I don't think my daughter is mine

[salparadise]

VicHri, do you think that her BF was sincere in his feelings for your W or for the daughter? It is beginning to look as though she is being played. He has told her that he doesn't want a R with her and he doesn't want to be a father to your youngest. That being understood, it looks like your dear wife is nothing more that a booty call for the ex...I don't mean to be crude or disrespectful to the one you love but my goodness, did she and is she ever getting played!!

 

Do you think you can grasp her statement that she would not run off with him but would want to....(what does she expect you to do with that statement)?

 

Here in the traditional marriage ceremonies, there is a vow to Love, Honor and Cherish and to forsake all others (including exbf's). In addition to the infidelity, she's basically telling you that she's incapable of forsaking her exbf. I feel for you Brother....real tough situation.

 

 

This is how I see it too. If I were you, OP, I'd be a lot more angry at the cuckoldry and ongoing deceptions... and the bullshyt where she's giving you crumbs and saying that she'd "want to" leave you for him. That would be too much for most men. I feel really sad for you and can't imagine how hard this time must be. I hope you will eventually find a way to make peace with it all, and find real happiness with someone who adores and respects you completely.

[JuneL]

She was smart enough to deceive you for years.

 

Sorry men but you are her plan B.

 

And she was smart enough to use you as her plan B!

[whichwayisup]

Get Michael to sign over his parental rights and you adopt your daughter to make sure she's always yours and he can never take her from you. With that said, she has a right to spend time with him and know him but you are her daddy.

 

Your wife is manipulative and selfish. She's very naive but far from stupid. She is a skilled liar, though she's not malicious. The choices she's continued to make have all been all about her. She has no backbone.

[sandylee1]

Afterwards she regretted it and didn't know what she was going to do.

 

Surely she knows about what we call in UK and the morning after pill or some countries call it plan BEmergency contraception, just in case she was pregnant after having unprotected sex in the month she ovulates.

 

She knew she was wasnt pregnant before going on the visit, so any possible pregnancy would be his child.

 

She probably did panic afterwards, but the desire to have his child and do it differently this time took top position.

 

And to add to it of course, their daughter knows your wife cheated, unless they've spun her a story. The poor girl must think what messed up bio parents she has. From teenage pregnancy, to adoption, one gets married, has kids, cheats with bio dad and gets pregnant and boom.......! new baby sister.

 

Don't settle for less than you deserve. You sound like a very good man and through the pain she's caused, you still try to defend your wife.

 

Some people never get over their first love, even when they marry someone else...... but they don't go and get pregnant by them.

[beautifulinside2]

I expect this post to be scattered. There is too much on my mind currently to have clear thoughts.

 

Competing with her ex is something that I am worried about. That is the man that she loves, and she loves me too, but she loved him first and she loves him differently. I don't doubt that she loves me, but who is she in love with is the question...

 

Based on her words, her ex doesn't want a family or a serious relationship. He isn't married and hasn't been in a serious relationship since my wife. My wife and her ex were in a relationship for 7 years (or so) before he called it quits. Then she waited around for 3-4 years for him to change his mind. I think she has been waiting a lot longer than that. I did ask her if she would leave if her ex wanted her. Her response was: No, she never would, but she would want to. She said she will always feel close to him, even though she doesn't want to. That they went through too much together and the bond will always be there even if she doesn't want it to be.

 

By "step up" she said she meant be a part of "their" daughters life so our daughter wouldn't feel abandoned. Not to run of with him. Again, that's what she said...

 

In defence of my wife I will say that 2012 was a crappy, crappy year for her. She lost 3 immediate family members that year, their were a lot of problems with her immediate family fighting over assets, our home was being renovated and anything that could go wrong was going wrong, we were struggling to conceive, her daughters adoptive parents moved, their visits changed, they stopped sending pictures as often, they wouldn't let my wife talk to her or see her on the daughter's birthday, they talked about closing the adoption until the daughter was 18. When she says it was a ****ty year, it was.

 

With our sons my wife conceived on the 3rd month of trying. It was the same with miscarriages that we had, conceived the 3rd month. My wife only ovulates every 3rd month so technically, she got pregnant on the first try every time. We all know it only takes one time to get pregnant. So is it possible it was only two times (in one day), yes. I haven't decided if I believe it yet.

