Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Overtaxed]

was she on antidepressants? Some SSRI's ( prozac, paxil, etc.) and tricyclics ( elavil) can completely tank a person's libido. It's one of th side effects of a lot of antidepressants.

 

Yes, but it was Welburtrin, not a typical SSRI. However, her drive wasn't really different on or off. She was more upset off them and seemed very detached, but that was also the the time the affair was ongoing. She quit medication maybe 2 months before the affair started.

[elaine567]

I agree on the children, when you say "the sex too" what do you mean?

 

YOU wrote.

 

No, not at all. But the majority of our time sexually is not quickies. In fact, I can't remember our last quickie. Has to have been years ago. Typical bedroom time is probably 30 minutes or so; wife usually has a few orgasms, but can't orgasm from sex alone. She orgasms easily (in my experience) but does experience pain from sex occasionally. Her complaint about sex would probably be more about "acrobatics" than quickies, I enjoy trying new things and am very adventurous. She has said that has bothered her in the past, even thought most of those adventures (toys, mostly) she seemed to really enjoy in the moment.

 

I think sex may be an issue due to the pain and the fact that your "new things" bothered her "in the past". I guess they may still bother her, only she just hasn't mentioned it recently...

Her "enjoyment" and orgasms unfortunately may be all fake.

"Easy" orgasms could be the clue here. Good Christian girl giving her husband what he wants...

Her "psych" telling her to take sex off the menu - that may have been solely her idea.

 

Painful sex is not fun, (unless you happen to be a person who likes pain), and it tends to colour things even when it is not painful as the fear of pain is often always present.

Your "acrobatics" and "adventures" may be what you like, but I have a feeling they are not appreciated by your wife.

The problem with passive conflict avoidant people is that they often do not tell the real truth, they often will only tell you what you want to hear.

 

I could be totally wrong of course, but you need to consider it.

[Overtaxed]

YOU wrote.

 

I think sex may be an issue due to the pain and the fact that your "new things" bothered her "in the past". I guess they may still bother her, only she just hasn't mentioned it recently...

Her "enjoyment" and orgasms unfortunately may be all fake.

"Easy" orgasms could be the clue here. Good Christian girl giving her husband what he wants...

Her "psych" telling her to take sex off the menu - that may have been solely her idea.

 

Painful sex is not fun, (unless you happen to be a person who likes pain), and it tends to colour things even when it is not painful as the fear of pain is often always present.

Your "acrobatics" and "adventures" may be what you like, but I have a feeling they are not appreciated by your wife.

The problem with passive conflict avoidant people is that they often do not tell the real truth, they often will only tell you what you want to hear.

 

I could be totally wrong of course, but you need to consider it.

 

No, I don't think your wrong. I just didn't follow what you were saying, now that I understand..

 

Thank the lord for the Internet where you can stuff like this anonymously!

 

Sex has always been between "some" and "really" painful for my SO. I'm a bit larger than average and she's a bit smaller and, depending on the time of the month, sometimes we just don't fit together well (sorry, this is the best way that I could put it). She never orgasms from sex, which, is a bit unusual given my past experience, but not entirely out of the norm either. I never thought about it one way or the other.

 

However, she's very orgasmic in other ways. And no, I don't think she's faking it, because she's always been this way. Oral sex, it's easy for me to do it a few times with her in 10 minutes. Toys, sometimes she's <60 seconds. And she orgasms during sex all the time using toys, just never without some "help" (which can also be her or my hands).

 

However, did hit on something. And that is that I think she feels, for some reason, guilt that we do things even the least "outside the lines" in the bedroom. She very often doesn't want oral sex (and this has been our entire relationship) and doesn't really enjoy performing it either. Same thing with toys, she's never the one to reach for them, even though both of those things are a guaranteed quick and powerful O for her. I think she feels guilt that she can't "just do it", and her church upbringing taught her that anything but "missionary sex" is wrong. So, I think even though she gets a ton of physical pleasure out of those acts she's conflicted and doesn't like the fact that she can't do it during sex. But no, I don't think she's faking it.

 

Me? Well, I'm a bit conflicted on sex too believe it or not. I love the feeling, but I know that it hurts her. Honestly, I'd just as soon have oral sex as actual sex most nights, but I know she doesn't enjoy performing it (or, more accurately, I think she feels guilty because we're not having sex and guilty because it's oral sex). But actual sex has always been "meh" for me, I don't like hurting women and I know that I do sometimes during the act; and, of course, as soon as I get in my head and think "I'm hurting her" there's no way I can "finish" and I wind up feeling bad about myself. So, I generally try to avoid it more than not so she doesn't associate orgasms and pain.

 

I don't think this is a terribly unusual issue, so I'd be interested to hear what other ladies on here think.

[Try]

But there's being "stern but fair" and "blowing someone's s**t up like a psychopath because you can".

Your wife already made the choice of blowing both of your "s**t up like a psychopath because" she wanted to. The only thing being discussed now is if and how you should hide that fact from others.

[AnneP]

Pre/post nups are not at all uncommon or shocking if one or both parties have sizable assets.

 

You can make the cooking/cleaning/grocery argument, but when it comes to cold, hard assets it really is apples or oranges.

 

Cooking/cleaning/house and yard maintenance etc are just a part of life. Both people would have to eat and keep their home hygienic and grass mowed etc even if they were single, living on their own.

 

My wife doesn't cook or clean for me, she cooks and cleans because she has to eat and live in a safe and hygienic environment. I don't work and mow the lawn and maintain the cars and kill spiders for her. I do it because that's what people do to afford to eat and pay rent and keep the cars running and I hate spiders.

