Is a Girls Vacation ok??

[Els]

I might be wrong, but I've read that she has two weeks per year, and she would spend one on this trip...

 

If it really was half of her vacation days, I'd understand her H's concern (5 days - which is what you need to take for a week because Sat and Sun are free - are only about 1/6th of our leave here. I had no idea workers in the US had so little leave.). But in that case he should discuss the lack of leave and potentially shortening the trip with her, not make the 'my way or the highway' statements that he's making.

[italianjob]

I fear this is just the start of the OP's problems. If she decides to stay home then a precedent is set and she in effect loses her friends as she can never go visit them.

Where does this end?

 

Married people can't go to visit family without their partner.

Married people can't go out to dinner without their partner.

Married people can't go for coffee with friends without their partner.

Married people can't go to the supermarket without their partner.

Married people can't be seen out on the street without their partner.

 

...but you can do what you like, but if you don't do as I say, then I am getting a divorce...

 

Like most things in this thread it's also valid the other way around...

If she goes and he stays in the marriage a precedent is set that she can decide to do whatever she wants and he just has to gulp it down.

 

He has every right to set his own boundaries.

 

To see if he's serious she should go. If he does nothing he was just being a crybaby, if he walks he had boundaries and meant them...

[italianjob]

If it really was half of her vacation days, I'd understand her H's concern (5 days - which is what you need to take for a week because Sat and Sun are free - are only about 1/6th of our leave here. I had no idea workers in the US had so little leave.). But in that case he should discuss the lack of leave and potentially shortening the trip with her, not make the 'my way or the highway' statements that he's making.

 

I remember reading about weeks (um... Saturday and Sunday are not free in every job, at least here in Italy).

 

Here in Italy people used to have longer leaves (and those under old contracts still have) like you said, but younger people get new contracts with less pay and less free time. So I think the above could be...

[Noirek]

No one should cater to controlling boundaries. Ever. If he would divorce his wife over a vacation that she pays for with money she earned then he is not worth having. If he is going to threaten divorce everytime they disagree on what to do he is not worth having.

 

She isn't telling him that if he doesn't let her go she'll divorce him... he is the one throwing out pretty heavy stuff without even being willing to discuss them. That's not a partnership. If this is really something divorce worthy for him he should have brought it up before marriage. How could she have known?

 

I know a woman who throws fits about her husband going away with his buddies. It is childish of her and destroying their marriage. I am just glad he isn't catering to her unreasonable demands.

[road]

Problem people do not see?

 

 

Called mate protecting.

 

 

Why?

 

 

Because biology and evolution.

 

 

First step in mate protection is to prevent the first step taken on the slippery slope towards behavior that leads to infidelity. To increase the odds to have an affair ruin a marriage is never a wise move.

 

 

I have seen too many marriages end with girls night outs, separated vacations, trips back home, etc.

 

 

Society has learned to identify high risk behaviors and developed codes to live by to lower risks to ruining one's life.

 

 

Those that life by the codes are made fun of being called old fashioned and fuddy duddies, boring, by those that chose to ignore the wisdom of past generations.

[Els]

I remember reading about weeks (um... Saturday and Sunday are not free in every job, at least here in Italy).

 

Here in Italy people used to have longer leaves (and those under old contracts still have) like you said, but younger people get new contracts with less pay and less free time. So I think the above could be...

 

But why do people assume that this is the reason though?

 

Surely, if the issue was lack of leave, a reasonable person would say: "Honey, I support you going on that trip but it only leaves us with one week for ourselves and I would like to be able to take a longer vacation with you. Could you consider only going for 3-4 days so that we can have a longer vacation for ourselves?"

 

What he said, apparently, was:

 

He says "married people don't vacation without their significant others" and "I would never even think of going on a vacation without you". After that he refuses to talk any more and says "you do what you want and then I'll do what I want"

How are you guys skimming over this part???

