Should I Prepare to Leave - He Hasn't Proposed

[Gaeta]

He is withholding sex because you are "going on" about marriage?! Not only is he commitment-phobic, he's also got serious a bit of a sadistic streak. He'll do almost anything to shut you down and keep you quiet.

 

You need to leave this man. Even if you leverage him into proposing, you'd be fettered to a man who would rather manipulate you than communicate honestly. This is a very poor sign for your ultimate happiness.

 

I'm sorry.

 

He is just tired of being hammered on the head about this. Nag any man, about anything, you'll see how it slows everything in the bedroom.

[BettyDraper]

OP, what it all comes down to is how you're going to handle your boyfriend's refusal/reluctance to marry.

The bottom line is if marriage is important to you, staying with him would be a poor choice because you're just going to resent him.

 

Don't let anyone shame you for wanting marriage. Marriage is the ultimate commitment between a couple and there are legal, financial and social benefits that you just don't receive as a common law partner.

 

Love between two adults is not "unconditional" unless both of them are stupid. If my husband started cheating on me, then I would leave because I don't love him "unconditionally" enough to be disrespected in that manner. If I refused to do anything except watch tv, my husband would not tolerate that because why should he stay with someone who does not want to contribute to the household?

Edited January 18, 2017 by BettyDraper

[GunslingerRoland]

What is marriage going to give you that you don't already have? There is no magic to marriage. You wake up the next morning with the same bills, the same job, the same flaws and qualities and NO you don't feel more secure and you don't feel more loved. If you don't have that already marriage will NOT give it to you.

 

This.

 

I mean it almost sounds like are going to put off enjoying your life until you are married, I don't really understand the need to do that. I understand that you want the marriage and the children, but if you want to enjoy a few more carefree years, why do you need to be married for that?

[GunslingerRoland]

Love between two adults is not "unconditional" unless both of them are stupid. If my husband started cheating on me, then I would leave because I don't love him "unconditionally" enough to be disrespected in that manner. If I refused to do anything except watch tv, my husband would not tolerate that because why should he stay with someone who does not want to contribute to the household?

 

If you want unconditional love, buy a puppy. I guarantee you will never get unconditional love from a spouse, child, parent or any other human. But a dog will give that to you.

[ClaraCAKES]

This.

 

I mean it almost sounds like are going to put off enjoying your life until you are married, I don't really understand the need to do that. I understand that you want the marriage and the children, but if you want to enjoy a few more carefree years, why do you need to be married for that?

 

I don't need to be married for that but I want to know that's where is going for sure. And I can't be sure.

 

any ideas as to how I can get an answer to "it's not the right time" "all in good time" without him getting angry? I brought it up at the weekend so probably need to wait a while before another chat...

 

Sometimes I think he gets the impression I just want to get married to be married because he often says "why are you in a rush".

 

However I agree he has everything right now apart from the "piece of paper" that goes with marriage. But if we didn't live together I doubt we would see each other much as we both work loads and we probably wouldn't have our 3 puppies.

[Gaeta]

Don't let anyone shame you for wanting marriage. Marriage is the ultimate commitment between a couple and there are legal, financial and social benefits that you just don't receive as a common law partner.

 

This needs to be put into context. OP is from the same country as me. We have laws that protect 100% children of common-law couples after 2 years living together, see my previous post.

 

OP and her boyfriend are both businesses owners. They both have their success and money. She is not putting herself at risk in a common-law relationship.

 

A woman like her, who's smart enough and entrepreneur enough to live off of her own business at 27 should not feel so insecure and should be independent enough and emotionally independent enough to not beg for a marriage.

[Gaeta]

any ideas as to how I can get an answer to "it's not the right time" "all in good time" without him getting angry? I brought it up at the weekend so probably need to wait a while before another chat...

 

Sometimes I think he gets the impression I just want to get married to be married because he often says "why are you in a rush".

 

You need to stop talking about it. You've brought this up often enough. You won't get anything new out of him. If you continue this will blow up and possibly break the relationship.

 

When you don't agree with something in life you have 2 choices.

 

* You remove yourself from the situation - break up

 

* You change your perception of the situation - you accept he does not want a marriage.

 

There is no in-between.

