Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Overtaxed]

OT, I get that the children thing is a big deal to her. I get that you also told her you did not want children.

 

I as a father can't really understand it but you are free to choose your course in life like everyone is.

 

But let me tell you something about being alone. I am not a good looking as I used to be, I have a couple of extra pounds, but continuing to lose some weight, I am 52. I have a great job, I am a very confident man, and I am still one of the local hot musicians.

 

Dude, I literally have women hanging off of me. Men in our age group that have been around, have a few bucks, and know how to treat a woman in the bed room, have so many options it is kind of ridiculous.

 

Since I have decided to divorce, I am having more fun than a pig in slop.

 

With your money, you will have zero trouble finding a wonderful woman...

 

Thank you for this. It's not what I want, but it is good to hear that there's a good life on the other side of it. I have no doubt that finding "another" woman would be easy, and I'm sure, knowing me, that I'd go on a bit of "bender" coming out of this relationship. When I'm angry at her, that part sounds oh so wonderful. Hopefully I don't have to find out how wonderful, but I do appreciate the kind words

[Overtaxed]

The chances of her having children, may or may not be pretty slim but the fact that YOU hold the key to her happiness, and the fact that YOU do not want to attempt the IVF and that YOU get to make that decision FOR her, is the huge bone of contention here and no doubt the source of most if not all of the resentment on her part.

BY Oh so logically minimising her chances of success and refusing the IVF, whilst time marches ever onward, YOU will very likely get what you want ie no kids and SHE ends up bitter and twisted as all her opportunities to have kids have over the years been blocked by you.

YOU want to keep her around as you do not want to be alone, but that is a selfish way of thinking. Here you have a woman desperate to have children and YOU have no doubt "manipulated" her into staying as by your own admission, she is a woman who is easily manipulated and you are adept at "game playing"..

 

SHE no doubt does not want to leave her marriage as YOU have also tied her up in a harsh and rigid prenup too, so she is effectively trapped.

She may on the one hand "love" you as her husband, but I guess she seriously "hates" you at the same time.

 

 

I guess part of the reason your wife went looking for an affair is this. She had/has no control in this marriage, you apparently hold all the cards in this marriage, so she rebelled.

 

Now this makes a tremendous amount of sense. Thank you for this post, I'm going to go through it point by point to respond because, IMHO, this is the "crux" of the issue.

 

The chances of her having children, may or may not be pretty slim but the fact that YOU hold the key to her happiness, and the fact that YOU do not want to attempt the IVF and that YOU get to make that decision FOR her, is the huge bone of contention here and no doubt the source of most if not all of the resentment on her part.

 

The chances ARE pretty slim. There's no "may or may not be". I'm almost 0 sperm count, and, even with a healthy partner, she's around the 10% chance per cycle of IVF range for success. However, my response to this; if kids were the only thing that would make her happy, she married the wrong man. And I told her that years before we were married. I told her that right before we got engaged. I told her that weeks before the wedding. I don't know how much clearer I could have been; but, she had to know walking down the aisle that "he probably can't have and doesn't want kids". I don't "hold the key" to her happiness anymore than she holds the key to my happiness if I decided that I wanted to sleep with women outside the relationship. I signed up for this (an exclusive relationship) with open eyes, she signed up for the "probably no kids" thing with open eyes as well. Does she resent me for it? Yes, I know she does. But is it fair? Absolutely not, it would be like me resenting her for getting married to me when there's a good looking woman at Starbucks making eyes at me. This is what you signed up for. You knew it going in. Nothing changed except that we learned (from doctors) the actual extent of our problems. I never promised her IVF (in fact, I promised her the opposite, that it was not something I was willing to do).

 

Does any of this matter? IDK. If your mad about something, even if it's not logical, you're still just as mad, right? But, in my mind, I did everything I could to make this clear to her ahead of time, and, as I mentioned before, was willing to give her a very easy and reasonable divorce (without using the prenup to beat her death) if she wanted to go pursue this dream. We even talked about it (while the A was going on it turns out, but, we did talk about it) and what it would look like. I wasn't being unreasonable or unfair; I wanted her to have a good life and find someone to have kids with her if that's what she wanted. I didn't understand it, because, as mentioned above, the chances of it happening with anyone are/were very slim, but I wasn't going to hold it against her.

 

SHE no doubt does not want to leave her marriage as YOU have also tied her up in a harsh and rigid prenup too, so she is effectively trapped.

She may on the one hand "love" you as her husband, but I guess she seriously "hates" you at the same time.

