Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Overtaxed]

Elaine

 

You make some really great points here. I always grow from hearing your POv. In this case however I do feel that it is the WW that has all the car washing to do. Yes she may have had reason to exit the M and move on but not to do what she did to OT and the M. I am just really challenged by the whole lack of either remorse or commitment to a decisive move, either to move on or to rebuild. OT, you've got an awful lot of patience and stamina. Kudos to you man!!

 

Or I have Stockholm syndrome (as has been suggested earlier).

 

And yes, exactly, the WW should be washing the cars, not me. But washing the cars doesn't do anything to show me she loves me; sex does.

 

I'm going to go on a bit of a rant here about sex drive in general. If you read the 5 Love Languages; all the rest of the them (other than sex) are things you can get from other people. Words of affirmation, acts of service, etc. All things it's perfectly acceptable in society to get from someone other than (friends, etc) your spouse. Sex is the only one of the languages that's exclusive, you can't get that anywhere but your wife/husband.

 

When I was younger, I used to love my sex drive. In college, it was just about the only thing I really enjoyed about myself. It was a blessing, I was so motivated by it to meet new people and have new experiences.

 

As I've gotten older, my viewpoint on it has dramatically changed. It's a curse, it really is. It's a need that only one person in the world can fill and, when they don't, everything else seems so lackluster. It makes my terribly venerable to other women stepping into my life and blowing it up by having an A. It makes me weak around my wife because she knows it's so important to me. It's a burden, and it may very well be one of the contributing factors to blowing up my marriage. Some days I really wish there was a pill I could take to make it stop.

 

Don't take this as "woe is me", yes, it is; but I love a lot of other aspects of myself. But man, a high sex drive really does have some negative ramifications on your day to day life.

[Overtaxed]

Ok but how do you think your wife would have rated it?

When did all this angry resentful venting with her friends start?

 

Wife's rating: 8-9 at the high, 3 at the low.

[wmacbride]

One quick addition.

 

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. My wife's love language is words of affirmation/acts of service. Imagine if I had cheated and my therapist recommended that I start to withhold all encouraging words to my wife and stop doing anything for her. I think that people forget that sex is the way that some people show and receive their love from others. My wife taking my car to be washed does nothing for me (love wise), I know where the car wash is and while I appreciate it, it's not an act of love to me. Me doing the reverse for her IS an act of love.

 

But, all that said, would you think is reasonable that I cut off all the ways my wife receives love after I'd been the WS in an A? I think people forget that sex is more than sex, especially for men.

 

Not intended to flame, just provide another perspective.

 

 

i'm not trying to flame you, but tis post is extremely troubling.

 

Sex may be your love language, but it's not hers, and because of that, she may feel fundamentally unloved.

 

A friend of mine and talked about this once, and she made a good point.

 

Sex is everywhere in pop culture, to a point that it has lost much of it's value to some when looked ta in terms of a bonding experience. Women are told sex is a huge drive for men, and it's become adulterated to a point that it's almost a "hobby" with little emotional meaning, or that is the impression we are given.

 

You own words indicate this, as you say how you had a lot of sexual experience before your wife, would admire and pick up women, etc. It's hard to believe that was an expression of love or affection between you and the women you were with. I'm not slamming you for that, just trying to present a different perspective. Add tot hat it can be painful for your wife, and from her point of view, it may not seem like a caring act of expression of emotional closeness.

 

I'm not saying you have done anything wrong at all, just trying to explain how you and she can look at the same situation very differently.

 

Have you ever explained to her how emotionally important it is to you, how for you, it takes the place of the spoken words of affection and love that don;t come so easily for you, not because you don't love her, but because it allows you to express the depth of your emotional in a way that words can't?

 

Again, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you sound very dismissive of the acts she does to show you she cares. They might not be things that matter that much to you, but to her, every time you dismiss her acts or give a half hearted thank you( which I hope you don't do) it can feel lie a stomp on the heart. Think of it is the feeling you would get f you were feeling really loving towards her and initiated sex and she either shot you down or just sort of laid there. It might well make you feel like cr@p and that she doesn't care.