 

Now I do dishes and laundry and vacumming and various other household tasks and she works full time as well, so we really do have shared task and responsibilities, but my point is, you have to do those things anyway.

 

If someone has sizable assets or realistic expectations of having sizable assets, it's common and not shocking and not an offense to want to legally protect them.

 

We never had any kind of prenup because we were both working stiffs and neither had any assets large enough to warrant the trouble and expense of a prenup and our incomes and income potentials were pretty equitable to begin with.

 

However from my perspective, anyone who would make a blanket refusal or find offense at the mention of a prenup, I would be suspect of. If someone in this day and age were to react with offense and outright refuse a prenup without discussion and without considering the costs and benefits to then, I would be suspicious of their intentions.

 

Prenups are negotiated terms to protect the assets and rights of both parties. If someone isn't willing to discuss it and consider it, I would be concerned with their ultimate intentions.

 

My point was the my husband and I met when he didn't earn what he now does and had I not supported his dreams (career wise) he certainly wouldn't be where he is today.

 

Yes, someone has to do the chores but I had a career of my own and was working 50-60 hours some weeks managing a practice for a physician. I also would spend hours every day cleaning/cooking/etc, because all of that fell on my while he was getting his MBA. He didn't have to do anything. I made those sacrifices so when he wasn't busy with school, we had time alone.

 

Now that I'm thinking back, when we first met I earned more than him and paid for our vacations and flights. No questions asked.

 

I also moved 3,000 miles away months after he attained his MBA because he was offered a great opportunity. Years later, we then moved 3,000 miles back because he was climbing the ladder.

 

Every situation is unique and I was just curious what his reasons for asking for this were. I know it's not something I would be comfortable with when I personally did things and made sacrifices that furthered HIS career. Marriage is. Partnership and your success should also be your spouse's success. That's always been my experience anyway.

[Overtaxed]

My point was the my husband and I met when he didn't earn what he now does and had I not supported his dreams (career wise) he certainly wouldn't be where he is today.

 

Yes, someone has to do the chores but I had a career of my own and was working 50-60 hours some weeks managing a practice for a physician. I also would spend hours every day cleaning/cooking/etc, because all of that fell on my while he was getting his MBA. He didn't have to do anything. I made those sacrifices so when he wasn't busy with school, we had time alone.

 

Now that I'm thinking back, when we first met I earned more than him and paid for our vacations and flights. No questions asked.

 

I also moved 3,000 miles away months after he attained his MBA because he was offered a great opportunity. Years later, we then moved 3,000 miles back because he was climbing the ladder.

 

Every situation is unique and I was just curious what his reasons for asking for this were. I know it's not something I would be comfortable with when I personally did things and made sacrifices that furthered HIS career. Marriage is. Partnership and your success should also be your spouse's success. That's always been my experience anyway.

 

I see what you're saying, however, that's not really my situation. I was in a position when we married where it was clear that I'd be moving up the salary ranks quickly. I never asked my wife to support my career or support me for any period of time in our relationship (even before marriage). She's never quit a job for me, or had to take a lesser job because I asked her to. Our work lives have been wholly owned by the individual, not by the couple. And, of course, because we don't have kids, there's been no career gap for my wife (which would be a good reason to pay more in a D). It's been a very equal relationship, both of us work very hard, but we work in different fields; mine pays very well and is risky, her's is more stable but less high earning.

 

I asked for it because you just can never know the other person entirely (obviously, given this thread) and, also, I never wanted my wife to view me as a "meal ticket". I wanted her to marry me and share my life, not share my income with someone who divorced me through no direct fault of my own. The allure of a high dollar divorce, IMHO, for a lot of women, is hard to pass up. It's a lotto ticket that you can cash in whenever you get the slightest bit upset; it's like having another woman live in your marital home who's made it clear that she's up for sex with the husband whenever he wants it. The draw is just toxic, and I wanted to remove it; if you want to be with me, you'll get to share in what we earn and live a pretty fabulous (IMHO) lifestyle. If you don't, you don't get to keep living that lifestyle. I know it's not the way most marriages are, but it's what felt (and feels) "fair" to me.

[AnneP]

I see what you're saying, however, that's not really my situation. I was in a position when we married where it was clear that I'd be moving up the salary ranks quickly. I never asked my wife to support my career or support me for any period of time in our relationship (even before marriage). She's never quit a job for me, or had to take a lesser job because I asked her to. Our work lives have been wholly owned by the individual, not by the couple. And, of course, because we don't have kids, there's been no career gap for my wife (which would be a good reason to pay more in a D). It's been a very equal relationship, both of us work very hard, but we work in different fields; mine pays very well and is risky, her's is more stable but less high earning.

 

I asked for it because you just can never know the other person entirely (obviously, given this thread) and, also, I never wanted my wife to view me as a "meal ticket". I wanted her to marry me and share my life, not share my income with someone who divorced me through no direct fault of my own. The allure of a high dollar divorce, IMHO, for a lot of women, is hard to pass up. It's a lotto ticket that you can cash in whenever you get the slightest bit upset; it's like having another woman live in your marital home who's made it clear that she's up for sex with the husband whenever he wants it. The draw is just toxic, and I wanted to remove it; if you want to be with me, you'll get to share in what we earn and live a pretty fabulous (IMHO) lifestyle. If you don't, you don't get to keep living that lifestyle. I know it's not the way most marriages are, but it's what felt (and feels) "fair" to me.

 

I understand. And she didn't have to sign anything. I wish you the best.

 

Also, just to be clear: I wasn't implying your prenup had anything to do with her affair. Cheating is never okay.

[Southern Sun]

Well, she's following the script pretty much word for word. Question I'd ask (perhaps some female cheaters on here) what are you actually saying when you say those things (if they're not really true about your spouse)? I want out? I don't know what I want? I can't face what I've done and have to shift the blame?