[Noirek]

Problem people do not see?

 

 

Called mate protecting.

 

 

Why?

 

 

Because biology and evolution.

 

 

First step in mate protection is to prevent the first step taken on the slippery slope towards behavior that leads to infidelity. To increase the odds to have an affair ruin a marriage is never a wise move.

 

 

I have seen too many marriages end with girls night outs, separated vacations, trips back home, etc.

 

 

Society has learned to identify high risk behaviors and developed codes to live by to lower risks to ruining one's life.

 

 

Those that life by the codes are made fun of being called old fashioned and fuddy duddies, boring, by those that chose to ignore the wisdom of past generations.

 

Past generations were full of male infidelity. Story after story. And females too but they could be ruined for it so had to be better at hiding it. My mom is of a previous generation and has always had close girlfriends and went on trips. My mom has never cheated because she doesn't flirt with other men. She has boundaries.

 

I personally am not into vacationing without my husband because we can only afford to vacation once... so we do it together. If we had more money than perhaps it would be different. We have taken seperate trips within the country numerous times. Its nice to get away. Couples that are insecure enough to mateguard are set up for affairs.

 

If the OP is the type of woman to hook up with a stranger and have a ONS than she will do that anywhere. Affairs have nothing to do with girl trips. Affairs are relationships built with someone you know or online. It is only related in the minds of those that see infidelity everywhere and have trusts issues. Everyone else trusts their spouse enough to wish them well and hope they have a good time.

[italianjob]

No one should cater to controlling boundaries. Ever. If he would divorce his wife over a vacation that she pays for with money she earned then he is not worth having. If he is going to threaten divorce everytime they disagree on what to do he is not worth having.

 

She isn't telling him that if he doesn't let her go she'll divorce him... he is the one throwing out pretty heavy stuff without even being willing to discuss them. That's not a partnership. If this is really something divorce worthy for him he should have brought it up before marriage. How could she have known?

 

I know a woman who throws fits about her husband going away with his buddies. It is childish of her and destroying their marriage. I am just glad he isn't catering to her unreasonable demands.

 

Cater to controlling boundaries? If someone thinks married people shouldn't spend vacations with single friends leaving the spouse home, he/she should just accept whatever and shut up?

 

Removing yourself from a situation you don't want to be in is NOT controlling in any way, sorry...

 

He could think that someone who risks the marriage over a week with friends is not worth having...

 

So maybe they should just end the marriage...

[italianjob]

But why do people assume that this is the reason though?

 

Surely, if the issue was lack of leave, a reasonable person would say: "Honey, I support you going on that trip but it only leaves us with one week for ourselves and I would like to be able to take a longer vacation with you. Could you consider only going for 3-4 days so that we can have a longer vacation for ourselves?"

 

What he said, apparently, was:

 

How are you guys skimming over this part???

 

I don't think this is the reason.

 

I think it makes things worse but it's not the reason, IMO.

 

He's not allright with her going on her own...

 

He's entitled to think like that, IMO, the error is they should have discussed boundaries before they got married...

[italianjob]

If the OP is the type of woman to hook up with a stranger and have a ONS than she will do that anywhere. Affairs have nothing to do with girl trips. Affairs are relationships built with someone you know or online. It is only related in the minds of those that see infidelity everywhere and have trusts issues. Everyone else trusts their spouse enough to wish them well and hope they have a good time.

 

I both agree and don't with this...

 

It is true that if someone wants to cheat it can be done with the upstair neighbor.

 

But the key is "wants".

 

I'm convinced that most cheating comes from not being able to resist temptation.

 

So if you go to places where you'll be tempted you might be strong and not fall in to temptation, but if you put yourself in situations that will challenge your intentions you might end up falling where you didn't mean to... So why do it?

Edited January 4, 2017 by italianjob

[YoungInLove]

I don't think this is the reason.

 

I think it makes things worse but it's not the reason, IMO.