 

 

In all honesty, the issue you two had in your marriage are not so much different form anyone else. It does sound like you do love her a lot, and I really do think she loves you too. Right now, she's not only trying to reconcile with you, but with herself too. The full weight of it all may not have hit her yet, as that comes with time. When it does, it's really going to hit her hard, and as incredibly unfair as it may sound, she's going to need your support.

[wmacbride]

Or I have Stockholm syndrome (as has been suggested earlier).

 

And yes, exactly, the WW should be washing the cars, not me. But washing the cars doesn't do anything to show me she loves me; sex does.

I'm going to go on a bit of a rant here about sex drive in general. If you read the 5 Love Languages; all the rest of the them (other than sex) are things you can get from other people. Words of affirmation, acts of service, etc. All things it's perfectly acceptable in society to get from someone other than (friends, etc) your spouse. Sex is the only one of the languages that's exclusive, you can't get that anywhere but your wife/husband.

 

When I was younger, I used to love my sex drive. In college, it was just about the only thing I really enjoyed about myself. It was a blessing, I was so motivated by it to meet new people and have new experiences.

 

As I've gotten older, my viewpoint on it has dramatically changed. It's a curse, it really is. It's a need that only one person in the world can fill and, when they don't, everything else seems so lackluster. It makes my terribly venerable to other women stepping into my life and blowing it up by having an A. It makes me weak around my wife because she knows it's so important to me. It's a burden, and it may very well be one of the contributing factors to blowing up my marriage. Some days I really wish there was a pill I could take to make it stop.

 

Don't take this as "woe is me", yes, it is; but I love a lot of other aspects of myself. But man, a high sex drive really does have some negative ramifications on your day to day life.

 

 

Your words actually make the point I was trying to, an far better.

 

In your wife's shoes, especially if she knows about your salad days when you were having lots of sex with different women, she may feel is just an urge to you and not much more, if you put aside the book for now ( which, by the way, I think is crap because most people are not so one dimensional that their expressions of love can be reduced to five categories).

 

Your wife doing things for you is how she is expressing her love for you, and I hope you haven't ignored that because it's not sex. If you have, each time was like a kick in the rear to her.

 

I'm not saying you have to start using her "love language", but just as you want her to understand and appreciate yours, I hope you do the same for her. Accept that you are different, and that her actions show you love.

 

btw, I think you sell yourself short, as you do use other love languages. The fact that you allowed her in and to see who you really are shows just how much you love and care for her, even more so than sex can. You allowed yourself to be vulnerable and emotional with her, and from what you say, that is a courtesy you extend to very few, and not even your friends can have earned that privilege. Have you told her that? Does she know just how deeply you love her?

[Overtaxed]

i'm not trying to flame you, but tis post is extremely troubling.

 

Sex may be your love language, but it's not hers, and because of that, she may feel fundamentally unloved.

 

A friend of mine and talked about this once, and she made a good point.

 

Sex is everywhere in pop culture, to a point that it has lost much of it's value to some when looked ta in terms of a bonding experience. Women are told sex is a huge drive for men, and it's become adulterated to a point that it's almost a "hobby" with little emotional meaning, or that is the impression we are given.

 

You own words indicate this, as you say how you had a lot of sexual experience before your wife, would admire and pick up women, etc. It's hard to believe that was an expression of love or affection between you and the women you were with. I'm not slamming you for that, just trying to present a different perspective. Add tot hat it can be painful for your wife, and from her point of view, it may not seem like a caring act of expression of emotional closeness.

 

I'm not saying you have done anything wrong at all, just trying to explain how you and she can look at the same situation very differently.

 

Have you ever explained to her how emotionally important it is to you, how for you, it takes the place of the spoken words of affection and love that don;t come so easily for you, not because you don't love her, but because it allows you to express the depth of your emotional in a way that words can't?

 

Again, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you sound very dismissive of the acts she does to show you she cares. They might not be things that matter that much to you, but to her, every time you dismiss her acts or give a half hearted thank you( which I hope you don't do) it can feel lie a stomp on the heart. Think of it is the feeling you would get f you were feeling really loving towards her and initiated sex and she either shot you down or just sort of laid there. It might well make you feel like cr@p and that she doesn't care.

