Is porn or looking at photos of nude people cheating?

[kgcolonel]

Each couple should define what is acceptable and what is not....some couples watch together and others don't but also don't consider it cheating. If watching porn is considered cheating would you also agree that the romance novels are as well? One targets the visual and the other emotional components....

 

I do not think there is a hard and fast (no pun intended) rule but should be openly discussed for each couple.

 

I have heard many psychologists state that masterbation is normal and healthy....

[Mr. Lucky]

If watching porn is considered cheating would you also agree that the romance novels are as well? One targets the visual and the other emotional components....

 

I think the overtly and explicitly sexual nature of porn puts it in a different category from romance novels and the SI swimsuit edition. Some might argue Wuthering Heights is a romance novel targeting an emotional component, it's gray area.

 

"Strap-on Cheerleaders" is pretty black and white...

 

Mr. Lucky

[merrmeade]

Don't give me too credit.....

 

So, I'm still curious what you opinion was about porn prior to Dday and if you had an understanding prior to Dday and if that opinion or understanding has changed since. I think once we know that, we can speak more intelligently about what's really appropriate for you as a couple going forward.

ok no credit.

 

Prior to Dday I was probably the most naive ex-radical/hippie around. I'd never seen porn, wasn't really sure what it consisted of. Didn't come up until Internet so no opinion until I taught in a school for girls and the feminist agenda informed all my opinions. Porn would've been lumped in with all activities that objectify and stereotype women but still wasn't sure what it was.

 

When my younger was a HS senior I found a porn videocassette he'd brought home from school. When I asked him about it he threw it away rather than talk to me. His idea.

 

That started me thinking. So I asked my husband If he'd ever watched porn. He said no, he had not. He was lying I believe now. He'd blame my son for putting porn on his computer. I believe that he's ashamed of it.

Edited January 1, 2017 by merrmeade

[Cymbeline]

" the feminist agenda informed all my opinions. Porn would've been lumped in with all activities that objectify and stereotype women "

 

I agree absolutely with this. While feminists can and do use porn, academic and sociological arguments aeem to be ways of managing its ubiquity.

 

I also think the huge variety of virtual women and lack of effort needed can impact on feelings towards about a long term spouse in some people.

 

I also think in some cases it can be a gateway to experimentation outside the marriage.

 

I think it can probably lead to a kind of fetish about what sex is/should be.

 

I am fascinated and horrified by the scientist who said last week (and it was widely reported) that the advent of sex robots mean sex will, in future, be for special occasions. I have no idea what sex robots will mean for us but I can't imagine it will be mostly positive.

 

So when I said earlier, it is normal and harmless if it doesn't diminish the primary relationship, I think the problem to me that it is ubiquitous and simply has to be 'managed' in a relationship. To forbid it when it is so freely available is an issue in itself. Things were so very different when porn meant buying a magazine from the top shelf in the newsagent.

[BetrayedH]

ok no credit.

 

Prior to Dday I was probably the most naive ex-radical/hippie around. I'd never seen porn, wasn't really sure what it consisted of. Didn't come up until Internet so no opinion until I taught in a school for girls and the feminist agenda informed all my opinions. Porn would've been lumped in with all activities that objectify and stereotype women but still wasn't sure what it was.

 

When my younger was a HS senior I found a porn videocassette he'd brought home from school. When I asked him about it he threw it away rather than talk to me. His idea.

 

That started me thinking. So I asked my husband If he'd ever watched porn. He said no, he had not. He was lying I believe now. He'd blame my son for putting porn on his computer. I believe that he's ashamed of it.

 

Sorry merrmeade. I feared my reply was indelicate and it looks like I was right.

 

I think you are very, very hurt and you've never received the empathy you deserve from your husband. This is but another example.

 

I'm sorry.

[merrmeade]

Sorry merrmeade. I feared my reply was indelicate and it looks like I was right.

 

I think you are very, very hurt and you've never received the empathy you deserve from your husband. This is but another example.

 

I'm sorry.

maybe but what i fear is that he's just gone back to being the basic self-entitled and UN-self-aware ******* he was before who picks and chooses for whom he practices empathy according to what he gets back.which I isnot real empathy but something sinister and self serving.

[spanz1]

NO! it is not cheating.

 

The line to cheating start to be crossed if they are pictures of a woman he nows that she sent to him But some random porn star...no way.

 

If the two of you are highy religious, that is another matter, but still not "cheating"

[BetrayedH]

maybe but what i fear is that he's just gone back to being the basic self-entitled and UN-self-aware ******* he was before who picks and chooses for whom he practices empathy according to what he gets back.which I isnot real empathy but something sinister and self serving.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I've ever read anything from you that lead me to believe he has empathy. It's all been about him. You never have gotten what you needed from him. He has always avoided even discussing his disastrous behavior. When did he become self-aware? When did he stop being a self-entitled *******?

