Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Overtaxed]

You seem to like to put things into boxes, especially with regards to women and men. Women are more emotional, not that into sex etc. Men need sex and aren't as emotional etc. This is simply not true. People are individual, regardless of gender.

 

On the love languages, I do think they are worth looking at. People give and receive love in different ways and it is important to understand the importance of this, as you have found out. Sure, they're 5 categories that explain a plethora of emotions, but it's a good place to start. But no language is more or less important than another. You say that physical touch is the only one you can get from a partner, that the other languages can be fulfilled by other people. But we don't want to feel that love from other people, we want to feel it from our partner. If our friend does a food shop for us (act of service), we aren't going to feel any more fulfilled in our relationships. You also equate physical touch to sex, which isn't right. It is touch of all kinds.

 

You also need to look at WHY these love languages speak to you and your wife. Why does she need to hear words of affirmation? This will help you to understand her more and make the words you say more meaningful rather than hollow like you feel now. My ex was words of affirmation. He needed to hear I wanted him and how great he was. That's because he was insecure and felt like he didn't deserve me. Showing him through sex and spending time with him (my love languages) wasn't enough, he needed verbal confirmation. It was a little uncomfortable at first but I accommodated him.

 

Giving and receiving love in a relationship is important. Some people aren't compatible in showing someone they love them in the right way. Sometimes people don't know why they feel unfulfilled. In their heads they know their partner loves them but they don't feel it. This is why I think the love languages are good because they help you to really think about it. You seem quite dismissive of her love language. Not having a go, just saying. You don't understand it and seem to place it below your own language. She similarly doesn't understand yours. She has tried to accommodate but it isn't working. I know you don't get why she doesn't like sex. But I like walking. When I do it, I have a great time. But I go once every couple of months and I really wouldn't want to do it twice or more a week.

 

Ultimately, she didn't feel loved. I'm sure she knew you loved her, but something was missing, which is why she went to the AP. He gave her something she was missing. She may not have even realised it was missing, but it may have been missing your entire relationship. The question is, can you both carry on without being able to show each other love in the way you understand? Stop comparing your relationship to others, it's only you two that matter here. There's no shame if you aren't compatible and can't make it work, it just is what it is.

 

Wow does this hit home. Thank you! You're ex sounds exactly like my wife. To a "T". I do think she feels insecure, and perhaps like she's not good enough for me. She has said, throughout our relationship, "I don't know why you picked me" or "I don't know what you see in me". And, by not responding with words of affirmation, I was, in effect, telling her "I don't know either". I really think this is was a huge part of what blew up in our relationship, especially when compared to what the AP did; he was non-stop WOA at the wife, their txt exchanges were pages of compliments with some "when can we get together" thrown in. And I was so blind to it (not the A, the need for WOA). As I read the exchanges, I thought to myself "Oh for f**ks sake, this is ridiculous, nobody talks like this". Not that the things he said about my W weren't true, a lot of them are. I just couldn't get (and can't) past how well the obvious flattery worked to seduce her. If a woman did that to me (and they have in the past) I'd look at it like "your desperate" or "stop lying to both of us and tell me what you really want". But, for my wife, it filled a void that I had left in her life, I see that 100% clearly now.

 

To your question. No, I/we cannot carry on without giving and getting love in the "language" that each of us speaks. For me, the changes are really easy, as mentioned, I've always thought "affirming" thoughts about my wife, just rarely verbalized them. Just say it out loud. Pretty straightforward. For her though, I'm not sure. Physical touch is a "harder" love language to deal with, it's more "active". I know she's said she wants to fix that part of our relationship and she's certainly putting the effort in recently, but, I do wonder if it can/will last.

 

Oh, and I am aware that physical touch is more than just sex. I'm using sex as a proxy for it, because, in a married relationship, that's a common result of intimate physical touch. But, yes, things like laying together in bed/on the couch, massage, and even holding hands. All of those things make me feel loved.

[Overtaxed]

Have you laid that out to her since you discovered her affair?

(Forget about what you said in the past, she obviously paid no attention to that.)

If you haven't had that discussion and said what you said above, then you need to do so in no uncertain terms, asap.

NO ifs, buts, maybes, no false hopes or fuzzy statements that can be misinterpreted.

If, after all that, she decides to stick with you, then you can institute the other changes and attempt reconciliation.

 

BUT if you are moving away 500 miles, with her still having the lingering hope that you are still somehow open to thinking about having kids, as part of "the changes" you will make to mend the marriage, then that is not fair to either of you.

