The price we pay

[katielee]

I am an eternal optimist and I would venture to say that if both of us were "realist" we would not be together today.

 

 

Well, this doesn't bode well for me. I wouldn't even call myself a realist but a cynicist!

[heartwhole]

As a BS (well, really just as a human being who wants to live a good, happy life) it's important for me to remain hopeful and positive. If you remain mired in bitterness and unforgiveness as the years pass, then you're not doing your part IMO. A lot of it is definitely optimism and long-term thinking because when your WS is exhibiting a lot of selfishness and fledgling remorse it's hard to move forward, but either you think a future of happiness is possible for the two of you, or you don't. So I can say, yes, WH still has areas for growth (and so do I), and I can be wary of things not working out while I also appreciate how much he has grown and tried at this point as well.

 

This weekend is the 2 year anniversary of the PA, and I could sit around wondering exactly what I was doing (taking care of kids with the stomach flu, of course . . . thanks universe!) while he was out on the town with OW. And I could sulk and expect him to grovel or whatnot, but right now I just feel at peace. We're doing so well, where I want to be. I can recall what he was doing two years ago and hate it, I always will, but I can always be thankful that it didn't destroy us, that we got a second chance and are making good on it.

 

Don't stay stuck. Today may be all we have -- do your part to walk forward in grace and good faith and love. See if your WS wants to come along on that journey.

[katielee]

do your part to walk forward in grace and good faith and love. See if your WS wants to come along on that journey.

 

I do this MOST of the time. But occasionally things get tough.

[merrmeade]

I can certainly understand why you feel that way

 

But in our case and in my own defense... I said what I said because I am an optimist... and often times I say things to encourage and promote positive attitudes rather than admitting defeat or negative feelings.

 

I was insensitive to how much pain I had really caused him... I had a lot to learn at that point ... I talk too much... and I said the wrong thing. I have three pages of things I said that fall into the same catagory... and John has imbedded in his memory... and no matter how far we come...those things remain as a thorn in his side ...and he occasionally reminds me and when I am in a particularly self berating mood... I read them and cry wishing I could take them back. I did a lot of things wrong...

 

I am an eternal optimist and I would venture to say that if both of us were "realist" we would not be together today.

 

I am not the ow... I am the wife and while I may be a very vile person .. I was sincere in my remark because I was determined to make the things I destroyed right. I don't pretend to try to understand what your sister in law meant by her remark...

It made me sad to read this - to realize that even Mrs. JA doesn't fully get it yet. Nobody's condemning you. I never thought of you as vile nor do I now. But I think you're offended somehow which is also unexpected and even disappointing. It feels like when I try to talk to my husband and he gets upset and resentful because even talking about my pain implies an accusation.

 

I'm sure my SIL meant it the same way as you did - cheery and hopeful for the future, which makes it all the more of a stab to the heart because it's so clueless. You wouldn't have said to heartwhole when her father committed suicide that she might "laugh over this" later. You wouldn't say such a thing to her now.

 

But the real reason I knew at that moment that there would be no reconciliation with my SIL was that R with my husband was all I could do. I did not have the personal resources to work on renewing my relationship with her also. Even if it meant the extended family unity was lost - which it did mean.

 

So the takeaway and response to this thread? Was the price worth it? By no means. THere's all kinds of knowledge in this world and wisdom about the human condition that I will never have. If I could, I would happily return the knowledge and wisdom I have gained from this experience to that pile of unknowns.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It made me sad to read this - to realize that even Mrs. JA doesn't fully get it yet. Nobody's condemning you. I never thought of you as vile nor do I now. But I think you're offended somehow which is also unexpected and even disappointing. It feels like when I try to talk to my husband and he gets upset and resentful because even talking about my pain implies an accusation.

 

I'm sure my SIL meant it the same way as you did - cheery and hopeful for the future, which makes it all the more of a stab to the heart because it's so clueless. You wouldn't have said to heartwhole when her father committed suicide that she might "laugh over this" later. You wouldn't say such a thing to her now.

 

But the real reason I knew at that moment that there would be no reconciliation with my SIL was that R with my husband was all I could do. I did not have the personal resources to work on renewing my relationship with her also. Even if it meant the extended family unity was lost - which it did mean.

 

So the takeaway and response to this thread? Was the price worth it? By no means. THere's all kinds of knowledge in this world and wisdom about the human condition that I will never have. If I could, I would happily return the knowledge and wisdom I have gained from this experience to that pile of unknowns.

 

Reconciliation in my opinion.....is a process....a journey...that we are on the rest of our lives. I have been shot to smithereens for saying this by several here who believe that reconciliation has an end and you can officially declare yourself reconciled. SO for me to say that i fully "get it" would be inaccurate. I "get it" much better today than I did yesterday.....will I ever truly understand? I don't know but I keep working on it. I certainly did not "get it" When I made the statement to John...someday we may laugh about this. This is exactly why I made the post to clarify why I said it and what I was thinking at the time.

 

Funny...your example of Heartwhole's father...was very similar to the discussion John and I had this morning before i posted my comment. He used a funeral as an example as well....you would not walk into a funeral and tell the family you will laugh about this later. Great minds think a like perhaps?

