Starting to feel desperate and can't understand why?

[NEG]

Hey guys, figured I would check this site out in hopes for some answers or advice. I'm a single, employed, 28 year old guy living in New England. I'm tall and been told by many that I am attractive. Unfortunately, I have a very small friend group in which most are either married, have kids, or never want to leave their house - So having people to go out with is quite literally not an option. With that said, I've turned to online dating, which is proving to be extremely unsuccessful. 9 out of 10 messages that I send get blatantly ignored regardless of how well thought and genuine they are, and most of the time the girls don't even view my profile. I feel like most of them are careless and are on the sites strictly for attention and entertainment. It also doesn't help that the guy to girl ratio is probably way off on those things. In the rare cases where I do get somebody's number and go on a date, it's almost always a person who I'm not attracted to and have no chemistry with. Not to sound shallow, but I feel like the only girls I'm able to reel in are bottom of the barrel.

 

 

My best friend recently moved to another state in the Midwest and when I talk to him about this, he tells me it's my location that's killing my chances. Seems like he's going out with a new girl every night with no issues out there, yet when he lived in New England he was just about as unsuccessful as I am. I'm beginning to wonder if it's my demographic. I have a lot to offer as a person and I'm a real stand up guy. I know that I'm better than this and deserve better, and I feel like I'm wasting away.

 

 

Any advice or feedback on this?

 

 

Thanks

[Homer J]

I would agree it's your location. I moved to the midwest and if I send out 5 "Hi you have a nice smile" type of opening I will have at least 2-3 that respond. Most don't get to a date, but there have been a few that I did go out with.

 

The girls that don't respond is here too. You just ignore them when their picture pops up and move along. I wouldn't go on dates just to go out though, unless both of you are in the same mindset. She thinks you are special enough to go out with, if after you meet it doesn't feel right so be it. But if you go out, you should at least want to for sure.

[Dis]

Oh wow, maybe this is why I'm not having any luck either

 

I'm from New England too

 

I've never lived anwhere else so I dont have any other location to compare it to

 

I dont have a big social circle either. My friends are like yours, either married or they just want to sit at home. Plus I'm in nursing school so thats a huge social life killer

 

I've heard people in New England are considered unfriendly by people who live elsewhere. I can see why they feel that way. Guys never...ever...say hi to me. I'm really attractive...I get mobbed on online dating sites but in real life...crickets. I wish men wouldnt be so intimidated and just say hi

 

I understand your frustration with online dating too. Its really hard for guys. I dont envy your position. I know guys have to do a lot of the work and dont see a lot of results

 

My suggestion is be paitent. Keep sending out messages. Pls dont be afraid to say hi to a girl when your out and about. Whats the worst that can happen? Online dating takes a lottttt of time so dont expect it to happen over night. I was on those sites for a year and a half, off and on, and now I'm giving up. Ran out of steam

 

If you feel you're still motivated then keep at it. But like the above poster said, dont go on dates with girls if your not sure your attracted to them. Thats just a waste of time for you and them. Be paitent, it'll happen (I know, I hate it when people say that to me too )

[Popsicle]

Unfortunately, I have a very small friend group in which most are either married, have kids, or never want to leave their house -

 

yes it's your location.

[NEG]

Oh wow, maybe this is why I'm not having any luck either

 

I'm from New England too

 

I've never lived anwhere else so I dont have any other location to compare it to

 

I dont have a big social circle either. My friends are like yours, either married or they just want to sit at home. Plus I'm in nursing school so thats a huge social life killer

 

I've heard people in New England are considered unfriendly by people who live elsewhere. I can see why they feel that way. Guys never...ever...say hi to me. I'm really attractive...I get mobbed on online dating sites but in real life...crickets. I wish men wouldnt be so intimidated and just say hi

 

I understand your frustration with online dating too. Its really hard for guys. I dont envy your position. I know guys have to do a lot of the work and dont see a lot of results

 

My suggestion is be paitent. Keep sending out messages. Pls dont be afraid to say hi to a girl when your out and about. Whats the worst that can happen? Online dating takes a lottttt of time so dont expect it to happen over night. I was on those sites for a year and a half, off and on, and now I'm giving up. Ran out of steam

 

If you feel you're still motivated then keep at it. But like the above poster said, dont go on dates with girls if your not sure your attracted to them. Thats just a waste of time for you and them. Be paitent, it'll happen (I know, I hate it when people say that to me too )

 

It's interesting to hear a female's perspective on the matter. If you don't mind me asking, you said you get mobbed on the dating sites but then you also mentioned that your giving up. Why is that? If your getting mobbed, wouldn't that mean that you have a great selection and that there's a ton of opportunity for you?