[NuevoYorko]

It is very rare the average stable man will put conditions on his girlfriend or wife. A typical man will spare his life for his women

... except if she gets really fat or stops wanting to have sex with him, right?

 

Kidding, but seriously. In this case, if he'd die for his woman, I don't see why it's such a problem for him to take her down to city hall tomorrow and make her dreams come true.

[elaine567]

In my head if he is willing to commit to someone previously he can do it now. I wander what is stopping him...I can't be blamed for the past.

 

The fact he got engaged before means nothing, plenty people get married and NEVER want to repeat the process. Do not try to use his previous engagement as proof he wants to do that again, he may not.

It was hardly by all accounts a pleasurable experience, was it?

 

However I agree he has everything right now apart from the "piece of paper" that goes with marriage. But if we didn't live together I doubt we would see each other much as we both work loads and we probably wouldn't have our 3 puppies.

 

And that is why you are on a hiding to nothing.

He doesn't need to get married here. He has everything he wants atm with no risk to himself.

YOU, as a woman who wants marriage, fell into the trap of living together with no firm plan as regards a wedding. YOU as a couple did not decide to live together for 6-12 months and then get married - a time frame, a plan and a conclusion.

NO, you leapt into an open ended living arrangement with no firm commitment. YOU fooled yourself into thinking this was a step towards marriage when marriage was never discussed seriously at all.

YOU then get pets and you see them as surrogate children,

We must be a serious couple we have a dog/cat/fluffy bunny together... So not only do you feel you can not leave as you are attached to this man, you also cannot leave as it would probably mean losing your pets...

 

YOU wait 4 years for the proposal, you bring it up, he is appalled, he shuts you down as that was not on his agenda at all, you continue to push and bring it up, he eventually throws you a bone for you to gnaw at, to get you off his case.

 

If you are not prepared to leave, then I guess living together it is...

[sandylee1]

 

any ideas as to how I can get an answer to "it's not the right time" "all in good time" without him getting angry? I brought it up at the weekend so probably need to wait a while before another chat...

 

 

 

Seriously?

 

I'm perplexed as to why you don't get it. He doesn't want to marry you and he doesn't want to tell you why.

 

Do you want to torture the answer out of him or what.

 

Remember those boyfriends that you wouldn't have married ? That's the way he feels about you.

 

Let me tell you a true story. A woman in a kind of similar position to you...except they had a child . ... went on and on and eventually he proposed.

 

Set the wedding day, invitations went out and he came back from work one day and said he was withdrawing the proposal. ...he never wanted to

get married. ...he felt pressured by her and was happy as they were.

 

She was devastated. ...ashamed and had to tell

their daughter she wasn't going to be a flower girl anymore.

 

She just couldn't carry on, because if he could do that to her, it showed he never really loved her.

 

Keep pushing him and you'll regret it.

[ElizabethIII]

He is just tired of being hammered on the head about this. Nag any man, about anything, you'll see how it slows everything in the bedroom.

 

Having a man pressurise me about something non stop would kill any desire I had for him.

 

He wont marry her. He wont even bang her as he is sick of her nagging.

 

What will it take for her to give this up.

[kendahke]

The bit I can't understand is why do it before with someone and not with me, when I asked him this he said I was an angel compared so I don't know.

 

You are a bright young woman. This isn't a hard thing to figure out--painful, yes, but not hard.

 

Human nature isn't that hard to figure out: People do not do anything they don't want to do if they don't have to do it. He's shown you for 3 1/2 years that he doesn't want marriage and a life/future with you. Hanging around him any further is telling him that you're fine--you may cry and wail about it, but your crying and wailing isn't enough for him to be arsed about changing his tack. It's a waste of not only your energy, but your youth, which is now forever gone.

 

Any man who reacts the way he reacts over a simple question about marriage should be dropped off at the mall and you keep going.

[Gaeta]

He's shown you for 3 1/2 years that he doesn't want marriage and a life/future with you.

 

Not wanting to be married does not mean automatically he does not want a future with her. They have properties together (I think I read that) and are planning on purchasing more. You don't buy properties with someone you don't see in your future. He just wants a future without a marriage. About 50% of the population chose that, why is it so hard to believe he falls in that category.