 

People handle grief differently and there is no right way or wrong way. Many try to make the moment lighter. Johns comment was made in answer to a post made by WMACbride...It's been a long time for us, and as far fetched as it might sound, there are times we actually find some humor in it. I know that sounds really weird, but this lets us push the A even further into the background.

 

Her statement triggered for him what i had said. He said he still finds no humor in it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well, this doesn't bode well for me. I wouldn't even call myself a realist but a cynicist!

 

My statement was strictly about john and I.....john is a realist I am an optimist....had I been a realist as he is...I doubt we would have made it.

 

But because john was a realist....because he is analytical...because he evaluated everything....his commitment to our relationship held us together. My optimism attracted him to me in the first place....and I am sure remained a steadfast attraction. Would this apply to anyone else? I don't know.

[road]

I paid a price, with the hurt and pain, even when I thought I was over it. For her, she has paid by knowing she cheated. She could and can never state that she has not. This does weigh on her.

 

The fact of her cheating all those years ago, also has added a layer to any other crisis we have had. It's having two strikes against the marriage, and hoping the next will not be a third. We have been together for a long time, and I do not think we will break apart, but we have also built up much resentment on both sides. We have also built much happiness and live, but I will always know she cheated, as will she. In the end the price is not having a story book marriage, not having the perfect love story. Maybe, that just makes us normal, as every marriage, is not perfect.

 

My two cents.....

 

Over 30 years of not getting the truth has held us back more then that it happened. Lack of truth is what keeps me on LS.

[merrmeade]

Reconciliation in my opinion.....is a process....a journey...that we are on the rest of our lives. I have been shot to smithereens for saying this by several here who believe that reconciliation has an end and you can officially declare yourself reconciled. SO for me to say that i fully "get it" would be inaccurate. I "get it" much better today than I did yesterday.....will I ever truly understand? I don't know but I keep working on it. I certainly did not "get it" When I made the statement to John...someday we may laugh about this. This is exactly why I made the post to clarify why I said it and what I was thinking at the time.

 

Funny...your example of Heartwhole's father...was very similar to the discussion John and I had this morning before i posted my comment. He used a funeral as an example as well....you would not walk into a funeral and tell the family you will laugh about this later. Great minds think a like perhaps?

 

People handle grief differently and there is no right way or wrong way. Many try to make the moment lighter. Johns comment was made in answer to a post made by WMACbride... It's been a long time for us, and as far fetched as it might sound, there are times we actually find some humor in it. I know that sounds really weird, but this lets us push the A even further into the background.

 

Her statement triggered for him what i had said. He said he still finds no humor in it.

Okayyyyy. All clear now. But don't see why there was any defensiveness in the first place. There was no personal attack. Just reflection on a similar comment.

 

But wait a minute: Do you have to have a great R for your comments to be valid? No contest but I'm not sure that is a measure of anything other than itself. It doesn't change the truth of what things mean. And it's okay that what you said sucked. Being an optimist doesn't change that.

 

I don't need to be right either and am weary of this. It all makes me even sadder - and tired. WS criticism and competition is a major trigger for me. I don't understand it and my resilience ebbs. Time for a long winter's nap.

[JohnAdams]

When I said what Mrs. JA said shortly after the affair, it was exactly that, shortly after the affair. As she said, she said many hurtful things shortly after the affair. Do I think she still thinks these things? No! But, yes, I admit, I will never forget the things said. I was merely replying to a comment. I find no humor in the affair at all. Others may, and that may help their healing.

 

So, what are some of the things I learned. One, you never forget. You do forgive. It does not rule your life, but, you can not erase it.

 

Knowing she no longer believes things said early on is helpful. Many years of loving actions means very much. Lessons learned from an affair is a brutal way of learning.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Okayyyyy. All clear now. But don't see why there was any defensiveness in the first place. There was no personal attack. Just reflection on a similar comment.

 

But wait a minute: Do you have to have a great R for your comments to be valid? No contest but I'm not sure that is a measure of anything other than itself. It doesn't change the truth of what things mean. And it's okay that what you said sucked. Being an optimist doesn't change that.

 

I don't need to be right either and am weary of this. It all makes me even sadder - and tired. WS criticism and competition is a major trigger for me. I don't understand it and my resilience ebbs. Time for a long winter's nap.

 

I understood that you were relating to what john said...just as john was relating to what MACBride said.

 

In my post....I was clarifying what i had said to John and I wanted to make sure that it was understood what MY intentions were when i said it and in addition that i had no idea why your sil said what she said. I did not say you attacked me and i am not sure why you seem to think i think that. I had originally ignored John's post....but when you quoted it to respond to it...I felt the need to clarify my own behavior.

 

There is no such thing as a great Reconciliation. There are just Reconciliations....we do things right...we do things wrong....we take two steps forward...we take two steps backward. How do you measure reconciliations? How do you grade them? They are very personal...and measuring one against another is ridiculous. The only reconciliation i care about....the only one i am invested in...is mine.

 

I am sorry if i have caused you to be sadder....I will admit I am not sure why.