 

 

In all honesty, the issue you two had in your marriage are not so much different form anyone else. It does sound like you do love her a lot, and I really do think she loves you too. Right now, she's not only trying to reconcile with you, but with herself too. The full weight of it all may not have hit her yet, as that comes with time. When it does, it's really going to hit her hard, and as incredibly unfair as it may sound, she's going to need your support.

 

No, not too harsh at all. And pretty much dead on the money. No, my wife doesn't (or didn't) know how sex to me was the emotional bonding experience. In her own words, she's said to me many times that she wanted it to be that for her too. But it's not; she gets a lot more out of me telling her she's beautiful than us having sex. And I was terribly remiss in this; to me, words are cheap, actions aren't. And I thought she saw compliments that way, but, from what's happened, and what I saw of the AP's communication to my wife, she doesn't. Those words have real meaning to her, and it's something I'm trying to fix immediately. I always thought nice things about her but never said them; they "ring hollow" to me, even if they are true, because I know so many people use compliments to get the other person to do something, rather than because they actually mean it.

 

Yes, I have been dismissive of the ways she shows me she loves me. And she's been the same to me. I don't; however, think the answer really lies in fixing that, I think the answer is to show the other person you love them in the way THEY want to get love. My wife loves compliments (I now know), so I will compliment her to make her feel loved. I love intimacy, so, hopefully, she will be more intimate with me to show me she loves me. I don't think the answer is to make the other person get love the way you want to give it, it's to make sure that the other person get's love the way they want to get it.

 

I'm sure I've given "half hearted" thank you's in the past. I know I have. And I'm going to work hard to make sure that instead of looking at the gift, I look at what the gift MEANS instead. That's where I've gone off track. And hopefully she will do the same, look at my desire for her not as a burden, but at what it means; that I love her and want to be with her, not just have sex with anyone.

[MJJean]

I always thought nice things about her but never said them; they "ring hollow" to me, even if they are true, because I know so many people use compliments to get the other person to do something, rather than because they actually mean it.

 

 

My wife loves compliments (I now know), so I will compliment her to make her feel loved. I love intimacy, so, hopefully, she will be more intimate with me to show me she loves me.

 

Re-read the bolded bit of what you wrote.

 

It doesn't matter if the compliment is sincere or not, you'd still be giving them in hopes of getting your wife to give you more sex. That is a covert contract. Thought I should point that out.

 

Upthread you said you thought maybe your wife's LD was perhaps caused by some "good girls don't like sex" childhood block or something. Have you any evidence of this?

 

It seems like you hope there is some block or trauma that can be fixed by counseling. The reality is that some people are simply not that into sex, no matter how good it may feel when they do have it. To some people, sex and orgasms are merely occasional pleasant diversions and nothing to be too fussed over. If your wife is one of those people, she's not broken, therefore cannot be "fixed".

 

She exchanged sex for verbal affirmations with her AP. What you seem to be looking to do is have the same arrangement with her.

Edited February 9, 2017 by MJJean

[Overtaxed]

Re-read the bolded bit of what you wrote.

 

It doesn't matter if the compliment is sincere or not, you'd still be giving them in hopes of getting your wife to give you more sex. That is a covert contract. Thought I should point that out.

 

Upthread you said you thought maybe your wife's LD was perhaps caused by some "good girls don't like sex" childhood block or something. Have you any evidence of this?

 

It seems like you hope there is some block or trauma that can be fixed by counseling. The reality is that some people are simply not that into sex, no matter how good it may feel when they do have it. To some people, sex and orgasms are merely occasional pleasant diversions and nothing to be too fussed over. If your wife is one of those people, she's not broken, therefore cannot be "fixed".

 

She exchanged sex for verbal affirmations with her AP. What you seem to be looking to do is have the same arrangement with her.

 

Also, could you tell us why your wife cannot conceive without medical intervention? I ask because it's entirely possible she has such low drive and experiences painful sex due to a medical condition.

 

I see what you're saying, however, what's the alternative? Leave and find someone actually "into" sex? I suppose that's an option, but, frankly, I'm not sure there are really that many women out there like that.

