how do men feel about women who don't raise their kids?

[fire575]

In general, their family is their business. However, looking at the totality of your description, and being relationship-focused, I'd likely pass. Guys who are more short-term and in the moment, I could see traction for it being a non-issue, since they would not be interacting at any level of depth for any length of time.

 

Her physical attractiveness and skills give her options. Men are easily replaced. Transitory. That works for her. I've run into a few like her in life, though not many. In retrospect I felt like a bus stop. They sit on the bench for a bit till the bus comes along and off they go. The bench is a convenience. What it is isn't really important. It serves a function.

 

Big world, lots of people in it. Your friend has plenty of company and I've seen plenty of the other side, men who are the same way. People do what they do.

 

Just want to say thanks for being real, humanely objective, and insightful.. and also for NOT being insanely critical and judgmental!

[PrettyEmily77]

Hey, fair enough.. but by your comment, you're immediately judging ME for doing so.. so don't be so quick put on a hollier than thou attitude. I don't know if you've read through all the comments, but I put the question out there to try to understand her situation with men as I had a hunch it might have something to do with leaving her kid.. but I honestly don't have the heart to tell her that because I don't want to hurt her feelings or offend her. I didn't pose the question so that she'd be judged by a bunch of random people.. but as humans, we're very judgmental so I guess I should have known better that she'd be crucified here. And that's not what I was looking for. I was really hoping for an honest outlook on how men would feel about someone like her. And I tried my best to list her good qualities throughout.. She has a lot of good attributes. We all have our struggles, flaws and downsides. But from what I'm hearing from the guys, leaving your kid is not so easily redeemable. And it's basically what I suspected is her underlying problem. I don't think I'm judging her or throwing her under the bus.. I'm honestly just trying to better understand her situation.

 

Yeah, I read all the comments but I guess I'd be more comfortable talking to your friend directly about her own personal circumstances rather than dealing with 2nd hand info and a whole bunch of judgement.

 

On the general issue of mothers not raising their own children, I have no horse in that race but my ex is a single father to 2 boys he's been raising by himself practically single-handed when his wife upped and left with the guy she was cheating on him with, so I know women like your friend exist and I know they create chaos in their trail.

 

I also know that I benefited from my father's input and guidance growing up just as much as my mother's 'nurturing', and the idea that being an absent mother is somehow worse than being an absent father is a little backward, in my opinion.

 

If anything, this may actually be a leveler in that absent fathers will finally be taken to task for abandoning their children a bit more now that women do it too.

Edited January 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Gloria25]

Those men would be narrow minded idiots.

 

I've never had biological kids. Foster kids, yes.

 

But I've now done the whole aging parent thing and aging relative thing where I've had to be caring and nurturing. In the case of one relative, there was no financial reward and we were never that close when I was growing up. It just happened to be a relative who never married and never had children and I was the closest proximity niece/nephew.

 

And trust me, those guys are more than happy to rescue the Damsel In Distress, he kids, and all the drama that's gonna come with it

 

I'm sorry, talk about the OP's gf all day - there's women who keep their kids and/or are married and are the worst. They spend more time/energy in their job/career, feed the kids McD's and allow the schools/daycare/relatives to do their job...but hey what matters is the few hrs she spent with the kid (before/after bedtime), right?

 

Oh, and then the whole elevating women into sainthood because they performed a biological act (get pregnant)

 

Well, again, those guys can have those women and all the drama that comes with them.

 

I'm sorry, but for all the self-absorbed "parents" out there (married, single, divorced, never married) - I don't look at a guy and think "Oh, how lovely he had a kid, so he MUST be a great guy" NOT!!! Cuz, someone performing a biological act (making his sperm hit her egg) doesn't convince me that he's been inducted into sainthood. And, sorry for the guys who on the surface go ga-ga over some woman just cuz she performed a biological act (getting pregnant).

