No_Go Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 When my ex and I finally broke up, I asked him did he love me - his answer was: 'I loved you but not enough to continue the relationship' He was a marriage-oriented guy, but we had a big barrier between us: he wanted a Christian wife, and I am not a believer. He never *explicitly* told me that that was the reason he treated me so poorly (lived with me but was looking on dating sites) but other people did. He was talking engagement (*talking* is easy) but i think when it got real close, he got scared and pulled away... I think OP's guy is similar... For whatever reason he doesn't want to marry her. Hes clearly marriage-minded because he has been engaged before but he'd not marry her because something is not as he envisions a marriage partner. The real reason is that he doesn't love you enough to want to marry you. He may love you, but he's not feeling that on the inside. I've been there - I know what that feels like. The woman ticks off all the boxes except one. She's great, and I'm happy and I'm not looking for anybody or anything else - including marriage. Then one day, I meet somebody and it's bye-bye to my great girl and hello marriage material! You're the practice wife. Get out now and be ready for him to appear to give in to you when you leave. Don't fall for it. Oh, and by the way, I'd laugh with scorn and disdain for you if you suggested "couples counseling" to me. The first and only thing those counselors should say when you walk in the door is "if you need counseling before you're married, then my sage counsel is to break up now, before your lives become even more entangled and separating gets really complicated." Then a counselor will have earned his money. Everything else is quackery. You're 29 and counting. Time's a-wastin'! Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 First the disclaimer part: Every person and every situation is different, and every couple is different, and I have heard of couples who were together X-ridiculous-amount-of-years and THEN got married and it's all good and, kumbayah. Now the actual opinion part: I'd be gonner than gone. It isn't going to happen for you guys, at least not within any time frame that would be remotely acceptable to you. What if he's "ready" 20 years from now? IF marriage is important to you (and it is to many, many people, so that's totally fine) you probably want to make the break and start looking for a guy who's not so "meh" about that piece of paper. Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Stillafool: He isn't in love that's why. The real reason is that he doesn't love you enough to want to marry you. Really? Come on. Way to undermine the confidence of the OP. I never intended to marry, the institution of marriage did not resonate with me, I wanted to buck tradition. That did NOT stand in my way of being deeply in love and did not speak to the "quantity" of my love for my partner. There was no love "enough" to make me put aside my opinions on the validity of the tradition of marriage. If partners I had during that period needed a relationship to move towards marriage, they would have been right to leave me because it was not going to happen. Fortunately, we were likeminded on the subject. The OP and her partner are not, and that's where the problem lies.Well, first of all, I'd offer that you love your principled position more than you love any woman you've met so far. So, in that respect, you don't love "her" enough to marry her. But, if you feel that's just semantics, I'll be happy to point out the obvious difference between a conscientious objector and this guy: he completely goes crazy and shuts the conversation down whenever I bring it up.... he said "when the time is right, I do want to marry you, I have been thinking about it"That, my friend, is avoidance. This is not a person who has explained his deep-seated obligation to marriage as an institution. I think if he had done that, she'd be here with a different question, should I change my position, or should I go? Nope. This guy is not you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 When my ex and I finally broke up, I asked him did he love me - his answer was: 'I loved you but not enough to continue the relationship' He was a marriage-oriented guy, but we had a big barrier between us: he wanted a Christian wife, and I am not a believer. He never *explicitly* told me that that was the reason he treated me so poorly (lived with me but was looking on dating sites) but other people did. He was talking engagement (*talking* is easy) but i think when it got real close, he got scared and pulled away... I think OP's guy is similar... For whatever reason he doesn't want to marry her. Hes clearly marriage-minded because he has been engaged before but he'd not marry her because something is not as he envisions a marriage partner. He was living with you WHILE looking on dating sites...? This was the Christian thing to do? I shouldn't put it that way or be sarcastic but I find that unbelievably hypocritical even given the knowledge that there must have been a lot more to the story and I realize you two must have loved one another. But...it still makes me mad on your behalf. And sad. I am sorry. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 A man knows who he wants to marry and doesn't waste time putting a ring on your finger. He is comfortable, and not that into you. He may love you but he is not IN LOVE with you. When a man is in love he has no doubts......he doesn't want to let you get away. 4 years......it's time to go. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Stillafool: Really? Come on. Way to undermine the confidence of the OP. I never intended to marry, the institution of marriage did not resonate with me, I wanted to buck tradition. That did NOT stand in my way of being deeply in love and did not speak to the "quantity" of my love for my partner. There was no love "enough" to make me put aside my opinions on the validity of the tradition of marriage. If partners I had during that period needed a relationship to move towards marriage, they would have been right to leave me because it was not going to happen. Fortunately, we were likeminded on the subject. The OP and her partner are not, and that's where the problem lies. Apples to oranges.....we are talking about people in general, of course there will be other like yourself that will not cave into tradition...I'm one of those too, but I'm not going to jump on my soapbox because I feel threatened that someone has an opinion, that one like myself can't love someone deeply enough or marriage has to be proof of it. Edited January 17, 2017 by smackie9 Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) That is a spurious statistic and you didn't even present it correctly (no, 70% of women do NOT initiate divorces). If you Google "70% women initiate divorce" you'll will come up with sites that cite that number. If not that number, then you'll see articles on how a ton of women are the ones that do the initiating. Edited January 17, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Since when people marry nowadays? I have not been to a wedding in.....32 years!! It's not synonym of anything nowadays. It does not mean he will be committed to you, doesn't mean he won't cheat. It means nothing. People marry and un-marry every darn day! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 he completely goes crazy and shuts the conversation down whenever I bring it up. This is the heart of your problem. Why would you want to marry a man that shuts you down when facing life decisions? Whether he wants to marry or not is not the issue here, the issue is his refusal to have an honest conversation and to explain to you in details why he is not ready to marry now, or maybe not marry ever. He is keeping you in the dark and that is unacceptable....on any type of issues you may have together, not just this marriage thing. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Fugu Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I have been dating a guy for almost 4 years, living together with pets for 3.5 years. I am 29 he is 37. Now I cant stop fixating on the idea of him proposing and getting engaged, he completely goes crazy and shuts the conversation down whenever I bring it up. We had a sensible conversation eventually in which he said "when the time is right, I do want to marry you, I have been thinking about it". What does that even mean. I recently had an ex reach out to me (who is now engaged) he told me he thought I was "the one that got away" and he would break it all off for me. Obviously I told him to GET LOST but it was nice to truly feel wanted for a second... I know that i Love my partner & want to be with them. Never have I ever felt with anyone else that marriage and kids would be good, but I do here. However I also know that its not right that if I want marriage and they cant even give me a straight answer I need to stop wasting my time. What are your thoughts, should I plan to leave? When? Should I try to establish if there is to be a future. Why would a man not want to get married? Im interested in your thoughts. Notes: This guy has been engaged before so he is capable of doing so, I dont go on about big weddings - i dont want one, money is no object both of us have businesses and are well off, his family are all married with kids, Let's break it down. For you, now is the right time. For him, it is apparently not. I guess the question is, when will it be the right time? What is he waiting for? Why does he think things will be better in the future? "I just want to be ready." Okay, but why aren't you 'ready' after 4 years? Why aren't you ready at 37? I think he just doesn't want to be committed to marriage. That doesn't mean that he wants to break up, but he doesn't want the permanence of that commitment. I can understand some hesitation at first -- my wife was probably ready about 6 months before I was. In fact I remember having a conversation around Christmas of the year before we married. I said something like "If we get married" -- "What do you mean IF?!" she replied. But actually that tense moment was good because we talked about it. I think it forced me to think in very basic and binary terms: either you want this or you don't. I guess I just hadn't been confronted with it before then. However, in your case, I see something different. I see that you've brought up the issue before, and yet he keeps delaying. That's not really a good sign, to be honest. Even if he says "yes," it could be just because he feels mentally pressured into doing so. Your guy has to want this, just like we have to want all of the major decisions we make in life. Link to post Share on other sites
Fugu Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 When my ex and I finally broke up, I asked him did he love me - his answer was: 'I loved you but not enough to continue the relationship' He was a marriage-oriented guy, but we had a big barrier between us: he wanted a Christian wife, and I am not a believer. He never *explicitly* told me that that was the reason he treated me so poorly (lived with me but was looking on dating sites) but other people did. He was talking engagement (*talking* is easy) but i think when it got real close, he got scared and pulled away... I think OP's guy is similar... For whatever reason he doesn't want to marry her. Hes clearly marriage-minded because he has been engaged before but he'd not marry her because something is not as he envisions a marriage partner. Being engaged doesn't make you marriage minded. Anyone can get engaged -- it just takes enough money for a deposit for a wedding, and these days you just need to send some money to an officiant and say "Yeah, like, I'm planning to get married." Only if you're trying to actually make a marriage happen can you say that you're marriage minded. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Since when people marry nowadays? I have not been to a wedding in.....32 years!! It's not synonym of anything nowadays. It does not mean he will be committed to you, doesn't mean he won't cheat. It means nothing. People marry and un-marry every darn day! People are still marrying. The number has been going down, but I believe it's still somewhere close to 50% of the adult U.S. population being married at any given time. And no, marriage does not come with guarantees; you're right about that. Marriage still has legal implications (particularly children and property) and although there are legal measures for those in the case of non-married couples, it is still clearer and easier, overall, with the piece of paper to uphold the various ins-and-outs of each of these; that's most likely why there will always be people marrying to one degree or another, IMO - far more so than for emotional security (due to the reasons you have cited here). Link to post Share on other sites