 

She told her ex that I knew it wasn't my daughter. I have never had a conversation with him. The law in my country is that you have 1 year from the day you are informed you may be or have reason to believe you may be the biological father to act. So unless he found a way to fight it, he has no right to my daughter. That doesn't stop my wife from letting him see my daughter, he just won't get custody. My wife said he signed something that said he didn't want to be involved, we didn't get too into that so I don't know what it was but she says she has the paperwork.

 

I have to take into account that my wife's ex is my daughters biological father and my daughter has a full sister. I cannot be the one to decide they cannot be in her life anymore, that is for my daughter to decide when she is old enough. Unfortunately that means if my wife and I stay together the ex may always be in the background. I'd want to be the one to handle visitation, no longer my wife.

 

In regards to having the letter written out 32 times, I'm not sure how I feel about it... I could have found it at any time, maybe she wanted me to. She wrote them over a period of 2 years. Each was dated, which could be total BS. But some she tried to write in English and it gradually got better, she has always been able to speak English well but wasn't fluent. She has been working on it over the last year and there was a noticeable difference in the letters.

 

I do appreciate that she "came clean" on her own, to a degree. She didn't know what I knew. But is it enough... I don't believe a polygraph would be easy to come by here. She gave me her phone, without me asking, and said I can look through whatever I want. The texts to her ex go back to February 2016, on Facebook they go back to 2007 (one month before we met). If non messages had been deleted and I had all the time in the world I could read their conversations through our entire relationship and marriage.

I've waited my entire life to find a man like you. Someone who is understanding a great father and loves me with all his being. Too bad your wife received such a gift because she doesn't deserve you and you don't deserve her (you deserve better). I hope some day you will realize it before you waste anymore of your life playing second fiddle and being lied to..

[VicHri]

And she was smart enough to use you as her plan B!

 

Yes, that is true. At the moment I feel like that was dumb luck on her part.

 

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe emergency contraception is only available with a (I can't remember what you call them in English), a thing from a doctor. One of the only countries that isn't over the counter. This occurred over Christmas and naturally appointments are harder to come by. I don't know if she used it or not.

 

Now that you bring it up, I do wonder what she/they told their (older) daughter regarding her younger sister.

 

Regardless of whether we work this out or divorce, my wife and possibly her ex are always going to be in my life because of the kids. Through this process I'm trying to stay on decent terms with her and not do anything stupid but that is getting harder.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Vic,

 

Two facts jump out at me that stand in contrast to her story. I think they destroy the narrative she has produced.

 

First: the many phone calls sometimes twice a day you informed us of early on. Why the long phone calls? I can only conclude she missed him and wanted to be with him. Again you are just a FWB, a placeholder.

 

Second: your wife's oldest daughter knows your daughter is her sister. Your daughter only knows she is the older girls sister but only like her brothers are the oldest's are. You wife stated she thought your daughter was not yours, the OM thought the same but the oldest sister knew different, how?

 

It makes more sense that the first time she committed adultery occurred as she stated but everything else she has told you is a lie. There is a movie from the eighties "same time next year". Where a couple would spend one week-end a year together and did so for decades. That week-end was their life the rest of the year was spent waiting. What a horrible existence for there spouses.

 

You do not know what it is like to be in a real marriage. From the outside yes but not from the inside. Your entire marriage your WW has spent in emotional adultery and the last several physical and emotional adultery.

 

Her boyfriend has the soul of a pimp. Your wife emotional and physical relationships mirrors that of a prositute with her pimp. I am not saying she is one, I am saying the relationship with OM is like it. He began grooming her when she was 12. How much older is he ?

 

Do not become a KISA. search the term knight in shinning armor. If you go down that path you will cripple not only yourself but your sons. My parents raised a nephew and fostered a child. Both where younger then their children. But they never cheated their children emotionally or financially. Your sons are all ready being cheated emotionally because of your WW relationship with OM. Financially from your discription I do not think so. But again the trip, and the twice a day phone calls and the time living in her fantasy world - yes very much so.

[PrettyEmily77]

No wise words or advice at this difficult time, VicHri - the only thing coming through my mind is that this little girl is very fortunate to have such a dignified and considerate parent looking out for her in the midst of all this dysfunction.

