid reasons for her resentment in your marriage, then I believe this all probably started in childhood ("She has always been difficult to live with") and whilst all may look "wonderful" on the surface, then I guess something was wrong with her childhood relationships.

Her mother refusing to babysit and dissuading her daughter from attending counselling is a bit suspicious.

Maybe her mother is just a person who doesn't believe in counselling full stop, or she may not want "the past" exposed, if the counsellor goes too deep and starts to question "things", things that may have been long hidden...

Even the most "wonderful" families can be highly dysfunctional if looked at with a critical and analytical eye. Add in the childhood bullying and she may be a very mixed up kid indeed. Dysfunctional Family Roles

 

Contempt is one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, it is a very bad sign and if your wife will not consider more MC then things are unlikely to improve as the behaviour becomes ingrained. Both of you are probably showing contempt for each other now and it has become a vicious cycle. It doesn't need to be full blown fighting or name-calling or obvious abuse, an unconscious quick curl of the lip or a roll of the eyes may say it all. Couples who live with contempt are more prone to poor health not only mental health, but physical health too.

Appreciation is the key to neutralising contempt, but both need to be fully on board.

[spanz1]

Well, if you tried counselling and it failed....unless it was a piss poor counselor, I would say it is over. Talk to a lawyer, separate your finances, etc. Time to find a loving partner for the rest of your life.

 

 

I am sure your children will understand, having seen the abuse you presumably put up with every day. You do not want them growing up thinking that that abuse is a "normal" marriage. By not leaving, you might be dooming them to follow in your footsteps?

[BluesPower]

Yes, what spanz said...

 

OK, lets say she is not having an affair.

 

And, let's say that you are not a horrible controlling prick, let's just say.

 

Then she is nuts. Bat-S*** crazy. And yes you need to divorce.

 

You are probably scared to divorce because you are not really confident with women, and maybe you let yourself go, or what ever.

 

That is stuff that you just have to get over.

 

But let me tell you this...

 

I have lived with my wife for 26 years, I have/and do love her deeply. And I just realized that the reason that she has put me through all of the things that she has is really simple. She does not love me, she loves for me to provide for her, she knows I am a great father and grand father, but she really never loved me.

 

Brother, you can look up some of my stuff if you want to know more, but here is the deal. I have been with a lot of women the last few years that I would not allow myself to fall in love with, but most of them just loved me to death. I have finally started to understand that I am worthy to be loved. And you know what, I have let some of them love me.

 

Guess what??? It feels great to be with a woman that actually loves you. I am not sure why I was quite so stupid in the first place. Turn out that, besides all the cheating, I am actually kind of a great guy. And, women love that.

 

What I am saying is this. Get out now, get out as fast as you can. When you find a woman that actually loves you, you will actually want to cry for all the years that you stayed with your wife, who by the way does not love you at all. As a matter of fact, she actually hates your guts, she just does not want to get a divorce, and have to work for a living.

 

Don't live this way...

[Cumberdale]

Yes, what spanz said...

 

OK, lets say she is not having an affair.

 

And, let's say that you are not a horrible controlling prick, let's just say.

 

Then she is nuts. Bat-S*** crazy. And yes you need to divorce.

 

You are probably scared to divorce because you are not really confident with women, and maybe you let yourself go, or what ever.

 

That is stuff that you just have to get over.

 

But let me tell you this...

 

I have lived with my wife for 26 years, I have/and do love her deeply. And I just realized that the reason that she has put me through all of the things that she has is really simple. She does not love me, she loves for me to provide for her, she knows I am a great father and grand father, but she really never loved me.

 

Brother, you can look up some of my stuff if you want to know more, but here is the deal. I have been with a lot of women the last few years that I would not allow myself to fall in love with, but most of them just loved me to death. I have finally started to understand that I am worthy to be loved. And you know what, I have let some of them love me.

 

Guess what??? It feels great to be with a woman that actually loves you. I am not sure why I was quite so stupid in the first place. Turn out that, besides all the cheating, I am actually kind of a great guy. And, women love that.