 

However, isn't think a case of learning how to talk to one another? My wife likes compliments, I like physical intimacy. I know other's have blasted the Love Languages book, but, do you really need to find someone with "your" language to be happy? If so, I suspect I'll be looking a long time. So, yes, I'm giving her more verbal affirmations in the hope she feels more loved. And, in turn, perhaps that leads to more sex. I'm not sure what else to do though; if that's what she needs, and sex is what I need.. Options?

 

Sure. Wife has endometriosis very severely. Her chances of getting pregnant, even with a normal partner, are very low. I have low sperm count; so, coupled with her endo, there's almost no chance of a natural conception. Also, we're both older, so it's already high risk given our ages.

 

She's told me that sex with the AP wasn't painful. So I've got to learn to take it easier; I never considered myself rough; but she's small and I need to make sure I'm not hurting her. As I mentioned before, we've been doing better on that front, more talking, less teeth gritting. I honestly had no idea that I was hurting her so much, she never said anything to me about it when we had sex in the past (except for certain positions hurting her a bit and wanting to move).

 

Final one, do I have any evidence that she has a "mental block"? No, I don't. But when you live with someone for 15 years, you start to get a picture as to how they view things. Sex is bad/dirty/shameful to her. IDK why, but it is. I thought being married would change that, but, it didn't. She's still embarrassed by her sexuality. So.. I can only think there's something deeper going on; mature women aren't typically embarrassed about sex with their husbands, are they?

[wmacbride]

Sincere compliments can go a long way, so long as they are heartfelt and true.

 

I can only base my guess on what will happen for you and your wife on your own words, but it sounds like you have a forgiving heart,and if you two can keoep working at it, you may well have a shot at reconciling and a happy marriage.

[CaliforniaGirl]

The thing that blows my mind about it is how much she enjoys sex (physically at least) once we do it. As I stated many pages ago, she easily orgasms and has never had a problem with getting a "few" out in really short period of time. And she seems to really like orgasms (who doesn't, right).

 

Is she faking? And then feeling guilty about faking, so she puts the whole thing off after each time, for as long as she possibly can?

[Overtaxed]

Is she faking? And then feeling guilty about faking, so she puts the whole thing off after each time, for as long as she possibly can?

 

No, I don't think so. If so, she's been faking for 15 years. But, honestly, I'm not thinking it's this. Without getting too graphic, it's pretty clear that she's really having orgasms. Also, we have and use toys; same reaction, fast and easy orgasms.

[CaliforniaGirl]

No, I don't think so. If so, she's been faking for 15 years. But, honestly, I'm not thinking it's this. Without getting too graphic, it's pretty clear that she's really having orgasms. Also, we have and use toys; same reaction, fast and easy orgasms.

 

I don't know...

 

But if you do, then okay.

 

It's probably neither here nor there as she seems to be open to sex with the other guy, so I think avoidance of sex entirely is off the table as a possibility.

 

I think you're trying to see what you want to see. I think you need to stop hoping for reasons and excuses that don't cast you in any sort of negative light...that is, if you want real change. Yes, she cheated, and not you (at least as far as we know and she knows) BUT unless she is literally a senseless sex beast, which it appears she is not (you wouldn't have been so dissatisfied with this issue in your marriage if so), then there was a reason (even if not "an excuse") she cheated. If you really want to repair things, IMO, you need to stop this distancing of yourself from any culpability whatsoever anywhere in your marriage...again, unless she truly IS just a bad, horrible person and you truly are a literal victim, in which case, for God's sake...leave. Find somebody better.

 

Just my $0.02. Because whatever "changes" you may manage to get her to make based on all this supposition and armchair psychology and intermittent reinforcement and making her read indictments against her character from strangers and so on, will be temporary. She WILL snap out of it, and run for the hills. You are not making permanent changes unless you really look at your marriage. Honestly. Period.

[elaine567]

Unfortunately, physical touch is my love language. If I don't have sex with her, and aren't intimate, I know I'll walk out the door.