 

He's not allright with her going on her own...

 

He's entitled to think like that, IMO, the error is they should have discussed boundaries before they got married...

 

Unfortunately no one knows what he thinks because he has not made his true concerns clear.

 

I have been given the statement "because I said so" which is what I find unacceptable.

 

I have no desire to cheat. I find those that do to be cowards. It is too much work to cheat and if that really was my motive for this trip I've gotta be honest, it would be easier to let him leave and go and find someone at a local bar instead of fighting like this and going to a different country.

 

Vacations were not discussed prior to marriage and I think it is impossible to discuss every scenario that may come up in life prior to marriage. However, in a healthy marriage the couple needs to work together to come to a solution that both understand and agree to.

[italianjob]

Unfortunately no one knows what he thinks because he has not made his true concerns clear.

 

I have been given the statement "because I said so" which is what I find unacceptable.

 

I have no desire to cheat. I find those that do to be cowards. It is too much work to cheat and if that really was my motive for this trip I've gotta be honest, it would be easier to let him leave and go and find someone at a local bar instead of fighting like this and going to a different country.

 

Vacations were not discussed prior to marriage and I think it is impossible to discuss every scenario that may come up in life prior to marriage. However, in a healthy marriage the couple needs to work together to come to a solution that both understand and agree to.

 

Yes I understand that you can't discuss every scenario, but this is not about vacations but about what a spouse can legitimately do without the other and what is a no-no.

 

If you discuss boundaries, that should be one of the first to surface, especially if one of the two has special problems with trust...

 

It looks to me like you're wall against wall in this. Whatever happens with this trip one of you two is going to be hurt, or both, and the relationship will suffer. And I can't really see it getting better over time, it's going to get worse, IMO...

[Got it]

Its not about making a point. Its about you enabling her issue and self entitlement. One should never have to give up something harmless for another person. Fears are often irrational and not something to be catered to if they are. the loving thing is not to demand your spouse give up something. I horseback ride. My husband knew I horseback rode when I married him. It would be completely wrong and selfish of him to even suggest I give it up. Or to be pouty or manipluative about it.

 

Honestly I think if the OP wants to give this a shot she could consider giving up this trip but tell her husband that she will be going on one at a later date for a shorter amount of time and maybe not out of country. Give him time to accept that yes married couples do travel apart and she will not be a prisoner in her own marriage. In the end the choice to leave her over this is on him not her. She isn't handing out ultimatiums, he is.

 

I was thinking the same thing! I came into our relationship riding and competing. If my husband tried to come between me and and horses the marriage would be short lived, it is a non negotiable. This includes sending my one horse to FL every winter to continue her training. In fact, for my birthday this year I said I wanted to go down and ride which means he would take care of our toddler. That is what I want to do and I would be livid if that was seen as anything but a great birthday.

 

And hello fellow eventer! My girl is in Ocala right now enjoying the warm weather while I slave away supporting her! lol. Horse chicks are one of a kind but never get between them and their horses!

Edited January 4, 2017 by Got it

[kgcolonel]

Unfortunately no one knows what he thinks because he has not made his true concerns clear.

 

I have been given the statement "because I said so" which is what I find unacceptable.

 

I have no desire to cheat. I find those that do to be cowards. It is too much work to cheat and if that really was my motive for this trip I've gotta be honest, it would be easier to let him leave and go and find someone at a local bar instead of fighting like this and going to a different country.

 

Vacations were not discussed prior to marriage and I think it is impossible to discuss every scenario that may come up in life prior to marriage. However, in a healthy marriage the couple needs to work together to come to a solution that both understand and agree to.

 

 

Young, I hear you and yes, he is not handling this well at all. However, you knew he had trust issues when you said I do. How long did you date and did you two have any kind of pre-marital counseling? These types of conflicts definitely would have surfaced during the PMC.