 

What I am saying is this. Get out now, get out as fast as you can. When you find a woman that actually loves you, you will actually want to cry for all the years that you stayed with your wife, who by the way does not love you at all. As a matter of fact, she actually hates your guts, she just does not want to get a divorce, and have to work for a living.

 

Don't live this way...

 

Thanks Bluespower, this struck a chord because I've thought exactly what you desccribe many times.

 

I'm scared to death of divorce because of seperation from my kids, primarily - also the feeling of letting the whole family down who have thrown support at us for the last 10 years but sadly have never quite been able to offer anything helpful in the situation I described. And I feel partly responsible for living a lie for 10 years, playing the part of a man who is happy with the way things are.

 

But as I stated before I have kind of embarked on a self-improvement program of health, enlightenment, career improvement and discipline over the last year. I just turned 40 and I feel like I'm happier in my own skin, fitter and more confident than I was at 20. I'm also more belligerent toward bull****. The initial intention of my self improvement was to be a better man, husband and father and therefore earn the respect and love that I crave. There is a problem though. Once you hold yourself to higher standards, you then expect higher standards of your relationships and those in them. If anything, my transformation has just made me less likely to tolerate this situation. Now I feel like I am just in training for the inevitable switch to living by myself.

[BluesPower]

I get that and I figured that was where you are at.

 

Listen to me about this, your children know that you are unhappy. They may not say anything but they know.

 

You would be a better "happy part time father" than your are a "full time miserable father". So you need to lose that fear. My children are grown for the most part, and even with the things that they have seen they will hurt for a while when the divorce happens, and it will soon. But they will get over it.

 

I am 52, and honest to god you cannot imagine the things that I have been through for 26 years. As much as I love my wife, it was never enough to fix her and it never will be. For the longest time I just thought that my love for her was enough that I could continue to be a martyr. I did that for so long that I kind of thought it was normal.

 

Dude, it is not normal. There is something wrong with people like us that think we should take some of the stuff that we do.

 

Some of the women that I have been with love me so much. And frankly I just don't deserve the love that some of them have for me. But even after I have broken up with them, they still love me.

 

I just decided to quit fighting and let myself be loved, even if I don't deserve it.

 

Don't let yourself live the way that you are. Too many people do this and they turn their back on love. How stupid is that?

 

I have been a fool in so many ways, and that silliness is over for me. I may not ever be able to love another woman the way I love my wife, But I am going to give it a shot.

 

And you know what, you should give it a shot as well.

[lilypad10]

The way you lay out the story sounds rational, level-headed, and it appears that she is truly out of line. However, I would ask, is your constructive criticism/pointing out how to do things in a different way perceived as such by her? She may not feel it is as gentle as you do when it comes out of your mouth. In relationships, it's normal to always want to be the one who's "right," and maybe she's not open to being told she is wrong in the ways above. Are you approaching your differences by starting out noting what you DO agree on? Or asking her questions to try to come to the right conclusion herself?

 

If so, and she is still opposed to any negotiations, meeting in the middle, etc, it seems as if her ego is too large to stay in a healthy relationship at this point of her life. It is unfortunate that she didn't do particularly well in counseling. The issues that you've brought up, if she truly is that unreasonable and unwilling to work with you, are absolutely dealbreakers and I would not be able to stand for it.

[Cumberdale]

The way you lay out the story sounds rational, level-headed, and it appears that she is truly out of line. However, I would ask, is your constructive criticism/pointing out how to do things in a different way perceived as such by her? She may not feel it is as gentle as you do when it comes out of your mouth. In relationships, it's normal to always want to be the one who's "right," and maybe she's not open to being told she is wrong in the ways above. Are you approaching your differences by starting out noting what you DO agree on? Or asking her questions to try to come to the right conclusion herself?

 

If so, and she is still opposed to any negotiations, meeting in the middle, etc, it seems as if her ego is too large to stay in a healthy relationship at this point of her life. It is unfortunate that she didn't do particularly well in counseling. The issues that you've brought up, if she truly is that unreasonable and unwilling to work with you, are absolutely dealbreakers and I would not be able to stand for it.