 

She would me rather wash her car. Or tell her she looks great in the morning. But that's not really the point, none of those things help me feel close to her again. So, sure, I can give her all the words of affirmation that she can stand, but it's not going to make me feel loved; which, is in desperately short supply right now.

 

I'm not sure she's ever seen sex as "an act of love". Even with the AP, she said that after the first time or two, it was "back to a duty, more than a desire" (or something to that effect). And, knowing her, I believe it; she's always seen sex as a bit of a chore more than something she looks forward to, even very early in our relationship. The title of this thread, "Low sex partner", was not an exaggeration.

 

The thing that blows my mind about it is how much she enjoys sex (physically at least) once we do it. As I stated many pages ago, she easily orgasms and has never had a problem with getting a "few" out in really short period of time. And she seems to really like orgasms (who doesn't, right). So I just never got it; it's not a physical thing (besides pain during sex, but, I'd be happy having "sex sex" 1/10th the amount we do today and replacing that with other sexual acts), it has to be a mental thing. IMHO, it's a block from her childhood; "good girls don't like sex" or something to that effect. It's a mystery to me, that's for sure.

 

OK I can see that you can fling her a few words of affirmation around her beauty, intelligence and "kindness" maybe, and tell her you "love" the way she washed your car and took your clothes to the cleaners, to make her feel a lot better, that's fairly easy to do, BUT how on earth are you going to convert a woman who admits she doesn't like sex, as it is a chore, into doing it for you, in the way you want her to do it for you ie with love and enthusiasm?

Forget the "orgasms" as as sign she is having fun, I guess faking, with or without the toys. "Quick and easy" to get them out of the way as fast as possible and to please you.

 

Yes, she as a WW may "give in" to loads of sex, but that isn't sustainable long term and do you really want to keep having sex with a woman who would really rather be doing something else half the time and is in agony and gritting her teeth for the other half? Pain does not equal enjoyable sex, even if she is not in pain she still will be worried about when it will start again.

Big difference between you handing out a few well chosen words here and there, and her having to pretend she enjoys sex with you.

She may not have been aware of how much you value sex in the relationship, but it doesn't alter the fact she still doesn't seem to like it and told you that.

How is that really going to work long term?

She is humouring you atm as she "owes" you, but how long will that really last?

[Overtaxed]

I don't know...

 

But if you do, then okay.

 

It's probably neither here nor there as she seems to be open to sex with the other guy, so I think avoidance of sex entirely is off the table as a possibility.

 

I think you're trying to see what you want to see. I think you need to stop hoping for reasons and excuses that don't cast you in any sort of negative light...that is, if you want real change. Yes, she cheated, and not you (at least as far as we know and she knows) BUT unless she is literally a senseless sex beast, which it appears she is not (you wouldn't have been so dissatisfied with this issue in your marriage if so), then there was a reason (even if not "an excuse") she cheated. If you really want to repair things, IMO, you need to stop this distancing of yourself from any culpability whatsoever anywhere in your marriage...again, unless she truly IS just a bad, horrible person and you truly are a literal victim, in which case, for God's sake...leave. Find somebody better.

 

Just my $0.02. Because whatever "changes" you may manage to get her to make based on all this supposition and armchair psychology and intermittent reinforcement and making her read indictments against her character from strangers and so on, will be temporary. She WILL snap out of it, and run for the hills. You are not making permanent changes unless you really look at your marriage. Honestly. Period.

 

I really don't think I'm distancing myself from having some part in this. In fact, if you read through this entire thread (I know, get something to drink first and get comfortable), a lot of posters were telling me I was making this TOO much my fault. But, of course, there's blame on my side as well; I was doing things wrong, I was spending too much time away from home, I wasn't giving her what she needed emotionally. All true statements.

[Overtaxed]

OK I can see that you can fling her a few words of affirmation around her beauty, intelligence and "kindness" maybe, and tell her you "love" the way she washed your car and took your clothes to the cleaners, to make her feel a lot better, that's fairly easy to do, BUT how on earth are you going to convert a woman who admits she doesn't like sex, as it is a chore, into doing it for you, in the way you want her to do it for you ie with love and enthusiasm?