 

I too see this as a fork in the road if not in the M. If you go, at the very least he will resent it, if you don't, you will resent it. I will say that once again, you need to decide what is your priority, the M or the trip....either way, I don't think you'll be a bad person but in the end, you need to be true and show him who you are, his wife full time and committed or his wife until a fun opportunity that you don't want to pass on comes up. If its the principle of the matter, you probably need to go however if you value the M more than the Trip and think that you and he can work through this, you should not go.

[BluesPower]

Unfortunately no one knows what he thinks because he has not made his true concerns clear.

 

I have been given the statement "because I said so" which is what I find unacceptable.

 

Actually dear he has been quite clear.

 

He says "married people don't vacation without their significant others" and "I would never even think of going on a vacation without you". After that he refuses to talk any more and says "you do what you want and then I'll do what I want"

 

I don't think it gets any clearer than that. If you think that he is wrong to think that then you have every right to do what you want.

 

And, he has every right to divorce you because you have no respect for his stated boundaries.

 

And you are being completely childish. Let me explain why.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

 

He says: "I do not approve of married people doing x. This is how I feel it and the are the consequences." This is BTW how adults talk. It happens every day on my job where I manage adults.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

 

That is the definition of childish behavior.

[Noirek]

We have many here who truly believe if a man doesn't accept any behavior from his wife it's controlling. They seriously believe it.

 

Classic gaslighting and passive agressive insulting in this one small post.

 

Nobody made this about gender until surprise, some people who rant out of legit arguments did. I even personally used examples where the genders were switched. gender is irrelevant in this story... but nice try. Nobody has even hinted that a man has to accept any and all behaviour. No spouse has to (once again why about the genders? Personal issues probably?).

 

Say the OP cheated. Then his not wanting her to travel without him EVER clearly has a reason. Or how about if she was going with a recently divorced friend who wanted to live it up in vegas? Yeah, i could see that being concerning. Or maybe she travels all the time and constantly away from home.... another issue.

 

With a marriage based on true intimacy and love a couple communicates through these things. One doesn't simply not give a reason and then threaten to live the person. I can't even believe people are calling the OP childish and blaming her here. If her marriage breaks over a vacation then it is in really rough shape. And no "married people don't vacation separately" is not a reason. Because married people do... all the time. Him saying "I don't think married people should go on trips without each other" would be far more accurate. And even still a good sound "why" is in order when one dumps a rule like that in the marriage. The vast majority of cheating we see on here involves work place affairs. Should a spouse say to their faithful partner "i don't believe married people should work"? Of course not. And since all it takes is temptation to cheat... best to avoid the workplace since it is pit of affairs.

 

I was a stay at home mom when i cheated. Does that mean married people shouldn't be stay at home parents?

My aunt had an EA whith a fellow student while upgrading. Does that mean married people shouldn't take higher learning?

A friend's wife cheated on him on a work trip. Had a ONS. Does that mean married people shouldn't go on business trips?

And of course my earlier example of the most common cheating of all... the workplace affair.

 

I do believe the OP is in a tight spot. Her husband was childish to threaten divorce over this. Childish to make up so bogus about married people not taking trips apart. And childish to not even discuss why he has a problem with it or maybe her taking a different trip in country or shorter duration. However, if he has some deep seated trust issues than the OP needs to be understanding of that. But how long should she be treated like a WS when she hasn't done anything to deserve it? This isn't about winning or losing. It is about evaluating whether or not one can live with a spouse who threatens divorce and shuts down without discussing things.

 

I still believe she should not go on this trip. But plan another, simpler one and give him plenty of warning she is going. Let him know that if he wants to express why he is opposed to her being out of his sight they can. But giving up travelling without your spouse forever? Thats up to the OP. I wouldn't recommend it. This isn't a small request or a reasonable one.