 

See above, I was willing and we discussed D, and I told her what it would look like; it was basically as if the prenup never existed. Now, of course, the situation has changed, if she leaves or I leave, I'm going to use the prenup to protect myself as much as possible. But that was not the case before this happened.

 

On a side note (donning flame suit).. Why do the less wealthy spouses feel that they are entitled to their spouses income on the way out the door? That's all my prenup does, it protects me from alimony and establishes the ability to develop individual accounts. Is that really "harsh"? Why is the default "I leave, you get to pay for me to leave and then pay for me to live a good life"? If I was the less wealthy partner, I'd sign the prenup my W and I have without a 2nd thought. It's FAIR, you share everything when we are together, if we leave, you stop sharing in my income, just like I stop sharing in your intimacy and other things you bring to the marriage. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone in this, but how is fair "I cheated, now I'm taking 1/2 of everything and a good chunk of your salary for the next X years"?

 

She's not trapped. She's only trapped if she wants to keep living this lifestyle. That is very different.

 

I guess part of the reason your wife went looking for an affair is this. She had/has no control in this marriage, you apparently hold all the cards in this marriage, so she rebelled.

 

This is the part that I think is dead on the money. But I don't hold "all the cards", I just hold more than most wronged spouses on here because of the prenup. She has always had access to every bank account and every dollar we make. The move to a new home that I referenced? That was her decision (and it's 500 miles away from where we live now, so a big decision!). She picks out her own car, she works the job she wants to work. I don't have control over any of those things. The only thing I really do have control over is the fact that if she leaves, she gets less than most would and my own body; I'm not willing to go on hormones to get a higher sperm count. I'm also not willing to pay for IVF cycles (so I guess that does count as controlling her, because she can't afford it without someone who has a big income). So, I think you ARE dead on the money as to how she'd tell you she feels, but, I also think that it's 99% BS.

[MJJean]

Tell me about it, I wonder the same thing about my wife's AP. I'm richer, younger, better looking, probably smarter (although, to be fair, he's pretty smart), and, of course, not married to someone else with a few young kids. It's just amazing to me that she'd pick him. Maybe she just wanted to be with someone who's ego could fit into a single zip code? (this is a joke, I hope someone reading this laughs; I feel like all of us in this forum need it!). In some ways it's good, because I'm not physically intimidated by him; if the guy was incredibly good looking/built or really rich, it would be harder; that's for sure. But it does make you wonder about the heart; where does it get it's radar? Because it sure seems off in a lot of cases!

 

 

 

 

See, you're looking at this with logic and thinking "I have more money, a more youthful appearance, and I am an intelligent man. Why?" and the answer isn't to be found in purely logical thinking.

 

Money is money. It can't buy happiness and it doesn't keep you warm at night nor does it make you go OOOOOH in bed. I theory,more money is better. In practice, not necessarily. Many of us would rather be poor as church mice and with a partner who shares our hopes and dreams than to be financially well off and in a relationship with someone who doesn't.

 

Physical appearance is but a small part of attraction. And, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen some fugly men snag gorgeous women simply because they have a chemical, physical, attraction to each other and both want the same things in terms of lifestyle and family.

 

Youth is nice, but many women like an older, seasoned, man.

 

Intelligence isn't a substitute for warmth, compassion, empathy, and desire. "Smart enough" will often do if everything else is there.

 

She desperately wants a child/children. He has children. Of course she finds him attractive! He is a family man and she wants a family man.

Edited February 4, 2017 by MJJean

[Overtaxed]

See, you're looking at this with logic and thinking "I have more money, a more youthful appearance, and I am an intelligent man. Why?" and the answer isn't to be found in purely logical thinking.

 

Money is money. It can't buy happiness and it doesn't keep you warm at night nor does it make you go OOOOOH in bed. I theory,more money is better. In practice, not necessarily. Many of us would rather be poor as church mice and with a partner who shares our hopes and dreams than to be financially well off and in a relationship with someone who doesn't.

 

Physical appearance is but a small part of attraction. And, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen some fugly men snag gorgeous women simply because they have a chemical, physical, attraction to each other and both want the same things in terms of lifestyle and family.

 

Youth is nice, but many women like an older, seasoned, man.

 

Intelligence isn't a substitute for warmth, compassion, empathy, and desire. "Smart enough" will often do if everything else is there.

 

She desperately wants a child/children. He has children. Of course she finds him attractive! He is a family man and she wants a family man.