 

No doubt even harder times will come; I hope you find the support and strength to guide you through all this, for the sake of your children of course, but for your own sake too.

[bluefeather]

So am I supposed to forgive this because she's a bit naive and not so intelligent? I don't know how much of an excuse that can be.

 

Well, here is what I would suggest if you were asking me. You can forgive to help yourself heal. But forgiving her does not mean trying to work things out. I might try to forgive her... after divorce.

 

I just realized that this deception was not only played on you. It was also played on your children Ask yourself how ok you are with that, and maybe it will help bring you clarity.

[road]

I strongly disagree...I have just dealt with a 17 yr old nephew who tried to commit suicide after getting drug into his mom's..my sisters drama. Both parties bad mouthing each other in front of the 2 children for the last 10 yrs. All the licensed professionals agrre on keeping the adult drama to themselves as young children ALWAYS blame themselves.

 

Calmly stating the facts without bias, or attacking each other is not how the children are to be told. If the child is exposed to drama then that is the fault of the parents and in the end the consequences of the WS's behavior.

[road]

I don't think the sex ever stopped.

 

 

I don't see this marriage being saved unless she goes NC with the OM and the girl she gave up for adoption.

[road]

So am I supposed to forgive this because she's a bit naive and not so intelligent? I don't know how much of an excuse that can be.

 

 

No you are not supposed to. You need to shift through the facts, carefully.

[anika99]

I did ask her if she would leave if her ex wanted her. Her response was: No, she never would, but she would want to.

 

Awww...that's sweet. It also pretty much sums up the situation. The OM is the man she wants to be with, he is the one she is in love with. She won't leave you because she knows you're the best father and provider, but if it weren't for that she would be gone before you could say "here's your coat".

 

I think she's telling the truth about some things and lying about a lot of other things. I believe she has had an ongoing off/on affair with this guy for years. What does she mean she tried to get him to step up and be a father to your daughter? How exactly was he supposed to do that while she was actively deceiving you? The only thing she could mean is that she wanted to leave you for him and have him step into the role of father to her children. Here she is being truthful but you are not comprehending what she means.

 

She may be all tears and acting remorseful with you but apparently she was happy to gush to her adopted daughter all about her full baby sister. Surely her adopted daughter knows your wife is married. How in the world did your wife consider it appropriate to let her daughter know that she cheated on her husband and had a baby? That's outrageous. The OM doesn't care about his children, he doesn't want them. The only reason he travels every year to see his daughter is because he wants to see your wife and he isn't doing all that travelling just to have a chit chat over coffee. There is more going on.

 

I won't tell you to leave your wife, that is up to you, but you should take steps to protect yourself and your relationship with your children.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi,

 

Forgiveness does not mean acceptance. You can forgive and divorce.

 

Acceptance does not mean forgiveness. You can reconcile and over time, from what I've read 2 to 5 years, forgive. Often I sense this is the case.

 

Regardless you can never forget.

[sandylee1]

Quote from the OP

 

 

She told me to wait and went to our room and came back out with a notebook that had a letter to me written slightly differently each time, but 32 times. The closest translation dialog I can come up with is:

 

"The final day, after saying goodbye, that I was visiting Elena, December 31, I had sex with Micheal. We had been talking and were both upset. He said he wished he had never pushed adoption on me and would do it differently if he could.

It was wrong and I promptly knew that. I would like to say that I wasn't trying/attempting to get pregnant but that would be dishonest. There was a part of me that wanted to be pregnant again with Micheal's baby so I could "redo" [not the word I'm going for] my mistakes. Through trying to fix mistakes I had many more.

 

I have wanted him to step up, for Emma, however he won't. You are her dad and that will never change.

 

 

The conversation went on to discuss more details.

 

-the first time they had sex she initiated, the second time he pushed for it and she allowed it to happen because she was too upset to care and wasn't thinking.

 

-he sees both the girls at the same time every year and otherwise doesn't see either of them

-my wife hoped that he would step up for our daughters sake, which is also why she sends pictures to him

 

I time, hate might be too strong of a word. I hate her actions, not necessarily her. I have told my wife that I need some time to think and I am taking some time away.