 

Yes, and I'm there too - I may have never had kids, but I care for my Mum and family. You have no idea how much time, money, and care I've done over the years. Yea, it may not be like waking up to a screaming baby (well, yes, for the nights at the hospital with my sis-in-law and the newborn:laugh:), but it shows that I've done my time in the "care" department. So, just cuz someone doesn't pop out a kid doesn't mean they can't achieve sainthood.

[Gloria25]

Yes.. I really feel for her daughter, especially now since she lost her dad. I always wondered why my friend doesn't make more of an effort to be a part of her kid's life. But at the same time I kept a "it's really none of my business" attitude. But then when the kid's dad died a few months ago and now I see my friend going on short out of town trips with other friends and posting pics about it on Facebook, I can't really help but see her in a different light now. She really *should* be with her daughter during this time.. but then again, if she only sees her daughter several times a year I'm not sure she's the best person to nurture her daughter during her grief. And she probably knows that.

 

Well, it gets tricky cuz, why should she be involved if she's not gonna be there full time? I mean, think of it as her daughter getting attached and then "poof" mommy's gone again. If she would maintain regular contact with her child (i.e. calls several times a week, visiting once/twice a month) then, I guess she could achieve a balance where her child has some consistency with mom's involvement - even if it's not full-time; and, when a life event happens (like the death), her coming to be there isn't like foreign to her daughter. And, IMO, the child is best served with grandparents taking care as primaries cuz there's an intact home, and both a full-time father and mother (the grandparents).

 

I mean, I hear the stories of "single" moms who try to do it all on their own and the kids end up neglected and scarred worst - cuz it's only "mom", no daddy figure (like an uncle, grandpa), and/or the mom drags a bunch of guys (that she's dating) in front of the child, parties, etc. The child should be put up for adoption and/or sent to an intact home (i.e. grandparents, their married aunt/uncle).

[mikeylo]

But the fact that mothers provide a specific feminine nurturing makes their role a little more.. dare I say.. "important." And on some level, men and women realize this.

 

Add the fact that IF the mother is nice then she sets the model for the boy child ,the kind of women he will go for and not go for ! Just like how the 'type ' of father affects his daughter's choice of men!

 

In this woman's case, it's better the child doesn't know the mother at all. She will be better off with a role model of some other woman! I hope the grandmother fills the role !

[Gloria25]

You're reading a statement about someone without personally knowing them.. so naturally it's harder on my end to view a friend as objectively as you are. Bottom line is that she's fun, I have a lot in common with her, and I simply enjoy her company.. maybe that's not enough to make her a "good person" but either way, she's still one of my good friends.

 

To answer your questions, yes - the father was raising the daughter. But he actually passed away a few months ago so now her daughter is living with his parents, further complicating things. My friend told me that her daughter has started to kind of shut down from her and has started to question her absence all these years..which I think it only natural.

 

I don't know, I've pondered this about dude. One of my friends told me it's a red flag that he isn't closer to his kid and now after him putting me through all this makes me wonder if he's damaged goods (like my friend thinks)

 

But, I still don't know his whole deal. He actually just one day pulled out his kid's pic and showed me. I tried to see how to go about asking more about all of that - but, with things like this being a sensitive topic and we weren't dating, I wasn't sure how to ask/talk about it to get a feel for him and if like your friend, people are like "oh no wayyy". I was kinda curious if we'd be a match - cuz, I was hoping that he wasn't looking to re-marry and/or have more kids and just wants female "company". I mean, IMO, remarrying and popping out more kids would be cruel to do to his kid - on top of the distance already there; and, I would be more about supporting him being with his child then adding more drama to the situation and/or hurting his child.

 

I don't like when people assume things about me w/o getting to know me (like he did). Over the years, people have told me that I'm a complex person and they're right - I have a lot of things that I believe, do, say, etc. - that confuses people and they may get the wrong impression w/o taking time to dig beneath the surface. So, I prefer to find out more about the person before I make up my mind and hope people would have the same patience with me .