 

It's no surprise that you're afraid. And I'm still angry for you.

 

I'm sorry if none of that helps.

[Mr Blunt]

errmeade

Everyone knows that most men are sexually attracted to naked women just like most women are attracted to the fake romance novels and TV/movies. These issues can be addressed by discipline and loyalty.

 

In your situation your husband looking at porn is dangerous to the marriage. Your husband is a betrayer and refuses to face his consequences and do what needs to be done to improve the marriage…He has proven that he desires sex with other women and is a selfish man and does not give you real empathy….Unless he shows some real ACTIONS to prove his discipline and loyalty, he is a very high risk to continue to hurt you IMO

 

 

My advice to you is for you to look at all your options and decide if you are better offwith him or without him.

[LargoLagg]

I don't know if it is cheating or not, but I do know that he likes to at least fantasize about banging other women. Given that he's cheated already, it doesn't sound as if he's as repentant as you want him to be.

[sandylee1]

I don't consider it cheating and I don't have an issue if my husband chooses to watch porn either.

[sandylee1]

Yes it is cheating. Forsaking all others in your vows doesn't have an asterisk saying.... Well you can look at other naked women.

 

I don't think that's what forsaking all others means

 

I read some pretty erotic stories on Kindle sometimes and some may compare them to porn ... I don't think my husband should have any right to tell me whether I can read it or not.

 

My reading or if I choose to watch porn, has no bearing on my marriage. It would never affect my relationship with my husband, except it can get me more amorous, which he'd never complain about even on his deathbed.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't have an issue with porn. I'm not threatened by my husband looking at pictures of women online and I think it can be a fun, healthy activity for a couple.

 

Here is my thing - my husband had a fixation at one point. He compared me to the porn stars and their ability with oral sex. He berated me to the point where I had an affair. I'm obviously summarizing a lot of information but porn can give men an unrealistic idea of what women like in bed.

 

After my affair came out (and his), he spoke to someone about this and it has improved.

 

Bottom line, I am fine with it as long as it is not impacting a couples sex life.

[Lady2163]

I don't have an issue with porn. I'm not threatened by my husband looking at pictures of women online and I think it can be a fun, healthy activity for a couple.

 

Here is my thing - my husband had a fixation at one point. He compared me to the porn stars and their ability with oral sex. He berated me to the point where I had an affair. I'm obviously summarizing a lot of information but porn can give men an unrealistic idea of what women like in bed.

 

After my affair came out (and his), he spoke to someone about this and it has improved.

 

Bottom line, I am fine with it as long as it is not impacting a couples sex life.

 

I'm female and I watch porn while masturbating and sometimes for instruction.

 

Really, instruction. I like to think I'm pretty talented in the sack, but if there is something else I can bring to the table, then yes, I will google "how to give the best handjob" and click the video tab.

 

But as Blue said, porn can give an unrealistic idea of how things should be. MOST of the porn viewers are men, so the videos are meant to appeal to them. Which means the woman just loves to suck for hours and has a screaming orgasm the second stroke in.

 

Is it cheating? This has already been said, but it depends on how the spouse/OP feels about it.

 

Masturbation is kind of a private thing for me. I hid my toys and Penthouse Letters from my husband when I was married. I knew he would want to watch, which would ruin it for me and I knew our sex life would get even worse as he would justify that he didn't need to give me an orgasm when BOB could do it.

 

Not all men watch porn and not all men "look". Some men may look at other women, but they are smart enough - and respectful enough to not get caught doing it.

 

If your husband knows he has to hide it from you, is it for the sake of privacy or because he knows you would consider it cheating?

 

Are you in counseling? This might be something to bring up with the counselor.

[Deeplyhurt30]

I dont necessarily view watching porn as full blown cheating, as long as it is not hidden--it should be discussed between both people.

 

My husband has always been very open with me about a fantasy of his involving me and another woman. (lets get real, i think there is no man that hasnt at some point thought this way.)

 

However, him having an affair has, in my opinion, no longer gave him any right to talk this way or should even think this way.

 

How would others feel if their spouse had an affair, them telling their spouse that they were thinking of them and another woman? I am sure he wouldnt like that If I told him that.

[dichotomy]

- Is masturbating alone cheating ?

 

- What about sexual thoughts "in your head" during masturbating - or even not masturbating - Is that cheating?

 

- What about if you remember (fondly) having sex with an ex or their naked body - is that cheating?

 

- Is a woman using a vibrator or other kind of toy to masturbate - cheating ?

 

- If the above actions are hidden does that make it cheating or wrong ?

 

 

 

Sorry this could be another thread I guess - I just see it related to this question.

Edited January 2, 2017 by dichotomy

[Scarlett94]

I don't think that's what forsaking all others means

 

I read some pretty erotic stories on Kindle sometimes and some may compare them to porn ... I don't think my husband should have any right to tell me whether I can read it or not.