WS criticism and competition is a major trigger for me. I don't understand it and my resilience ebbs. If you translated anything I said as criticism of you ...then you have totally and completely misunderstood my entire post...my post was about no one but me....

[Lady Hamilton]

For the second part, if you are a WS, what sort of price do you think your bs paid for the A? Was that worth it to you?

 

A complex question with a complex answer. She was/is physically abusive and when he left, she had to confront a lot of what drove her to be an abuser. That wasn't something we thought would happen and it wasn't our goal, so it's not like we could say that made it "worth it." Even in hindsight, I can't say it was "worth it" persay. She learned nothing from it and is happily replaying it all on the new boyfriend (a fact her own family also sees and is taking steps to prepare for the fallout, as they did when she went off the rails in her first marriage). I used to feel a lot of guilt that, if we hadn't had the affair and they had stayed together, maybe things would have been different for the kids. But now seeing it from the outside, I'm seeing that's not the case. The kids would have been trapped with it 24/7 with no break, no stability.

 

But our situation isn't the norm. She's mentally ill and abusive, physically and otherwise. I mean genuinely mentally ill. He had tried leaving a few times before me and we are still together. We now share custody of the kids with her family and she has visitation 1 day a week because she wasn't interested in the kids after she accepted the relationship was over (which is more recently than it should have been considering its been almost a decade).

 

So, again, we are atypical.

 

For either the bs or ws. if you had to do it all over again, what would you do differently?

 

I'd have waited for him to leave on his own. It would have taken years, but it would have happened. I would have left my husband first. I'd have kept more of our notes and pictures. I would have stood firm on my commitment to not try and "help" her, then and now. I'd have stood up for myself more. I

[Overtaxed]

100% honesty...I regret my relationship got so bad that I handled it by having an A but bc I went in thinking it was an exit A & no longer cared about my marriage or I wouldn't have done it in the first place...so I don't "regret it" bc it did change my marriage for the better...& after I confessed, a month later catching my H also having an A, was actually a blessing in disguise. It made us in a weird way "even" & on the same playing field. Had we not had A, we would have been divorced.

 

It's really funny you say that; because, while I'm still really new in this and I hate what my wife has done, I'm pretty sure we were heading for a divorce when this happened. Now, was it because of the AP? It sure didn't help, that's without question. But the discovery of the affair gave me a glimmer of hope, "here's what's wrong, we can fix this" that before, I really didn't have. Yeah, it's sick.

 

I struggle daily with the thought that this may change our marriage for the "better". It's just impossible to think that something that brings to much pain can have good that comes out of it. And I'm very careful not to let the wife hear these thoughts, rewarding her for the affair is the absolute last thing I want to do. But... In my head, I think it may turn out to be the turning point that saves our marriage, or at least gives it a fighting chance.

[ShatteredLady]

In hindsight I could tell the exact week that my husband's affair started. Our marriage became truly awful. It was breaking me. I too was thinking divorce. I was fighting for my marriage but I was fighting blindfolded!! I believed that it was all my fault....because he told me it was!!

 

Come d-day when I discovered the truth it was kind of a relief. Finally I knew what was going on in my life, why he was cold, mean & distant. He turned against me to justify his appalling actions.

 

Come d-day the affair was over & it was back to just him & me. That's something I can fight for.

[Overtaxed]

In hindsight I could tell the exact week that my husband's affair started. Our marriage became truly awful. It was breaking me. I too was thinking divorce. I was fighting for my marriage but I was fighting blindfolded!! I believed that it was all my fault....because he told me it was!!

 

Come d-day when I discovered the truth it was kind of a relief. Finally I knew what was going on in my life, why he was cold, mean & distant. He turned against me to justify his appalling actions.

 

Come d-day the affair was over & it was back to just him & me. That's something I can fight for.

 

Yup, pretty much word for word. We were struggling and working through issues. Then the affair started and the "struggle" became one sided and the marriage was on the fast track to divorce. In fact, thinking back, it wouldn't surprise me if the first time we said "divorce" to one another was within days of the affair starting. Wife still can't see this; but, to me, it's clear as a bell.

[afoolto no end]

I am a BS and I would say what I learned from my husband's affair is that I thought I could trust him to not hurt me but now I know he would, did.

That is hard to accept he was this person.

I lost a future the way I needed it to be, the way I saw us growing old together, for me the special dates we had to celebrate us are gone......

What did my WS lose or pay to have his affair, his integrity, respect from others. Being responsible for the pain he caused me our family. The price he paid is having to live with the losses and what now stands.....

Would I do anything differently.....I don't know, if I had of chosen other decisions who knows what would have happened.....I just went with what felt right for me to do, what I could live with......

I think for anyone choosing in this kind of situation you lose either way, you have to lose different things in each decisions, it is just a given in this kind of situation, the after affair life is now totally different from the life you had......there has to be an acceptance of who your spouse now is and a decision whether you can accept this new person in your life......very hard road to travel....

I think affairs just hurt everyone, there wasn't anything about it that was worth it in the end.....

It has changed the man I used to know, his torment within himself weighs heavily on him everyday......You just can't take it back or forget it happened.....that is the price both spouses pay in the end.....