Edited January 20, 2017 by Gloria25

[thefooloftheyear]

And trust me, those guys are more than happy to rescue the Damsel In Distress, he kids, and all the drama that's gonna come with it

 

I'm sorry, talk about the OP's gf all day - there's women who keep their kids and/or are married and are the worst. They spend more time/energy in their job/career, feed the kids McD's and allow the schools/daycare/relatives to do their job...but hey what matters is the few hrs she spent with the kid (before/after bedtime), right?

 

Oh, and then the whole elevating women into sainthood because they performed a biological act (get pregnant)

 

Well, again, those guys can have those women and all the drama that comes with them.

 

I'm sorry, but for all the self-absorbed "parents" out there (married, single, divorced, never married) - I don't look at a guy and think "Oh, how lovely he had a kid, so he MUST be a great guy" NOT!!! Cuz, someone performing a biological act (making his sperm hit her egg) doesn't convince me that he's been inducted into sainthood. And, sorry for the guys who on the surface go ga-ga over some woman just cuz she performed a biological act (getting pregnant).

 

Yes, and I'm there too - I may have never had kids, but I care for my Mum and family. You have no idea how much time, money, and care I've done over the years. Yea, it may not be like waking up to a screaming baby (well, yes, for the nights at the hospital with my sis-in-law and the newborn:laugh:), but it shows that I've done my time in the "care" department. So, just cuz someone doesn't pop out a kid doesn't mean they can't achieve sainthood.

 

Gloria...You are probably one of my favorite female posters....

 

But think about what you are saying.....

 

These guys aren't idiots, fools, or otherwise....They are drawn to women who have had kids, for the reasons I mentioned..If that weren't the case, then why would they want the drama of the angry ex/dad and kids ? Why not pick the woman with the cats and no annoying kids/ex to cramp their style??

 

There is a different dynamic involved...Do I think it's necessarily fair? Well, no...But is it either fair when women discount short guys for taller one's to "feel more protected"....?? I mean , really...what kind of shyt is that??

 

Do I think all women without kids aren't capable of those same character traits of the women that do? No..But then I can say the same for the short guy/tall guy dynamic...

 

There's no sense getting pissed off about it, or denying something that is obvious, because it doesn't suit your situation...Find someone that doesn't give a crap, and live happily ever after...

 

TFY

Edited January 20, 2017 by thefooloftheyear

[Gloria25]

Gloria...You are probably one of my favorite female posters....

 

But think about what you are saying.....

 

These guys aren't idiots, fools, or otherwise....They are drawn to women who have had kids, for the reasons I mentioned..If that weren't the case, then why would they want the drama of the angry ex/dad and kids ? Why not pick the woman with the cats and no annoying kids/ex to cramp their style??

 

There is a different dynamic involved...Do I think it's necessarily fair? Well, no...But is it either fair when women discount short guys for taller one's to "feel more protected"....?? I mean , really...what kind of shyt is that??

 

Do I think all women without kids aren't capable of those same character traits of the women that do? No..But then I can say the same for the short guy/tall guy dynamic...

 

There's no sense getting pissed off about it, or denying something that is obvious, because it doesn't suit your situation...Find someone that doesn't give a crap, and live happily ever after...

 

TFY

 

Ok, TFY, you're one of my favorites too - yet we usually disagree on this topic.

 

I think that anyone who has an attraction/attachment for a woman or man "just because" she/he had a child is ridiculous. I would be focused more on how they raised that kid cuz conceiving and birthing a child is a biological act that even a dog can do..."raising" a child is a whole different animal.

 

Oh and the whole tall/short guy thing? It's not only cuz of a female's instinct for her man to be stronger, smarter than her and a provider/protector - but cuz majority of short guys got "short guy syndrome", where they are insecure losers. I love my men tall and it's cuz I'm tall too and don't want someone I can kick around.

[elaine567]

Considering she's in her mid thirties and dealing with a crowd of men with a whole load of baggage and issues then I guess she may be doing rather well.