Author ClaraCAKES Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Let's break it down. For you, now is the right time. For him, it is apparently not. I guess the question is, when will it be the right time? What is he waiting for? Why does he think things will be better in the future? "I just want to be ready." Okay, but why aren't you 'ready' after 4 years? Why aren't you ready at 37? I think he just doesn't want to be committed to marriage. That doesn't mean that he wants to break up, but he doesn't want the permanence of that commitment. I can understand some hesitation at first -- my wife was probably ready about 6 months before I was. In fact I remember having a conversation around Christmas of the year before we married. I said something like "If we get married" -- "What do you mean IF?!" she replied. But actually that tense moment was good because we talked about it. I think it forced me to think in very basic and binary terms: either you want this or you don't. I guess I just hadn't been confronted with it before then. However, in your case, I see something different. I see that you've brought up the issue before, and yet he keeps delaying. That's not really a good sign, to be honest. Even if he says "yes," it could be just because he feels mentally pressured into doing so. Your guy has to want this, just like we have to want all of the major decisions we make in life. I can't really get to the bottom of why it's not the right time for him...maybe he wants to be the decider. We have looked at buying an additional property for holidays at a lake or beach for the past few months and also booked holidays with his parents for 10 months away (we have been with them before too) . So it's not exactly the actions of someone who is wanting to break up either. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) That is a spurious statistic and you didn't even present it correctly (no, 70% of women do NOT initiate divorces). In any case, it's meaningless to the OP's situation. There are millions of men who do want to get married, and who do so. If he's a 37 year old man malleable enough to be swayed by an Internet movement, she's better off not marrying him. Regardless, if married life and children are important to the OP, she needs a partner with the same goals and priorities. No 50% of marriage end in divorce and 80% are brought on by women. This is numbers from the government and cdc. It is known that as a man gets older he is less likely to get married. He is almost 40. I think him not marrying you is a good thing. Your have no sense of loyality and walking out will prove this... What other future decisions will you wager the relationship on.. This is why marriages fail... because the love of one of two are based on conditions You say you want him to get married...is everything in the relationship great? After you get married will the relationship get better? Does he currently support you? Edited January 17, 2017 by Sweetfish Link to post Share on other sites
winny Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 we can talk and discuss as much as we want but OP needs to have this talk with her BF. if after 4 years he cannot commit to a marriage then she needs to know why. and the answer to that why will help her decide. so OP, please ask him why cannot he marry at this point and why is he not ready yet. You have to ask why 5 times to get to the root cause. i wouldn't give up and walk away from a relationship so easy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ClaraCAKES Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 No 50% of marriage end in divorce and 80% are brought on by women. This is numbers from the government and cdc. It is known that as a man gets older he is less likely to get married. He is almost 40. I think him not marrying you is a good thing. Your have no sense of loyality and walking out will prove this... What other future decisions will you wager the relationship on.. This is why marriages fail... because the love of one of two are based on conditions You say you want him to get married...is everything in the relationship great? After you get married will the relationship get better? Does he currently support you? I'm self employed and so is he. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The real reason is that he doesn't love you enough to want to marry you. He may love you, but he's not feeling that on the inside. I've been there - I know what that feels like. The woman ticks off all the boxes except one. She's great, and I'm happy and I'm not looking for anybody or anything else - including marriage. Then one day, I meet somebody and it's bye-bye to my great girl and hello marriage material!! Yes, that is why I guess some guys come out of longer relationships like this and quickly marry the next gf. Suddenly it is all marriage, kids and happy families... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 No 50% of marriage end in divorce and 80% are brought on by women. This is numbers from the government and cdc. It is known that as a man gets older he is less likely to get married. He is almost 40. I think him not marrying you is a good thing. Your have no sense of loyality and walking out will prove this... What other future decisions will you wager the relationship on.. This is why marriages fail... because the love of one of two are based on conditions You say you want him to get married...is everything in the relationship great? After you get married will the relationship get better? Does he currently support you?The reason women initiate divorce more is because of resentment. They can live with the problems, but they can't live with their husbands not at least making some attempt to mitigate them. If OP really wants marriage, and she settles for staying without marriage, then she'll resent him for it, and statistics say that she'll eventually "divorce" him, which will be a lot easier given that they won't be married. Why wait to reach the inevitable conclusion. Giving everybody the benefit of the doubt, nobody's right or wrong here. He and OP just want different things. More likely though, he's just stringing OP along for as long as it lasts. He's keeping his options open. What he probably doesn't realize is that when he hits 40, his options are going to dwindle substantially for the next 15 years or so. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 we can talk and discuss as much as we want but OP needs to have this talk with her BF. if after 4 years he cannot commit to a marriage then she needs to know why. and the answer to that why will help her decide. so OP, please ask him why cannot he marry at this point and why is he not ready yet. You have to ask why 5 times to get to the root cause. i wouldn't give up and walk away from a relationship so easy. I think she said she has tried to talk about it, but he electively shuts down. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Women Initiate Divorce Much More Than Men, Here's Why How to explain? I find that these data are consistent with what I and others have seen clinically. When men and women seek couples therapy and then subsequently divorce; or, when either partner seeks individual therapy about a marriage conflict that ends in divorce, it’s often the woman who expresses more overt conflict and dissatisfaction about the state of the marriage. On the other hand, the man is more likely to report feeling troubled by his wife’s dissatisfaction, but pretty much “OK” with the way things are; he's content to just lope along as time passes. Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) OP find a guy that is passionate about getting married as much as you are. Edited January 17, 2017 by smackie9 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetfish Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Women Initiate Divorce Much More Than Men, Here's Why Granted, you have to take information online with a grain of salt. This is exactly what ive seen in women in general... mostly western women. They change constantly. One minute they want a relationship 18-25, the next they want to be free 23-27. Soon they want kids and a family 27-45, and the next stage they are not happy in the marriage and want a divorce 35-55. Recent studies by universities are researching women over all happiness as a collective when getting older is dropping since the 1950's.. while men over time are progressively getting happier since the 1950's Hmmm. I wonder why? Maybe the goals keep changing and they never reach the carrot. Men generally do not progessively changing in their lives and are content. This is generalization So now the OP wants to get married. What does it change? Is this your test of love? Is your man not loyal to you? Is he cheating. You have not given us a REAL reason to leave this relationship... while many women and men are struggling to find a decent relationship you want to bail a perfectly sound relationship and im sorry... marriage is not a GOOD reason to leave. Cheating, abuse, not wanting a child.. good reasons... but a document that says the state is now sleeping in your bed. No its not... so go ahead and walk away from a perfectly fine relationship and see how awesome find another match is. Maybe, maybe if you give him a logical reason to get married.. like medical or taxes or see if he was really burned in his last marriage .. i don't think a logical smart man who is self employed is willing to put 50% of his coins and what ever else he owns... on a women who is already willing to leave someone she "loves" over a doucment that will not change the dynamics of the relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (clapping Feminist hat on top of head) Ahem. Wives (v. husbands) STILL do the big, big majority of the dirty hands-on exhausting thankless scutwork of marriage, including childcare and housework even WHILE having outside-the-home jobs... ...yet some here are still wondering why men go "Yeah, I can live with this" and women are all "Get me the hell out of here"? #MyserySolved (Feminist hat off, I'll take it out of the closet next time I need it) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I know someone that has been holding off on marriage for over 10 years....he cavened in on having a baby and buying a house instead....they are still not married and I doubt he ever will propose. I remember when he told me about them going to have a kid....tears were welling up in his eyes....and they were not tears of joy. Better cut him loose. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I know someone that has been holding off on marriage for over 10 years....he cavened in on having a baby and buying a house instead....they are still not married and I doubt he ever will propose. I remember when he told me about them going to have a kid....tears were welling up in his eyes....and they were not tears of joy. Better cut him loose. I have a friend who finally talked her live-in mate of 10 years to get married. She was convinced, I think, that once they were married he'd be more caring, less distant, more invested in the relationship, speak to her lovingly and so on...like you envision a marriage to be. I think she also expected to feel more secure and all that since he wouldn't marry her unless he REALLY loved her, right? (This is not a stupid woman, BTW. In fact, she's very bright, and very educated.) Nope. I don't know why he decided to say yes to getting married, but they got married...and he kept acting distant and careless and college-frat-guy-ish (though responsible financially and for the house and so on), and they even had a child but he still talked to her like some coarse college dude and has really never "turned into" a loving husband. Go figure... It's sad...the last I heard from her (it's been a while now) she kept talking about how she was happy...but the pain in her eyes was just...ugh. Link to post Share on other sites
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