 

In an end example. I was opposed to my husband going on a trip with the guys. He was going to be busy a lot of the time and I hated the thought of not seeing f him for a week.. I also had a small baby and toddler at home. I am however not his mommy and did not forbid it. I expressed my concerns and dislike. And yes I was disappointed when he went anyways. But I didn't pout or carry on. And I most certainly didn't threaten divorce because he didn't cater to me.

[Whoknew30]

Actually dear he has been quite clear.

 

 

 

I don't think it gets any clearer than that. If you think that he is wrong to think that then you have every right to do what you want.

 

And, he has every right to divorce you because you have no respect for his stated boundaries.

 

And you are being completely childish. Let me explain why.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

 

He says: "I do not approve of married people doing x. This is how I feel it and the are the consequences." This is BTW how adults talk. It happens every day on my job where I manage adults.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

 

That is the definition of childish behavior.

 

Saying bc I said so...is not clear. That's so extremely male chauvinist & male chauvinist thinking is extremely childish to where this is no actual way to respond back as an adult to it. So no it's not how adults in a relationship talk & this coming from a girl that was raised by the most chauvinistic men that I've ever come across...

 

A boundary is actual discussed & a real adult knows why they have that boundary, they don't say "bc that's the way it is" that dies not sound like an adult in a relationship...sounds like a boss that doesn't want to discuss something with an employee...not a wife, you don't treat your wife like an employee. If he wants to be a male chauvinist, maybe he shouldn't of married someone that makes more money. You can't have traditional roles in one aspect & then live in the "now" in others, doesn't work.

 

OP...you are not being a child...the only logic that comes from, would be male chauvinist thinking or from women that allow their H with a 100% control over their lives, which is fine but if you're not ok with that that's where the issue lies.

 

I was raised like that & knew i didn't want my marriage that way but the men in my family got to my H & he turned...Years of build up & one day I snapped & I no longer cared about my marriage...once a man gets into "this is how it is" it's a hard habit to break & if the wife isn't ok with that, it will eat at you. Took me 9 years of taking it before i no longer cared about my marriage...it's your choice & it's not about the trip, it's about his handling of it. How will he handle future issues, you going to live your life hearing "no, that's the way it is & I'll leave you"...sucks to live that way. If you can come together & get him to see it's not about the actual trip but the way he's treating you like a child...you'll be able to stop it before it turns into animosity.

[usa1ah]

Understand spending time with friends. But why would anyone in a committed relationship want to go on vacation without their SO.

 

Also if you read these forms, you will see many of SO's have gone in these girls only and out of the blue in a drunken state cheat on their SO. None of them set out to do so, just got caught up in the moment.

 

There was a girl that posted what had happen in Vegas on her bachelorette party. She was devastated afterwards. Don't know the out come she just stopped posting after a few postings. I hope he found out before he tied the knot.

 

Good luck on your trip.

[Noirek]

Do you guys only get 10 days of leave a year in the US?

 

In canada vacation leave is dependant on the company but with a required base of two weeks (10 days). It is paid out based on how many hours you work. At my place of employment I am at 3 weeks. However since it really is by hours and I work 12 hour shifts i get 12 paid vacation days, plus 3 LOAs plus a paid floater day (full day off with full pay). At the end of the year I get the remaining vacation pay I have earned paid out. Some places roll over. Since I do shift work though I basically take 7 days off and have three weeks of vacation. Living the dream.

[VeveCakes]

I was thinking the same thing! I came into our relationship riding and competing. If my husband tried to come between me and and horses the marriage would be short lived, it is a non negotiable. This includes sending my one horse to FL every winter to continue her training. In fact, for my birthday this year I said I wanted to go down and ride which means he would take care of our toddler. That is what I want to do and I would be livid if that was seen as anything but a great birthday.

 

And hello fellow eventer! My girl is in Ocala right now enjoying the warm weather while I slave away supporting her! lol. Horse chicks are one of a kind but never get between them and their horses!

