'Christian household'

[No_Go]

What does this mean in practical terms?

 

I am asking because I'm still trying to make sense of my ex behavior. The long story short: he's Christian, I was raised Christian (sort of - we were following the holidays etc but not going to church regularly), but I consider myself agnostic. I told him that, told him I can go to church with him, but I can't promise I'll ever become a believer.

 

So... 1.5 years later - I never became a believer although I was going to church with him (for him because I knew it is important for him) and *behind my back* he started scrolling on a dating site... Later (after we broke up) I discussed with him why he was not satisfied in the RL: I'm citing

- 'I definitely want a Christian wife and household'

- 'I'd never have friends if I stay with you' - explaining: he only considered friendship material the people from his church. Even for my friends (not religious) he suggested to invite them to join, otherwise he didn't seem interested in befriending them

- 'You're not interested in marriage' - I was actually, HE was the one suggesting living together and holding off proposal because he wanted to ask permission from my family first (they are overseas and I'm not close to them)... Although he was deeply uncomfortable living together and I've witnessed people from his church commenting on it ... Then he told me he viewed our living together more as a roommate situation than commitment which would have came with engagement?!?

 

I'm wondering was he an d*ck stringing me along or waiting for me to 'convert' before proposing? What is the typical advice Christian men get when dating a non-believer (I know he got 'advice' from his pastor - I wonder did he suggested him dumping me... he'll never tell me the truth for that matters)

 

In general, would a Christian men marry a non-believer if she's openly saying this but nevertheless doing the things important for him (like attending church with him)?

 

The question is mainly because when I start online dating again, maybe I need to weed out religious folks if that's something that is generally a problem (i.e. they won't be serious if the woman is not a believer and/or they'll attempt converting her)

[losangelena]

Oh, NG, your ex sounds like a dick. I could write a dissertation on this topic, and will, when I get my laptop back this weekend. But bottom line, if he knew he wanted a Christian wife, he should not have dated you to begin with, that's awfully unfair to you. Furthermore, I'd say that unless you're planning to convert, avoid Christian men on dating sights, at least ones that are openly practicing, because you'll probably run into similar issues. You don't want to be with a guy with these kinds of hang ups.

[stillafool]

Yes. Just going to church is not the same as believing in your heart. I imagine he will want his children raised Christian and he will want his wife to play a major role in that. I don't think non-believers and believers should marry. You are opening yourself up to a lot of resentment from both sides down the road.

[Satu]

snip

What does this mean in practical terms?

 

 

It means that you and your boyfriend have a critical incompatibility.

 

 

Take care.

[JuneL]

Sounds like this guy is not just a Christian, but a religious fanatic. Wow, don't consider non-Christian people friendship material! Why didn't he just ask his pastor to set him up with another religious fanatic? Does raising his kids in a Christian household include telling them not to engage in pre-marital sex?

Edited January 19, 2017 by JuneL

[losangelena]

Sounds like this guy is not just a Christian, but a religious fanatic. Wow, don't consider non-Christian people friendship material! Why didn't he just ask his pastor to set him up with another religious fanatic? Does raising his kids in a Christian household include telling them not to engage in pre-marital sex?

 

Which he's no doubt participated in with OP?

 

Very hypocritical of him.

[JuneL]

Which he's no doubt participated in with OP?

 

Very hypocritical of him.

 

That's exactly what I was trying to get at. Personally, I have no problem with anyone, religious or otherwise, engaging in pre-marital sex. But if you are some religious fanatic who is aggressively trying to impose your religion on others, you'd better follow what your religion teaches yourself first.

[No_Go]

Yeah the premarital sex with him really was the puzzling part - we made out on date 1 (he initiated), date 4 went all the way (he initiated) and then was intense throughout the RL. And at 8 months HE asked me to move in with him.

 

On the other side: he didn't want to tell people that we live together for over half year and when we were visiting his friends and family - I was never allowed to sleep in the same room with him - because they said we're not married...

 

He was so confusing with his beliefs that I'm not even sure what it was. I just can't forget one thing: he was firmly believing only people at church accept him. I don't know if that's something Christian specific or his own thing (he had some psychological hangups with acceptance / social interactions).

 

Losangelena - look forward to more insights from you whenever the laptop is available:)

[Simple Logic]

Like Eve, you had led him to the forbidden fruit. And yes, it was all your fault.

[Tayla]

I tend to think that a person of faith has a tolerance for varying views. It's the practicing that takes years to master.

 

It's important to not classify "all faith filled" persons as incompatible to relationships. Basically don't let one incident cloud the opportunities when a kind soul crosses your path.

