My (28M) girlfriend (27F) of three years. Is she the one?

[John89]

I am questioning our relationship as it comes time to propose and have children. She wants children now and she has been mentioning marriage more in the last six months. The trouble is, I don't know what I want.

 

I feel stagnant in this relationship. She drinks a lot so most of our spare time is centered around drinking. I used to be really ambitious but now I love doing nothing with her. I am that infatuated with her.

 

I am losing sight of the person I wanted to become and am becoming a person I don't like. Her negative personality traits, like her judgmental attitude towards other people, rub off on me and I am becoming more like her in all aspects, even when I don't like those parts of her. My family hates her which sucks because I was really close to them.

 

We fight like jack*ss*s, though we've been good for about six months now, and the fighting to romance phases are pretty astonishing. Right after a fight, particularly a demon of a fight, we are so in love that we surely sicken people. It's like we almost lose each other and then have a waking up moment, get back together, and are blissfully distracted from our problems for a short time while we rekindle and soak each other up. Those are my favorite times. So it goes: fight, bliss, stagnant boredom, fight, bliss (well, you get the picture).

 

She is suicidal so leaving her has me on alert but I don't think she would do anything, though this is something she has threatened before.

 

I know this sounds awful. There are amazing things about her, too. She is educated, intelligent, kind and takes care of me and puts up with my bull. We really do love each other. I am obviously guilty in this too because I fight and I indulge her behavior. I just wonder if I am transforming into a person I can't stand and will end up in a place in life where I don't take a hard look back before it's too late.

 

Does anyone have advice/suggestions? Has anyone been through this before? Maybe I have cold feet.

[ExpatInItaly]

Those cold feet you are feeling are actually your instincts kicking in and trying to tell you that your relationship - as it stands now - is not healthy or strong enough to make permanent.

 

You have listed several valid concerns. The dynamic you describe is dysfunctional, and all the arguing and negativity and alcohol consumption has eroded what should be a secure and loving bond. She sounds emotionally unstable (what with suicide threats) and you sound like you're participating quite equally though you now recognize this isn't a happy union anymore. This is important because it suggests you are perhaps already emotionally detaching and wanting an out.

 

Tell me, what benefit do you see in getting married to her?

[ChevyCamaro]

It would be really convenient if you demanded that she quit drinking as heavily as she does (and you too) before you're even thinking of marriage...

 

Living with an alcoholic is not very pleasant.

[John89]

Hello there, I don't see a benefit in getting married. I'm scared to live the rest of my life like this. She is wanting commitment though and I don't know if I am ready to lose her. I can't even imagine a life without her.

 

Do you have experience with this? I have her as the middle of my world and I don't think it's healthy. I am trying to pull back. I know we aren't healthy. I just don't know how to pull back or if we can even make this work long term? Ripping the bandaid off quick would be best if I knew we weren't compatible long term.

[John89]

I don't drink near as much as she does but I would still consider my drinking to be unhealthy. I would be better without alcohol. How would I go about asking her to take a break from drinking?

[ChevyCamaro]

I don't drink near as much as she does but I would still consider my drinking to be unhealthy. I would be better without alcohol. How would I go about asking her to take a break from drinking?

 

You don't necessarily need to stop drinking completely, but cutting down a lot would be good. If your girlfriend is worse already than you, then it's going to get even worse. You are going to become her "assistant" and witness very unpleasant things such as urine in the bed and a complete mixture of disgusting things everywhere in your home (I know this personally).

 

So before I would even consider marriage and kids I would demand that she stop drinking (for her it's best if she stops completely). The only thing you can do is to talk with her about it and demand abstinence from alcohol before marrying her.

[Noirek]

Exsessive drinking, perhaps even alcholism, is often a depressed person's way of self medicating. She is suicidal? Is she getting help? That needs to be addressed.

 

Children should not be brought into a home with excessive drinking and where someone is already suicidal. A child will not fix the problems but rather magnify them. From the hormonal componant of pregnancy and post natal to the 100% commitment to raising children should not be added to this disfunction.

 

If you love her and want this to work she needs to get help and get sober. You guys can work on this together.

 

It sounds like there is a reason your family doesn't like her.

 

If she is unwilling to work on herself then you should consider ending the relationship. It is unhealthy for both of you. If she threatens suicide report her. Professionals will take care of her.

[mikeylo]

You drink. She drinks. You want her to stop ? Stop yourself first. Double standards much ?

 

I often hear people saying that the spouse is judgmental. And when probed, it usually comes down to the fact that one of them has lose boundaries and the other calls them on it and the label judgmental and some other get pasted.

 

If you don't believe in marriage and she wants one , then you what you are basically doing now is using her till you are ready to drop her. Karma is a bitch !

[Downtown]

I know this sounds awful.

No, John, it sounds borderline. As Expat observes, your GF "sounds emotionally unstable." Such instability is one of the key defining traits for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Indeed, of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the only one for which instability is a defining trait.

 

Moreover, several other behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control (drinking), and verbal abuse -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

Has anyone been through this before?

If your GF really is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent traits), you will find that numerous active LoveShack members have been through the same experience. In my case, I was married to a BPDer woman for 15 years.

 

She is suicidal so leaving her has me on alert but I don't think she would do anything, though this is something she has threatened before.