 

See, this is where logic gets in the way for me. Quite a family man indeed, sleeping with my wife while his wife is home with the kids he so professes to love. He has a vasectomy, there's no chance of him getting anyone pregnant. I'm sure he talked to her about "having kids together" because he would have quickly discovered that as a big missing gap in our relationship; but, it was just talk. He'd never be able to fund it, or even physically do it himself, even if he wanted to (after his wife financially ripped him apart, as he deserves, in divorce court and child support payments). Sure, it's great to bed women who want kids using these kinds of lines; but, the rational part of me just thinks "Come on", how could you not see this for what it was (a bunch of lines thrown together).

[elaine567]

but, the rational part of me just thinks "Come on", how could you not see this for what it was (a bunch of lines thrown together).

 

She feels starved of affection and love and a man who truly understands her, so she is like a dry sponge and any moisture offered is soaked up avidly.

 

I guess this was most likely an exit affair, you had already discussed divorce, so the quality of the man and his suitability as a long term partner is often moot.

All he needs to be is supportive and give her enough courage to leave her bad marriage. He is the "bridge" and is often disposable and discarded once she is on the right path and she finds her feet again.

She may be more upset about losing his support, and her plans to "escape" being scuppered, than anything that resembles "love".

 

Also being a "family man" is often a highly attractive trait to a woman. Such men often exude empathy, sharing, caring and kindness, traits that men who shun kids often lack.

Those men who are adamant they NEVER want kids, can tend to replace those attractive "family man" type traits with ambition, rationality, logical thinking, a love of money and practicality - not nearly so attractive to most women, especially to a woman who is desperate to have children.

Edited February 4, 2017 by elaine567
typo

[AnneP]

To be clear: Your wife didn't inform you that she was going to a fertility doctor, and had you go with her knowing that you were clueless about what her intentions were? Why didn't you leave her THEN?

 

You've agreed to not have kids and she drags you in to a place where you have to give a sample and you were never prepared or warned about this? This wasn't even discussed prior?

 

That is SHADY AF!!!!

 

So manipulative. She purposely put you in an awkward position where you couldn't refuse.

 

I'm sorry, but I disagree with anyone who thinks you're wrong for not "giving her kids."

 

Children are a lifetime commitment. You never sleep the same again. Ever. You lose sleep while they're infants and toddlers, so you don't have much of a life outside of your children until they start school. Yes, you can do things, but not the kind of life you had before. You mentioned traveling extensively. My husband and I did that. Trips to the Caribbean, Europe, all over the U.S., etc. Once we had our first all of those things stopped. We did try a trip to Hawaii when my daughter turned one and it was a nightmare. Everything was awful from the plane trip, to the beach, to where we stayed. You never are the same once you have kids and your life is never the same. As my friends and I joke: You never sleep the same again, even when they're in college. You then worry what they're doing, are they making poor choices, bad grades, drugs, etc.

 

I have a 9 (just turned 9) year old who is an angel. Never lies, makes good grades, and is a great kid. Found out recently she's been doing things on the internet she shouldn't be doing (chatting with strangers through apps.)

 

She found a way around not being able to access you tube and has been going through her browser.

 

This kind of crap. Have to worry about your child being in danger. Things aren't like they were when we were growing up. We were riding bikes and playing outside at that age. Our parents explained to stay away from strangers, but it's a different world now. We have talked to her so many times about this and she has gone behind our backs and LIED to our faces.

 

If you do not want kids, do NOT have them. You will not be a good parent and will resent her.

 

We discussed both pregnancies and planned both. We both wanted kids and always knew it would be one or two. Never more. Does your wife realize she cannot take certain medication while pregnant? I mean she's on antidepressants. Does she know this? Obviously she could choose to adopt, but your life is going to change in ways no one can explain to you. You have to experience it for yourself.

 

We both love our kids. We wanted this, however they do require A LOT of time and attention. Are you ready to start losing sleep (newborns wake every 1-2 hours and need to be fed/changed/etc) like you cannot imagine. Are you ready to trade in your vacations for little league games, soccer practice, etc.? You are the only one who knows, but from what you've said here it doesn't sound like it.

 

I would have never trusted her again after the fertility meeting. That's insanity to me. When you're married children is something that should be discussed prior. And considered for years - unless you have an unexpected pregnancy.

 

I have never taken birth control in my life and was able to only get pregnant when I wanted to. Women are so shady sometimes. I know so many who just stopped taking their birth control without telling their spouse. If your wife could easily get pregnant, I imagine she would have done this to you as well.