 

My reading or if I choose to watch porn, has no bearing on my marriage. It would never affect my relationship with my husband, except it can get me more amorous, which he'd never complain about even on his deathbed.

 

I do think that's what forsaking all others means. In my opinion you are either exclusive to each other or you are not.

I'm a BS so I do view it as cheating but I always have and he was aware of that before we married.

If he did it now after being unfaithful? I would divorce him.

He's not very computer savvy, is never on one and requested that I set up parameters on his phone that I am comfortable with.

So I guess it's whatever works for your marriage.

This works for ours

[harrybrown]

It sounds like your H has not become transparent and there are some tough issues that need work in your marriage.

 

if he did not write you a timeline of the A, become transparent and go to counseling, then your marriage needs some work and most of it by your H.

 

if he can find and pay for a counselor, then great, but otherwise there is affair recovery.com that he could pay for and help to make your marriage better.

 

I do wish you better times, but he is not showing enough remorse for R.

 

I think that is part of the issue with your H not trying to earn some trust back and make you feel safer in the marriage.

 

I hope he wakes up in time.

[sandylee1]

I do think that's what forsaking all others means. In my opinion you are either exclusive to each other or you are not.

I'm a BS so I do view it as cheating but I always have and he was aware of that before we married.

If he did it now after being unfaithful? I would divorce him.

He's not very computer savvy, is never on one and requested that I set up parameters on his phone that I am comfortable with.

So I guess it's whatever works for your marriage.

This works for ours

 

I just don't view porn as real to be honest, butI know it can have a negative impact on relationships. It seems to be men who get addicted and then have problems performing sexually.

 

I can see how awful that would be.

 

Cheating usually involves two people who know what's going on ... not a porn star who doesn't know you from Adam though.

[Mrs. John Adams]

some men like looking at women in lingerie...no sex....no nudity....some men like looking at pinup girls....in bikinis standing in front of cars or motorcycles. Do they masturbate while they are looking at these images? I doubt it...most car repair shops have these kinds of calender's hanging up for everyone to see.

 

How about women who buy calender's of sexy policeman or fireman? Are they masturbating while looking at the hunks?

 

My definition of porn may be different than my husbands...or than my neighbors.

 

The problem i see is this one....if you have EVER expressed to your husband...that looking at other women and masturbating makes you feel uncomfortable ...and he continues to do it...then he is disrespecting your wishes. I wont call it "cheating"...but i would call it disrespectful.

 

If you have never expressed to him how you feel about it...then you need to tell him. If he becomes defensive or argumentative about it...it may indicate to you his attitude toward it and toward your feelings.

 

Porn and masturbation may be a very sensitive subject to you NOW because of the infidelity....which is even more reason for you to tell him how you feel. If you approach him with accusation...rather than just discussing how you both feel about it...he may very well become defensive and feel like once again he has failed...and start making excuses.

 

I am not a man...so I don't understand how a man processes looking at women in varying states of dress or undress... I do know that if I tell my husband that it bothers me....and he continues to do it....we might have an issue. Once again it all boils down to appropriate boundaries and transparency to each other. But if I have never told him that it bothers me...I have to cut him some slack...until he has been made well aware of how i feel. Then if he crosses my line....we have a big problem.

[understand50]

merrmeade,

 

As always your questions have many layers. For the first layer, in my opinion, I do not think the using and viewing porn is cheating, but the consumption of porn, by some, can cause problems and issues in a marriage. In that case, as it is impacting the relationship, then it is a real problem, that must be addressed. Porn can be benign, or damaging, depends on the persons in the marriage.

 

I have been reading your posts, and we have PMed, from time to time. I know that your biggest issue with your husband, is the lying, and lack of true remorse. In a word, he just does not get it. In the past we have discussed, if this is all there is, or can be had? Can a BS still remain married to someone who just does not get it? So far, as you are still with him, and have decided to remain married, your personnel answer, is yes. (forgive me if I am wrong). So in this layer, we must look at what your husband's behavor means for your ongoing reconciliation. We have seen him, via your writing, rise on several occasions, and fall flat on his face in others. So a question for you? Does him using porn hurt or help? If it is a hurt to you, then you need to let him know and discuss why and see if he can modify his behaovor. I cannot see it being a help, but it could be a neutral. In that case, is the real issue his hiding his use of it from you? Your response would be different, the if it is a hurt to you. It can also be both. In this case his porn use is impacting the marriage, and it must be dealt with.

 

Another layer, is that by using Porn, in many cases it can just feels like cheating. One partner is seeking sexual gratification, apart form their spouse. Many will not agree with this, but mix in infidelity, and you have many issues that need to be addressed, and discussed. Some may see porn as a gateway into the behaviors that led to the original cheating. That is is starting all up again. A WS, that is truly remorseful, would not indulge, as it shows a lack of understanding and remorse. It is not a good way to move along the process of reconciliation. Here is another question? Do you feel that your husband using porn shows he is still vary much capable of cheating?