 

Thank You Lilypad,

 

However I put it, she perceives criticism as a personal attack. She is especially defensive of her matriarchal role - she takes motherhood VERY seriously. There isn't really any discussion. If I do what you suggest and steer the conversation to make her think it through herself and 'come to the right conclusion', her spider-senses go off and she immediately thinks I'm manipulating her, or she throws her arms up saying "you always have to be right/go against what I say".

 

This relates to other issue I eluded to; she seems to think I'm conspiring against her. So even the slightest and most tentative suggestion that she might change the way she does things is taken as me undermining her and sowing doubt, even trying to make her look bad in front of the children.

 

This is really one of the main things that is wearing me down. Being regarded as a saboteur or a manipulator is hurtful. Call me a delicate snowflake, but when I make a suggestion, even if it's a stupid one, I want my partner to think "well that's a stupid suggestion, BUT, his heart is in the right place". She can call me pathetic or selfish or mean, but the implication I'm actually 'out to get her' is like a kick in the guts because it undermines the small amount of hope I have for our future. I'm just fed up with it now.

 

I'm ranting again lol

Edited December 31, 2016 by Cumberdale
spelling

[Downtown]

Cumber, I agree with Jersey and Elaine that you may be describing issues that originated in early childhood and thus may have altered your W's core personality.

 

For the majority of our marriage (of 10 years)I've suspected that she has some kind of condition, don't ask me what, as I'm no psychologist.

Cumber, if your W exhibits strong symptoms of a personality disorder (PD), you don't have to be a psychologist to spot them. Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD.

 

Moreover, you could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD (Borderline PD) traits when they occur.

 

I mention this because the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the paranoid spin on your harmless statements, verbal abuse, controlling attitude, black-white thinking, arrogance, lack of empathy, and her belief that she is always "The Victim" -- are a few of the warning signs for BPD and NPD. Yet, if she really is exhibiting a strong pattern of BPD or NPD symptoms, you should be seeing most of the symptoms, not just the few you mentioned here.

 

I therefore am providing a link below that points to a list of BPD warning signs -- so you can decide, for yourself, whether you're seeing most of the BPD red flags at a strong and persistent level. If not, I would suggest you follow my link to a list of NPD symptoms.

 

The part that is really getting me down is that she really has no idea what she's doing.

If she really is a BPDer (i.e., has most traits at a strong and persistent level), she likely believes nearly all of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. And then, a week later when she is claiming the exact opposite, she likely will be convinced that is true also.

 

This occurs because a BPDer's perception of reality is largely dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Like a young child, a BPDer does not intellectually challenge the accuracy of an intense feeling. Hence, when that feeling changes tomorrow or next week, a BPDer may change her views greatly.

 

Or the irony of all of it, that she then thinks she is the one being bullied by me.

Whereas a narcissist seeks frequent validation that she is very special and nearly perfect, a BPDer seeks validation that she is "The Victim." The result is that both narcissists and BPDers will get angry when you disagree with them -- but for different reasons. Whereas the narcissist gets angry because you've stopped agreeing that she is special and nearly perfect, the BPDer gets angry because you've stopped agreeing that you are at fault for all her misfortunes (i.e., stop agreeing that you are the perpetrator and she is "The Victim").

 

Without wanting to sound like a patronizing prick, she somehow just doesn't quite get how to be in a loving relationship.

That is true for both narcissists and BPDers. There is an important difference, however. Whereas a narcissist is unable to love anyone (viewing them, instead, as objects), a BPDer is able to love intensely -- but in the immature way that a young child is able to love. That immature love is insufficient to sustain a healthy R/S between two adults.

 

Moreover, because a BPDer cannot tolerate strong conflicting feelings, she will split off one of the conflicting feelings, putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. This is why a BPDer, like an angry young child, is able to flip from adoring you to hating you in just ten seconds. And, then a day or a month later, she is capable of flipping back just as quickly. At some point, however, a BPDer may stop flipping and "split you black" permanently.