The commitmentphobe guys, the rebounding guys, the hurt guys, the "MY wife/gf left me, she was wonderful I'll never find another just like her" guys, the "I'm looking for 23 yo hottie" guys, the "I'm looking for a nanny and housekeeper" guys", the abusive guys, the mentally ill guys, the players, the married guys looking for "extra" etc. etc.

All the odds and ends looking for "love".

 

2x 4year relationships and another LTR pending I guess is probably par for the course, and nothing to do with her daughter whatsoever.

[Whoknew30]

Anyone that truly abandons their kids, will do it to anyone!!!

 

Can't trust ANYONE that has left & or treats a kid like crap. If they can do it to some one they have biological ties with...why would anyone on earth think a person like that would ever show true loyalty & love to them?

 

Common sense!

[Gui]

re: how do men feel about women who don't raise their kids?

 

The way this question is framed of course most of the answer would be no, but then why ask the obvious? Maybe it's true OP is not not speaking from a preachy motherhood POV, but the question sounds like it's coming from someone who just needs validation that her personal judgment of her single friend is correct.

 

A lot of men don't raise their kids. Many live in the same house as their kids and still don't raise their kids. Is anyone asking how women feel about men who don't raise their kids, or is that not a common reason people come up with to explain why a man happens to be single?

[andie1969]

If you reversed the genders on this would it be quite the same issue? I have come across many men who have done similar and it's not considered to be that big a deal. It's not something I could do, but society certainly comes down harder on women who abandon their kids, than the men who do it. I think judging people says more about the judge than the judged.

 

My ex left my daughter and I for a woman he met online, moved 5 hours away to another state and has seen our now 14 year old daughter once in the past year for an hour lunch. Had I done the same? I would have been crucified! Sure some people think he's an ass for what he did but overall it's much more acceptable for him to do something like that than me. Would I ever? Never, not in a million years, unfathomable to me.

[thefooloftheyear]

My ex left my daughter and I for a woman he met online, moved 5 hours away to another state and has seen our now 14 year old daughter once in the past year for an hour lunch. Had I done the same? I would have been crucified! Sure some people think he's an ass for what he did but overall it's much more acceptable for him to do something like that than me. Would I ever? Never, not in a million years, unfathomable to me.

 

I'm sorry for your situation, but....

 

Unless he was deployed to active service duty, or went to work on the North Pole, who on this planet thinks it's acceptable??...., where are these people??

 

TFY

[fire575]

Add the fact that IF the mother is nice then she sets the model for the boy child ,the kind of women he will go for and not go for ! Just like how the 'type ' of father affects his daughter's choice of men!

 

In this woman's case, it's better the child doesn't know the mother at all. She will be better off with a role model of some other woman! I hope the grandmother fills the role !

 

I have to disagree about the child being better off not knowing the mother. Perhaps if my friend had left and NEVER looked back, I'd probably agree. But that's not the reality of the kid's situation. This discussion has kind of morphed into idea that my friend simply "abandoned her kid" or "she left her kid." One can describe it that way on some levels, but truth is that my friend IS and has always been a part of her daughter's life. Just not a daily part of her life that's expected of a mother. In a way, she's more of a "cool aunt" figure to her daughter. Since my friend left her hometown she goes to visit her daughter every few months, makes it back for recitals and school programs, etc. and also talks to her daughter on the phone weekly. I'm not trying to justify that that's enough.. it clearly isn't. And her daughter is now at the age where she's in a lot of turmoil.. not only grieving her dad's death, but wondering why her mom hasn't really been around much. But to say she'd be better if her mom disappeared forever from here on out is not in her best interest, imo. Either way, the kid is screwed... and will have a broken heart her whole life.

