Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[sandylee1]

JustaGuy, I also wondered what the point in having kids was for her, but she's very career minded. She was a first class b**ch though.

 

OT, your choice to not want children is your choice. I think it's wrong to bring a child into the world when you don't want one. They're hard work as babies, even when you want one, talk less of when you don't.

 

Kids do test a marriage, but I wouldn't be without mine. I'd have been very distressed if I couldn't have kids like your wife, so I understand her pain on that. In her mind, you're can provide a glimmer of hope to her dream and because you aren't rushing down to the fertility clinic for IVF, she's become resentful towards you and possibly interpreted your refusal as a sign that you don't love her enough.

 

And having kids hasnt stopped me doing anything I did before marriage. We go on vacations, we do family vacations, jusr the two of us vacations girls/guy trips.

 

Even with the slimest of possibilities, I understand that she wants to try it and give it a go, but I understand how you're reluctant to plunge a load of cash into something you really don't want and especially now after her affair.

It would be extremely unwise to do so and that's putting it mildly.

 

Your comments upthread about men and sex made me laugh. It's generalised, but I get your point.

 

Some women take a lot more to get in the mood, so a man's 5 minute job, can sometimes come over as though he just wants a quick release and then off he pops.

[Jersey born raised]

Strict catholic upbringing ??

 

Nether you or your wife knows what catholic teaching on marriage and sex within marriage is. Try again.

 

No sex after adultery at the beginning, again beginning, of reconciliation is an approch sometimes suggested to seperate the sexual nature of marriage out from the non-sexual for a period of time to clarify what is right and what needs addressing elsewhere in the marriage. This might be what her IC might be suggesting. Your wife might be using it as an excuse. Speak with IC directly. Also ask her IC if there is a concern your wife gets aroused using her sexuality to harm others.

[Midwestmissy]

Overtaxed was honest with his wife about his desire for no children from the start. People choose to remain childless all the time. There's nothing wrong with it at all. This site is filled with people who cheat on their families then 'stay for the kids'. But those same kids weren't important during the cheating. What they were willing to give up by cheating suddenly becomes important again. That damages kids. Would someone who's single be chastised for not being married? Marriage isn't about reproducing, it's not 1723.

 

Cut this guy some slack. He never wavered or led his wife on. He loves her and is in pain. She's the one with the issues here and whatever they were, she would have better served herself and the marriage by discussing them with overtaxed. She's the ridiculously selfish person here. And I have a pile of kids. Each one was wanted and planned by both of us and I have the privilege of staying home with them. Some people call that financially stupid and non-contributing. Even selfish or lazy. I had all kinds of free time to cheat, and yet it was my wh, the workaholic, who did. I could have done nothing to stop his idiotic choices, or his neglect of the family who depended on him. That was pretty selfish.

 

Once op's wife went outside the marriage, the issue was hers and hers alone. However, one should be able to decide for oneself about reproducing, and his reasons are nobody's business. And the therapist sounds like a complete idiot. I've had my share of those too.

[elaine567]

I guess the psych went with what the wife said about her marriage, about her controlling husband, about the lack of children, about the refusal of the IVF, about her diminishing fertility, about the unfair pre-nup, about the anger the wife was feeling, about the guilt tripping, about the joined-at-the-hip relationship, about the affair., about the fundamental incompatibility*...etc.etc., and decided the best course of action here was to allow the wife to disengage herself from what seems like a toxic and unhealthy marriage.

 

The psych is there to point her client in a direction that is best for her client, not there to necessarily mend a marriage.

If the marriage is perceived as the cause of much of her client's distress then it would be a very poor therapist who would "force" her to stick with it and put up with it.

She cannot TELL her to leave her husband but she can show her there may be another path in life for her if she wants to follow it.

 

By the psych telling her to remove the sex, the psych reduces the "pair bonding", and by telling her to take some space to herself the psych is giving her the chance to put things into perspective and see things clearer and decide what she really wants in life, without her husband potentially "guilt tripping" her into staying.

 

She is 37, she cannot just free wheel for years in a marriage that will not give her ultimately what she wants or, will not even give her a chance of having children, I guess the psych recognised that time is of the essence. The time for change is now.

 

(* all issues the OP has addressed in this thread.)

Edited January 24, 2017 by elaine567

[tinkerbell16]

I could not agree with you more. However, one correction, we have/are trying. Just no extra measure taken to have or prevent a child. But, and this was sadly, probably a horrible mistake; I had myself tested about 2 years ago and was deemed infertile at that time, so she knows that our "trying" is bound to fail because of my problems. Thing is, even with "super sperm", there's almost no chance it will work for her either, she needs IVF; that's the reality of the matter.

 

And, speaking on that, while I agree with you entirely, why the hell do women seem to get a free pass on the "maternal need"?? I've read dozens of articles on this over the past few days, and a lot echo what you say, its instinct, it's deep, it's primordial. All of which; I completely agree with.