 

And yes, she is easily influenced and led. And I stopped leading. This is my issue and I own it; I got so tired of the "Want to go to dinner (me)" "Sure (her)" "Ok, let's go to XYZ (me)" and then "I don't like anything there (her)" I just gave up. Now I ask her where she wants to go, and she hates it. Same thing with sex, I just got so tired of hearing "no" (this is years ago, BTW) that I stopped initiating it and just waited for her to be ready. Again, she hates this, which I understand, everyone wants to feel desired and I wasn't giving that to her anymore. But an ego can only take so much, how many times can you be rejected for something before you just throw up your hands and say "We can have sex whenever you're ready". This was one of the conditions we both agreed to, we have to fix this part of our relationship; she hates the way it is and so do I.

 

Well, I'll try...on a couple of these. I am a fWW.

 

I never said those things about my husband...that he was abusive or whatever. For the most part though, when a person is lambasting their spouse while they are having an affair, it's because they need to mentally justify what they are doing. It's wrong, it's unfair, they know this, and they need to rationalize it to be able to function.

 

That's especially true if you hear all of that as initial excuses or reasons right after D-Day (I felt controlled, etc.), and then those arguments fall by the wayside when they realize what they've done and suddenly start scrambling to reconcile. Where are all those complaints now? However if the WS continues to make these proclamations after D-Day, she is probably looking for a way out of the M. "I've made my decision, now I must make my decision right," kind of thinking. What you have to ask yourself, if your WW is saying she feels controlled, is: could it be true? Might there be a legitimate issue here?

 

It's not an excuse for cheating, but it might a real complaint.

 

I have to also address the sex and the terrible cycle you are in. You say you are high desire and yet you don't initiate because you are tired of the rejection. I don't know which came first here, but my bet is that your wife finds that highly unattractive. You aren't motivated to "desire" her and that certainly can't turn her on. I understand that this supposedly comes from years of hearing "no." But when you schlump away because you can't face a no from her; she never feels pursued by you (and women LOVE to be pursued...by a man with the right attitude); there is NEVER going to be a hot dynamic between you two. This is one of the ways my BH and I fizzled.

 

A woman is turned on by a man who can't resist her. She is also turned on by the man she loves staying resilient when she says no...not by harassing her in the face of it but by understanding and coming back next time...and approaching her in the ways that do it for her. For ME, I like my guy to know what HE wants...no timidity. I want him to be in control. And when he has lost confidence, it's all downhill.

[Overtaxed]

Well, I'll try...on a couple of these. I am a fWW.

 

I never said those things about my husband...that he was abusive or whatever. For the most part though, when a person is lambasting their spouse while they are having an affair, it's because they need to mentally justify what they are doing. It's wrong, it's unfair, they know this, and they need to rationalize it to be able to function.

 

That's especially true if you hear all of that as initial excuses or reasons right after D-Day (I felt controlled, etc.), and then those arguments fall by the wayside when they realize what they've done and suddenly start scrambling to reconcile. Where are all those complaints now? However if the WS continues to make these proclamations after D-Day, she is probably looking for a way out of the M. "I've made my decision, now I must make my decision right," kind of thinking. What you have to ask yourself, if your WW is saying she feels controlled, is: could it be true? Might there be a legitimate issue here?

 

It's not an excuse for cheating, but it might a real complaint.

 

I have to also address the sex and the terrible cycle you are in. You say you are high desire and yet you don't initiate because you are tired of the rejection. I don't know which came first here, but my bet is that your wife finds that highly unattractive. You aren't motivated to "desire" her and that certainly can't turn her on. I understand that this supposedly comes from years of hearing "no." But when you schlump away because you can't face a no from her; she never feels pursued by you (and women LOVE to be pursued...by a man with the right attitude); there is NEVER going to be a hot dynamic between you two. This is one of the ways my BH and I fizzled.

 

A woman is turned on by a man who can't resist her. She is also turned on by the man she loves staying resilient when she says no...not by harassing her in the face of it but by understanding and coming back next time...and approaching her in the ways that do it for her. For ME, I like my guy to know what HE wants...no timidity. I want him to be in control. And when he has lost confidence, it's all downhill.

 

I couldn't agree more on the "not pursing" thing. I know that was a huge mistake (now I do, seemed reasonable at the time). I don't/won't understand it, but women seem to love the power to say "No" and still be pursued. To me, the logical thing was "OK, you don't want sex as much as I do, I'm always good to go, so just let me know when you're ready". Seemed reasonable. Huge mistake. And, sad thing, I couldn't resist her, I had to physically keep myself from getting too close or else I'd start to get aroused. It was a stupid power game, but I know what it was now and I'm never going to let it happen again. Men who are reading this, most women love men to make decisions, even if they want to fight with you about each and every one of them. The problem disconnect for most men, IMHO, is that we really don't care that much. Take going out to eat; yes, I'm hungry. But I can eat anywhere, I really don't have any food I don't like. My wife, however, is very picky. So, it seems reasonable to ask "Where would you like to go to eat", right? WRONG. It drove her nuts. And it was completely unintentional, it was just me interacting with her as I would another guy; if one guy loves craft beers and I only like Budweiser and we're heading out to drink, I'm going to ask him "Where would you like to go" because I know he's got a specific thing he likes and I don't really care. Don't do that with women, just trust me, don't.