One of the nine defining behaviors for BPD is "Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting." See Nine Defining Traits.

 

The fighting to romance phases are pretty astonishing.... So it goes: fight, bliss, stagnant boredom, fight, bliss (well, you get the picture).

Yes, when a BPDer is behaving good, she will treat you very VERY good -- "astonishing," as you say. And when she is treating you bad, she will be horrid. You are describing the push-away/pull-back cycle that is a hallmark of BPDer relationships.

 

This push-pull cycle occurs due to the position of the BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- being at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means you are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. She therefore will create an argument -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away.

 

Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. Once that fear is triggered, she will start love bombing you to pull you back closer to her. Sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

 

There are amazing things about her, too. She is educated, intelligent, kind and takes care of me and puts up with my bull. We really do love each other.

BPDers generally are not bad people. Their problem is not being "bad" but, rather, "unstable." Moreover, the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who are very easy to fall in love with because they exhibit a spontaneity, vulnerability, and purity of expression that otherwise is only seen in young children. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

It's like we almost lose each other and then have a waking up moment, get back together, and are blissfully distracted from our problems for a short time

Like young children, BPDers are very easy to fall in love with and very hard to walk away from. Indeed, walking away from a BPDer can feel like you're abandoning a sick child who desperately needs you. The result is that it is common for the abused partners of BPDers to attempt to leave many times. BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups.

 

A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

She drinks a lot so most of our spare time is centered around drinking.

Because impulsive behavior is one of the nine defining traits for BPD, it is not surprising that a large share of BPDers abuse alcohol. A 2008 study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that 46% of the female BPDers (and 71% of male BPDers) exhibit an alcohol-use disorder.

 

Her negative personality traits, like her judgmental attitude towards other people, rub off on me....

If she is a BPDer, the "judgmental attitude" she has towards others likely arises from her black-white thinking. Like young children, BPDers are too emotionally immature to tolerate experiencing two strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) simultaneously. They therefore greatly simplify their interactions with others by categorizing everyone as "all good" (with me) or "all bad" (against me). And they will sometimes recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in less than a minute -- based entirely on a minor comment or action.

 

As to this black-white childish thinking "rubbing off" on you, yes it likely will to some extent. The abused ex-partners of BPDers often refer to this process of acquiring the negative features of a BPDer's behavior as "picking up fleas."

 

I am losing sight of the person I wanted to become and am becoming a person I don't like.

If you really have been dating a BPDer for three years, you've been walking on eggshells for most of that time to avoid triggering her anger. This means that, over two years ago, you stopped behaving like your true self and started behaving like the man she wants you to be. Your biggest problem, however, is not losing sight of the man you want to become but, rather, losing sight of the man you once were.

 

She wants children now and she has been mentioning marriage more in the last six months.

John, if you are still considering having children with your GF, it is very important that you find out whether her BPD traits are at a strong and persistent level. The psychiatric community believes that BPD is passed from one generation to the next through a combination of genetics and early childhood environment (i.e., treatment by the parents). The risk of BPD being passed on to a child is not yet known because only a few small studies (of twins) have been done. Those studies indicate that, when a first-degree relative has BPD, the chance a child will have it is roughly 15% to 30%. The more recent studies support the larger figure.

 

Does anyone have advice/suggestions?

Given your reluctance to leave her, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Expat and the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., remaining in this toxic relationship for many more years -- or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, John.

[MadJackBird]

What Downtown said.

 

After reading your post I immediately thought Borderline Personality Disorder, Or at the least alcoholism. Either way RUN... Don't walk away. I was married to someone with BPD for 12+ years and it is very very difficult.

 

Don't have children with this person, because they best thing to do when dealing with BPD is completely cutting them out of your life. If you have children you will always have to deal with them on some level and it is difficult to co-parent with a BPD.

[oldshirt]

You can't have a stable relationship with an unstable person.

[Satu]

If nothing changes, nothing will change.

 

The only person's behaviour you can change is your own, so focus on yourself.

 

Address your own drinking, and either cut down, or stop.

 

That should be your first step.

 

 

Take care.

[RecentChange]

You can't have a stable relationship with an unstable person.

 

This this this!!!!

 

Nor a stable marriage, nor a stable home life for children.

 

You think you two have been tested now? You think you two have fights now?

 

Wait until all the pressures, the lack of sleep, the finical stress of having children comes into the mix. Children and marriage are the ultimate tests of compatablity.

 

You two do not have any of these tests right now, yet your relationship is full of strife.

 

PLEASE do not start having children. I also think marriage would be a huge mistake. Marriage does not make anything better - so you better be in an amazing place before you exchange vows.

 

Also, if you can't TALK to her about the drinking, you have no business talking about marriage.

[RecentChange]

 

Do you have experience with this? I have her as the middle of my world and I don't think it's healthy. I am trying to pull back. I know we aren't healthy. I just don't know how to pull back or if we can even make this work long term?

 

Read up on codependency

[Mr. Lucky]

Read up on codependency

 

Bingo.

 

John89, you're enabling her sickness. She needs your support to continue drinking and you need her instability to generate the drama you seem to enjoy rescuing her from. Not a healthy relationship for either of you...

 

Mr. Lucky