[No_Go]

He just doesn't want to marry HER. We don't know the reason, but coupled with the extremely low frequency of sex ... I think he's checking out of the RL. Dreaming about immigration, buying properties and baby names is that: dreaming. What are the actions that he has taken to show commitment?

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, you've listed his (and your) positive points and the reasons you feel you two should be getting married.

 

But - I'm curious to hear what types of things cause problems between you two. You had mentioned sex is infrequent, for example, which he says is because you nag him about marriage and thus he doesn't feel like it. What else?

 

I ask because perhaps if we get a better sense of the nature of your relationship and its sore spots, we might be able to identify some underlying patterns or problems that could explain why he doesn't want to get married any time soon.

 

This is not to suggest that his reasoning would be right or wrong, but you seem to be scratching your head over what the problem is exactly.

[venusishername]

I am almost 33 years old, and I’m really feeling the clock ticking. You’re 27. Or 29? Either way, consider yourself ahead of the game, if you get out now. You must move out, and end the relationship. If you don’t, this will go on indefinitely. He is complacent and getting the milk for free. Sorry, it’s true.

I was in your position at about 25. I had been living with him for a couple years. He bought me a “promise ring” which was more or less my idea, not his. It wasn’t a diamond. Looking back, I think, “wtf, how high school is that?!” I’m a woman, not a girl. I don’t want a promise ring.

 

First of all, I want to say that living together before engagement and a wedding date is the biggest mistake I made in my twenties. And I strongly advise against living together before engagement (and a wedding date). That is based on my personal experience. I did it TWICE. From 20-27. I cannot get those years back. I will never, ever, do it again.

 

I spent the past 5 years single, one long term relationship in that time frame. I just broke up with him. After 6 months of dating, he asked me, insistently, to move in with him. I said no. I kept saying that I will not live with him, unless we are engaged with a wedding date. Period. So eventually he gave up asking. After over a year of dating exclusively, neither one of us felt confident enough in the relationship to take it to the next level. So it ended. EVEN AFTER he talked about our hypothetical wedding, rings, potential kids, bridesmaids, the future… Talk is cheap. You can talk about it all but if the actions don’t follow it means nothing. I thought since we talked about it so much, he meant it. But it was only at the time. Apparently not beyond pillow talk. My ex (so recent, sometimes I still think of him as my bf)… used to get very frustrated and felt pressured and felt I was demanding when I brought this up too. Bad sign.

 

There was a great post from a man who has been married for 40 years on here or something like that. I absolutely loved it. I am going to have to read that again. It couldn’t be more true. A man does NOT (especially in his late thirties, by the way) need more than 4 years to decide if he wants to marry you. In fact, I have to agree with others that you know if you want to marry someone in a year or so, if not less. And a man who wants to marry you, will do it. He won’t stall. He doesn’t need more time. He’s had a couple years too long. The only reason you should be getting engaged is to start planning a wedding. If you don’t, it WILL drag out for years, possibly. I promise you this.

I know a couple who has been “engaged” for about 10 years. I call BS.

In the future, for me, and I would give this advice to you: do not live with a man before you know you want to marry him, or are engaged, with a wedding date, and if no progression to the next level (marriage) within 2 years of dating… end the relationship. That’s my timeframe, as a still young enough woman. I know that this will get me closer to my goal, rather than moving in with a man who isn’t sure if he wants to marry me, and wasting years wondering if it will ever happen. You need to move out, end the romantic relationship, and tell him that you want marriage and a family, and that 4 years has gone by with no commitment. And that you need to go after what it is you want, and work on yourself now. You have given plenty of time to this relationship. Now that you are fighting, crying, arguing about it, it really is time to separate.

[kendahke]

any ideas as to how I can get an answer to "it's not the right time" "all in good time" without him getting angry? I brought it up at the weekend so probably need to wait a while before another chat...

 

No. Nor would I give you instructions on how to manipulate someone who has been crystal clear with you on his intentions. I'd prefer to help you maintain your grace and dignity.

 

Your answer is as follows: "it's never going to be the right time because he doesn't want to marry you." He's manipulating you by laying out a bread crumb trail so you won't take the sex and maid service away. Doesn't matter what went on with a previous chick--that situation doesn't apply to you. Sounds like for whatever reason, he's thrown you into that heap.