 

This reminds me of my brother's ex, manipulative wife who went out and bought her own engagement ring after he said: I could see myself spending my life with you. He never proposed. He allowed her to get away with that and a year later she told him they "had to get married because her dad wasn't paying for her college anymore." That was another lie. So he agreed to marry her at the court. No wedding. Nothing. He shows up on the day they were supposed to get married and her entire family (including cousins/friends/etc.) were there and no one from his family knew. He said he regrets marrying her. He said the manipulative move with the engagment ring should have been his sign. They now have two kids together and are divorced. He finally left her, but he now has an autistic child who is low-functioning and will need long-term care once he reaches adulthood. There are SO many considerations with having kids. Please think this through.

 

My brother went to a big 10 school and graduated with a degree in computer science and later went to another top school for his MBA. Seems like the more intelligent you are, the more these kind of women manipulate you or exploit you - in my experience. Seen it many times as my H and other friends/family are in that line of work. Unfortunatey the more logical you are, you don't always see the common sense things. You don't always see the bad in people, and that is sadly the case here.

 

I don't feel sorry for her. She seems to be extremely manipulative from what you've told us.

 

I would leave. Let her have kids. Go screw a lot of women and then settle down.

 

Office Space: "What would you do if you had a million dollars?"

"I tell you what I'd do; two chicks at the same time"

 

That's what you should do. Move on.

Edited February 4, 2017 by AnneP

[wmacbride]

I like the idea of the lists, I'm going to bring that up with her tonight. It's kind of hard for me, because, my list could be really short; I was pretty happy with the way things were before the A with the exception of our sex life. So I don't have a ton of things I want to fix. She does, and it's going to be difficult because she's going to want much more from me than I from her in changes. But, that said, I do like the idea and am going to do that.

 

No, my wife is not well grounded and does not know herself well. I knew for a long time she was easily manipulated, and, if I'm honest with myself, I know I took advantage of that at times. But others in her life do it much worse, her parents manipulate her terribly through guilt, for example. Her employer does the same thing, they walk all over her because she just won't put her foot down. And, of course, that's exactly what the AP did to get her in bed, manipulated her to the point of ridiculousness and yet, it still worked. So no, she's not pragmatic at all, and she's always been "searching"; which is the best way I can put it, for something outside of herself. Family, friends, me, the AP, all of us seem to play a role in helping her define herself through our eyes. I'm the opposite, especially as an introvert, I don't define myself at all through how others see me; my problem is I don't like others to see me even a little bit. I "wear masks" around just about everyone in my life, presenting to them the person that I think they want me to be. The only people I'm not like that with are my wife and a few close family members (maybe a grand total of 10 people). Most people have no idea who I really am.

 

A couple of points.

In all your posts, your love for your wife comes across. Is a big part of her betrayal that she is one of the few people you feel you can open up to and take your mask off around, and she went and had an A?

I'm an introvert myself, and it takes along time for me to trust anyone and not be somewhat guarded around them. This makes it horribly painful when that trust is broken.

 

Also, I agree with the idea that she wants kids and , on some level, may really resent you for not wanting them. Have you ever asked her how she feels towards you about that?

 

If you are going to reconcile, as painful as it may be her issue sin the marriage will also need to be addressed, as otherwise, what's the point in reconciling if nothing changes?

[AnneP]

A couple of points.

In all your posts, your love for your wife comes across. Is a big part of her betrayal that she is one of the few people you feel you can open up to and take your mask off around, and she went and had an A?

I'm an introvert myself, and it takes along time for me to trust anyone and not be somewhat guarded around them. This makes it horribly painful when that trust is broken.

 

Also, I agree with the idea that she wants kids and , on some level, may really resent you for not wanting them. Have you ever asked her how she feels towards you about that?

 

If you are going to reconcile, as painful as it may be her issue sin the marriage will also need to be addressed, as otherwise, what's the point in reconciling if nothing changes?

 

I'm an introvert and can see what you mean here. Also, being a logical person I see only three outcomes here:

 

1) You reconcile, stay married and have kids. You'll regret it and resent her. She will resent you for not being the doting dad. You'll end up in divorce. You'll also be called "the sperm donor" and "weekend warrior" father when you never wanted to have kids. You'll end up paying emotionally and financially for life.

 

2) You reconcile, don't give her kids and she cheats again. This ends in divorce.

 

3) You leave, allow her to move on and fulfill her dream of having kids.

 

This biggest thing that needs consideration is: Children are innocent and deserve to be brought into a loving home. Having children out of guilt or obligation never saved any marriage and only hurt the kids. It's incredibly unfair and selfish to bring an innocent life into all of this mess.