 

 

I just reread this and have homed in on a few points.

 

Her Ex made the first comment and she interpreted that to mean he'd do it differently given the chance and that planted the seed in her head about having his child.

 

She thought it would be different this time (maybe both being older) and had he committed to a relationship with her, she'd have got what she always wanted.

 

He didn't and that's the only reason she regrets the mess it has caused, because history has repeated itself.

 

Had she known this would happen for a certainty, maybe she wouldn't have done it.

Edited January 18, 2017 by sandylee1
Redacted quote

[AMarriedMan]

My wife's relationship experience is her ex and I. She hasn't so much as been on a date with another man, kissed another man or talked to another man in a way to get to know him. I believe she was 12 or 13 years old when she got into a relationship with her ex. She isolated herself (or he isolated her I'm not sure) so that he was the only person she was around until she graduated. She had no other friends that I'm aware of. In université she was the same, she kept to herself and went through with very little interaction with others and no real friends.

 

In her relationship with her ex, he did all sorts of dumb **** that she let slide. Cheating, getting her pregnant at 14, pushing for adoption, pushing for unprotected sex after the adoption, dumped her without giving her a reason and she still waited around for years while he jerked her around. She still can't see that he was playing her then and my guess is that he still is.

 

It appears to me that your wife's ex has obvious dark triad traits. Is he more than four years older than your wife? I mean, was he 18 or older when he got your to-be-wife pregnant? Would that have been a crime where you are? My guess is that you are most likely in the French speaking part of Switzerland. If so, would it still be possible to prosecute the ex for statutory rape? A prison term while convicted of a sex crime would serve him right.

 

 

I don't understand her ex's intent either. Going back, he somehow convinced my wife that getting pregnant at 14 would be a good idea. When she got pregnant he blamed her and pushed/mandated adoption. I don't believe he ever wanted an open adoption. 4 years ago was basically history repeating itself, if what my wife says is true.

 

 

What young man would want his teenage girlfriend to get pregnant? Teenage boys or young men in their early twenties normally consider fathering children their worst nightmare. Do you have any reason to believe the first pregnancy was his idea? Do you have any reason to believe your wife if she told you her ex pressured her to become pregnant at the age of 14? Most likely the first pregnancy was nobody's idea. Just two teenagers being dumb and not thinking about the consequences of having unprotected sex.

 

What is the family background of your wife like? Twelve years old and in a sexual relationship with a budding sociopath? Why didn't her parents stop her? Child protective services must have been involved at the time she gave birth to her first daughter and when she put her up for adoption. Why didn't they do anything?

 

 

You aren't alone on that thought. I definitely feel that she settled because he didn't want her.

 

I have doubts that she only had sex with him that one day. It seems much more likely that they had sex every visit. He doesn't have much of a reason to go otherwise. He doesn't want to be a dad. He does want to screw my wife though. Or as you say, "get the perks". Or dick her around.

 

I do agree. What happens if he decides he wants to be a father and husband, and be that for her. She's stupid enough to fall for it, and I don't intend that to be mean, it's just how it is. She doesn't notice these things.

 

 

I will not express in writing what I feel should be done with your wife's ex because, surely, doing so would violate the rules of this discussion board.

 

 

I have serious doubts. I didn't know her through their relationship and I don't know him at all so I can't say without a doubt. My gut instinct is that maybe he cared about her in the beginning, but somewhere along the line that changed and he just used her to jerk around. I have said things along that line to her, and she doesn't see it.

 

I have absolutely no idea what she wants me to do with that statement. What shocked me was that she thought it was a perfectly reasonable and understandable thing to say. She didn't get it.

 

So am I supposed to forgive this because she's a bit naive and not so intelligent? I don't know how much of an excuse that can be.

 

It seems to me that your wife is a weak-minded woman without the moral fiber and mental fortitude necessary to resist her worst impulses, and that her ex is an amoral bastard, which explains your wife's mysteriously strong and long-lasting bond with the scumbag.

[italianjob]

Quote from the OP

 

 

She told me to wait and went to our room and came back out with a notebook that had a letter to me written slightly differently each time, but 32 times. The closest translation dialog I can come up with is:

 

"The final day, after saying goodbye, that I was visiting Elena, December 31, I had sex with Micheal. We had been talking and were both upset. He said he wished he had never pushed adoption on me and would do it differently if he could.