 

But you know what else is like that? My desire to sleep with nearly every attractive woman I meet. My lust after a nice looking backside (which is nearly 100% about the ability of that woman to bear children). My desire to have sex often. All deep seated, primordial male characteristics. Our genes want us to have sex all the time, and they want us to do that with many different young/attractive partners as possible. IDK, I'm pissed, and it's showing here, but why on earth is her desire for a child deemed an excuse and my desire to sleep with 1/2 my neighborhood makes me a monster (take that as a it was intended, an exaggeration and a joke)?

 

The really funny thing? The OM already has children and has had a vasectomy. IDK if the wife knows that, but he told me years ago. Classic, right? <sigh>

 

Then please get tested for STD'S. He likely did not wear a condom.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Elaine, does the last paragraph of your post above reflect your own views or are you imputing that the psychiatrist held this view and advised the OP's wife accordingly. If you are in agreement with this view then I think you have ignored what the OP has said previously. He had made it clear to his wife even before they got married that he did not want Kids. She willingly entered marriage with him knowing this fact. She could have bailed if not having kids were a deal breaker for her. She did not bail probably thinking her husband would change his mind. He didn't and she cannot hold it against him for not sharing her views on this.

 

Also, the fact that the psych listened to her one sided story and based her diagnosis just on that seems very unprofessional to me. Psychiatrists are supposed to be completely unbiased as this one should have been. She would have known she was getting a one sided story from the OP's wife all the more because she had cheated on her husband, a fact known to the psychiatrist. As such I would completely discredit and disregard what the psych said. Cheers.

[Southern Sun]

If this is a repeat, forgive me. I had to skip through some of the replies.

 

If her psych/IC is saying to abstain from sex and/or take some sort of vacation alone, it is because she is expressing ambivalence about you and her marriage.

 

The psych/IC is there to support HER self-discovery and growth. She/he is not there to keep the marriage together at all costs. If your wife goes in and says, "My goal is to keep my marriage together," then the IC will work with her to do that. If that is NOT what she says, if she says instead, "I'm confused and don't know what I want," then the IC will simply work with her in that way. Unlike MCs, they do not have a vested interest in the M.

 

So this is no big shocker...that she is being told to abstain or take some time for herself. It's based on what she is saying in therapy.

 

It sounds a bit to me like your wife might feel somewhat oppressed by you. I have no idea if that's fair. But here she started off with her strict religious upbringing, unable to (or afraid to) express sexual desires; she married you and cannot have children; you don't really like for her to do things with her friends (even though you allow it); you try to bring her into your activities (that sounds nice and it is, but couples do need individuation)...everything could just be piling on.

 

I don't know, maybe bring this up with her. The affair could have been just a means of escape, though she might not actually want out of the M. She may just be needing to really talk to you and deal with her issues.

 

I would be careful about forbidding her from seeing this IC. I know BSs freak out about this stuff, but that can feel like yet another form of control to a WS who is sensing the world coming down on them. You can do it if you want, but just talk to her first.

 

Kudos to anyone who can actually have an open, honest, and supportive dialogue. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Overtaxed]

JustaGuy, I also wondered what the point in having kids was for her, but she's very career minded. She was a first class b**ch though.

 

OT, your choice to not want children is your choice. I think it's wrong to bring a child into the world when you don't want one. They're hard work as babies, even when you want one, talk less of when you don't.

 

Kids do test a marriage, but I wouldn't be without mine. I'd have been very distressed if I couldn't have kids like your wife, so I understand her pain on that. In her mind, you're can provide a glimmer of hope to her dream and because you aren't rushing down to the fertility clinic for IVF, she's become resentful towards you and possibly interpreted your refusal as a sign that you don't love her enough.

 

And having kids hasnt stopped me doing anything I did before marriage. We go on vacations, we do family vacations, jusr the two of us vacations girls/guy trips.

 

Even with the slimest of possibilities, I understand that she wants to try it and give it a go, but I understand how you're reluctant to plunge a load of cash into something you really don't want and especially now after her affair.

It would be extremely unwise to do so and that's putting it mildly.

 

Your comments upthread about men and sex made me laugh. It's generalised, but I get your point.

 

Some women take a lot more to get in the mood, so a man's 5 minute job, can sometimes come over as though he just wants a quick release and then off he pops.

 

I totally understand why she's upset, and I do realize they are very important for some (most) people. I've always told her the truth about how I felt, and, even after we married, discussed several times that if this is what she really wants, I wouldn't fight a divorce and would make sure she was fairly treated. It is, however, in my opinion, the root of the anger she feels towards me; she always says that she's want A kid, she wants MY kid. I don't get that (because, despite talking a big game, I don't think I'm all that wonderful) and, because of that, my mind goes to horrible places (you want my kid because the child support payments will be high). Not sugar coating it, telling you exactly how I feel.