Forget the "orgasms" as as sign she is having fun, I guess faking, with or without the toys. "Quick and easy" to get them out of the way as fast as possible and to please you.

 

Yes, she as a WW may "give in" to loads of sex, but that isn't sustainable long term and do you really want to keep having sex with a woman who would really rather be doing something else half the time and is in agony and gritting her teeth for the other half? Pain does not equal enjoyable sex, even if she is not in pain she still will be worried about when it will start again.

Big difference between you handing out a few well chosen words here and there, and her having to pretend she enjoys sex with you.

She may not have been aware of how much you value sex in the relationship, but it doesn't alter the fact she still doesn't seem to like it and told you that.

How is that really going to work long term?

She is humouring you atm as she "owes" you, but how long will that really last?

 

Putting it that way, I have no idea. I'm asking honestly, what do you think? That someone like my WW is just not meant to be with a man? Or only with a man who doesn't like sex? Because, absent that, I'm really not sure what the other answer would be. What I'm trying to do is get her to a point where she enjoys sex, but.. Is it a lost cause? And don't read sex to be "sex", which, yes, can be painful for her. Read "sex" to be "sexual activity", which, in many cases, seems to be nothing but pleasurable for her (oral sex, mutual masturbation, etc).

 

I'm not attacking, I just don't know how to read what you wrote. Move on, find someone who enjoys sex and suggest my WW join a nunnery?

[BuddyX]

Sex should be last thing on the plate. The first question is; why is she not attracted to you. And don't ask her that question. You should already know the answer to that question.

 

Wether you stay or leave the M, you must at the very least fix yourself.

Edited February 9, 2017 by BuddyX
Grammar

[Overtaxed]

Sex should be last thing on the plate. The first question is; why is she not attracted to you. And don't ask her that question. You should already know the answer to that question.

 

Wether you stay or leave the M, you must at the very least fix yourself.

 

I really don't know. I have a couple of guesses though. I won't go through IVF with her and don't really want to have kids. And I'm a very "rational" person, I don't let my emotions though very much; I spend a lot of time thinking and then make a decision, trying to remove all emotion from that decision (when it's possible, here, of course, it's not). I also am pretty closed off to other people, I don't like spending time with others very much (I'm an introvert, and have to play an extrovert at work, so I'm exhausted of it when I get home and really just want to work on the house, work around the yard, ride my bike, etc). I know all these things bother her.

 

But, as to the actual question? I'm lost trying to find a single "real" answer that makes sense.

[CaliforniaGirl]

I really don't know. I have a couple of guesses though. I won't go through IVF with her and don't really want to have kids. And I'm a very "rational" person, I don't let my emotions though very much; I spend a lot of time thinking and then make a decision, trying to remove all emotion from that decision (when it's possible, here, of course, it's not). I also am pretty closed off to other people, I don't like spending time with others very much (I'm an introvert, and have to play an extrovert at work, so I'm exhausted of it when I get home and really just want to work on the house, work around the yard, ride my bike, etc). I know all these things bother her.

 

But, as to the actual question? I'm lost trying to find a single "real" answer that makes sense.

 

This all seems like a real answer to me...you two are not a good match. You've been trying to ignore these negatives and she's been trying to force herself to want this, probably due to other factors that have made her think she "should" be happy and you "should" be the perfect man, but...you're just not a good match. Unfortunately the years have only made these issues less tolerable, rather than softening them...until it came to this point.

 

It isn't just in bed that you two are having issues...you can see that yourself...you've just named a few key points right here.

[BuddyX]

Agree with Cali.

Face it, you settled. You married a woman who you wish would change.

Edited February 10, 2017 by BuddyX
Grammar

[Overtaxed]

Agree with Cali.

Face it, you settled. You married a woman who you wish would change.

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Do I wish we had a more sexual relationship (and have since the beginning of our relationship)? Yes, I do. So do many married men. I really didn't think that was all that "odd" about our relationship; come on, it's so common that every comedian in the world has a skit about women and headaches.

 

I think I made a very common mistake; I married a woman hoping she wouldn't change. And she married a man hoping to change him. But, again, this is something that's present in nearly every male/female relationship I've ever seen, so I'm not sure how that sets us apart from others.