 

However, to your 2nd point. Controlling? Perhaps. But, this is a really, really fine line. See the above conversation, I was totally "uncontrolling" when we went out to eat. Same thing in bed, you call the shots. And both of them ended badly. So, IDK, there's obviously a line between a lump on a log and Atilla the Hun, but it's a hard line to figure out. I never told her what to do. I think her "controlling" issue is more that I would manipulate her (in her eyes) to spend time together. If you see my post where I explain this, that was never my intention, if she was leaving to go shopping with friends, I'd say "I'll miss you" and she piled on guilt when I said that. Not at all what I was saying; not "don't go", but "I will, in fact, miss you". Guys are literal like that, and I'm as literal as they come; not trying to put a ton of hidden meaning into it. I stopped this behavior and it feels so cold to me; like IDC what she's doing or that we're not spending time together, but, honestly, if that's what she wants, it's not the end of the world. Now instead of "I'll miss you", I say "Have fun". Maybe it will help.

 

But controlling of other things? No, I wouldn't consider myself that. She's always has full access to the financial stuff. Never told her what to buy or that she was spending too much. I'm pretty easy going, I just don't get all spun up about the type of soup or the brand of cereal; I just don't care.

 

Finally, yes, I'd lost confidence. Or at least to her, acted like I had so that I didn't have to deal with the rejection. But that's not my natural manner, at work, I'm very decisive and make decisions all the time. I like leading people, and I enjoyed making decisions for our household. I especially enjoyed making decisions about when/when/how we would have sex. But, after strings of "No" and the issues with causing her pain during sex, it became hard to make a decision; I felt like she wasn't asking me to decide, she was asking me to read her mind and figure out if "now" was the right time.

 

Quick edit: How long did it take you to move into the "what have I done stage" from d-day?

Edited January 25, 2017 by Overtaxed

[AnneP]

I think you make a lot of great arguments for not having children with her. A) That was never the plan . B) She's just been caught cheating. C) Bringing a newborn child into a family is literally one of the most stressful life experiences, but it's also rewarding. D) You enjoy your child-free life. And that's okay. People who don't want to be parents SHOULD NOT be parents.

 

Also, regarding medication (specifically anti-depressants) and sex drive, SSRIs are known to not only lower/kill the libido, but to also "kill love" in marriages. It's a fact. Google it and read the marriages this has caused to fail, however you said she's on Wellbutrin, which is not an SSRI, it's an NDRI and actually can and often does increase libido in both men and women. That's a very common side effect.

 

I also wholeheartedly agree with your assessment regarding sex after kids. It's a fact. Happens to most people. I saw it happen in my marriage and didn't even care. We went from having sex 3-4 times a week (even during pregnancy) to maybe once a week after our first was born. You make such great points about how hard is it to make the time for sex and husbands would gladly help out if they knew they would be getting some on a regular basis. My husband helped when our kids were young and we did have sex, just a lot less than we used to and I know for me it was the SSRI that killed it.

[sandylee1]

The part I put in bold is interesting to me. While she "claims" that her religion wouldn't allow her to divorce but IT WOULD ALLOW HER TO CHEAT AND BETRAY HER HUSBAND?

 

I am often troubled when someone, anyone hides behind religion as opposed to their own personal character as to why they wouldn't do this or that. Turns out, you were wise with the prenup and her argument is now null and void.

 

I couldn't agree more with the statement about religion. Talk about being hypocritical isy. It's choosing what parts of the religion suit you at different times.

 

Whatever happened to the vow of fidelity for those who profess their religion.

 

If she's such a devout Catholic, she may well be aware that your marriage could be annulled and you could leave her with only what she came into the marriage with.

 

Here's potential grounds in your case

One or both partners did not intend to be open to children.

 

I believe you made it clear that you didn't want children, but you don't need an annulment with your prenup.

 

Whilst I agree that the prenup was a good thing from your perspective, I wouldn't have married my husband if he asked for one and that doesn't mean I was after his cash or had ulterior motive.

 

I'd understand if I was marrying a multi millionaire, that they'd want a prenup, but not your bog standard wealthy man. No chance.

[Overtaxed]

I couldn't agree more with the statement about religion. Talk about being hypocritical isy. It's choosing what parts of the religion suit you at different times.

 

Whatever happened to the vow of fidelity for those who profess their religion.

 

If she's such a devout Catholic, she may well be aware that your marriage could be annulled and you could leave her with only what she came into the marriage with.

 

Here's potential grounds in your case

One or both partners did not intend to be open to children.

 

I believe you made it clear that you didn't want children, but you don't need an annulment with your prenup.

 

Whilst I agree that the prenup was a good thing from your perspective, I wouldn't have married my husband if he asked for one and that doesn't mean I was after his cash or had ulterior motive.

 

I'd understand if I was marrying a multi millionaire, that they'd want a prenup, but not your bog standard wealthy man. No chance.

 

Just out of curiosity, why not? A prenup changes nothing as long as your married. It's an agreement that you or your husband (whoever the less rich partner is) won't kill the other in court should you divorce. IMHO, I think a prenup should be mandatory for everyone getting married, there's a good chance you'll wind up divorced, it's much better to be divorced and still have the stuff you bought and money you earned than not!

 

If it's because your a stay at home Mom, yeah, I get that. A prenup shouldn't be off the table though, it should just take into account what you put into that relationship (that were non-financial but very valuable). If I was marrying a woman richer than me and she asked for a prenup; I would think "I found myself a smart woman" not be offended in the least.

 

Not an attack, more a curiosity.

 

And the thing about religion. Oh yeah, that burns me up inside. Especially since religion was a big topic of discussion between the wife and the AP; he was portraying himself as a spiritual leader to my wife. Makes me sick, it really does, the manipulation hurts almost as bad as the mental images of them together. Religion has done much good in the world, but, as soon as someone starts to "talk to me about it" outside of church, my "spidey sense" starts tingling. This person is trying to manipulate me in some way, be careful. It's such an easy way to bend people to your will, and, if you do believe in God, that's got to be up there in the list of "worst sins you can commit". And yet, so many religious people just can't help themselves, as soon as someone sees you with "spiritual power" they very often can't think for themselves anymore. It's terrifying and disgusting how it's used to twist people.