 

In the end, the only question is "Does this hurt or help our ongoing reconciliation?" As that is both your goal, anything that does not help should stopped. Hope this helps,

 

As always, I wish you luck......

[merrmeade]

As per your usual, understand 50, incredible. You do get me and all the layers. And as per your usual, there's much for me to mull over for some time to come. Thank you.

 

I was composing an explanation of the general reckoning I returned to this weekend, while you must have been working on your post. Some of it addresses some of your points. I'm posting it separately in response to others' comments on empathy.

[merrmeade]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I've ever read anything from you that lead me to believe he has empathy. It's all been about him. You never have gotten what you needed from him. He has always avoided even discussing his disastrous behavior. When did he become self-aware? When did he stop being a self-entitled *******?

 

It's no surprise that you're afraid. And I'm still angry for you.

 

I'm sorry if none of that helps.

Your outrage for me helps. It's the father, brother, friend I needed. It reminds me I'm more than this.

 

So, no, H has not shown me the empathy I needed. Of course, he hasn’t. He is incapable because he is and always will be a narcissist. He is very good at acting the part of good, decent and self-sacrificing (or whatever he thinks is another’s ideal) as a way of garnering attention and admiration, but his capacity for true empathy is limited to nil. I’d just temporarily forgotten this small fact.

 

Therefore, when I asked him – before he took his Cialis for our pre-arranged New Year’s Eve tryst – if we could first discuss the events of the night before, he took it as a major blow to the ego, a rejection. In fact, nothing is more tied up with his fragile ego than sex. I knew this and should’ve had “the talk” earlier and kept the two issues separated. But I didn’t. I forgot.

 

The result was that my issue disappeared and the weekend became about his feelings of rejection (a word incidentally he would never use). I could not explain that, in fact, I'd decided I was okay with the nudie pics though not the stealth and deceit which I'd hoped we could discuss. Nope. Passive-aggressive all the way.

 

Nevermind that I fractured my pelvis Nov 1st and still cannot walk more than a block without pain, yet asked the OT and PA if and how we could have sex safely—which we have. Nope, all he knew was that his very manhood was on the line at that moment.

 

Next morning was what I now think of as the trash attack. He’d been in the pouty passive-aggressive mode since the night before, his extremely fragile sexual ego wounded. He essentially acted as if the injury was his alone and challenged my lack of initiation (of sex) as the problem, implying that's why he 'had' to look at porn, adding that perhaps he should just go get a prostitute. He even blamed my son for putting porn on his computer and introducing him to it. His child. I know. Shockingly immature. Incredible. Disturbing. And generally totally ficked up.

 

I was crushed. Speechless. I asked if he remembered what I'd needed to talk about and whether he’d thought at all about what I might have been feeling the past 24 hours.

Two or three times I asked:

- "What am I feeling or what do you think I'm feeling?"

He hesitated then stammered:

- "Well, umm, all sorts of things, I'm sure.” (I did not edit one word.)

He was truly flummoxed and could not answer, adding an excuse:

- "I can’t. I'm too damaged."

 

Hopelessly discouraged, I left for about ten hours, went shopping and talked to a psychologist relative, which helped the most. You see, my brother was recently diagnosed with NPD. Crazy but true. His wife has left him. His daughter is a practicing psychologist. She, my daughter, and I are on the same wave-length and restore each other from time to time. This was one such time and enabled me to go home at peace with the impenetrability of H’s narcissism and resigned to my only two options:

1. Leave or

2. Stay but retrieve my guarded approach toward this marriage as a business arrangement with benefits and find happiness in other things.

 

My daughter is here, so it’s all on hold but I don’t have any expectations of a heart-to-heart even after she leaves tomorrow that will change anything.

 

I simply forget from time to time as he appears to improve in other ways:

He’s only capable of so much and no more.

 

Exactly as understand 50 has described.

Edited January 3, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[merrmeade]

- Is masturbating alone cheating ?

 

- What about sexual thoughts "in your head" during masturbating - or even not masturbating - Is that cheating?

 

- What about if you *remember (fondly) having sex with an ex or their naked body - is that cheating?

 

- Is a woman using a vibrator or other kind of toy to masturbate *- cheating ?

 

- If the above actions are hidden does that make it cheating or wrong ?

 

Sorry this could be another

No, not another thread. These are the logical follow-up questions that I was hoping would be discussed - or at least the question of where one draws the line.

[merrmeade]

[sorry for the confusing posts - copy/paste error - I requested an edit but maybe people can sort out ... ] Oh nevermind. Fixed. THANK YOU!