 

Our vacations have never been "kid friendly". Last one we were on, we were scaling the side of a glacier (to give you an idea). So, yes, we could continue to vacation, but not like we have.

[Overtaxed]

If this is a repeat, forgive me. I had to skip through some of the replies.

 

If her psych/IC is saying to abstain from sex and/or take some sort of vacation alone, it is because she is expressing ambivalence about you and her marriage.

 

The psych/IC is there to support HER self-discovery and growth. She/he is not there to keep the marriage together at all costs. If your wife goes in and says, "My goal is to keep my marriage together," then the IC will work with her to do that. If that is NOT what she says, if she says instead, "I'm confused and don't know what I want," then the IC will simply work with her in that way. Unlike MCs, they do not have a vested interest in the M.

 

So this is no big shocker...that she is being told to abstain or take some time for herself. It's based on what she is saying in therapy.

 

It sounds a bit to me like your wife might feel somewhat oppressed by you. I have no idea if that's fair. But here she started off with her strict religious upbringing, unable to (or afraid to) express sexual desires; she married you and cannot have children; you don't really like for her to do things with her friends (even though you allow it); you try to bring her into your activities (that sounds nice and it is, but couples do need individuation)...everything could just be piling on.

 

I don't know, maybe bring this up with her. The affair could have been just a means of escape, though she might not actually want out of the M. She may just be needing to really talk to you and deal with her issues.

 

I would be careful about forbidding her from seeing this IC. I know BSs freak out about this stuff, but that can feel like yet another form of control to a WS who is sensing the world coming down on them. You can do it if you want, but just talk to her first.

 

Kudos to anyone who can actually have an open, honest, and supportive dialogue. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

This is an excellent post and very insightful. I think that's exactly it, and, i think if you asked her, she would say I'm controlling (and probably has said this to her psych).

 

As we've been talking more, it does seem like this was a "soft exit" from the M. To "why did you do this" she said "I thought you really wouldn't care". I'm sure this is some minimizing on her part (to justify what she did), but, I also think there's some truth to it as well.

[DKT3]

If this is a repeat, forgive me. I had to skip through some of the replies.

 

If her psych/IC is saying to abstain from sex and/or take some sort of vacation alone, it is because she is expressing ambivalence about you and her marriage.

 

The psych/IC is there to support HER self-discovery and growth. She/he is not there to keep the marriage together at all costs. If your wife goes in and says, "My goal is to keep my marriage together," then the IC will work with her to do that. If that is NOT what she says, if she says instead, "I'm confused and don't know what I want," then the IC will simply work with her in that way. Unlike MCs, they do not have a vested interest in the M.

 

So this is no big shocker...that she is being told to abstain or take some time for herself. It's based on what she is saying in therapy.

 

It sounds a bit to me like your wife might feel somewhat oppressed by you. I have no idea if that's fair. But here she started off with her strict religious upbringing, unable to (or afraid to) express sexual desires; she married you and cannot have children; you don't really like for her to do things with her friends (even though you allow it); you try to bring her into your activities (that sounds nice and it is, but couples do need individuation)...everything could just be piling on.

 

I don't know, maybe bring this up with her. The affair could have been just a means of escape, though she might not actually want out of the M. She may just be needing to really talk to you and deal with her issues.

 

I would be careful about forbidding her from seeing this IC. I know BSs freak out about this stuff, but that can feel like yet another form of control to a WS who is sensing the world coming down on them. You can do it if you want, but just talk to her first.

 

Kudos to anyone who can actually have an open, honest, and supportive dialogue. Wouldn't that be nice?

 

The time for that is before one turns to another. After...Well after in most cases it's too late.

 

The first part I agree with, and said so earlier in the thread

[DKT3]

This is an excellent post and very insightful. I think that's exactly it, and, i think if you asked her, she would say I'm controlling (and probably has said this to her psych).

 

As we've been talking more, it does seem like this was a "soft exit" from the M. To "why did you do this" she said "I thought you really wouldn't care". I'm sure this is some minimizing on her part (to justify what she did), but, I also think there's some truth to it as well.

 

I doubt any WS actually believe that statement, if they did they wouldn't bother hiding lying and misleading.

[AnneP]

Some of this I agree with, some of it I do not. When we met, I wasn't wealthy at all, and was not "Mr. Stability", I was very much a free spirit; she was the last in the line of many women I'd slept with, but I was NOT the kind of person you married for stability (at that time). From day 1, sex was an issue. That's not really fair, it was more of an imbalance, I always wanted it more than she did.

 

The 2nd part I do agree. She has little respect for me (in our own home, come on!) and absolutely resents me because I won't try to give her children (which, to be fair, is my hangup, but there's very little chance of it working given both of our reproductive issues).