 

I dated a gent who very much made it clear that I would not be welcomed into his faith. I walked with bitterness for him. The reality was... He was dripping in intolerance and secular snobbery. That is a human trait even agnostics and atheist can exhibit. So instead, I find balance in humanity by keeping my faith in check .

[taiko]

Like Eve, you had led him to the forbidden fruit. And yes, it was all your fault.

 

I agree in effect both were missionary dating hoping to draw the other to their side. That the OP was not a Richard Dawkins type but rather a let's just don't fight on that issue makes her little different from most folks of faith, even the evangelizing faiths of Christianity and Islam, who about the same mentality into personal relationships.

[BluesPower]

I don't know what country you live in.

 

But as a former bible believing Christian, I would like for you to understand a couple of things.

 

1) This guy is an actual moron. Absolutely as dumb as a box of rocks. Stay away from him at all cost.

 

2) The "views" that he has about Christianity are as wrong as he is stupid. Real Christianity has nothing to do with the views he expressed or the way that he acted. His version is some type of warped form of the religion that actually has nothing to do with what the bible actually says or how you are supposed to behave as a "Christian".

 

Just be glad that you did not marry him. If you want to know what Christianity is about, read the bible and it will tell you all you need to know.

[kmpisces]

I do not think the guy was being kind. I go to a Christian church and consider myself a Christian in terms of my value system. I believe the teachings of the church: help one another, be kind to everyone,,,etc But I don't take everything in the Bible literally. I may be more agnostic myself.

 

Either way: I would never not marry a guy (Since I am a girl I will use a guy as the example) because he was not Christian. I would not care what religion he was or even if he was religious. We all have our own beliefs and should be allowed to do so. I care if someone is a good decent person and that to me is what really matters.

 

He was being unkind when he said he would not have friends because he only wants friends from his Church. Again, I believe people should have a wide circle of friends (in terms of religion and beliefs). People do not need to believe what you do to be a great person.

[No_Go]

I didn't try to make him lose his faith.

 

The thing that was grinding on me was the social aspect of it: his ideal week was going together to church and hanging out with the folks there on Sunday (ok with me), going to a Bible study one evening each week (I was doing it with him but reluctantly), and then going out with them once again to do something social. For me, abstracting entirely from the religious aspect, it was too much, way too much time spent with the same people in a group every week... I started resenting this whole social dynamics...

 

I agree in effect both were missionary dating hoping to draw the other to their side. That the OP was not a Richard Dawkins type but rather a let's just don't fight on that issue makes her little different from most folks of faith, even the evangelizing faiths of Christianity and Islam, who about the same mentality into personal relationships.

[No_Go]

I live in the US.

 

On 1) - why do you say so? I'm just curious what information makes you conclude that? We're not in contact but I am thinking maybe we can be friends down the line (after we both find new partners, if they are ok with it).

 

I don't know what country you live in.

 

But as a former bible believing Christian, I would like for you to understand a couple of things.

 

1) This guy is an actual moron. Absolutely as dumb as a box of rocks. Stay away from him at all cost.

 

2) The "views" that he has about Christianity are as wrong as he is stupid. Real Christianity has nothing to do with the views he expressed or the way that he acted. His version is some type of warped form of the religion that actually has nothing to do with what the bible actually says or how you are supposed to behave as a "Christian".

 

Just be glad that you did not marry him. If you want to know what Christianity is about, read the bible and it will tell you all you need to know.

[JuneL]

I live in the US.

 

On 1) - why do you say so? I'm just curious what information makes you conclude that? We're not in contact but I am thinking maybe we can be friends down the line (after we both find new partners, if they are ok with it).

 

If your ex-bf is willing to have a friendship only with those from his church, then I don't see how you guys can be friends in the future — I'm assuming you don't attend their church activities much now.

 

From your other posts/threads, you used to express concerns about your ex-bf's financial situation and you had helped him work on his savings and credit score. However, I would find his extreme religious view a much bigger issue.

 

I agree with a couple of previous posters that there are plenty of open-minded Christians who respect the religion (or the lack thereof) of others — especially you were willing to participate in his church activities often. So the point is not to avoid dating Christians or people with religious beliefs, but to avoid those with an extremely narrow mind.

[major_merrick]

What does this mean in practical terms?

 

I am asking because I'm still trying to make sense of my ex behavior. The long story short: he's Christian, I was raised Christian (sort of - we were following the holidays etc but not going to church regularly), but I consider myself agnostic. I told him that, told him I can go to church with him, but I can't promise I'll ever become a believer.