Edited February 4, 2017 by AnneP

[dreamingoftigers]

See, you're looking at this with logic and thinking "I have more money, a more youthful appearance, and I am an intelligent man. Why?" and the answer isn't to be found in purely logical thinking.

 

Money is money. It can't buy happiness and it doesn't keep you warm at night nor does it make you go OOOOOH in bed. I theory,more money is better. In practice, not necessarily. Many of us would rather be poor as church mice and with a partner who shares our hopes and dreams than to be financially well off and in a relationship with someone who doesn't.

 

Physical appearance is but a small part of attraction. And, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen some fugly men snag gorgeous women simply because they have a chemical, physical, attraction to each other and both want the same things in terms of lifestyle and family.

 

Youth is nice, but many women like an older, seasoned, man.

 

Intelligence isn't a substitute for warmth, compassion, empathy, and desire. "Smart enough" will often do if everything else is there.

 

She desperately wants a child/children. He has children. Of course she finds him attractive! He is a family man and she wants a family man.

 

My ex was better "on paper" and healthier.

 

But there is something practically addictive about my husband.

I just look at him and it's like "give me a piece of that obese cranky man wearing shorts and boxers in the middle of the day." Idk why and I don't really care why. It just is.

[Chaparral]

Did your wife actually tell you she knew the om had a vasectomy?

[Chaparral]

You keep talking about how she knew what she was getting into like that would matter now. You seem to not understand the difference between male logic and female logic.

[AnneP]

You keep talking about how she knew what she was getting into like that would matter now. You seem to not understand the difference between male logic and female logic.

 

Logic is logic. Females don't have "different logic." They act more on emotions but logic is just logic.

 

She thought she could change his mind. That's not logic. That's being hopeful. I'm sorry but I think he needs to leave her and feel he has done nothing to deserve this treatment.

 

He needs to separate all of their issues from the affair. She was wrong. She needed to communicate and didn't. She tried to manipulate him period.

 

For example: We always agreed on no more than 2. My husband really would have been happy with 1, but knew I wanted 1-2. I wanted to wait a few years or more in between kids. I was training for a triathlon and in the best shape of my life when he told me: if you want a second child it's now or never. I cried, was angry, etc., but agreed to do it then because that was the compromise. I never did the triathlon because I got pregnant, but I knew that was my choice in the end.

 

I have no regrets when it comes to our children. I made a sound and logical decision as did my husband. Seems like OT was f***ed from the start. Not fair.

[Dub]

honestly mate you should just end the marriage

[AnneP]

Did your wife actually tell you she knew the om had a vasectomy?

 

I wondered the same thing. I wondered if she was trying to get knocked up or who knows. I don't believe she's being honest about this entire situation.

 

OT: I remember you saying that you asked her where the condom came from and she had a "ah ha" moment or whatever. I call bull****. She was trying to work out a lie in her head. I absolutely believe they had unprotected sex and she didn't want to admit to that... and that is one of the many reasons you need to do STD testing.

[AnneP]

Let's talk logic...

 

Look back into time and ask yourself if you would marry this woman today. Knowing what you know now. A lot of us have to consider children and other factors, but knowing what she's done, would you stay with her?

 

I think we all know the answer.

 

I would make a clean break. Now.

 

If you want to try to work the marriage out later down the road, fine. You hold the cards. She betrayed you. She continues to make excuses (blame-shift) for her betrayal. Nothing excuses what she has done. Nothing.

[MJJean]

See, this is where logic gets in the way for me. Quite a family man indeed, sleeping with my wife while his wife is home with the kids he so professes to love. He has a vasectomy, there's no chance of him getting anyone pregnant. I'm sure he talked to her about "having kids together" because he would have quickly discovered that as a big missing gap in our relationship; but, it was just talk. He'd never be able to fund it, or even physically do it himself, even if he wanted to (after his wife financially ripped him apart, as he deserves, in divorce court and child support payments). Sure, it's great to bed women who want kids using these kinds of lines; but, the rational part of me just thinks "Come on", how could you not see this for what it was (a bunch of lines thrown together).

 

He doesn't need to have kids with her. He already has kids. Presumably, he'd be getting 50-50 custody in a divorce and your wife would have a ready made family that includes young step-children. Bonus: the kids would only be there half the time and the other half she and her man would be free to do as they please.