 

Let me ask you this, I do seek to reconcile, I realize that may sound like a man with no backbone, but I'm not in any way desperate; I just love her. I could leave tomorrow and be richer than I am today (without another person spending the money). Most people would consider me very attractive, and, sad to say, I think that of myself as well. Women have always been "easy" for me; I have no doubt I could get into another relationship with ease. But I just struggle with "giving up" on her, especially since this is so out of character for her; of course, none of you know her and my eyes are glazed over because of my feelings for her, but, if you asked every one of our mutual friends "who's the most likely to cheat in this room" my wife would have come out at the bottom of the list. So, the question, is reconciliation truly impossible? I'm a sexually liberal person, I'm not really hung up on the "sex with someone else" part, I'm hung up on the horrible breach of trust and intimacy in our relationship. That's the part I think I'll struggle to fix, not putting the physical "stuff" behind me.

 

I'm curious what led to the prenup. Do you mind elaborating? You stated you weren't wealthy or even stable when you met her, which means she was in your life before you had money.

 

My husband and I met when he was still in college working on his undergrad. We struggled as most young couples do, but we were in it together. We both worked and paid the bills. We were together 5 years prior to getting married, but lived as though we were already married. We had bought a house together, shared finances, bank accounts, etc. Before we married, my husband got his MBA and had always made way more money than me. Well, since earning his MBA. We married one year into him working on his MBA. He is also in an executive position now, but wasn't when we met. I guess what I'm wondering is why do you have a prenup if she was in your life prior to you attaining your wealth. Do you think there may be some resentment (even if she's not admitted it) towards you for asking for the prenup.

 

This is just my personal opinion. I'm old fashioned when it comes to certain things and roles in marriage and just don't understand the whole prenup. I would have been offended as hell if my husband asked me to sign one after I supported his dreams and took care of everything in our home from cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping/mowing grass/etc., while also working a full-time job,while he was getting his MBA. Does that make sense?

 

Maybe there is more to the story and you haven't shared, but is there a specific reason you wanted a prenup? I know for me that I wouldn't marry someone who asked me to sign that especially if he wasn't even financially stable when we met.

 

Also, I saw you mentioned that she wants children, but you don't. Obviously now isn't the time to drag another person into your problems, but if you're able to move on and reconcile, do you think you could agree to having a child with her? You mentioned you thought her desire to have children might be a way to (paraphrasing) extract more money out of you. If you really believe that is who your wife is and she just cheated on you as well, what in God's name are you doing continuing to stay married to this woman?

 

How many years have you been together... and how many married? Did you live together prior to marriage? What was the cause of a prenup?

 

I'm not blaming you at all, but just trying to understand what caused this. How did she handle the idea of a prenup? Did it cause problems? For me, I would see it as my husband was going into the marriage already mistrusting me and without trust, what do you really have? What is the point in getting married if you think she's just out for your money. Maybe this has caused insecurity in her and the marriage. I know it certainly would for me, but everyone is different.

Edited January 25, 2017 by AnneP

[oldshirt]

I'm curious what led to the prenup. Do you mind elaborating? You stated you weren't wealthy or even stable when you met her, which means she was in your life before you had money.

 

My husband and I met when he was still in college working on his undergrad. We struggled as most young couples do, but we were in it together. We both worked and paid the bills. We were together 5 years prior to getting married, but lived as though we were already married. We had bought a house together, shared finances, bank accounts, etc. After we married, my husband got his MBA and had always made way more money than me. Well, since earning his MBA. He is also in an executive position. I guess what I'm wondering is why do you have a prenup if she was in your life prior to you attaining your wealth. Do you think there may be some resentment (even if she's not admitted it) towards you for asking for the prenup.

 

This is just my personal opinion. I'm old fashioned when it comes to certain things and roles in marriage and just don't understand the whole prenup. I would have been offended as hell if my husband asked me to sign one after I supported his dreams and took care of everything in our home from cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping/mowing grass/etc., while also working a full-time job,while he was getting his MBA. Does that make sense?

 

Maybe there is more to the story and you haven't shared, but is there a specific reason you wanted a prenup? I know for me that I wouldn't marry someone who asked me to sign that especially if he wasn't even financially stable when we met.

 

Also, I saw you mentioned that she wants children, but you don't. Obviously now isn't the time to drag another person into your problems, but if you're able to move on and reconcile, do you think you could agree to having a child with her? You mentioned you thought her desire to have children might be a way to (paraphrasing) extract more money out of you. If you really believe that is who your wife is and she just cheated on you as well, what in God's name are you doing continuing to stay married to this woman?

 

How many years have you been together... and how many married? Did you live together prior to marriage? What was the cause of a prenup?

 

Pre/post nups are not at all uncommon or shocking if one or both parties have sizable assets.

 

You can make the cooking/cleaning/grocery argument, but when it comes to cold, hard assets it really is apples or oranges.

 

Cooking/cleaning/house and yard maintenance etc are just a part of life. Both people would have to eat and keep their home hygienic and grass mowed etc even if they were single, living on their own.