 

So... 1.5 years later - I never became a believer although I was going to church with him (for him because I knew it is important for him) and *behind my back* he started scrolling on a dating site... Later (after we broke up) I discussed with him why he was not satisfied in the RL: I'm citing

- 'I definitely want a Christian wife and household'

- 'I'd never have friends if I stay with you' - explaining: he only considered friendship material the people from his church. Even for my friends (not religious) he suggested to invite them to join, otherwise he didn't seem interested in befriending them

- 'You're not interested in marriage' - I was actually, HE was the one suggesting living together and holding off proposal because he wanted to ask permission from my family first (they are overseas and I'm not close to them)... Although he was deeply uncomfortable living together and I've witnessed people from his church commenting on it ... Then he told me he viewed our living together more as a roommate situation than commitment which would have came with engagement?!?

 

I'm wondering was he an d*ck stringing me along or waiting for me to 'convert' before proposing? What is the typical advice Christian men get when dating a non-believer (I know he got 'advice' from his pastor - I wonder did he suggested him dumping me... he'll never tell me the truth for that matters)

 

In general, would a Christian men marry a non-believer if she's openly saying this but nevertheless doing the things important for him (like attending church with him)?

 

The question is mainly because when I start online dating again, maybe I need to weed out religious folks if that's something that is generally a problem (i.e. they won't be serious if the woman is not a believer and/or they'll attempt converting her)

 

I was raised in a Christian home, but never took to the "church scene." Awkward for a lesbian, anyway. I think your ex is conflicted. It sounds like he enjoys your company, but the religious difference is a hangup. He's sexually attracted to you, but can't get around religious prohibitions and the views of his friends and family. Ultimately it is a choice - he can have one or the other, not both.

 

In general, devout Christians are encouraged to date other Christians. A "mixed" or "unequally yoked" marriage is frowned upon. I think this can be a good thing. In the most important issues, couples (and others) should be united to avoid stress in the relationship. I think you can definitely be friends with him, but a marriage is probably a "No-Go" (pun intended) unless one of you changes. I hope he realizes that having a bit more diversity in his circle of friends can be a good thing. There's certainly nothing in the Bible against having friends outside of church.... remind him that Jesus was criticized for eating dinner with "tax collectors and sinners."

 

On a side note, I tend to find the hypocrisy of the religious sorts irritating. Some people preach against sex, then go out and have sex. Others (my dad) proclaim "traditional family values" and then get drunk, go home and beat their wife and kids. I'm all for people having faith or a relationship with God, but organized religion with all of the rules that go with it sets people up for some tremendous unhappiness.

[No_Go]

Good point - I'm not going to these activities anymore, which may be a deal breaker for potential friendship.

 

I'm not sure how exactly to pull this anyway, I am thinking about it because I miss his company, which I guess is normal after almost 2yrs day in and day out together

 

I brought the religious issues long time ago even on this forum -

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/521101-he-s-religios-i-m-agnostic-deal-breaker

^ This was soon after we met. I just thought it is not a deal breaker because I am *not* opposing Christian views - as said the social aspect bothered me most, and somehow I associated it with my introverted character (I'm not a fan of hanging out in groups at all)... He was never super explicit that it is bothering him.

 

I almost feel like in his case was not a narrow mind but some form of social anxiety (he felt comfortable only in church for some reason)... I'm just afraid the story will repeat if I get associated with another religious man (esp. if it is a religion that I'm not familiar with - Christianity, I thought, was the easiest in sense I more or less know the ropes).

 

If your ex-bf is willing to have a friendship only with those from his church, then I don't see how you guys can be friends in the future — I'm assuming you don't attend their church activities much now.

 

From your other posts/threads, you used to express concerns about your ex-bf's financial situation and you had helped him work on his savings and credit score. However, I would find his extreme religious view a much bigger issue.

 

I agree with a couple of previous posters that there are plenty of open-minded Christians who respect the religion (or the lack thereof) of others — especially you were willing to participate in his church activities often. So the point is not to avoid dating Christians or people with religious beliefs, but to avoid those with an extremely narrow mind.

[No_Go]

I was shocked when he said exactly this:

Ultimately it is a choice - he can have one or the other, not both.

 

Apparently I'm not his choice, which is fine, we had too many differences to work in long term anyway...I think this - I think you can definitely be friends with him, but a marriage is probably a "No-Go" (pun intended) is how it was from the start.

 

My guess is he wanted to explore his sexuality - which he suppressed until his mid30s! - and he had a sky-high libido. I can imagine this is a tug-of-war for religious folks.

 

There's certainly nothing in the Bible against having friends outside of church.... - to make it clear, he mentioned he'll be ok for *me* hanging out with non-religious people, or if we both want to do it, he'll invite them to church. Well, I was not comfortable with it, because most of my friends are scientists and in these communities the majority (not all) of people are hard-core atheists, or at least say so.