 

just wanted to say hi to the fellow eventers

[Noirek]

I was thinking the same thing! I came into our relationship riding and competing. If my husband tried to come between me and and horses the marriage would be short lived, it is a non negotiable. This includes sending my one horse to FL every winter to continue her training. In fact, for my birthday this year I said I wanted to go down and ride which means he would take care of our toddler. That is what I want to do and I would be livid if that was seen as anything but a great birthday.

 

And hello fellow eventer! My girl is in Ocala right now enjoying the warm weather while I slave away supporting her! lol. Horse chicks are one of a kind but never get between them and their horses!

 

It was my love for riding and horses that helped me be objective about his love for motorbikes.

[BluesPower]

Whoknew30 - I know you can read and write. Did you not see where he did not say because I said so? He said this below.........

 

He says: "I do not approve of married people doing x. This is how I feel it and these are the consequences."

 

What part of that do you not understand? That is in OP's original post. Her words not mine.

 

And DTK3 is, as usual, completely and totally correct with his last post.

 

Whoknew30 - Why can't you just admit that you just never want anyone to say anything about what you want to do. If they disagree for what ever reason the in your mind they are controlling.

[amaysngrace]

Your man's got issues. Why other men are defending his dysfunctional thinking is beyond me.

 

What if your friends all get married and you are going through or have gone through divorce...would you not be invited to girls trips because you're now the "wild free divorcee"? Would you expect the same mentality from your friends that your husband has?

 

Why or why not?

[Noirek]

Whoknew30 - I know you can read and write. Did you not see where he did not say because I said so? He said this below.........

 

He says: "I do not approve of married people doing x. This is how I feel it and these are the consequences."

 

What part of that do you not understand? That is in OP's original post. Her words not mine.

 

And DTK3 is, as usual, completely and totally correct with his last post.

 

Whoknew30 - Why can't you just admit that you just never want anyone to say anything about what you want to do. If they disagree for what ever reason the in your mind they are controlling.

 

Actually Blues you are wrong. He said married people don't not married people shouldn't. One is a misguided understanding of what healthy married people do and the other is an opinion. The OP herself said he "because I said so" whether those were his words or merely his attitude I am not sure. Even still one shouldn't make up some big rule like that without discussing the whys with their spouse. Would it be okay for him to say she can't work? Drive a car? Go for dinner with a girlfriend? Have female friends? Get a perm? Her going on a trip is not a life altering thing, like buying a house or having a child. It should not be anywhere near the realm of ending a marriage. And the fact he immediently jumped to that is concerning.

 

And how exactly is DTK3 right? Where is this about gender? My advice would certainly not change if the rolls were switched. Woukd yours? If so that is your sexist issue not mine. I personally know many women who are controlling and treat their husbands like children.

[elaine567]

And you are being completely childish. Let me explain why.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

 

He says: "I do not approve of married people doing x. This is how I feel it and the are the consequences." This is BTW how adults talk. It happens every day on my job where I manage adults.

 

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

You say: "I want to do x".

 

That is the definition of childish behavior.

 

This is not how adults talk this is parent/child or boss/employee talk.

One holds all the power and makes a decision, a decision which is final.

The other may complain, they may make valid points, they may be "right" but are still dismissed as they are in effect powerless.

It is then easy for the powerful one to accuse the other of being "childish" to underline their power over them even more.

 

In the OPs case, the husband made a decision and backed it up with the threat of divorce which gave him "the power" here.

Unless she is willing to risk divorce over this, and I guess she isn't, then she has to accede to his wishes.

He knows that - it is thus manipulation.

He is exerting control.

Next time, she will not even ask his permission, she will tell her friends she cannot go...

It is a slippery slope many women find themselves on.

He is only looking out for her, he is only jealous as he loves her soo much, he adores her so why wouldn't he always want to be at her side, its cute, its lovely...

Until it isn't.

The OP just had a peek behind the mask here.

She ignores this at her peril.