[winny]

It's interesting to hear a female's perspective on the matter. If you don't mind me asking, you said you get mobbed on the dating sites but then you also mentioned that your giving up. Why is that? If your getting mobbed, wouldn't that mean that you have a great selection and that there's a ton of opportunity for you?

 

Ha ha ha ha ha... the million dollar question....!!!

[winny]

@OP - See this:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/609007-date-friday-3.html

[preraph]

People are more open and friendly in the midwest and south than on the East Coast for some reason.

[Mysterio]

Just join recreational activites. Learn a musical instrument and join a band. Do something where there is a mixed crowd. Not just male dominated. I think that way. You have more diversity.

 

From what I have seen in my life. When it comes it will come in spades. So be ready.

[normal person]

Hey guys, figured I would check this site out in hopes for some answers or advice. I'm a single, employed, 28 year old guy living in New England.

 

Where in New England? There's a giant difference between living in Boston and living in a microscopic town in Vermont.

 

I'm tall and been told by many that I am attractive.

 

People saying you're attractive is meaningless. Everyone has been told they're attractive, be it genuine or a white lie. In my estimation, people who then put that much stock into it, remember that distinctly, and actually then say "I've been told I'm attractive," and wear it like a feather in their cap usually aren't as great as they think they are. People who are attractive know they are, they have the results to accompany the concept.

 

Simply put, if you're actually attractive, you attract people. If you don't, you aren't. It's nothing personal, that's just the definition of the word and you'd be better suited dealing with the realities of the world rather than one shaped by things people say which could have all kinds of biases and degrees of untruth. I'm sure you're a great guy but in the simplest definition of the word, if someone doesn't attract, the person isn't "attractive." Of course there's circumstantial things to consider below...

 

With that said, I've turned to online dating, which is proving to be extremely unsuccessful. 9 out of 10 messages that I send get blatantly ignored regardless of how well thought and genuine they are, and most of the time the girls don't even view my profile.

 

(This is what I mean).

 

My best friend recently moved to another state in the Midwest and when I talk to him about this, he tells me it's my location that's killing my chances. Seems like he's going out with a new girl every night with no issues out there, yet when he lived in New England he was just about as unsuccessful as I am. I'm beginning to wonder if it's my demographic. I have a lot to offer as a person and I'm a real stand up guy. I know that I'm better than this and deserve better, and I feel like I'm wasting away.

 

I've lived in New England and had no trouble with women. I went to a big university and it was easier there. I live in New York City now and can say unequivocally that dating here is infinitely easier than that. Is success due in large part to demographics? Yes. Channing Tatum is not going to have any real luck dating if he lives on a ranch in rural Wyoming because there are basically no women that he'd ever cross paths with. Let alone any worth his time.

 

If you want success, you need to give yourself the best chance at success. No matter how good your "bait" is or isn't, your odds of catching a fish increase exponentially when you cast off in a lake or ocean rather than in a puddle. In large, densely populated cities, you can't walk a block without encountering a beautiful women. If you're in an area with a smaller and less dense population, you don't cross paths with nearly as many women anywhere near as often. It's basic math.

 

I would also consider the fact that if the only things you can say about yourself is that you're tall and "attractive," you're just like basically everyone else. If that's all you're going on, you don't stand out in a crowd and that's a pretty big component of online dating. If you want to be successful in online dating, you need to differentiate yourself from the mass of guys who think simply having a profile and writing generic banalities about themselves (the same crap everyone else writes) somehow entitles them to attention.

 

Then again, don't think OLD is necessarily the best option. Unless you live in a large, densely populated area, are good at spotlighting and differentiating yourself, and you get enough messages that you don't have to send any yourself, OLD is probably not for you based on a combination of factors, both circumstantial and otherwise.