 

On your first point, that's simply not true. While I might be settling to R and put our relationship back together, I most decidedly did not settle with I met her. She was what I wanted; not what I "could get". In fact, when I met her, I really wasn't all that interested in anything more than a casual relationship; I certainly wasn't looking for a wife.

[Overtaxed]

This all seems like a real answer to me...you two are not a good match. You've been trying to ignore these negatives and she's been trying to force herself to want this, probably due to other factors that have made her think she "should" be happy and you "should" be the perfect man, but...you're just not a good match. Unfortunately the years have only made these issues less tolerable, rather than softening them...until it came to this point.

 

It isn't just in bed that you two are having issues...you can see that yourself...you've just named a few key points right here.

 

I see what you're saying, but removing the IVF/kids thing from my list for a moment; I really don't see anything on my list that's all that unusual for a relationship. Lots of introverts/extroverts get together. Lots of men prefer solo hobbies while their wives prefer more group activities. Lots of men are less emotionally driven than their wives. So, yeah, if you look at those things you might say "You're not a good match" but I'd come back with "Who is?!". I don't know many couples where all those things are in line between the wife and husband.

 

I say this, because, in my heart, I truly think that the answer here is "kids". That's what blew up our relationship and made it possible for her to go down this road. And, if that's the case, that's the thing that I need to focus on to make my decision to stay/go. I can tell you 100's of other things that "might" be the problem, and, some of them are probably "problems", but not "the problem". IDK, maybe I'm look at this too simply, but I don't see anything else causing her this level of unhappiness in the marriage.

[Chaparral]

The bottom line seems to be she just doesn't love you. Would a woman that loves you do what she has done. What she has done has been done to get out of the marriage and punish you in the process. Of course she would never admit t it and it may even have been unconsciously done. But the golden rule is to pay no attention to what they say but what they do. Her actions have told you everything.

[Overtaxed]

The bottom line seems to be she just doesn't love you. Would a woman that loves you do what she has done. What she has done has been done to get out of the marriage and punish you in the process. Of course she would never admit t it and it may even have been unconsciously done. But the golden rule is to pay no attention to what they say but what they do. Her actions have told you everything.

 

Well, I certainly feel that way. In my reading, they even call something like this an "exit affair".

 

Here's what I don't get. On d-day, she came home, we sat down and talked. I told her, you have 3 options; divorce, reconcile or pretend to reconcile and carry on the affair. The 3rd option will leave the world smoking around her as I use all the evidence to burn down every relationship that I can, get them both fired, and use the prenup to walk away as financially whole as possible.

 

However, I let her know; if you want a D, I'll give it to you, I'll be fair (set aside much of the prenup) and we'll do it fast and with as few attorneys as possible. I further promised (and intend to keep that promise) that her secret will die with me; I'd never tell her family/friends/employer/etc what she did.

 

She wanted to R. And I've brought this up a few more times as we've gone through the process; look, I already bought a new home (nothing to do with the A), we can file the paperwork, I can leave to the new home, and this will all be over before the end of the month. You (my wife) can go on with the AP (or someone else, hopefully, please choose better than him!), you'll have our current house to live in until it sells, and then you can take your $$ from the sale and go buy or rent someplace else. Basically, set aside the entire affair and act as if this were just 2 people with different life goals who still love one another, but just can't make a M work.

 

The reason I did this is twofold. One, the LAST thing I want is my W to stay around and feel "trapped" or spend the rest of her life wishing she'd married someone else. I can't live with that, not for her, but, equally important, not for me either. The second, I want her to R because she wants to, not because she stands to have her life fall apart around her because of the actions I could take against her and the AP.

 

I've never cried to her, I've never begged her to stay. In fact, if anything, I've pushed her towards going, trying to make it "easier" to go than to stay. I do tell her I love her and I do tell her that I'm willing to try to work things out (because both of these things are true). I do make her feel guilty for the affair, but am very careful not to make her feel guilty about choosing to leave. But more than anything else, I'm trying to get her to make a decision, not based on fear of what I might do, but based on what she really wants.