 

My wife doesn't cook or clean for me, she cooks and cleans because she has to eat and live in a safe and hygienic environment. I don't work and mow the lawn and maintain the cars and kill spiders for her. I do it because that's what people do to afford to eat and pay rent and keep the cars running and I hate spiders.

 

Now I do dishes and laundry and vacumming and various other household tasks and she works full time as well, so we really do have shared task and responsibilities, but my point is, you have to do those things anyway.

 

If someone has sizable assets or realistic expectations of having sizable assets, it's common and not shocking and not an offense to want to legally protect them.

 

We never had any kind of prenup because we were both working stiffs and neither had any assets large enough to warrant the trouble and expense of a prenup and our incomes and income potentials were pretty equitable to begin with.

 

However from my perspective, anyone who would make a blanket refusal or find offense at the mention of a prenup, I would be suspect of. If someone in this day and age were to react with offense and outright refuse a prenup without discussion and without considering the costs and benefits to then, I would be suspicious of their intentions.

 

Prenups are negotiated terms to protect the assets and rights of both parties. If someone isn't willing to discuss it and consider it, I would be concerned with their ultimate intentions.

[Overtaxed]

I'm curious what led to the prenup. Do you mind elaborating? You stated you weren't wealthy or even stable when you met her, which means she was in your life before you had money.

 

My husband and I met when he was still in college working on his undergrad. We struggled as most young couples do, but we were in it together. We both worked and paid the bills. We were together 5 years prior to getting married, but lived as though we were already married. We had bought a house together, shared finances, bank accounts, etc. Before we married, my husband got his MBA and had always made way more money than me. Well, since earning his MBA. We married one year into him working on his MBA. He is also in an executive position now, but wasn't when we met. I guess what I'm wondering is why do you have a prenup if she was in your life prior to you attaining your wealth. Do you think there may be some resentment (even if she's not admitted it) towards you for asking for the prenup.

 

This is just my personal opinion. I'm old fashioned when it comes to certain things and roles in marriage and just don't understand the whole prenup. I would have been offended as hell if my husband asked me to sign one after I supported his dreams and took care of everything in our home from cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping/mowing grass/etc., while also working a full-time job,while he was getting his MBA. Does that make sense?

 

Maybe there is more to the story and you haven't shared, but is there a specific reason you wanted a prenup? I know for me that I wouldn't marry someone who asked me to sign that especially if he wasn't even financially stable when we met.

 

Also, I saw you mentioned that she wants children, but you don't. Obviously now isn't the time to drag another person into your problems, but if you're able to move on and reconcile, do you think you could agree to having a child with her? You mentioned you thought her desire to have children might be a way to (paraphrasing) extract more money out of you. If you really believe that is who your wife is and she just cheated on you as well, what in God's name are you doing continuing to stay married to this woman?

 

How many years have you been together... and how many married? Did you live together prior to marriage? What was the cause of a prenup?

 

I'm not blaming you at all, but just trying to understand what caused this. How did she handle the idea of a prenup? Did it cause problems? For me, I would see it as my husband was going into the marriage already mistrusting me and without trust, what do you really have? What is the point in getting married if you think she's just out for your money. Maybe this has caused insecurity in her and the marriage. I know it certainly would for me, but everyone is different.

 

We've been together about 15 years (total). Married about 4. Yes, we lived together for most of the 15 year period.

 

Now, cause of the prenup. Well, if you had asked me before D-day, I'd have a lot of different answers. Divorce laws aren't fair to the higher earning partner. Although I wasn't making a ton when we married, I was on a path to it and it was pretty obvious I would be. My family has a pretty sizable amount of property and other assets that will pass to me eventually. I'm a "trust but verify" kind of person.

 

But now? This is the reason I have a pre-nup. Because, when something like this happens; I don't want to be looking at a cheating wife who can walk out with 1/2 of what we have when she was the at fault party and she's made much less than me for our entire relationship. I didn't want to hand anyone a "lotto ticket" that they could cash in at any time by jumping in bed with another guy. I didn't want to "encourage" bad behavior with financial incentives. I'd seen too many people go through that by the time we married and was determined to make sure that if my wife wanted to enjoy this lifestyle for the rest of her life that she'd also have an incentive to stay with me to enjoy it.

 

Is it "fair" or "right"? I don't know. It feels fairer to me than being in this situation weighing my options and knowing that a D would mean that I get to pay her for this betrayal. I never intended to use it, I never "threatened her" with it during the marriage, I just had it to protect myself if the worst happened and to try to keep that (the worst) from happening. The 2nd part was an abject failure. But the first part gives me some solace in the storm right know, I know I have the "option" to use the pre-nup and walk away from this financially intact. IMHO, if I do choose to stay, that should say a tremendous amount to my wife about how I feel about her. I never wanted it to be about money, I wanted it to be about both of us wanting to spend our lives together.