 

Sometimes I think he gets the impression I just want to get married to be married because he often says "why are you in a rush".

 

What is your answer when he says this to you?

 

But if we didn't live together I doubt we would see each other much as we both work loads and we probably wouldn't have our 3 puppies.

 

And this is what you need to focus on. It doesn't take 3 1/2 years to figure out if you want the person you're living with day in and day out to be your lawfully married spouse. He'd have to be some special kind of slow if it's taking him this long to figure it out, especially when you're peppering him on the regular about the obvious.

 

Dignity and grace, my dear. Dignity and grace.

[Sweetfish]

Sweetyfish, you really need to reexamine your concept of the natural order on this planet... either that or cite some authoritative references. Parent-child is the closest form of love we know to unconditional, but even that becomes conditional when the child matures.

 

Romantic love has always been transactional and reciprocal. Both parties give and receive to keep it in balance, and if one quits giving it doesn't take long for it to break down. You've already had close to a dozen people in this thread telling you the same thing... and you continue to stand on that position as if you alone know how it is and everyone else is just ignorant. Sweetyfish, I've got news... they are not ignorant.

 

Not saying anyone is ignorant. I just find it funny that I have to back up my statements..whilst everyone else is self knowledge.

 

[sIZE=2]The collection of brain areas that are active in passionate or romantic love appear to be unique to that particular kind of love, with research showing that maternal and unconditional love involve other areas.[/sIZE]

[sIZE=2]A study at the University of Montreal into unconditional love shows that brain regions not implicated in romantic and maternal love, including BA 13 and BA 32, were activated.[/sIZE]

 

[sIZE=2]"As in the case of romantic love and maternal love, the rewarding nature of unconditional love facilitates the creation of strong emotional links between humans. Such robust emotional bonds may critically contribute to the preservation of the human species,"

[/sIZE]

Beauregard M., Courtemanche J., Paquette V., St-Pierre É. L. (2009). The neural basis of unconditional love. Psychiatry Res. 172, 93–98

 

Functional neuroimaging studies have shown that romantic love and maternal love are mediated by regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain's reward system. Nothing is known yet regarding the neural underpinnings of unconditional love. The main goal of this functional magnetic resonance imaging study was to identify the brain regions supporting this form of love. Participants were scanned during a control condition and an experimental condition. In the control condition, participants were instructed to simply look at a series of pictures depicting individuals with intellectual disabilities. In the experimental condition, participants were instructed to feel unconditional love towards the individuals depicted in a series of similar pictures. Significant loci of activation were found, in the experimental condition compared with the control condition, in the middle insula, superior parietal lobule, right periaqueductal gray, right globus pallidus (medial), right caudate nucleus (dorsal head), left ventral tegmental area and left rostro-dorsal anterior cingulate cortex. These results suggest that unconditional love is mediated by a distinct neural network relative to that mediating other emotions. This network contains cerebral structures known to be involved in romantic love or maternal love. Some of these structures represent key components of the brain's reward system.

The problem is people are confusing romantic love, unconditional love, and maternal love.

 

Women feel maternal love .. yet confusing it with unconditional love..which is different. not knowing the unconditional and maternal love are two types of love.

 

Men do NOT have maternal love and conclude that since women have "unconditional love for the child" I too must have unconditional love because I am a parent.

 

NO... maternal love is between a women and child. If I'm wrong please site your reference.

 

So we can conclude men and women again LOVE differently

 

[sIZE=2]The collection of brain areas that are active in passionate or romantic love appear to be unique to that particular kind of love, with research showing that maternal and unconditional love involve other areas.

 

[/sIZE]

[sIZE=2]Unconditional love shows that brain regions not implicated in romantic and maternal love, including BA 13 and BA 32, were activated.[/sIZE]

[ClaraCAKES]

OP, you've listed his (and your) positive points and the reasons you feel you two should be getting married.

 

But - I'm curious to hear what types of things cause problems between you two. You had mentioned sex is infrequent, for example, which he says is because you nag him about marriage and thus he doesn't feel like it. What else?