 

So, I guess my question.. Why on earth pretend you want to stay or that your in love with your husband/wife under these circumstances? I guess maybe I don't understand, but if I was carrying on an A and wanted to leave and my wife came to me with these options, I'd think "Jackpot!" and use it as a "get out of jail free" card to explore my relationship with the AP.

[elaine567]

. I won't go through IVF with her and don't really want to have kids. .

 

Have you laid that out to her since you discovered her affair?

(Forget about what you said in the past, she obviously paid no attention to that.)

If you haven't had that discussion and said what you said above, then you need to do so in no uncertain terms, asap.

NO ifs, buts, maybes, no false hopes or fuzzy statements that can be misinterpreted.

If, after all that, she decides to stick with you, then you can institute the other changes and attempt reconciliation.

 

BUT if you are moving away 500 miles, with her still having the lingering hope that you are still somehow open to thinking about having kids, as part of "the changes" you will make to mend the marriage, then that is not fair to either of you.

YOU are moving to her "dream home" and unless you make your intentions very clear, even brutally clear, then I guess to her, her "dream home" will have kids in it...

If you then pull out the "no kids ever" card again, then where will that get you?

500 miles from home, with a resentful wife who will hate you even more...

[Tribble]

You seem to like to put things into boxes, especially with regards to women and men. Women are more emotional, not that into sex etc. Men need sex and aren't as emotional etc. This is simply not true. People are individual, regardless of gender.

 

On the love languages, I do think they are worth looking at. People give and receive love in different ways and it is important to understand the importance of this, as you have found out. Sure, they're 5 categories that explain a plethora of emotions, but it's a good place to start. But no language is more or less important than another. You say that physical touch is the only one you can get from a partner, that the other languages can be fulfilled by other people. But we don't want to feel that love from other people, we want to feel it from our partner. If our friend does a food shop for us (act of service), we aren't going to feel any more fulfilled in our relationships. You also equate physical touch to sex, which isn't right. It is touch of all kinds.

 

You also need to look at WHY these love languages speak to you and your wife. Why does she need to hear words of affirmation? This will help you to understand her more and make the words you say more meaningful rather than hollow like you feel now. My ex was words of affirmation. He needed to hear I wanted him and how great he was. That's because he was insecure and felt like he didn't deserve me. Showing him through sex and spending time with him (my love languages) wasn't enough, he needed verbal confirmation. It was a little uncomfortable at first but I accommodated him.

 

Giving and receiving love in a relationship is important. Some people aren't compatible in showing someone they love them in the right way. Sometimes people don't know why they feel unfulfilled. In their heads they know their partner loves them but they don't feel it. This is why I think the love languages are good because they help you to really think about it. You seem quite dismissive of her love language. Not having a go, just saying. You don't understand it and seem to place it below your own language. She similarly doesn't understand yours. She has tried to accommodate but it isn't working. I know you don't get why she doesn't like sex. But I like walking. When I do it, I have a great time. But I go once every couple of months and I really wouldn't want to do it twice or more a week.

 

Ultimately, she didn't feel loved. I'm sure she knew you loved her, but something was missing, which is why she went to the AP. He gave her something she was missing. She may not have even realised it was missing, but it may have been missing your entire relationship. The question is, can you both carry on without being able to show each other love in the way you understand? Stop comparing your relationship to others, it's only you two that matter here. There's no shame if you aren't compatible and can't make it work, it just is what it is.

[elaine567]

So, I guess my question.. Why on earth pretend you want to stay or that your in love with your husband/wife under these circumstances? I guess maybe I don't understand, but if I was carrying on an A and wanted to leave and my wife came to me with these options, I'd think "Jackpot!" and use it as a "get out of jail free" card to explore my relationship with the AP.

 

People do that all the time. The relationship with the AP is not usually quite enough to blow up the marriage and leave, or they just do not have the courage to leave, so it becomes a cake eater situation.

 

"I "love" my husband/wife (or I "tolerate" my spouse), BUT I love my work, my house, my kids, my status as a married person, my friends, my family, my pets, my garden, my church... I love the status quo, I want to stay married, but I want/"love"/need my AP too...I have a void in my life that I need the AP to fill."