YOU are moving to her "dream home" and unless you make your intentions very clear, even brutally clear, then I guess to her, her "dream home" will have kids in it...

If you then pull out the "no kids ever" card again, then where will that get you?

500 miles from home, with a resentful wife who will hate you even more...

 

One correction, it's actually 500 miles closer to home. We live about 1000 miles from both of our families now.

 

We've had the kid discussion a few times since d-day. I haven't changed my position on it and haven't wavered from what I've told her before. And, listen, while I "think" I know what I want surrounding children, does anyone really know for sure? Situations change. If I had a big payout from work that let me step back or retire, yeah, I think I probably would want to have (or adopt, more likely) children. Because I'd have the time to enjoy them, and the wife would have time to spend with them and time for the 2 of us. But in our current situation? We both work very demanding jobs, we both travel a LOT of work (100 nights a year for me typically, about 1/2 that for the W). Last night I got off my last conference call at 9PM and started this morning at 5AM. Not saying this for pity, I chose this, and I like my job. But what kind of life would it be for a child to come into this kind of household? I feel like I'd barely know them. And, even worse, my wife would be the same way; we'd spend most of our "kid time" coordinating schedules and babysitters rather than actually doing "kid stuff" with them. This is how I grew up; both my parents were professionals and had high stress, high pay jobs. And I hated it. I spent more time with grandmother than I did my parents for most of my childhood. I still carry scars from that; not because my grandmother was bad, she was a wonderful person and we had a ton of fun together; but because I wanted my Mom/Dad and they, very often, weren't there. And I just see myself and the W getting ready to repeat that exact same mistake. And I watch my friends making that same mistake every single day. I lived it as a child, and let me tell you, all these articles about both parents working being "good for the kids" is bull, at least in my eyes. If you don't have time for kids, don't have kids. And, frankly, we hardly have enough time for one another right now, let alone kids. In the course of a year, we probably spend a little less than 1/2 our nights together in the same bed. And some of those nights really don't count, because one of us gets in bed at 1AM after a late night flight or has to wake at 3AM to catch an early morning flight.

[elaine567]

One correction, it's actually 500 miles closer to home. We live about 1000 miles from both of our families now.

 

We've had the kid discussion a few times since d-day. I haven't changed my position on it and haven't wavered from what I've told her before. And, listen, while I "think" I know what I want surrounding children, does anyone really know for sure? Situations change. If I had a big payout from work that let me step back or retire, yeah, I think I probably would want to have (or adopt, more likely) children. Because I'd have the time to enjoy them, and the wife would have time to spend with them and time for the 2 of us. But in our current situation? We both work very demanding jobs, we both travel a LOT of work (100 nights a year for me typically, about 1/2 that for the W). Last night I got off my last conference call at 9PM and started this morning at 5AM. Not saying this for pity, I chose this, and I like my job. But what kind of life would it be for a child to come into this kind of household? I feel like I'd barely know them. And, even worse, my wife would be the same way; we'd spend most of our "kid time" coordinating schedules and babysitters rather than actually doing "kid stuff" with them. This is how I grew up; both my parents were professionals and had high stress, high pay jobs. And I hated it. I spent more time with grandmother than I did my parents for most of my childhood. I still carry scars from that; not because my grandmother was bad, she was a wonderful person and we had a ton of fun together; but because I wanted my Mom/Dad and they, very often, weren't there. And I just see myself and the W getting ready to repeat that exact same mistake. And I watch my friends making that same mistake every single day. I lived it as a child, and let me tell you, all these articles about both parents working being "good for the kids" is bull, at least in my eyes. If you don't have time for kids, don't have kids. And, frankly, we hardly have enough time for one another right now, let alone kids. In the course of a year, we probably spend a little less than 1/2 our nights together in the same bed. And some of those nights really don't count, because one of us gets in bed at 1AM after a late night flight or has to wake at 3AM to catch an early morning flight.

 

OK we get the busy busy busy but I guess your wife is thinking of taking time off, (SAHM even) to have the kids whether natural or adopted.

[Overtaxed]

People do that all the time. The relationship with the AP is not usually quite enough to blow up the marriage and leave, or they just do not have the courage to leave, so it becomes a cake eater situation.

 

"I "love" my husband/wife (or I "tolerate" my spouse), BUT I love my work, my house, my kids, my status as a married person, my friends, my family, my pets, my garden, my church... I love the status quo, I want to stay married, but I want/"love"/need my AP too...I have a void in my life that I need the AP to fill."