It was wrong and I promptly knew that. I would like to say that I wasn't trying/attempting to get pregnant but that would be dishonest. There was a part of me that wanted to be pregnant again with Micheal's baby so I could "redo" [not the word I'm going for] my mistakes. Through trying to fix mistakes I had many more.

 

I have wanted him to step up, for Emma, however he won't. You are her dad and that will never change.

 

 

The conversation went on to discuss more details.

 

-the first time they had sex she initiated, the second time he pushed for it and she allowed it to happen because she was too upset to care and wasn't thinking.

 

-he sees both the girls at the same time every year and otherwise doesn't see either of them

-my wife hoped that he would step up for our daughters sake, which is also why she sends pictures to him

 

I time, hate might be too strong of a word. I hate her actions, not necessarily her. I have told my wife that I need some time to think and I am taking some time away.

 

 

I just reread this and have homed in on a few points.

 

Her Ex made the first comment and she interpreted that to mean he'd do it differently given the chance and that planted the seed in her head about having his child.

 

She thought it would be different this time (maybe both being older) and had he committed to a relationship with her, she'd have got what she always wanted.

 

He didn't and that's the only reason she regrets the mess it has caused, because history has repeated itself.

 

Had she known this would happen for a certainty, maybe she wouldn't have done it.

 

So why would this make it better or more understandable for OP?

 

If the OM is what she always wanted, and it looks like it, it's even more a reason for OP to divorce her.

 

Frankly, I don't see anything to salvage here, her way of thinkin is just sick, even if you believe every word she says (and I wouldn't) there is nothing that makes it better or that you can lean upon for R.

 

I mean: what happens the next time she starts thinking that maybe her ex has changed? Will she let him make her pregnant again to see if he'll "step up", maybe "three times is a charm"...

 

You're an obvious plan B and there is no denying that, you might decide to sacrifice yourself for your kids but she has ways and means to make even more damage and what she explained of her thinking clearly show that she's not someone you can trust.

Edited January 18, 2017 by italianjob

[Popsicle]

Welcome to the world of the betrayed spouse who stays anyway.

[italianjob]

What young man would want his teenage girlfriend to get pregnant? Teenage boys or young men in their early twenties normally consider fathering children their worst nightmare. Do you have any reason to believe the first pregnancy was his idea? Do you have any reason to believe your wife if she told you her ex pressured her to become pregnant at the age of 14? Most likely the first pregnancy was nobody's idea. Just two teenagers being dumb and not thinking about the consequences of having unprotected sex.

 

Why would a young boy want his girl to be pregnant? Why would he want her to become pregnant again when she is married? Why would he do all these things and then stay in the background?

 

Possible answers

1.he gets off with making a mess of other people lives. Your wife first, your wife and you the second time (he said he would pull out but he didn't says your wife, partly contradicting herself). This would portray him as a weird sicko, but makes your wife someone who is in love with the sicko and quite stupid too, because she fell twice for the same trick.

 

2. your wife tried to "trap" him with the first pregnancy(or maybe it was a teenage error, but she hoped he would have married her), and tried again with the second pregnancy when she tought she had a chance to "land" him again.

 

 

It seems to me that your wife is a weak-minded woman without the moral fiber and mental fortitude necessary to resist her worst impulses, and that her ex is an amoral bastard, which explains your wife's mysteriously strong and long-lasting bond with the scumbag.

 

I absolutely agree with this^

Edited January 18, 2017 by italianjob

[road]

This WW has been hooking up for years with her alpha man. To say they only had ex twice on the same day all these years is unbelievable. No man goes to visit a child he does not want to be a dad to once or twice a year unless he can use that time to get sex from his ex.

 

 

This WW new what she did was wrong. This is why she had those letters all set to go incase her BH woke up to the truth one day. For years she rehearsed he D day performance.

 

 

Do not let this act cloud your vision. Go to a lawyer, file for divorce, have your name removed from the birth certificate.

 

 

She told you she still wants the OM. WW's actions speak loud and clear who she wants. WW let the OM knock her up 2 times, and has been having sex with the OM for all the years you have been married to her.