 

It really is a long story, but I got pregnant as a teenager due to an interaction between my Pill and some antibiotics I had to take for a lung infection. I "did the right thing" and married the father. It was a disaster. I loathed him. He was physically, emotionally, and financially abusive. He had affairs, I had affairs. Finally, 6 years and another child in, I met and fell in love with the man I have shared my life with for the past 17 years, 14 of those years married.

 

I remember friends and family telling me my AP was just feeding me lines, he would never leave his cushy upper middle class existence to come live with someone like me from the wrong side of the tracks. He was 24 and childless, for Pete's sake! It would be insane to think he'd tie himself to another man's legal wife and her 6 and 1 year old daughters, etc. etc. I loved him, he said and demonstrated he loved me, and I ignored my friends and family to take a leap of faith.

 

I am the exception to the rule here. Most affairs don't end in a happy long term and still going strong marriage. However, quite a lot of women in affairs think they, too, will be the exception.

 

I'm totally making a guess here, but it makes sense that in your wife's mind all she has to do is get her AP to leave his wife and marry her to have the family she wants. Yes, he cheated on his wife, but of course he'd never do that to her. He truly loves her. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

My ex was better "on paper" and healthier.

 

But there is something practically addictive about my husband.

I just look at him and it's like "give me a piece of that obese cranky man wearing shorts and boxers in the middle of the day." Idk why and I don't really care why. It just is.

:laugh:

 

I nearly choked on my coffee!

 

I tell DH all the time that he's my drug and I am addicted to him. He's 6 ft 1 in, weighs about 260, spends a lot of time when he's not at work lounging around in jammie pants, and he has back hair. Yet, even after 17 years, I think he is the hottest thing since the sun. Go figure, eh?

[AnneP]

I know you're desperately trying to save your marriage at this point. She's going to have a real difficult time adopting. I can say this with 100% certainty as I have had to help people (medically speaking) get an adoption. Her being on A/D is pretty much going to remove that possibility. I'm just throwing this out there if you want more stuff to hold over her head. Honestly, I would just let it all go. It's a hard pill to swallow, but you need to think about things.

 

You'll find someone compatible. I have a younger sibling who never wanted kids and is in her mid 30's and still doesn't. You can find women out there who have the same dreams as you do.

[WilyWill]

So she intentionally lied to you about the fertility clinic. Then for years afterwards, she lied about the fact that she lied, so that she could manipulate you into feeling bad.

 

Just another strike against this woman who brings nothing to your marriage. File for divorce and find a good woman who will appreciate you.

[knitwit]

Overtaxed, you are getting tons of food for thought here.

 

I don't know you or wife, of course. I do know lots of women, myself included, who have had IVF. My husband and I were successful, even though we were "geriatric" in terms of pregnancy.

 

I am also a foster parent. Quite a lot of foster parents are infertile (including many single foster parents).

 

Lastly, I know many people who adopted and/or are adoptees.

 

You continually come back the thought that your wife has a very slim chance of becoming a parent- this is true, biologically. This is a fact that you know well.

 

However, you follow that thought up with the idea that since she is not likely to become a parent biologically, it is clear that her best bet is to stay with you. What would be in it for her, if she left you, when there is slim-to-no chance of having her dream come true?

 

I respectfully suggest that you reconsider the 2nd part of your thought process. I understand your logic. However, the desire to be a parent is just as unpredictable and unrelated to to logic as any other strong desire. It is primal.

 

Women who have the strong desire to be a parent will go to any number of lengths to achieve this. There are options, if one isn't tied to the idea of having a biological child. And most infertile women will gladly, without even blinking, accept a child not related to them biologically to adopt and/or foster.

 

If you are in the US, I disagree that her chances of becoming an adoptive parent are small, single or married, if she is willing to adopt out of the foster care system or look internationally.

 

I personally know women who divorced and became single foster parents (several of them who ended up adopting.) They fell into a lower socioeconomic strata by divorcing, but they were able to support themselves. This allowed them to be foster parents.

 

I'm not saying that your wife is a woman who would want to go to that extreme. I believe your wife loves you. (It is clear that you love your wife.)

My goal in posting is simply to nudge you a bit on this issue. She might not be able to have a biological child, but it doesn't stop the yearning. It doesn't stop the lack of purpose in a goal that runs so deeply. She will likely not be able to put it into words to explain to you.

 

As a person who has lived in the "Couple that Can't Have Kids and Wants Them" realm, I truly feel for your wife. She might want to stay with you and at the same time, struggle to get over the resentment that you are not willing to do anything to have kids in the way that she likely is willing. She might want the idea of staying with you to be obvious, a slam-dunk given her inability to bear children; but deep inside, she might not feel like it is obvious. She might feel desperately that there has to be something more she can try. Since you don't want kids, you are not an "all in" partner for her on these possible endeavors. (And I don't believe you should go "all in" if you truly don't want to have kids.)