[AnneP]

We've been together about 15 years (total). Married about 4. Yes, we lived together for most of the 15 year period.

 

Now, cause of the prenup. Well, if you had asked me before D-day, I'd have a lot of different answers. Divorce laws aren't fair to the higher earning partner. Although I wasn't making a ton when we married, I was on a path to it and it was pretty obvious I would be. My family has a pretty sizable amount of property and other assets that will pass to me eventually. I'm a "trust but verify" kind of person.

 

But now? This is the reason I have a pre-nup. Because, when something like this happens; I don't want to be looking at a cheating wife who can walk out with 1/2 of what we have when she was the at fault party and she's made much less than me for our entire relationship. I didn't want to hand anyone a "lotto ticket" that they could cash in at any time by jumping in bed with another guy. I didn't want to "encourage" bad behavior with financial incentives. I'd seen too many people go through that by the time we married and was determined to make sure that if my wife wanted to enjoy this lifestyle for the rest of her life that she'd also have an incentive to stay with me to enjoy it.

 

Is it "fair" or "right"? I don't know. It feels fairer to me than being in this situation weighing my options and knowing that a D would mean that I get to pay her for this betrayal. I never intended to use it, I never "threatened her" with it during the marriage, I just had it to protect myself if the worst happened and to try to keep that (the worst) from happening. The 2nd part was an abject failure. But the first part gives me some solace in the storm right know, I know I have the "option" to use the pre-nup and walk away from this financially intact. IMHO, if I do choose to stay, that should say a tremendous amount to my wife about how I feel about her. I never wanted it to be about money, I wanted it to be about both of us wanting to spend our lives together.

 

Well of course it looks like you made the right decision, however that is results oriented. If I had to bet, she resents you for this.

 

If you do choose to reconcile, and you did have a child, one way you could prevent her from taking too much money is to sign another agreement. The fact that the issue of money has been mentioned so many times sounds like you almost expected her to burn you.

 

I don't think a baby is the best idea until you have a solid marriage. Your lives will forever change and you won't sleep for about two years. Good luck.

[ShatteredLady]

I (wrongly) assumed that you worked for a family business & the pre-nup was to protect your family. The way you describe it I would also have 'issues'. To me, that's clearly stating that whatever she brought to the marriage you could never be equal because you (were going to) earn more.

 

Does she see this as another form of control?

 

Has she ALWAYS seemed to simply accept the pre-nup or was it something that she begrudgingly agreed to thinking that she loved you enough, it would never be an issue? You didn't answer the 'her' part of the questions.

 

I think this does speak to her state of mind. I can see how, from her perspective, this isn't a marriage of equals for you because 'logically' you are not & could never be equal.

 

Obviously nothing excuses adultery but it's important to recognize the motivating factors before reconciliation is decided. If her 'whys' can't be rectified 'why?' wouldn't she do it again?

Edited January 25, 2017 by ShatteredLady

[Overtaxed]

I (wrongly) assumed that you worked for a family business & the pre-nup was to protect your family. The way you describe it I would also have 'issues'. To me, that's clearly stating that whatever she brought to the marriage you could never be equal because you (were going to) earn more.

 

Does she see this as another form of control?

 

Has she ALWAYS seemed to simply accept the pre-nup or was it something that she begrudgingly agreed to thinking that she loved you enough, it would never be an issue? You didn't answer the 'her' part of the questions.

 

I think this does speak to her state of mind. I can see how, from her perspective, this isn't a marriage of equals for you because 'logically' you are not & could never be equal.

 

Obviously nothing excuses adultery but it's important to recognize the motivating factors before reconciliation is decided. If her 'whys' can't be rectified 'why?' wouldn't she do it again?

 

Does she see it as another form of control? IDK, but, I'd guess, probably. And, without removing all sympathy for myself, I do want to talk about this a little bit.

 

A prenup does nothing if you remain married. I've never withheld income from her, never told her "you can't buy that" and never tried to live a "higher" lifestyle than her. Most of the money we earn is spent by her, her car cost more, she decides what she wants and buys it; we almost never disagree about money. I've never used it to "control" the relationship financially, I feel that a marriage is a partnership with 50/50 split, we decide together if we're going to spend a lot of money.

 

Now, here's the part that's going to get me flamed. I simply don't feel the laws surrounding a D are fair to the higher-earning partner. If she chooses to file based on her feelings for the AP (as an example), it's not my fault. Why should I pay for her to stay in the lifestyle that she leads with me while she's off with another man? Why should she continue to enjoy the fruits of my labor when I don't get to enjoy the things I want from her in the marriage (time, companionship, intimacy). A D ends all the "benefits" for me in the marriage, IMHO, it should end hers as well. I know this is going to get me killed by some on here, but this is how I explained it to her and this is how I honestly feel about it; seems like a horribly unfair agreement to enter into (marriage without a prenup). Especially since I'm in a no-fault state, it doesn't matter that she stepped out.