[Whoknew30]

I have to disagree about the child being better off not knowing the mother. Perhaps if my friend had left and NEVER looked back, I'd probably agree. But that's not the reality of the kid's situation. This discussion has kind of morphed into idea that my friend simply "abandoned her kid" or "she left her kid." One can describe it that way on some levels, but truth is that my friend IS and has always been a part of her daughter's life. Just not a daily part of her life that's expected of a mother. In a way, she's more of a "cool aunt" figure to her daughter. Since my friend left her hometown she goes to visit her daughter every few months, makes it back for recitals and school programs, etc. and also talks to her daughter on the phone weekly. I'm not trying to justify that that's enough.. it clearly isn't. And her daughter is now at the age where she's in a lot of turmoil.. not only grieving her dad's death, but wondering why her mom hasn't really been around much. But to say she'd be better if her mom disappeared forever from here on out is not in her best interest, imo. Either way, the kid is screwed... and will have a broken heart her whole life.

 

She honestly may have been better off...every single one of my childhood friends growing up had their mom's leave them & my H...the most painful part was their mom's coming in & out of their lives. I was actually with my best friend as little girls the day her mother left her...she & my H have told me that they had been better off if their mom's had just disappeared vs the back & forth....I don't know what that's like personally but I'm just repeating what has come from people in that situation...my H actually is one that finally cut off all contact with his mother bc she started the same behavior with our kids...& he said he refuses to allow her to do that to them. He won't even allow our daughter to be friends with her on Facebook.

[fire575]

re: how do men feel about women who don't raise their kids?

 

The way this question is framed of course most of the answer would be no, but then why ask the obvious? Maybe it's true OP is not not speaking from a preachy motherhood POV, but the question sounds like it's coming from someone who just needs validation that her personal judgment of her single friend is correct.

 

A lot of men don't raise their kids. Many live in the same house as their kids and still don't raise their kids. Is anyone asking how women feel about men who don't raise their kids, or is that not a common reason people come up with to explain why a man happens to be single?

 

I'm not necessarily denying that. But that doesn't mean I'm not genuinely trying to better understand this issue with my friend's interest at heart. My friend is at a place in her life where she's wondering why she can't find Mr. Right. And I'll be honest, I've started wonder if it has to do with the situation surrounding her daughter. Years ago, it didn't really occur to me because I figured she'd reach a place where her daughter would come live with her and she'd settle down and be a mom. But now that I'm approaching 40, obviously I'm more grown up and see things in a different way. I'm married, don't party much anymore and so I see her now and think "whoa you still act like you're 25." Maybe that is judgmental. Fine, I'm guilty of that. I'm only human. Everyone passes judgment on loved one whether you admit it or not. But it doesn't mean I'm not trying to genuinely understand it on some psychological level. It's hard to see a friend struggle with themselves and feel powerless to help them because you know the problem stems from their own life choices.

[mikeylo]

I have to disagree about the child being better off not knowing the mother. Perhaps if my friend had left and NEVER looked back, I'd probably agree. But that's not the reality of the kid's situation. This discussion has kind of morphed into idea that my friend simply "abandoned her kid" or "she left her kid." One can describe it that way on some levels, but truth is that my friend IS and has always been a part of her daughter's life. Just not a daily part of her life that's expected of a mother. In a way, she's more of a "cool aunt" figure to her daughter. Since my friend left her hometown she goes to visit her daughter every few months, makes it back for recitals and school programs, etc. and also talks to her daughter on the phone weekly. I'm not trying to justify that that's enough.. it clearly isn't. And her daughter is now at the age where she's in a lot of turmoil.. not only grieving her dad's death, but wondering why her mom hasn't really been around much. But to say she'd be better if her mom disappeared forever from here on out is not in her best interest, imo. Either way, the kid is screwed... and will have a broken heart her whole life.

 

You may disagree and it's okay but I still insist that the child will be better off without this kind of mother. The in and out thing is screwing up the child even more. No wonder she is messed up.

 

A mother can't be a ' cool aunt '. That's worse. Just like a father can't be an uncle ! Duh

 

The child is going to grow up completely confused and an unstable person with no relationship clarity for herself. Anyway, it's not something you or anyone can decide for the child But , this dynamic is extremely harmful for child's development and mental health.