 

I want to be really clear here that when I say that women/couples are willing to 'do anything', I am speaking of IVF, ART, adoption, foster care, etc. All of them are hard, expensive, risky. I am not speaking of anything illegal. But I mean they are willing to bend over backwards, spend lots of money, go through highly intrusive exams, questions, open their lives to the legal systems...all sorts of financial, emotional, spiritual hardships.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out to you. Things to consider.

[AnneP]

So she intentionally lied to you about the fertility clinic. Then for years afterwards, she lied about the fact that she lied, so that she could manipulate you into feeling bad.

 

Just another strike against this woman who brings nothing to your marriage. File for divorce and find a good woman who will appreciate you.

 

Yes. This. She was betraying him way before she stepped out. Maybe I think way too much like a man, but this was inhertly wrong.

[AnneP]

Overtaxed, you are getting tons of food for thought here.

 

I don't know you or wife, of course. I do know lots of women, myself included, who have had IVF. My husband and I were successful, even though we were "geriatric" in terms of pregnancy.

 

I am also a foster parent. Quite a lot of foster parents are infertile (including many single foster parents).

 

Lastly, I know many people who adopted and/or are adoptees.

 

You continually come back the thought that your wife has a very slim chance of becoming a parent- this is true, biologically. This is a fact that you know well.

 

However, you follow that thought up with the idea that since she is not likely to become a parent biologically, it is clear that her best bet is to stay with you. What would be in it for her, if she left you, when there is slim-to-no chance of having her dream come true?

 

I respectfully suggest that you reconsider the 2nd part of your thought process. I understand your logic. However, the desire to be a parent is just as unpredictable and unrelated to to logic as any other strong desire. It is primal.

 

Women who have the strong desire to be a parent will go to any number of lengths to achieve this. There are options, if one isn't tied to the idea of having a biological child. And most infertile women will gladly, without even blinking, accept a child not related to them biologically to adopt and/or foster.

 

If you are in the US, I disagree that her chances of becoming an adoptive parent are small, single or married, if she is willing to adopt out of the foster care system or look internationally.

 

I personally know women who divorced and became single foster parents (several of them who ended up adopting.) They fell into a lower socioeconomic strata by divorcing, but they were able to support themselves. This allowed them to be foster parents.

 

I'm not saying that your wife is a woman who would want to go to that extreme. I believe your wife loves you. (It is clear that you love your wife.)

My goal in posting is simply to nudge you a bit on this issue. She might not be able to have a biological child, but it doesn't stop the yearning. It doesn't stop the lack of purpose in a goal that runs so deeply. She will likely not be able to put it into words to explain to you.

 

As a person who has lived in the "Couple that Can't Have Kids and Wants Them" realm, I truly feel for your wife. She might want to stay with you and at the same time, struggle to get over the resentment that you are not willing to do anything to have kids in the way that she likely is willing. She might want the idea of staying with you to be obvious, a slam-dunk given her inability to bear children; but deep inside, she might not feel like it is obvious. She might feel desperately that there has to be something more she can try. Since you don't want kids, you are not an "all in" partner for her on these possible endeavors. (And I don't believe you should go "all in" if you truly don't want to have kids.)

 

I want to be really clear here that when I say that women/couples are willing to 'do anything', I am speaking of IVF, ART, adoption, foster care, etc. All of them are hard, expensive, risky. I am not speaking of anything illegal. But I mean they are willing to bend over backwards, spend lots of money, go through highly intrusive exams, questions, open their lives to the legal systems...all sorts of financial, emotional, spiritual hardships.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out to you. Things to consider.

 

Yeah, without saying too much I grew up in a foreign country - even though I am American by birth and heritage. My dad took a job overseas in Asia and that is where I was raised.

 

Have a good friend from that country who jumped through all the hoops to become a resident here in the U.S. and his wife had pregnancy issues. He paid through the nose to get her pregnant twice. She left him now that she has kids and he's ****ed for life.

[AnneP]

So she intentionally lied to you about the fertility clinic. Then for years afterwards, she lied about the fact that she lied, so that she could manipulate you into feeling bad.

 

Just another strike against this woman who brings nothing to your marriage. File for divorce and find a good woman who will appreciate you.

 

Not only did she lie, but SHE chose to put him into a completely uncomfortable situation where he was the ******* if he walked out.