 

She begrudgingly agreed to the pre-nup, for me, it was a condition of marriage. It wasn't a huge fight, but, she wasn't happy about it; that's without question. Her take was that her religion would never allow her to divorce me, so, why was it necessary?

 

Simple fact of the matter, marriage partners are never equal. My wife brings more emotional intelligence, more fun, and more beauty into the relationship than I do. I bring more money into the relationship. In a D, why should she get to keep the money when I lose all the benefits she brings to me/us? Longer philosophical discussion, but, in short, that's how I feel about it.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Overtaxed

[Overtaxed]

Well of course it looks like you made the right decision, however that is results oriented. If I had to bet, she resents you for this.

 

If you do choose to reconcile, and you did have a child, one way you could prevent her from taking too much money is to sign another agreement. The fact that the issue of money has been mentioned so many times sounds like you almost expected her to burn you.

 

I don't think a baby is the best idea until you have a solid marriage. Your lives will forever change and you won't sleep for about two years. Good luck.

 

I know she resented me when we were going through the process (it takes a few lawyers, and some uncomfortable negotiations to setup a prenup, it's not fun). We haven't talked about it in years, so, I suppose she could be harboring resentment, but, if so, it's down deep.

 

Yes, I would consider a post-nup if that was something that was bothering her, but not until this has blown over (obviously). I didn't "expect" her to burn me, but I do know the statistics and realized there's a very good chance that it could happen. However, one of the reasons I've been worried about having children is because there's no protecting yourself from crazy CS payments. As a rough guide, with a single child, if we D'ed and she had full custody (which would be pretty likely because I travel constantly for work), she'd make more on CS checks than she does at her job today. That's a very difficult thing to think about; the "draw" of a divorce with a child and no pre-nup with a high income partner is hard to resist. I never wanted it to be about money, and, the only way I know how to make it "not about that" was to make sure it was off the table if she walked out the door.

[kgcolonel]

Does she see it as another form of control? IDK, but, I'd guess, probably. And, without removing all sympathy for myself, I do want to talk about this a little bit.

 

A prenup does nothing if you remain married. I've never withheld income from her, never told her "you can't buy that" and never tried to live a "higher" lifestyle than her. Most of the money we earn is spent by her, her car cost more, she decides what she wants and buys it; we almost never disagree about money. I've never used it to "control" the relationship financially, I feel that a marriage is a partnership with 50/50 split, we decide together if we're going to spend a lot of money.

 

Now, here's the part that's going to get me flamed. I simply don't feel the laws surrounding a D are fair to the higher-earning partner. If she chooses to file based on her feelings for the AP (as an example), it's not my fault. Why should I pay for her to stay in the lifestyle that she leads with me while she's off with another man? Why should she continue to enjoy the fruits of my labor when I don't get to enjoy the things I want from her in the marriage (time, companionship, intimacy). A D ends all the "benefits" for me in the marriage, IMHO, it should end hers as well. I know this is going to get me killed by some on here, but this is how I explained it to her and this is how I honestly feel about it; seems like a horribly unfair agreement to enter into (marriage without a prenup). Especially since I'm in a no-fault state, it doesn't matter that she stepped out.

 

She begrudgingly agreed to the pre-nup, for me, it was a condition of marriage. It wasn't a huge fight, but, she wasn't happy about it; that's without question. Her take was that her religion would never allow her to divorce me, so, why was it necessary?

 

Simple fact of the matter, marriage partners are never equal. My wife brings more emotional intelligence, more fun, and more beauty into the relationship than I do. I bring more money into the relationship. In a D, why should she get to keep the money when I lose all the benefits she brings to me/us? Longer philosophical discussion, but, in short, that's how I feel about it.

 

 

The part I put in bold is interesting to me. While she "claims" that her religion wouldn't allow her to divorce but IT WOULD ALLOW HER TO CHEAT AND BETRAY HER HUSBAND?

 

I am often troubled when someone, anyone hides behind religion as opposed to their own personal character as to why they wouldn't do this or that. Turns out, you were wise with the prenup and her argument is now null and void.

[Midwestmissy]

If she resents everything she willingly agreed to, that's not overtaxed's problem. She signed up for the prenup 15 yrs ago, the child subject had been clearly discussed as far I can tell. So now she cheats and those are the reasons? I call complete bunk. It's more like she cheated and has decided to not take ownership and blame her husband for these horrible things she originally signed onto.

 

There's nothing wrong with a prenup. It's a legal document, same as a marriage license. She signed both, but folks are hung up on only one. Ftr, my wh and I didn't have one, we were both in the same financial boat when we married. She broke a vow, an agreement. He didn't. Just because you wouldn't have a prenup or choose to be childless doesn't mean he's in the wrong automatically.

[DKT3]

As someone who has reconciled after infidelity, I can attest that it is important that both address pre affair issue. It's all part of making a balanced healthy relationship.