 

She then thinks she is the one being bullied by me.

If she has strong BPD traits, she is filled with so much self loathing that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. Her subconscious therefore will work 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting all hurtful thoughts and feelings onto YOU.

 

Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously be convinced that those thoughts and feelings really are coming from YOU. The beauty of projection -- and the reason BPDers rely on it heavily instead of lying as an ego defense -- is that it is entirely guilt free. A person doesn't feel guilty when making false allegations she actually believes to be true.

 

How does one deal with this issue?

I suggest you see an experienced psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your kids are dealing with. Whenever BPD or NPD is a strong possibility, your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion is to see a psychologist who has not treated or seen your W. That way, you're assured that he is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers.

 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If not, I would suggest you read about NPD Warning Signs. If the BPD or NPD description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Jersey, Elaine and other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD and NPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid spending the rest of your life in a toxic marriage and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Learning the red flags also may help you decide whether the issues are sufficiently serious to warrant spending time and money on obtaining professional advice.

[spanz1]

But as I stated before I have kind of embarked on a self-improvement program of health, enlightenment, career improvement and discipline over the last year. I just turned 40 and I feel like I'm happier in my own skin, fitter and more confident than I was at 20.

 

you might want to try out some sort of martial arts, like judo, karate, qi gong, Tai Chi, etc. These sports improve your health AND improve your mind too....let you focus

[Calmandfocused]

Hi.

 

I'm wondering of there's some more to the story? I'm not defending your wife's behaviour in any way. I'm wondering whether there have been some triggering factors that started all this?

 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm currently going through a divorce and feelings of contempt and resentment have been rife from my end. Why? Because he treated me absolutely appalling and despite the evidence could never admit to doing anything wrong. I resented him enormously. It came to the point where I would feel hatred towards him if he so much as entered a room. I'd be tormented by memories of things he did/said. In other words he no longer had to do anything for me to feel distressed by him.

 

Have you looked at yourself and asked yourself honestly if there's anything you've done that distressed your wife? If so, have you honestly owned it and apologised for your role in this distress? Look hard. People don't generally resent people for no reason.

 

The only other possible reason could be that she just wants out. For reasons only she will know.

[oldshirt]

The potential issues here are -

 

- she does have some kind of psychological or personality disorder that makes her treat people like crap.

 

- she has some kind of hormonal disorder that makes her very irritable and aggressive (ie PMS, Premenstrual Dysmorphic Disorder etc etc)

 

- some kind of bad behavior on your part that you haven't disclosed, ie drug/alcohol abuse, adultery, chronic unemployment, utterly lazy around the house, you are abusive etc etc.

 

- complete loss of attraction and connection with you.

 

- Attraction/connection or affair with another man.

 

Regardless of the root cause, no one has the right to treat someone badly and to torment them with disrespect, disparagement, insults, hypercriticism etc etc

 

You are completely in your right to draw a line in the sand and demand that she either address her problems with you upfront and in an appropriate manner, or divorce and move on.

 

Either way if you want this treatment of you to stop, you are going to have to stop accepting it and stop making concessions to her.

 

She has the right to openly address what it is that you are doing or not doing that has her so resentful.

 

She also has the right to divorce you and get away from you.

 

But she does not have the right to mistreat you.

[oldshirt]

 

Is she having an affair?.

I have to say in our case I'm pretty certain this isn't hapning. She dedicates herself 150% to being a mother, and her own mother is heavily involved in childcare too and would sniff it out and give her a proper roasting if she was playing away from home.

 

Plus quite simply her character is utterly guileless and without pretence - I don't think she would be able to have an affair covertly. If she was seeing another man, she would have had no problem just telling me that's how it is.

 

She does guard her phone, although I have had cause to look at it now and then and not found anything from other guys. What she is afraid of me seeing is her text conversations with her mum, her friends, my mum, about how horrible I am to her and how lazy, controlling etc etc. And she is always suspicious of my own phone because she thinks I'm doing the same about her (which I assure you I'm not).