 

Cake eater. LOL. I love it, probably the least offensive way to describe what happened here (and to others), but a great description nonetheless.

 

And yes, I can see that; and she's told me, quite a few times, that the last thing she wanted was a D, she just didn't think I loved her (which is hard for me to accept). I see what you're saying, but, if you were a WS and your BS was telling you; "you can keep almost everything on the list except your status as a married person", I'd think that would make the decision pretty easy if you really want to leave.

[Marc878]

Cake eater. LOL. I love it, probably the least offensive way to describe what happened here (and to others), but a great description nonetheless.

 

And yes, I can see that; and she's told me, quite a few times, that the last thing she wanted was a D, she just didn't think I loved her (which is hard for me to accept). I see what you're saying, but, if you were a WS and your BS was telling you; "you can keep almost everything on the list except your status as a married person", I'd think that would make the decision pretty easy if you really want to leave.

 

Total BS. She did it because she wanted to and this is typical cheater script.

There is always a justification. This helps to put it on you. It's really your fault I screwed him. It helps to keep you in your place. It looks like it worked.

[Overtaxed]

OK we get the busy busy busy but I guess your wife is thinking of taking time off, (SAHM even) to have the kids whether natural or adopted.

 

And see, this is where it all flies off the rails for me. I make enough money to have her stay at home with a child, no doubt about it. I'm trying to think of how to say this without making her out to be a monster.. She like nice things. So, instead of having a big surplus with her salary, we wind up spending all of it and some of my salary getting more stuff. Which I'm happy to do for her, and I do enjoy myself, so, certainly I'm not without blame here.

 

But, if you want a child, and want to stay at home; I'd think there would come a point where you'd say "Enough, no more shopping sprees, no more uber-expensive cars, no more home renovations; I want to stop spending so much money so we can get a cushion and learn to live without my salary". I'd been waiting for her to say that for years. But she never has, she's just kept pursuing the material things, and, because I like them as well, I've never stepped in and said "We shouldn't buy/do that if you want to have a child". I suppose I could look at this as my own failing, but, in my mind, we're adults. If we buy an expensive house, we're going to have to work hard to keep up with the home/payments, etc. And there are sacrifices! Yes, we have nice things, but we're sacrificing a lot of our time to get them (at work) and we're forgoing other things (children) because of it.

 

And she never did that. If anything, she moved in the other direction, pushing for more and more expensive things while, at the same time, telling me that she wanted a child and to stay home. I didn't/don't understand it, if I want to do something expensive, I cut back in some areas to make sure we'll be able to do it. That's just not her; and it made me feel like I was on a treadmill with an ax over my head. Keep running faster, keep getting more, and, BTW, it's all going to get doubly expensive soon when I quit and we have baby/child expenses on top of all this.

 

Yes, I know, it's cold and rational. But money/finances are that way. We can't pay the bills with love or good intentions.

[Overtaxed]

Total BS. She did it because she wanted to and this is typical cheater script.

There is always a justification. This helps to put it on you. It's really your fault I screwed him. It helps to keep you in your place. It looks like it worked.

 

I'm not sure it worked, but yes, it's an attempt to put it on me, for sure. My response to this was something along the lines of "How in the h** could you think I didn't care". And she did have some reasonable examples; my willingness to D her came out front and center. But that was not me saying "I don't care" it was me saying "I care about you enough to let you go if that's what you want".

 

Overall, I agree with you, I think this was just a justification in her mind.

[road]

One correction, it's actually 500 miles closer to home. We live about 1000 miles from both of our families now.

 

We've had the kid discussion a few times since d-day. I haven't changed my position on it and haven't wavered from what I've told her before. And, listen, while I "think" I know what I want surrounding children, does anyone really know for sure? Situations change. If I had a big payout from work that let me step back or retire, yeah, I think I probably would want to have (or adopt, more likely) children. Because I'd have the time to enjoy them, and the wife would have time to spend with them and time for the 2 of us. But in our current situation? We both work very demanding jobs, we both travel a LOT of work (100 nights a year for me typically, about 1/2 that for the W). Last night I got off my last conference call at 9PM and started this morning at 5AM. Not saying this for pity, I chose this, and I like my job. But what kind of life would it be for a child to come into this kind of household? I feel like I'd barely know them. And, even worse, my wife would be the same way; we'd spend most of our "kid time" coordinating schedules and babysitters rather than actually doing "kid stuff" with them. This is how I grew up; both my parents were professionals and had high stress, high pay jobs. And I hated it. I spent more time with grandmother than I did my parents for most of my childhood. I still carry scars from that; not because my grandmother was bad, she was a wonderful person and we had a ton of fun together; but because I wanted my Mom/Dad and they, very often, weren't there. And I just see myself and the W getting ready to repeat that exact same mistake. And I watch my friends making that same mistake every single day. I lived it as a child, and let me tell you, all these articles about both parents working being "good for the kids" is bull, at least in my eyes. If you don't have time for kids, don't have kids. And, frankly, we hardly have enough time for one another right now, let alone kids. In the course of a year, we probably spend a little less than 1/2 our nights together in the same bed. And some of those nights really don't count, because one of us gets in bed at 1AM after a late night flight or has to wake at 3AM to catch an early morning flight.