[kgcolonel]

OT....just curious...where is your WW's perspective now. Is she wanting reconciliation, indifferent, conceeding D or what.

 

Has she really expressed remorse, and tried to make amends with you?

 

We have really been hung up on the prenup, children and the why's she's done what she's done but that, frankly is water under the bridge....not to diminish its importance but those facts will not change. It may help you understand and cope but nothing more.

 

If she's not remorseful, and working to do her part to put the M back together, then what is she doing?

 

Just wondering where her head is now?

[Overtaxed]

OT....just curious...where is your WW's perspective now. Is she wanting reconciliation, indifferent, conceeding D or what.

 

Has she really expressed remorse, and tried to make amends with you?

 

We have really been hung up on the prenup, children and the why's she's done what she's done but that, frankly is water under the bridge....not to diminish its importance but those facts will not change. It may help you understand and cope but nothing more.

 

If she's not remorseful, and working to do her part to put the M back together, then what is she doing?

 

Just wondering where her head is now?

 

Yeah, that info would probably be helpful to everyone. Sorry, been trying to answer questions and lost sight of what's going on.

 

She's starting to feel remorse, that's for sure. Her mother told her to go back on her medication (we agreed that she would tell her mother she had an emotional affair; I'm afraid it would have killed her if she had told her the whole truth). She has said "I want to make this work" many times. We've had sex a few times, but, that's been difficult because I've been away. Most nights we could have sex (in the same state/country) we have. And we've been talking a LOT, long talks, very open book kind of stuff. Telling each other things (not about the affair) that we'd never shared in the 15 years we've been together. So, some big positives.

 

But also some negatives. She's still defending the AP at times, even after I shared the info I got from the AP's wife (he's a serial WH, the wife was devastated when I guess he told my wife "She doesn't care"). The AP and his wife are trying to reconcile, and now that I have a communication line to her, it's really easy to check and see if there's any unexplained "overlap" in their absence from the home. The defending the AP behavior has to stop, and we're working on it, but it's still fresh, so I know it's going to take time. But IMHO, she needs to hate this man for what he's done to your marriage, not feel sorry for him that he's in a ****ty marriage (which, almost certainly, has been of his own making, if it's even true).

 

There has been no additional contact, and I'm pretty confident I would catch it. I work in IT, it's like "The Wire" in my house right now <joke, mostly>.

 

Is she doing her part? Not yet, but she's working harder. Her part is bigger than my part, and she's still blame shifting. But, as I said earlier, I'm afraid to push too hard, I think it might actually break her too badly and something horrible could happen. I can't explain it, maybe other BS's have seen it before, but it's like she's shell shocked; not really "there". Don't know how else to describe it, it's not like she's sad, it's not like she's not interested in things (she's working out a lot and busy at work) it's just like she's not "all there". But she's affectionate and keeps saying she wants to work it out, so, it's a start.

 

As someone else said, I'm not sure she 100% realizes what she's done, or what would happen if I pulled the trigger and walked away. Maybe the shell shock is part of that; she starting to realize? IDK, it's weird, I think about how I'd act if I was the WH, and it's nothing like this. But I thrive in crisis, it brings out the best in me and I work hard to fix things (but am lazy as he** when things are "good" both in work and at home, so, not trying to put myself above others). She does not, she's much more the "steady hand" in the relationship than I am.

 

IDK, as I'm sure you've derived from my 100,000 words in this thread, I would like to fix this. But I have my doubts, getting over the betrayal of trust is going to be hard. Rebuilding the respect that she used to have for me is going to be moderately difficult. Getting over the sex part will be easier. But, honestly, the last thing I want to do is R with her and then, 10 years from now, find out she's miserable because I never gave her children. It's a hard decision and discussion. If her reproductive system was 100% and she wasn't 37, I'd probably push harder on it and encourage her to leave and try again with someone else if it's what she really wants. But, facts are facts, and, if she leaves at this age and with such a slim chance of normal reproduction (near 0), the chances of her finding Mr. Right who also has the $ to pay for IVF before she's too old is really slim (and, we don't know if she has good eggs, we never got that to point, we just figured out that the eggs aren't moving into the right area because of endo). I know there's a chance, but it's a really slim chance and, if it doesn't happen for her.. I think she'll be miserable for the rest of her days (which is not what I want for her).

 

One day at a time, right? And those days are getting better. It's a long road and we've hardly turned onto it yet though, so, who knows. See ladies, here's one advantage to marrying a guy who was a total sl*t at a young man: I can't judge harshly. Even with this addition to her "number", she's still downright chaste compared to me. And the last thing I want to be is a hypocrite, in fact, I think I may have blown up my marriage because I was so afraid to portray myself positively for fear of letting her down.

[AnneP]

Yeah, that info would probably be helpful to everyone. Sorry, been trying to answer questions and lost sight of what's going on.

 

She's starting to feel remorse, that's for sure. Her mother told her to go back on her medication (we agreed that she would tell her mother she had an emotional affair; I'm afraid it would have killed her if she had told her the whole truth). She has said "I want to make this work" many times. We've had sex a few times, but, that's been difficult because I've been away. Most nights we could have sex (in the same state/country) we have. And we've been talking a LOT, long talks, very open book kind of stuff. Telling each other things (not about the affair) that we'd never shared in the 15 years we've been together. So, some big positives.