 

If you want better luck, you'll need to improve your circumstances first and foremost. If you live in a small town, you're already at a severe disadvantage. If you moved somewhere more conducive to chance interactions, you'd probably have a much, much better outcome. I would try that first, and then definitely make it a point to differentiate yourself from the horde of faceless, interchangeable dudes out there. If you can do that and avoid any major pitfalls, everything else should fall into place without too much difficulty.

 

Best of luck.

[NEG]

@ normal person - I think you bring some valid points to the table and I appreciate the words, however a lot of the things you said seem to revolve around physical interactions with women. I live in the city about an hour from Boston, so there is a modest selection of women around here...not to mention my radius on the websites cover most of New England. I'm very shy in person so I've never really attempted to talk to girls out in public over the fear that they will consider me a creep or deny me. I have approached girls a few times in bars and that almost always fails miserably. They will either talk for 3 minutes and then disappear or simply give me the hand to get away from them. This happens to my friends too in the rare cases that I do get out with them.

 

 

Now I can agree that the word "attraction" is a very broad term and that it can be meaningless coming from others, but I know for a fact that I'm not "ugly". Even with my low success rate I can say that.

 

 

You also mentioned differentiating myself from the other guys out there, although I'm not sure how this can be done. At the end of the day we are all technically one in the same with arms, legs, and a penis. The most that can be done here is describe ourselves via our profile or try to take some really awesome pics. Other than that I'm not sure what else can be done.

 

 

I've also gotten advice from guys that tell me to write up interesting messages or to make girls laugh...but when you are writing to a person you know nothing about, it's extremely difficult to write an "interesting" or funny message to them. Hell, even in physical interactions most of the time it starts with a "Hey, hows it going?".

 

 

It sounds like you have no issues reeling in the babes... What's your approach with women? I assume most of your interactions are in person rather than online?

[normal person]

@ normal person - I think you bring some valid points to the table and I appreciate the words, however a lot of the things you said seem to revolve around physical interactions with women. I live in the city about an hour from Boston, so there is a modest selection of women around here...not to mention my radius on the websites cover most of New England.

 

But "an hour from Boston" is not Boston. Better than nothing, yes. Still not as conducive to success as it could be. If you live in a densely populated area, your results improve on both fronts -- both online and in person. Your exposure to both goes up exponentially, there are more eyes on you and more chances for you to succeed. I don't know where you live now, but it doesn't sound like you have enough exposure to do you much good. How many viable women do you interact with -- online or in person -- daily? How many more do you think you'd interact with if you lived somewhere with 5x the amount of people? Probably about 5x. And it's fine if your search radius is wide but your success is dependent on someone else's search radius. Meaning, it doesn't matter if you're willing to date someone in Portland if they're not willing to date someone from wherever you are.

 

 

I'm very shy in person so I've never really attempted to talk to girls out in public over the fear that they will consider me a creep or deny me.

 

This is likely the biggest source of your problems. Being shy will be your worst enemy in all of this. Shyness is basically a fear of other people and social situations. It should be no surprise for you to hear at this age that women like (love) confidence. Shyness is the opposite of confidence. Shyness is broadcasting a subconscious message to everyone that says "I'm a grown man who's afraid of you." It's something you need to get over as soon as you can. If you can't, it's going to be a long, long, road. The good news is that it's all in your head and can be dealt with easily.

 

I have approached girls a few times in bars and that almost always fails miserably. They will either talk for 3 minutes and then disappear or simply give me the hand to get away from them.

 

Why do you think this happens? What are these interactions like?

 

Now I can agree that the word "attraction" is a very broad term and that it can be meaningless coming from others, but I know for a fact that I'm not "ugly". Even with my low success rate I can say that.

 

Fair enough, but even if you're incredibly good looking, if you're "shy," it's all irrelevant. No woman is going to want to be with any man who's afraid of them.

 

You also mentioned differentiating myself from the other guys out there, although I'm not sure how this can be done. At the end of the day we are all technically one in the same with arms, legs, and a penis. The most that can be done here is describe ourselves via our profile or try to take some really awesome pics. Other than that I'm not sure what else can be done.

 

In terms of OLD, yes, you differentiate in any way you can. Profile, pictures, captions, etc. I'm not saying it's easy, but the niche is there to be exploited by anyone clever enough to crack it. The most common messages I get are about how funny my profile/captions are. The best advice I can get is to think about what you like and don't like about profiles you see, think about why you like/don't like those things, and extract the same principles for use in your own.