 

I ask because perhaps if we get a better sense of the nature of your relationship and its sore spots, we might be able to identify some underlying patterns or problems that could explain why he doesn't want to get married any time soon.

 

This is not to suggest that his reasoning would be right or wrong, but you seem to be scratching your head over what the problem is exactly.

 

Not having sex isn't causing us a problem we don't argue about it. I don't know how to fix that.

 

Generally we don't argue about anything other than the future. So that is why I'm a bit miffed.

[VeveCakes]

Not having sex isn't causing us a problem we don't argue about it. I don't know how to fix that.

 

Generally we don't argue about anything other than the future. So that is why I'm a bit miffed.

 

May not be a problem, but a lot of men don't want to marry someone who is only sleeping with them once a month or every two months.

[stillafool]

May not be a problem, but a lot of men don't want to marry someone who is only sleeping with them once a month or every two months.

 

Maybe sex is the reason he won't marry you. Does he enjoy it with you? Having sex once every 2 months doesn't seem like a passionate relationship.

 

Why did the engagement end with him and his ex?

[VeveCakes]

Maybe sex is the reason he won't marry you. Does he enjoy it with you? Having sex once every 2 months doesn't seem like a passionate relationship.

 

Why did the engagement end with him and his ex?

 

She posted a bit back, she forced him into it, and then he paid her off with a car etc to get rid of her because she was "cray cray".

[Redhead14]

Not having sex isn't causing us a problem we don't argue about it. I don't know how to fix that.

 

Generally we don't argue about anything other than the future. So that is why I'm a bit miffed.

 

Not having sex is a symptom of a bigger issue. It's not the sex that needs to be fixed! There is something about the relationship that is causing him not to see it beyond what it is now.

Generally we don't argue about anything . . . -- That likely means that you do not communicate at all . . . couples who say they never argue or don't argue much are the couples who just plain aren't talking to each other at all in any significant way. They aren't arguing, but they aren't having any quality conversations either. If you were communicating effectively, you'd have more of a heads up about why he doesn't want to marry you.

 

But, I seriously doubt that you don't have a clue . . . in all this time there has to have been somethings that he's said he's not happy or satisfied with in the relationship. And, if that's the case, my prior paragraph certainly applies.

[ClaraCAKES]

Not having sex is a symptom of a bigger issue. It's not the sex that needs to be fixed! There is something about the relationship that is causing him not to see it beyond what it is now.

Generally we don't argue about anything . . . -- That likely means that you do not communicate at all . . . couples who say they never argue or don't argue much are the couples who just plain aren't talking to each other at all in any significant way. They aren't arguing, but they aren't having any quality conversations either. If you were communicating effectively, you'd have more of a heads up about why he doesn't want to marry you.

 

But, I seriously doubt that you don't have a clue . . . in all this time there has to have been somethings that he's said he's not happy or satisfied with in the relationship. And, if that's the case, my prior paragraph certainly applies.

 

Actually we talk about everything...I know where he is 99% of the day so I know it's not an affair. We also contact each other throughout the day, eat together etc etc

 

Sometimes I think we are too similar. Neither of us drink often, go out to bars, clubs whatever.

 

We may bicker about the odd thing like; I want to watch the kardashians and he wants to watch a game but that's normal......

 

he told me he wanted to get married on a tropical island and I agreed but that is as much positive marriage speak I have had.

[Redhead14]

Actually we talk about everything...I know where he is 99% of the day so I know it's not an affair. We also contact each other throughout the day, eat together etc etc

 

Sometimes I think we are too similar. Neither of us drink often, go out to bars, clubs whatever.

 

We may bicker about the odd thing like; I want to watch the kardashians and he wants to watch a game but that's normal......

 

he told me he wanted to get married on a tropical island and I agreed but that is as much positive marriage speak I have had.

 

You're missing the point . . . The things you mentioned above are completely superficial and unsubstantial aspects of a relationship. There isn't much depth or emotional intimacy which leads to a decline in sexual intimacy. Personally, I'm venturing to guess that the two of you are operating on "auto-pilot". Going through the motions and not connected in a meaningful way. I think you have been stringing yourself along for a very long, long time because it's easier than looking for someone else.