 

But also some negatives. She's still defending the AP at times, even after I shared the info I got from the AP's wife (he's a serial WH, the wife was devastated when I guess he told my wife "She doesn't care"). The AP and his wife are trying to reconcile, and now that I have a communication line to her, it's really easy to check and see if there's any unexplained "overlap" in their absence from the home. The defending the AP behavior has to stop, and we're working on it, but it's still fresh, so I know it's going to take time. But IMHO, she needs to hate this man for what he's done to your marriage, not feel sorry for him that he's in a ****ty marriage (which, almost certainly, has been of his own making, if it's even true).

 

There has been no additional contact, and I'm pretty confident I would catch it. I work in IT, it's like "The Wire" in my house right now <joke, mostly>.

 

Is she doing her part? Not yet, but she's working harder. Her part is bigger than my part, and she's still blame shifting. But, as I said earlier, I'm afraid to push too hard, I think it might actually break her too badly and something horrible could happen. I can't explain it, maybe other BS's have seen it before, but it's like she's shell shocked; not really "there". Don't know how else to describe it, it's not like she's sad, it's not like she's not interested in things (she's working out a lot and busy at work) it's just like she's not "all there". But she's affectionate and keeps saying she wants to work it out, so, it's a start.

 

As someone else said, I'm not sure she 100% realizes what she's done, or what would happen if I pulled the trigger and walked away. Maybe the shell shock is part of that; she starting to realize? IDK, it's weird, I think about how I'd act if I was the WH, and it's nothing like this. But I thrive in crisis, it brings out the best in me and I work hard to fix things (but am lazy as he** when things are "good" both in work and at home, so, not trying to put myself above others). She does not, she's much more the "steady hand" in the relationship than I am.

 

IDK, as I'm sure you've derived from my 100,000 words in this thread, I would like to fix this. But I have my doubts, getting over the betrayal of trust is going to be hard. Rebuilding the respect that she used to have for me is going to be moderately difficult. Getting over the sex part will be easier. But, honestly, the last thing I want to do is R with her and then, 10 years from now, find out she's miserable because I never gave her children. It's a hard decision and discussion. If her reproductive system was 100% and she wasn't 37, I'd probably push harder on it and encourage her to leave and try again with someone else if it's what she really wants. But, facts are facts, and, if she leaves at this age and with such a slim chance of normal reproduction (near 0), the chances of her finding Mr. Right who also has the $ to pay for IVF before she's too old is really slim (and, we don't know if she has good eggs, we never got that to point, we just figured out that the eggs aren't moving into the right area because of endo). I know there's a chance, but it's a really slim chance and, if it doesn't happen for her.. I think she'll be miserable for the rest of her days (which is not what I want for her).

 

One day at a time, right? And those days are getting better. It's a long road and we've hardly turned onto it yet though, so, who knows. See ladies, here's one advantage to marrying a guy who was a total sl*t at a young man: I can't judge harshly. Even with this addition to her "number", she's still downright chaste compared to me. And the last thing I want to be is a hypocrite, in fact, I think I may have blown up my marriage because I was so afraid to portray myself positively for fear of letting her down.

 

You seem like a good husband. She's lucky to have you. Shame she decided to have an affair. I really hope you can both move past this and make it work. Good luck.

[elaine567]

Personally I think getting into a marriage with the proviso that there will be no children EVER is a recipe for disaster.

 

Clocks start ticking, the desire for an heir, the desire to pass on the genes, the broodiness, the hormones, the proximity to other people having cute babies takes over and the fights start. Having kids is a huge part of most people's lives and not something you can draw up a contract over. It just doesn't lend itself to cold, hard, inflexible decision making.

Some make the assumption that "no kids" means, "no kids now" but NOT "no kids ever".

Many think that the "no kids" person will be persuaded later into having kids, it is only a matter of time...

I guess that is what happened here.

People get sucked into marriage, they fall in "love" with a person and feel they cannot live without them, so they agree to the "no kids rule", without truly thinking it through.

Easy to say when you are young, free and single and the thought of being tied down with kids is abhorrent, but as the years roll in and people start having kids right, left and centre, people stuck in such "no kids" marriages often start to think differently.

 

Fine at 25, but at 35+ it is a different thing all together. NO kids, no grand children, no real family as people move away, age and die and siblings and friends start their own mini dynasties.

Making and keeping friends too can be difficult as so much in life centres around kids and families.

 

The fact that this woman repeatedly brought up the subject of kids means she was not on board with the "no kids rule", and no amount of "She agreed to it originally" or "She knew what she was getting into" will make it any better FOR HER. Resentment has built up.

 

Cheating was not the right way, but maybe she thought she could see a way out. Away from her husband who was not listening to her need to have children. At 37 it was now or never.

Sometimes the OM is just a means to an end, a support system to get the MW through leaving her marriage and not necessarily someone she sees a future with, it may explain the "affairing down" often seen.

 

Reconciling is going to be hard here, that huge elephant in the room needs to be addressed.

Yes, she may agree once again to the "no kids rule" to save her marriage, but the "problem" will not be solved, she will probably just stop speaking about it.

BUT no doubt that huge elephant will raise its head again sometime in the not too distant future as that clock will keep ticking and the resentment will still be there... Even at 50, 60, 70+ I guess the resentment may still be there if she never has any kids, sorry to say.

She may even blame you for squandering her youth when it may have been possible for her to get pregnant...

 

Seems like there is an impasse here.

YOU either give her what she wants and resentment in you builds or you stand your ground and resentment in her continues to build.

[Overtaxed]

Personally I think getting into a marriage with the proviso that there will be no children EVER is a recipe for disaster.