 

.

 

Don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of there being another man (OM).

 

All of the things you have mentioned here actually are signs of adultery and are often the first and only things that a BS notice.

 

Txts and phone calls can be deleted. People can also obtain a separate phone on the down low.

 

Until you have gone through the actual phone and txt logs from the phone company and until you have completely gone through every square inch of the house and car etc in search of another phone or electronic device and until you have hacked into her computers and emails and social media accounts and put keylogger software into her computer to record all her passwords and communications and until you have followed her daily activities and put voice activated recorders and GPS trackers in her car etc etc, you simply do not know what she is doing when you aren't watching.

 

Real life affairs do not often involve romantic candlelight dinners and long walks on the beach and a large amount of time spent together and countless unaccounted for hours out of the day.

 

Actual trysts literally take place in minutes.

 

Single people date and spend time together and do things together for long lengths of time as they become sexually active. Married people meet in a park for a quicky on their way to the grocery store or meet in motel room over their lunch hour and drop their clothes as they are walking in the door.

 

And no, she would not just come out and tell you if she was getting her yum-yums from someone else, because 90+ % want to have BOTH the comfort and security of a spouse and marriage and the fun and excitement of the affair TOGETHER. It's rarely an either-or thing. They want both and if she were to tell you, you'd likely ask her to stop. She wouldn't want to do that.

 

And don't think for one second that your MIL would really run interference for you if she knew.

 

Now I am not saying that any of this is a smoking gun or hard evidence of an affair. I am saying that things you describe often ARE the initial signs and symptoms of an affair and that an affair cannot be dismissed without actually investigating it as a real possibility.

 

You are being irresponsible unless you consider it as a real possibility.

 

Hypercriticism, Hiding phones and locking computers etc and being overly and unnecessarily suspicious of the BS cheating are only well documented and essentially universal signs and symptoms of adultery.

 

Yes they may be signs and symptoms of other things as well, but infidelity is one of the things that must be thoroughly considered and looked into.

Edited January 2, 2017 by oldshirt

[oldshirt]

 

And I feel partly responsible for living a lie for 10 years, playing the part of a man who is happy with the way things are.

 

Yes you do bear some responsibility for accepting and rugsweeping this behavior. You may feel that it was a "sacrifice" that you endured to keep your family together, but in reality it is bad role-modeling for your children.

 

You are teaching your daughters that they get what they want by bullying, brow-beating and hen-pecking and disrespecting their husbands.

 

And you are teaching your sons that marriage means swallowing their pride and dignity and allowing women to mistreat and disrespect them.

 

If you want to teach both your sons and your daughters appropriate behavior and love and respect for their spouses, you need to stop accepting this kind of maltreatment of yourself.

[oldshirt]

 

I'm scared to death of divorce because of seperation from my kids, primarily - also the feeling of letting the whole family down who have thrown support at us for the last 10 years but sadly have never quite been able to offer anything helpful in the situation I described.

 

A therapist would have a field day with this paragraph above.

 

Noone questions that separating the home and having the kid's time divided between two households is sucky for everyone.

 

But is there any reason to believe that you and your wife would not be able to each provide the children love, safety, support and nurturing from two separate houses?

 

You state that she is a good mother with a good familial support system. Is there any reason to believe that she would not continue to be a good mother and have a good support system for the children if she was not living with you?

 

And thusly, is there any reason to believe that you would not be able to be a good loving, supportive and nurturing father if you were on your own without your wife tormenting you in your own home?

 

Further more, the fact that you state you will let 3rd parties down if you were to protect yourself is line # 4 right out of the Battered Spouse's Handbook. That is a classic line of the battered and abused spouse.

 

Her character flaws and personality disorders are simply not your responsibility. You can not control her character, behaviors or personality for either good nor bad. You did not cause it nor can you cure it. All you can do is protect your own well being (by getting away from her)

 

I guarantee you, people will not be "let down" if you walk away from your abuse. 8 out of 10 people will pat you on the back and tell you they are proud of you for protecting yourself and will wonder why it took you so long.