 

Some may disagree but its a type of abuse to the child.

[fire575]

Maybe it's not that she can't find long term happiness with a man; but maybe she likes her life the way it is. I don't think it's a good idea to judge her.

 

But it's not my assumption that she wants long term happiness with a man. She has said herself to me that this is what she wants and doesn't understand why she hasn't found it yet.

 

I agree- I shouldn't judge. But that's not what this post is about. Are you so perfect that you've never judged anyone in your life? Probably not. So I rest my case...

[seren]

The crux of it all is that we are all adults, thinking of it from the mother's point of view, a child doesn't think that way, not usually. They know what a mother is supposed to stand for, the mother figure is the one person that a child relies on to have their best interests at heart, always. The mother is supposed to walk on fire for the child, who loves them before anything and anyone else. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but to the child, they will blame themselves and not the mother for this.

 

I have seen this time and time again in my professional life and even when the mother is a train wreck, who on paper is the worse thing that could happen for the child, the child will always question why they weren't good enough for the 'mother' to want them.

 

Of course fathers are equally important, but it is the nurturing, protective role of mother that the child looks for and compares with their friends and what they expect of their mother. This woman wants to have her own life and I imagine tells herself her child is better off if she isn't the full time care giver, she herself might have issues, but right now, her child needs her to step up and be the mother, maybe now the child is older she can explain why she stepped away, maybe they can have a better relationship now the child is older and maybe she will be taken to task by her daughter, IDK, I just hope the child has support to help her through all this.

[BluesPower]

Why can't she find a steady man?

 

You know, if she is a hotty at about 40 and she is living like she is 25, that is probably one of the main reasons. Guys that age will be happy to bang her, but with her lifestyle choices as well as her choice to not really be a mother, she is not really marriage material in my mind.

 

And I am trying to think about other men in general, because no woman is marriage material in my mind any more. GF material, possibly, but marriage material no way. But I am just a jaded older guy so you my need to take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

And for men that abandon their children, they deserve as much scorn as a woman that does it. For me, no matter what the circumstances, anyone that does not actively raise their children is just a scum bag.

 

My kids are from 20 to 26 and I am still raising them everyday. I am not sure I should be, but they seem to need me almost as much as when they were younger.

 

I would tell anyone to their face that if you had kids and you did not put the time in to raise them and raise them well, then you are a scum bag.

[MrDuck]

My sons mother isnt in his life... well, shes met him a few times, we email very occasionally.

 

Of course I can't understand her choice, my son is my world! He's frigging awesome!!!! But I was 17, she was 18, we'd recently split up and having a kid wasn't the life she wanted. She wouldnt have continued the pregnancy if i hadn't of wanted him, which I did! My stance is that I will always be grateful to her for taking into account what I wanted and for giving me Bodhi!

 

So I can't understand her decision, and if anything it shows why we were wrong for each other, we were different people, worlds apart!! And as a result if i came across another women who wasn't raising her kid, i would know she wasn't the girl for me!

 

That said, I dunno if my ex is seeing anyone right now, but theres no reason she shouldnt be! Like people have said plenty of women overlook the fact that guys have left there familys! And she's incredibly bubbly, a lot of fun to be around, passionate and im sure she'll make someone a good gf! We were really good friends, just terrible romantic partners haha!

She's not a terrible person or a monster! Last i know she's been living in brazil for years and working expanding an educational outreach program for underprivileged kids. She really loves kids. She just.... loves her own life, and her freedom more I guess!

 

The most important thing to me is my son having a happy home, and knowing he's loved! And he has that with me!! And my current girlfriend is fantastic with him, they have a great bond!! He's not missing out on spending time with someone who doesn't want to be here!! I was raised by a man who didnt want me there and that sucked!

Soooo, I live and let live.. I hope shes happy wherever she is, afterall i certainly am!