 

Clocks start ticking, the desire for an heir, the desire to pass on the genes, the broodiness, the hormones, the proximity to other people having cute babies takes over and the fights start. Having kids is a huge part of most people's lives and not something you can draw up a contract over. It just doesn't lend itself to cold, hard, inflexible decision making.

Some make the assumption that "no kids" means, "no kids now" but NOT "no kids ever".

Many think that the "no kids" person will be persuaded later into having kids, it is only a matter of time...

I guess that is what happened here.

People get sucked into marriage, they fall in "love" with a person and feel they cannot live without them, so they agree to the "no kids rule", without truly thinking it through.

Easy to say when you are young, free and single and the thought of being tied down with kids is abhorrent, but as the years roll in and people start having kids right, left and centre, people stuck in such "no kids" marriages often start to think differently.

 

Fine at 25, but at 35+ it is a different thing all together. NO kids, no grand children, no real family as people move away, age and die and siblings and friends start their own mini dynasties.

Making and keeping friends too can be difficult as so much in life centres around kids and families.

 

The fact that this woman repeatedly brought up the subject of kids means she was not on board with the "no kids rule", and no amount of "She agreed to it originally" or "She knew what she was getting into" will make it any better FOR HER. Resentment has built up.

 

Cheating was not the right way, but maybe she thought she could see a way out. Away from her husband who was not listening to her need to have children. At 37 it was now or never.

Sometimes the OM is just a means to an end, a support system to get the MW through leaving her marriage and not necessarily someone she sees a future with, it may explain the "affairing down" often seen.

 

Reconciling is going to be hard here, that huge elephant in the room needs to be addressed.

Yes, she may agree once again to the "no kids rule" to save her marriage, but the "problem" will not be solved, she will probably just stop speaking about it.

BUT no doubt that huge elephant will raise its head again sometime in the not too distant future as that clock will keep ticking and the resentment will still be there... Even at 50, 60, 70+ I guess the resentment may still be there if she never has any kids, sorry to say.

She may even blame you for squandering her youth when it may have been possible for her to get pregnant...

 

Seems like there is an impasse here.

YOU either give her what she wants and resentment in you builds or you stand your ground and resentment in her continues to build.

 

I agree with you, and this is exactly my fear. However, and this is really important, she almost certainly can't have them anyway. I know logic doesn't play 100% into this decision, but, if I walk away, there's a 99% chance she'll wind up without our relationship AND without children. Is it "possible", sure it is, people get pregnant in their 50's with enough help. But it takes a ton of money, a man who's willing to go through the process and lots of time (more money basically) where the woman isn't working because she's gonna be totally jacked up on drugs to try to stimulate fertility. She'd absolutely need another surgery even before IVF comes into play. IDK, I hear what you're saying, but I almost feel like this is a guy getting upset that his wife isn't a supermodel, leaving her at 50 and deciding "I'm going to date 20 year old supermodels". Dude, wake up, you're gonna throw away your marriage and you're NOT gonna date 20 year old supermodels.

 

And, on top of that, we've discussed and I'd consider adoption; it's still a difficult decision for me, but it's something that's "On the table" and, if you want a little guy running around with the issues both of us have, it's the most likely way to get there.

 

Funny thing is, I totally expected our friends having kids would change her mind in the opposite directions. So many of my friends have broken/damaged marriages right now with young kids at home. The wives complain to my wife non-stop. I thought this would be an eye opener as she watched other people's lives turn upside down as kids entered the picture. That has decidedly not happened of course.

[sandylee1]

No, I don't think your wrong. I just didn't follow what you were saying, now that I understand..

 

Thank the lord for the Internet where you can stuff like this anonymously!

 

Sex has always been between "some" and "really" painful for my SO. I'm a bit larger than average and she's a bit smaller and, depending on the time of the month, sometimes we just don't fit together well (sorry, this is the best way that I could put it). She never orgasms from sex, which, is a bit unusual

 

That's not unusual at all in general for women. Many don't have an O through penetrative (missionary) sex. Although it depends on the position

 

 

However, she's very orgasmic in other ways. And no, I don't think she's faking it, because she's always been this way. Oral sex, it's easy for me to do it a few times with her in 10 minutes. Toys, sometimes she's <60 seconds. And she orgasms during sex all the time using toys, just never without some "help" (which can also be her or my hands).

 

However, did hit on something. And that is that I think she feels, for some reason, guilt that we do things even the least "outside the lines" in the bedroom. She very often doesn't want oral sex (and this has been our entire relationship) and doesn't really enjoy performing it either. Same thing with toys, she's never the one to reach for them, even though both of those things are a guaranteed quick and powerful O for her. I think she feels guilt that she can't "just do it", and her

church upbringing taught her that anything but "missionary sex" is wrong

 

I'm Catholic and went to Catholic school and Sunday school /church and I've never had any teachings about what type of sex is acceptable or not.

 

The teaching in Religion Studies at school would be that sex before marriage is not in line with the Catholic Church - full stop.

 

. conflicted and doesn't like the fact that she can't do it during sex.

 

 

Maybe if she got on top, she'd be able to have an O, as she'd be in control of the movement and be able to feel it better.

 

I don't think this is a terribly unusual issue, so I'd be interested to hear what other ladies on here think.

 

My comments in bold in line.

 

I think different positions could be less painful for her, as well as using lubricants.

[elaine567]

Funny thing is, I totally expected our friends having kids would change her mind in the opposite directions. So many of my friends have broken/damaged marriages right now with young kids at home. The wives complain to my wife non-stop. I thought this would be an eye opener as she watched other people's lives turn upside down as kids entered the picture. That has decidedly not happened of course.

That is because most women do not blame the kids for their marriages going belly up.