 

organized religion with all of the rules that go with it sets people up for some tremendous unhappiness

^ This is what this whole experience convinced me in. I'm not anti-rules at all myself, I play by common-sense though. This is hard to co-exist with organized religion.

 

I was raised in a Christian home, but never took to the "church scene." Awkward for a lesbian, anyway. I think your ex is conflicted. It sounds like he enjoys your company, but the religious difference is a hangup. He's sexually attracted to you, but can't get around religious prohibitions and the views of his friends and family. Ultimately it is a choice - he can have one or the other, not both.

 

In general, devout Christians are encouraged to date other Christians. A "mixed" or "unequally yoked" marriage is frowned upon. I think this can be a good thing. In the most important issues, couples (and others) should be united to avoid stress in the relationship. I think you can definitely be friends with him, but a marriage is probably a "No-Go" (pun intended) unless one of you changes. I hope he realizes that having a bit more diversity in his circle of friends can be a good thing. There's certainly nothing in the Bible against having friends outside of church.... remind him that Jesus was criticized for eating dinner with "tax collectors and sinners."

 

On a side note, I tend to find the hypocrisy of the religious sorts irritating. Some people preach against sex, then go out and have sex. Others (my dad) proclaim "traditional family values" and then get drunk, go home and beat their wife and kids. I'm all for people having faith or a relationship with God, but organized religion with all of the rules that go with it sets people up for some tremendous unhappiness.

[BluesPower]

I say that because the way that he was acting is not appropriate with standard Christianity.

 

That is not the way that it works. I could go on if you really need me too...

[No_Go]

I could go on if you really need me to I'd be curious to see, I'm genuinely puzzled

 

I say that because the way that he was acting is not appropriate with standard Christianity.

 

That is not the way that it works. I could go on if you really need me too...

[JuneL]

 

My guess is he wanted to explore his sexuality - which he suppressed until his mid30s! - and he had a sky-high libido. I can imagine this is a tug-of-war for religious folks.

 

 

So he had been using you because he was one of those guys who couldn't get girls due to his social awkwardness. Do you think his insistence on asking your mother's permission to marry you was a way for him to buy time?

 

Apparently, he had also been using his church for the purpose of having a social life. As you mentioned, he had difficulty forming a friendship with those not from his church due to his social awkwardness; additionally, his actions and views were highly inconsistent with those who truly believed in what his religion taught.

 

This guy sounds worse than a religious fanatic and someone in his late 30s who has no clue how to manage his personal finance — he's an opportunist and a user, not to mention a cheater!

Edited January 23, 2017 by JuneL

[No_Go]

Honestly - I don't know if he wanted to buy time - but I'd think probably not because his own family was pushing for us to get married as well, and would have put ton of pressure of him if he had come to Europe with me and asked my mom for permission to marry me. He himself would admit his family instantly got nicer to him after we met them together... they wanted us to work.

 

But I do think he is using church mainly as a social platform, yes. He's highly analytical and doesn't show any traits of a 'typical' religious fanatic. Actually that's one of the reasons I asked the question here - my gut feeling is that his actions were personal, not actions pushed by Christian faith (although I don't know much about Christianity to say that for sure).

 

His main issue is that he's selfish. I don't know if he actually cheated on me, I would guess he didn't, but he acted very selfishly doing that behind my back instead of expressing his frustration with me. He actually did - but it was post mortem for the relationship.

 

So he had been using you because he was one of those guys who couldn't get girls due to his social awkwardness. Do you think his insistence on asking your mother's permission to marry you was a way for him to buy time?

 

Apparently, he had also been using his church for the purpose of having a social life. As you mentioned, he had difficulty forming a friendship with those not from his church due to his social awkwardness; additionally, his actions and views were highly inconsistent with those who truly believed in what his religion taught.

 

This guy sounds worse than a religious fanatic and someone in his late 30s who has no clue how to manage his personal finance — he's an opportunist and a user, not to mention a cheater!

[JuneL]

Honestly - I don't know if he wanted to buy time - but I'd think probably not because his own family was pushing for us to get married as well, and would have put ton of pressure of him if he had come to Europe with me and asked my mom for permission to marry me. He himself would admit his family instantly got nicer to him after we met them together... they wanted us to work.

 

 

But he knew you were very uncomfortable introducing him to your family (from your previous posts/threads), and it would be a long time before this could happen!

[No_Go]

True! He told me: 'you put your fears in front of me/us'... which hurts me, because I did share why I'm so uncomfortable with family (including past abuse), and he did pretend for quite a while that he's ok with it until he shared it was a major issue for him all along.

 

But he knew you were very uncomfortable introducing him to your family (from your previous posts/threads), and it would be a long time before this could happen!