 

As for someone in person, it's not necessarily as important to differentiate yourself as it is to form an emotional connection with someone and to make them feel something about you.

 

 

I've also gotten advice from guys that tell me to write up interesting messages or to make girls laugh...but when you are writing to a person you know nothing about, it's extremely difficult to write an "interesting" or funny message to them. Hell, even in physical interactions most of the time it starts with a "Hey, hows it going?".

 

Being funny is great, but personally I don't message women first. They seem pretty keen to give advice, how successful have those guys been with this, out of curiosity? In my opinion, if you have to message someone, you're probably doing it wrong.

 

It sounds like you have no issues reeling in the babes... What's your approach with women? I assume most of your interactions are in person rather than online?

 

 

 

I give myself the best odds of success. I used every talent I have to engineer a profile based on trends I noticed in others, things I liked, and things I didn't like, and crafted every sentence meticulously. I purposely live in the most densely populated area of the most densely populated city in the country. Even if I have the best profile of all time, it won't do me any good in the middle of nowhere where no one can see it. I pay attention to peak traffic hours on the websites and use those to boost or promote my profile when I know the exposure will be the highest. Then I sift through the messages and see who I want to go out with.

 

When I'm out on the weekends, I apply some of the same principles. I go to somewhat crowded bars in high foot traffic areas. More people = more exposure = more chances of success. If you want to catch fish, go where the fish are. I dress appropriately but very nicely. With a nice jacket or shirt you give people a reason to compliment you. So once you're there, all you really have to do is wait for someone you like to talk to you or give you a signal. Once you know she's interested, then you're pretty much golden.

 

Think about this. Let's say you had an issue with your taxes and you needed an accountant. Would you ask the first person you saw on the street if they're an accountant? No, probably not, that'd be strange. Sure, they might be an accountant, but probably not, you have no real reason to assume she's accountant. So upon realizing that, you'd probably go where the accountants are, like H&R Block, look for someone at a desk with a green visor or whatever, and pick from the accountants there. Keeping that analogy in mind, would you assume any woman in the bar wants to sit and talk to you, even if she's given you no indication of such? No, probably not. Maybe that's why you're having such bad luck. You're assuming that merely talking to someone should yield you some desired result, just like in the analogy you assumed the first person you saw was an accountant despite the lack of evidence. Realize that no matter what you do, most women won't like you. In fact I read somewhere that at most, only 40% of women could agree on what men where attractive, where as 90%+ of men could agree on women.

 

The theme of all these scenarios is, rather than randomly try and talk to women who you blindly assume want to talk to you for some reason, present yourself in the best, most visible light and then pick from those who you know are interested and you'll have a 100% success rate. I don't message/approach women because it's contrived, surrenders status/leverage, and is probably a waste of time considering she's given you no reason to think she's interested in you. Rather than assume the role of a blind pursuer and put your fate in her hands, all you have to do is tastefully present yourself to the world and then pick from the women who see you and consider you the desirable one that they pursue. This is good on another front because when you ask someone for their time and attention, you're basically admitting to them that no one else (that you like, at least) is giving you those things, and that's a bad way to present yourself. When you have other people asking you for your time and attention, you can basically put everything on autopilot -- you just play it cool there as women basically try to prove their worth to you, rather than how you've been doing it -- the other way around.

 

Best of luck.

[NEG]

@ normal person - In regards to your questions, I'll start by saying that 100% of my interactions with women (especially lately) have been online. Going out alone is something I quite simply refuse to do because at that point, it just doesn't look right and will make me lose all confidence knowing that I didn't have any friends to accompany me. Trust me - When the weekend rolls in, there is nothing more I would love to do than to hit the bars and have a good time but this is something I've given up hope for because I just never have anyone to go with. To be honest with you, the fact that I'm not having any actual, real life interactions is probably HALF of the problem.

 

 

I am amazed that you don't send out any messages first. I 100% agree with you about losing status/leverage by doing this, but in my experiences, women 95% of the time will NOT message me first. I've noticed that women tend to abide by their traditional gender role (AKA making the guy chase them down). In my experiences, they seem to feel incredibly entitled and for lack of better terms, special. In a woman's eyes, she is ALWAYS the prize. This philosophy and way of society that I see around me has forced me to believe that I HAVE to approach a woman first otherwise I will never GET a woman. And by that, I am also referring to sending out the first message through online dating.