It is the lazy, cheating, angry, emotionally unavailable, immature, abusive, violent, weak, porn/sports/alcohol/drug addicted, workaholic husband who takes her for granted and is a useless father to boot, who is to blame for ruining her marriage, NOT the kids.

[Overtaxed]

That is because most women do not blame the kids for their marriages going belly up.

It is the lazy, cheating, angry, emotionally unavailable, immature, abusive, violent, weak, porn/sports/alcohol/drug addicted, workaholic husband who takes her for granted and is a useless father to boot, who is to blame for ruining her marriage, NOT the kids.

 

LOL, love the husband description. It's so funny how different the talk tracks are for women and men regarding this. Men say to me, all the time, generally after a few beers (loosen up), "Man, Overtaxed, I LOVE my kids. But, if I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have had them". And it's never about the kids.

 

It's so sad, because it's NEVER about the kids. These men love their kids. What they're saying is "I miss my wife". Or perhaps a finer point "I miss intimacy with my wife". Women working 40+ hours a week and having kids at home seems to be a recipe for dropping the ball somewhere, and, frankly, it makes sense to drop the ball in your relationship; your husband should be able to take care of himself. He just doesn't want to, that's why he married you (not to the poster, just in general).

Edited January 26, 2017 by Overtaxed

[elaine567]

... your husband should be able to take care of himself. He just doesn't want to, that's why he married you (not to the poster, just in general).

 

And that highlights another bone of contention...

Most women do not want to be viewed as just a sperm receptacle.

"He married me for the regular sex. Oh wow, aren't I lucky..."

[Try]

Most women do not want to be viewed as just a sperm receptacle. "He married me for the regular sex. Oh wow, aren't I lucky..."

Men are hardwired differently than women. Ridiculing that difference instead of trying to understand it is counterproductive. Read "His Needs, Her Needs" and you will see that in the top list of men's needs, sex is #1, while for women it does not make the top list at all. This is why so many women, apparently including you, do not understand that to most men the act of sex is viewed as so much more than making a deposit into a "sperm receptacle". We just do not see it that way. Similarly, conversation is a top need of women that does not appear at the top of the male list. Men do not need conversation with their spouse as much as women do. For a happy marriage, both spouses must find the time to meet the others needs, without being judgmental.

[Overtaxed]

And that highlights another bone of contention...

Most women do not want to be viewed as just a sperm receptacle.

"He married me for the regular sex. Oh wow, aren't I lucky..."

 

Yeah, I'm going to have to say it, this is horribly unfair. Men don't want to be viewed as walking paychecks or emotional napkins any more than women want to be viewed as walking sex toys; does that mean that the female needs are less important or more noble? Of course not, and, any woman viewing herself as a walking sperm receptacle has really twisted their view of male sexuality to a extreme extent (IMHO, including my wife).

 

Sex is incredible important to guys. I'm sorry, it just is; especially if they are high drive. I joked and said many pages ago that giving a guy regular sex; he'll run through walls for you. It's a joke, but it's certainly based in truth.

 

Yes, he very likely did marry you for regular sex. He picked you. He loves you, and that's the way he shows it most easily. And you should not be upset that "regular sex with you" was something top of his mind walking down the aisle, because, for a lot of guys it is. It really is that important, and it's not "sex", it's "sex with YOU". The ego boost from that should be off the charts, not something you look down on with scorn.

 

In closing, female needs are no more "real" or "noble" or "right" than male needs in a relationship, implying otherwise is, IMHO, to discount the entire gender.

[elaine567]

Men are hardwired differently than women. Ridiculing that difference instead of trying to understand it is counterproductive. Read "His Needs, Her Needs" and you will see that in the top list of men's needs, sex is #1, while for women it does not make the top list at all. This is why so many women, apparently including you, do not understand that to most men the act of sex is viewed as so much more than making a deposit into a "sperm receptacle". We just do not see it that way. Similarly, conversation is a top need of women that does not appear at the top of the male list. Men do not need conversation with their spouse as much as women do. For a happy marriage, both spouses must find the time to meet the others needs, without being judgmental.

I am well aware of all that. Spend a few days on this forum and it is very obvious.

BUT it IS a bone of contention in many marriages.

FEW women in reality rate or understand a man's NEED for sex.

That is NOT why SHE got married and many woman are upset and disappointed that in many men's minds she is reduced to little more than a sex toy.

SHE sulks, she rebels, sex is then viewed as a chore.

HE is upset that his sex is cut off, and it all goes rapidly downhill from there.

 

Prince Charming married Cinderella because she was intelligent, fun, good, kind and beautiful NOT because he needed regular sex. It just doesn't fit in with the usual female narrative.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, I think both sides of the discussion on thieneed for sex or not depending on your gender are right. My own opinion about this is that both men and women need and benefit from sex. I have read on other forums where it says that regular sex is good for womens' health. I guess if you read about the number of sexless marriage you will find that quite a few are initiated by women. So I don't think that one can stereotype the requirement or lack of it just based on gender.

 

As fate as Overtaxed is concerned the more I read his posts the more convinced I am getting that he is settling for his wife and waiting in the wings till she finally comes put of her fog and decides to give thearriage a second chance. It seems to me that he is setting himself up for failure because his wife is not addressing her core issues and sweeping them under the rug is not going to solve the problem. If she has still not recognized the OM for the scoundrel that he is then there is little hope this marriage will be reestablished on a solid foundation. Something seems to me to be very wrong in the attitude that Overtaxed is displaying because he is not demanding that his wife show true remorse and really get down to working on her issues. The disrespect and betrayal of trust issues have not been addressed and everything hinges on that. Hope the OP is able to see what is best for him in the long term and work accordingly. Warm wishes to all.