 

Seen it. It's shady.

 

Find it almost comical that he thinks he's protecting her - because she's "so vulnerable" .... ?

 

She is playing him like a fiddle

He needs to drop her like a bad habit.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, all those people trying to convince OT to drop his wife to dump his wife are flogging a dead horse in my opinion. Early on in this thread I had figured out that the thrust of OT's endeavours were to reconcile with his wife even if that meant bending backwards to accommodate her. Whatever may be his reasons for doing and thinking so I guess we should respect his position as it pertains to his own peculiar( particular) situation. He has his reasons and one cannot dispute those. Right in the beginning I had posted that there were so many points on which the two of them were incompatible and these points of incompatibility were serious enough to justify a divorce after his wife's infidelity. However, t all seemed like water on duck's back for OT, which is when I realized that he had made up his mind to reconcile, come what may. From that point onward I stopped trying to do so and in fact started offering advice more conducive to helping him in other ways.

 

I guess in light of the above we should all try and give him the kind of advice that will help him on his chosen path.

 

OT if I may ask, does your wife have healthy ovaries? I always thought that eggs required for IVF were taken directly from the ovaries and if that be the case, if her ovaries are healthy then there should not really be a problem with recovering good eggs from her. As far as you are concerned, if you have a low sperm count then I think there is a procedure where the clinics use gyro separators for separating healthy sperm from defective ones and concentrating them for use. There is also the procedure where, if you two are willing, then a donor's sperm is mixed in, keeping in mind that the donor is similar to you in skin,hair and eye colour and of the same ethnicity as you. Also IVF procedures may be cheaper in some developing countries by a very large margin. As such you and your wife could take a tourist trip to such countries and get the procedure carried out, all for less than what it would cost you in the US. This is just a thought in case you think that this is very important for your wife. Hope you are doing well otherwise. Warm wishes.

[Overtaxed]

Not only did she lie, but SHE chose to put him into a completely uncomfortable situation where he was the ******* if he walked out.

 

Seen it. It's shady.

 

Find it almost comical that he thinks he's protecting her - because she's "so vulnerable" .... ?

 

She is playing him like a fiddle

He needs to drop her like a bad habit.

 

Oh it's shady as h*ll! I can't even imagine how she was able to do this other than re-writing the history in her mind; nobody could do that to another person for years if they really didn't think they were in the right, the guilt would eat them alive.

 

Is she playing me like a fiddle? I'm not sure, to be completely honest. If so, to what end? We all agree with was an exit affair. If we don't R, I'm not going to be any more generous at the D than I would have been at the discovery of the A. So I'm not sure why she'd go through the "playing" here, but, again, this might be because I think very rationally; perhaps she wants to alleviate some guilt?

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed, you are getting tons of food for thought here.

 

I don't know you or wife, of course. I do know lots of women, myself included, who have had IVF. My husband and I were successful, even though we were "geriatric" in terms of pregnancy.

 

I am also a foster parent. Quite a lot of foster parents are infertile (including many single foster parents).

 

Lastly, I know many people who adopted and/or are adoptees.

 

You continually come back the thought that your wife has a very slim chance of becoming a parent- this is true, biologically. This is a fact that you know well.

 

However, you follow that thought up with the idea that since she is not likely to become a parent biologically, it is clear that her best bet is to stay with you. What would be in it for her, if she left you, when there is slim-to-no chance of having her dream come true?

 

I respectfully suggest that you reconsider the 2nd part of your thought process. I understand your logic. However, the desire to be a parent is just as unpredictable and unrelated to to logic as any other strong desire. It is primal.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out to you. Things to consider.

 

Appreciate it. We have discussed fostering and adoption. I'm not on board yet (honestly, I don't know enough) but it's not a "no" it's just a "I need to know more" as to my answer right now.

 

And, honestly, I do have to take issue with the pass that everyone seems to give women who want children, excusing all kinds of terrible behavior (poking holes in condoms, lying about the pill, stepping out for a partner who can get them pregnant, etc) under the guise of "it's a built in need for women". Yeah, I get it. Because I have something just like that. It's called the male sex drive, and, for some/most men, it's a burning, irrational desire that comes from deep inside of us and does not follow any logical rules. Does that fact make cheating "easier" for all the faithful wives on here? Of course not. We are called upon to control our base desires in society, including the desire to have sex and the desire to have children. I'm sorry, but the chorus of "You'll never understand what it's like for a woman who wants a child" that I hear all the time is so one sided.