 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to write me on here because I've already thought about a few things. One thing that caught my interest was your mention about the profiles being created carefully and meticulously. When I think of it, my profiles are pretty basic and include only a few sentences. Another problem is that I only have selfie pics (again this is because I'm never out with friends to take real pictures in a social setting). It's clear that I have a lot working against me in my current life state and that's why I'm trying as best I can to work around it through the online dating.

 

 

I am highly considering moving to the Midwest where my best friend is, for the sheer fact that I will have somebody to go out with. I think this alone will seriously increase my chances. He's located in a major city as well.

[normal person]

@ normal person - In regards to your questions, I'll start by saying that 100% of my interactions with women (especially lately) have been online.

 

Online dating isn't a magic bullet. It's just a virtual bar people are always in. If you struggle in real life, you'll probably struggle in OLD too. Sure, there are different nuances to each, but for the most part the basic principles still apply.

 

I am amazed that you don't send out any messages first. I 100% agree with you about losing status/leverage by doing this, but in my experiences, women 95% of the time will NOT message me first. I've noticed that women tend to abide by their traditional gender role (AKA making the guy chase them down). In my experiences, they seem to feel incredibly entitled and for lack of better terms, special. In a woman's eyes, she is ALWAYS the prize. This philosophy and way of society that I see around me has forced me to believe that I HAVE to approach a woman first otherwise I will never GET a woman. And by that, I am also referring to sending out the first message through online dating.

 

Some women might never message you first. A lot will. A lot more will if you have a great profile and a lot of invitations and reasons for them to desire you. A lot more than that will if you live somewhere where there are more women as all these factors will start to compound each other -- that's the key. You're not going to meet any women online (and likely in real life) where there aren't many women. The odds are incredibly stacked against you. My guess is that if you took all that into account and lived somewhere more advantageous, you wouldn't have these problems to the extent that you're having them. Much like you're friend who moved.

 

 

I am highly considering moving to the Midwest where my best friend is, for the sheer fact that I will have somebody to go out with. I think this alone will seriously increase my chances. He's located in a major city as well.

 

Admittedly, that's a big move, but if it's that important to you, go for it. Best of luck.

[shoplocal]

I live in New England, too! Yay fellow local (though I actually live right in the city).

 

Having read this very interesting thread, probably your shyness is your biggest problem, and your lack of success making you a little bitter. The latter is understandable, and would probably disappear when you start having success.

 

But the shyness is something you're going to have to get over. Just like women who want dates have to lose weight to attract men, men who want dates have to approach interested- and interesting-looking women to get the ball rolling. Sorry :-/ and good luck - whether you stay outside the city or move to the midwest.

[spiderowl]

You may very well be attractive and if people have volunteered this to you, rather than said it when you asked them, it is more likely to be the case. But that aside, attraction is also more about personality and compatibility and looks are not everything.

 

Re online dating, maybe the girls you are sending out messages to are the most physically attractive ones. They will have lots of options and probably 90% of the guys on the site are messaging those same girls. Some of them may also be fakes; this could account for why they are not even looking at your profile.

 

You are getting some dates so this is a good sign. The fact that you are not attracted to the women you are getting dates with shows that there is no point dating them in the first place. Maybe you are overly concerned with how people look and cannot look beyond that to see the person underneath. Physical attraction can grow if you really like the person and enjoy spending time with them, it may not happen instantly. But you feel you are not getting the kind of dates you want, so only date women you feel some attraction too.

 

It could be that location is a problem. It is also very likely that your shyness is getting in the way. A friend of mine has a fairly successful strategy (conscious or not). He hangs out in cafes where women go and he reads a book that is of a kind that would appeal to men or women, e.g. The Alchemist. If he is sitting near a woman, she might show an interest in the book and then they get talking. He will also ask women what they are reading. It is a good 'in' to chatting and it shows they have a shared interest from the start.

[NEG]

Thanks for all the words guys, really appreciate it and glad you enjoyed the thread. You're probably right about the shyness getting the best of me. Even when I go to the gym I see beautiful girls there that I'd love to talk to but then again I think to myself that it's not the appropriate setting or that they will reject me. This is something I definitely have to work on, just not sure how.