 

With that being said, understand there is a faction of female posters that will always make female infidelities about the failure of the husband. It's normally covered by qualifiers like, cheating is wrong but, or maybe if you. Bottom line is cheating is always about the cheater, and how they deal with boundaries or lack of, thier coping skills, and impulse control. If one is lacking it's very likely they will cheat no matter the state of the marriage.

 

The control thing is another that gets thrown around, most of the time unwarranted. You setting boundaries or expectations is seen as controlling.

[Southern Sun]

I doubt any WS actually believe that statement, if they did they wouldn't bother hiding lying and misleading.

 

Agree. "I thought you wouldn't care" is total bullsh ! t.

[wmacbride]

op,

i'm not going to address the idea of you divorcing her, as that has been discussed a lot already, and it sounds like , if you could, you'd rather reconcile.

 

I'm here to tell you it can be done. My spouse had an A many years ago, but we were able to work through everything. It takes a long, long time, but it can be done. It will also have a lot of ups and downs, and it's often not a straight path. There are ups and downs, but I will say that , just speaking for myself, it has been worth the effort.

 

One exercise that you may find helpful is for both you and your ww to keep journals of each other to read, especially if you find all of your feelings difficult to talk about. Just as you have done on this thread, outline your feelings. The good, the bad and the ugly. Ev4ery so many days, take some time and read them together and discuss what's in them. think of them as being notepads for each other. I know that might sound lame, but it gives you a chance to work through feelings and thoughts that can be really hard to talk about in the moment they happen.

 

Also, if you do decide that reconciliation is the right path for you, you are gong to have to, at some point, talk about the problems in your marriage. this isn't to say they caused her to cheat ( she did that all on her own) , but rather that there are problems that you both need to sort out if your reconciled M is going to be satisfying for both of you.

 

one question...you keep referring to your w "psych". Is that a psychiatrist? Why is she seeing a psychiatrist? Did this start before or after she cheated?

[Southern Sun]

The time for that is before one turns to another. After...Well after in most cases it's too late.

 

The first part I agree with, and said so earlier in the thread

 

You are referencing the fact that it is too late for open and honest dialogue AFTER the affair...and that the WS should have approached her husband (the OP) before.

 

Ideally, obviously, yes. But many people don't really recognize their problems clearly, especially those that tend to suppression. And the way Overtaxed is describing his WW is very passive and avoidant. Maybe she didn't feel she could approach him, for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't make her feel she can open up to him. Maybe they both have culpability in this area.

 

But I HEAR Overtaxed being very logical. Perhaps if he can open the floor NOW, make her feel safe NOW, they have an opportunity. But only if he wants to. And only if it appears that she desires to stay in the M.

[wmacbride]

LOL, well.. Not to speak for all guys, but, for the ladies on here; the complaint is always the same. It's not that the wife doesn't cook, the house is a mess, or even that their wive's bodies haven't rebounded. It's sex. 100% of the time, when men are complaining about their "post-kid" life, it's sexual intimacy that's missing.

 

I just don't get it (and never have) how this happens. Sex is fun! It takes 5 minutes (if you ask us to go fast, we will). It feels good. It bonds people together. And yet, it seems in most married w/kids relationships, that 5 minutes that oh-so-important to the husband is just off the table. A man will run through walls for you if you give him regular/good sex, he'll wake up all night long to change the baby if he knows sex is on the morning menu.

 

I just don't get why that's the thing that women so quickly jettison when baby comes along. You could NEVER load the dishwasher again and use that time for sex and your man would be 100% happier, I guarantee it.

 

Sorry for the sexist bent to this, not like men are angels either, but this is SO important to men, it's the number 1,2,3,4 and 5 reasons we love our wives. I know you don't want to be seen as nothing more than a walking sex toy, and YOUR NOT, it's only when sex falls off that we start to look at you that way (because we're so horny we can't think straight) and can't connect emotionally and spiritually during sex (it becomes a "need" more than a "want"). If any woman is reading this in a marriage that's having problems, I can promise you, if you go to bed with your husband tonight and give him great sex, tomorrow those problems are going to be better. Keep doing it, and the improvement will continue. Note that this does not apply to straying husbands, they don't deserve it!

 

Oh, and BTW, I'm not really sure how not having kids is selfish. Kids don't ask to be brought here. It's not like they're "waiting to be born" they don't exist until you make them. And, by definition, you can't want something if you don't exist. Yeah, I know, I've read too much philosophy. I'm working on it.

 

um, please re-read what you just wrote.

 

In one post, you admonish women for not being excited about five minutes of sex, then further own, you say that will make a couple feel emotionally connected.

 

I don't know about all women, but for most, five minutes of sex is not going to be that good, and there is no way in hell that is going to fix any sort of deeper issues in a marriage. . Any woman I have talked to/ read about needs more than that.