 

The other 2 (her parents) will be distressed that now they will receive more of the brunt of her poison and will have to bail her out of the messes she gets herself into more than they are now with you there. They will be upset because they will likely see you as a stabilizing force in her chaotic life and now they will be back in the hotseat again.

 

They'll be sad and upset for her, but if they are reasonable people, they will be understanding of you.

[Cumberdale]

Hi.

 

I'm wondering of there's some more to the story? I'm not defending your wife's behaviour in any way. I'm wondering whether there have been some triggering factors that started all this?

 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm currently going through a divorce and feelings of contempt and resentment have been rife from my end. Why? Because he treated me absolutely appalling and despite the evidence could never admit to doing anything wrong. I resented him enormously. It came to the point where I would feel hatred towards him if he so much as entered a room. I'd be tormented by memories of things he did/said. In other words he no longer had to do anything for me to feel distressed by him.

 

Have you looked at yourself and asked yourself honestly if there's anything you've done that distressed your wife? If so, have you honestly owned it and apologised for your role in this distress? Look hard. People don't generally resent people for no reason.

 

The only other possible reason could be that she just wants out. For reasons only she will know.

 

The thing is, she doesn't want out. But sadly I think she knows that I'm more or less at that point. How could it not become obvious.

 

Your point is a worthwhile one to bring up and frankly I can probably write just as much about my own issues. In fact I probably will.

 

I'm no perfect man, not by a long shot. I have my own issues like being a bit socially awkward (I was a country boy who grew up with only one or two close friends at a time) and silly little anxieties like a mild phobia of calling people on the telephone (not answering, just calling). Crazy I know.

 

I'm not great with money, although I run my own business and, although am very good at the actual 'doing of the work', I'm not exactly businessman of the year. I do work very hard to provide the best for my family, which is why it's so galling to be not just unappreciated but actively scorned for spending a lot of time out working. She has always been someone who covets what others have got and is resentful that she doesn't have it. She always compares our life unfavourably with parents of other kids at school; large homes with play-rooms stuffed with toys, exotic holidays and frequent family days out. At the same time rarely noticing the many people who don't have as much as we do. We have nice life, we own our 3 bed semi-detached house in a quiet village (you guessed I'm English probably), we have a modest but comfortable life; which I am content with but I don't think she is.

 

Also I admit I have an underlying fear of losing control of my life. If I'm perfectly honest I have on numerous occasions just 'gone along' with things so as not to be the person holding us back. I specifically mean things like moving house. We've bought and sold 5 times in 10 years of marriage and each time I've rebuilt the new place up to our specs. It's allowed us to make a modest profit each time and move to a nicer place, but it is unbelievably stressful.

 

Each time I've voiced worries about it beforehand because of the strain it puts on the whole family, and each time somehow our house is on the market a week later. We always have a lot of logistical help from her parents and so while I'm at work they are on the phone to each other arranging appointments with buyers and agents etc. I am updated often, however I have never had the will to say "Hold on, actually this isn't what I want". I felt that I would be selfish to hold her back from her dreams just because I was a boring homebody who didn't like change. But at the same time I felt as though I was just a passenger in the marriage, along for the ride, which is what I mean by the control thing before. Not to control anyone else, but have control over my own life.

 

The thing is, over the last year or two I've started to say "No" quite definitely. As I see impending disaster in our marriage. "We are not moving house again" etc. Quite honestly that would be the final straw at this stage I'm sure of it.

 

What else.... There are other minor things that don't do me any favours; like refusing to lie to the children about my being an atheist (they are at a catholic school), and not being a massive stickler for table etiquette. That last one I'll clarify; It is much, much more important to me that everyone at my table is comfortable, happy and feels welcome, rather than holds their knife and fork correctly and keeps their elbows of the table at all times. My wife holds the opposite view. This is trivial but is a macrocosm for our entire relationship in some ways.