[BluesPower]

This WW has been hooking up for years with her alpha man. To say they only had ex twice on the same day all these years is unbelievable. No man goes to visit a child he does not want to be a dad to once or twice a year unless he can use that time to get sex from his ex.

 

This WW new what she did was wrong. This is why she had those letters all set to go incase her BH woke up to the truth one day. For years she rehearsed he D day performance.

 

Do not let this act cloud your vision. Go to a lawyer, file for divorce, have your name removed from the birth certificate.

 

She told you she still wants the OM. WW's actions speak loud and clear who she wants. WW let the OM knock her up 2 times, and has been having sex with the OM for all the years you have been married to her.

 

Road is totally correct. This performance was rehearsed in her mind for years and years. And yes this scum bag would never have come back to see the child if he did not get his jollies by cuckolding you and getting free sex from his ex that always loved him.

 

No way the performance was true, it is her way to save her butt in the 11th hour.

[sandylee1]

Hi Vic,

 

Two facts jump out at me that stand in contrast to her story. I think they destroy the narrative she has produced.

 

First: the many phone calls sometimes twice a day you informed us of early on. Why the long phone calls? I can only conclude she missed him and wanted to be with him.

 

I agree with this.

 

Again you are just a FWB, a placeholder.

 

Second: your wife's oldest daughter knows your daughter is her sister.

 

Exactly what I thought.

 

Your wife stated she thought your daughter was not yours, the OM thought the same but the oldest sister knew different, how?

 

This is a lie. She and the Ex knew it was his child. Your wife planned it this way, to try and have a second chance with him.

 

It makes more sense that the first time she committed adultery occurred as she stated but everything else she has told you is a lie .

 

.

 

Maybe not everything else is a lie, but there are definitely some lies in there.

 

Her words afterwards, effectively say she loves him, but he's not good for her. The crux of this is that he doesn't want to be a dad or have a committed relationship.

 

As such, your wife meets his desire for a casual sexual or emotional relationship.

 

She had no choice, but to stay with you, as even after the pregnancy, he made it clear he wasn't going to be a dad again

[doyathinkso]

I think you would be well advised to run DNA tests on the boys as well.

Don't shrug that off because of 'looks'. Looks can be deceiving.

[Bufo]

I finally read this entire thread. You have done very well emotionally. Far better than would have n similar circumstances.

 

I don't know where you live so I can't offer specific advice. However you have a legal concern. If you stay with WW and support her and the kids, it is likely that at some point the law will hold you responsible for support regardless of actual paternity.

 

You should see a lawyer who can inform you of the paternity/support laws whee you live. Failing to act is a mistake that you may wish to avoid.

 

Not that I am advocating for divorce. But that is certainly a possibility here.whether you file or she does. I cannot predict the future.

 

And there is an issue that I think remains unexplored. What rights if any do the adoptive parents have to alter this open adoption? They may rapidly tire of the (potential) drama over visitation with older daughter. Can your WW ask a court to alter the visitation? You cannot calmly accept a continuation of the current visitation arrangement given what has happened and her continued feelings for her Ex.

[sandylee1]

I finally read this entire thread. You have done very well emotionally. Far better than would have n similar circumstances.

 

I don't know where you live so I can't offer specific advice. However you have a legal concern. If you stay with WW and support her and the kids, it is likely that at some point the law will hold you responsible for support regardless of actual paternity.

 

You should see a lawyer who can inform you of the paternity/support laws whee you live. Failing to act is a mistake that you may wish to avoid.

 

Not that I am advocating for divorce. But that is certainly a possibility here.whether you file or she does. I cannot predict the future.

 

And there is an issue that I think remains unexplored. What rights if any do the adoptive parents have to alter this open adoption? They may rapidly tire of the (potential) drama over visitation with older daughter. Can your WW ask a court to alter the visitation? You cannot calmly accept a continuation of the current visitation arrangement given what has happened and her continued feelings for her Ex.

 

You must have missed the posts where the OP sees her as his daughter no matter what and she's the only father she's ever known. Loosing her was his utmost concern in all this mess. So I doubt he's concerned about financial support.

 

The older daughter is soon off to university and I expect visitation will be arranged directly with her by either parent, so your other point won't be an issue.