 

Finally, I've said mean things to her, of course. We get into arguments where after being called selfish and pathetic and being sneered at for days on end, I'll drop a bomb like "you're a real bitch" or something. I'm not proud of this but I'm only human. When you reach the end of your rope you sometimes lash out. In the war with my wife, it is like one side (her) using death with a thousand cuts and the other side (me) responding with the occasional nuke. But of course in this war, I tend to forget most of what's said to me and just move along, while she remembers every last word, where and when it was said, and even invents new meanings for the innocuous things I say too.

 

That was longer than I intended, why do I write these diatribes... but I am totally fine with putting my own failings out there and hitting them head-on if I can change anything.

[Cumberdale]

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If not, I would suggest you read about NPD Warning Signs. If the BPD or NPD description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Jersey, Elaine and other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Thank you for this link, I have read with interest. Maybe 3/4 of the points on the list I recognised straight away, a few not so much. I feel actually a little uncomfortable reading it, like I'm doing something devious and cruel.

[Downtown]

I tend to forget most of what's said to me and just move along, while she remembers every last word, where and when it was said, and even invents new meanings for the innocuous things I say too.

Cumber, as I noted above, she will seek frequent "validation" of her false self image of being "The Victim" if she is a BPDer. This is done because the BPDer has such a fragile and unstable self image that she will keep a death grip on her self identity of being a victim. Toward that end, a BPDer will keep a mental list of every mistake or infraction you've done (real or imagined).

 

Moreover, she will not hesitate to pull out the entire list when arguing over very minor disagreements -- i.e., if you fail to recognize her role as victim, she will just keep going down the list until you do. My BPDer exW, for example, would not even blush when citing some infraction I supposedly had done 10 years earlier as "proof" that what she was now claiming was true. Indeed, I've seen her go back 15 years on the list, citing arguments that neither of us could really remember in any accurate detail.

 

I feel actually a little uncomfortable reading it, like I'm doing something devious and cruel.

That's just a feeling. Don't believe it. What you're doing, when reading about BPD traits, is looking for an educated term that properly labels your W's pattern of behaviors. Once you find the educated term that applies, you will have have the key that -- through Google -- unlocks a world of online information and also puts you into contact with hundreds of folks dealing with the very same issue. As you know, Google isn't very helpful when you search using street language like "bitch."

[lilypad10]

Thank You Lilypad,

 

However I put it, she perceives criticism as a personal attack. She is especially defensive of her matriarchal role - she takes motherhood VERY seriously. There isn't really any discussion. If I do what you suggest and steer the conversation to make her think it through herself and 'come to the right conclusion', her spider-senses go off and she immediately thinks I'm manipulating her, or she throws her arms up saying "you always have to be right/go against what I say".

 

This relates to other issue I eluded to; she seems to think I'm conspiring against her. So even the slightest and most tentative suggestion that she might change the way she does things is taken as me undermining her and sowing doubt, even trying to make her look bad in front of the children.

 

This is really one of the main things that is wearing me down. Being regarded as a saboteur or a manipulator is hurtful. Call me a delicate snowflake, but when I make a suggestion, even if it's a stupid one, I want my partner to think "well that's a stupid suggestion, BUT, his heart is in the right place". She can call me pathetic or selfish or mean, but the implication I'm actually 'out to get her' is like a kick in the guts because it undermines the small amount of hope I have for our future. I'm just fed up with it now.

 

I'm ranting again lol

It is definitely sounding more and more that she is unable to deal with any thoughts/ideas that conflict with her ideas of the self and especially as a mother. Her resistance to even benign comments is not healthy for any relationship, let alone one as difficult as marriage. I think there is some validity in the mention of borderline personality disorder. If it makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to think about it as a "pathology" per se, but reading about the etiology of it, the mechanisms that are used to protect the ego, the "whys" will be enlightening, I think.

 

Either way, it may be time for you to get serious about telling her it's now or never. Either she starts working on this (which is going to take a VERY long time) or you're out. But you need to be certain that you have it in you to leave. I don't think it's fair for you to have to suffer.