 

You do not have to have lots of money to have kids.

You are being dishonest with your WW letting her think that you

may change your mind about wanting kids. Be fair and honest to your

WW set her free and divorce her. Let a man that wants kids have her.

Time fore you to step aside.

Time for you to be honest with yourself and her.

[BuddyX]

Interesting how the WS (especially W) read from the same affair menuscript. My ExW ate up all the flattery. If I didn't confirm how great she was, or pat her on the back, she would find someone who would. Funny, how it was always a male from work in the same age bracket. I think I lost track after 5.

 

People like that, I believe, will never change.

 

And their justification? Another LS member said it best. "My marriage was having problems - the answer is in another man's pants"

[elaine567]

And she never did that. If anything, she moved in the other direction, pushing for more and more expensive things while, at the same time, telling me that she wanted a child and to stay home. I didn't/don't understand it, if I want to do something expensive, I cut back in some areas to make sure we'll be able to do it. That's just not her; and it made me feel like I was on a treadmill with an ax over my head. Keep running faster, keep getting more, and, BTW, it's all going to get doubly expensive soon when I quit and we have baby/child expenses on top of all this.

 

Yes, I know, it's cold and rational. But money/finances are that way. We can't pay the bills with love or good intentions.

 

When women are unhappy, they tend to self medicate, that can be with alcohol or drugs, gambling or binging on food, but they can also spend excessively and get addicted to shopping, buying expensive un-needed stuff and rack up huge debts.

Fortunately you can afford her shopping addiction, but it is just another sign of her unhappiness.

 

She had a huge emotional disconnect with you.

Many women get past this emotional disconnect, by

1. having lots of female friends or a female best friend or a coveted family member. Women she can really talk to, women who understand, women she can vent to.

2. having kids and lavishing them with her attention.

3. having affairs with men who can give her the emotional connection she seeks

4. burying herself in work or volunteering

5. shutting down and becoming numb.

6. seeking comfort in unhealthy pursuits. Self medicating with drugs or alcohol, binging on food, gambling, shopping excessively etc. even an addictive use of the gym can be unhealthy if it is used simply to fill a gap in her life.

7. consulting a therapist

8. getting a divorce

[Overtaxed]

You do not have to have lots of money to have kids.

You are being dishonest with your WW letting her think that you

may change your mind about wanting kids. Be fair and honest to your

WW set her free and divorce her. Let a man that wants kids have her.

Time fore you to step aside.

Time for you to be honest with yourself and her.

 

<sigh>

 

I have been honest with her (and myself). If you read back about 100 pages, I told her before we married "Don't do this if you want kids". I told her within a month of starting to date that "I don't think I'm ever going to want to have kids". Or is honest, in your eyes, actually lying and saying "I will NEVER have kids"? Because that would be a lie; if the situation were right, I may want to have kids; that's the truth. But that situation, to me, does mean having a "lot of money" so my wife can stay home and still have the lifestyle that she (and I) enjoy.

 

IDK how this gets so twisted up or, really, how it becomes my responsibility to "set her free". I didn't lie to her about this. She knew it was unlikely she could have children, and doubly unlikely with me, even when we first met (and her reproductive issues were less severe), it would have been a 1 in 1000 shot to get pregnant naturally. If she wanted to follow that dream, it was always there for her, I never would have held it against her if she left to have kids. I get it; it's really important to some people, but my reproductive system (and in this case, hers) just can't do it naturally.

 

And, while you don't need a lot of money to have kids, you DO need a lot of money to have kids, a nice house, a nice car, a funded retirement, etc. And she wants all those things, and has made them a priority in her life. So how am I to read that? I want kids, but not as much as my luxury lifestyle? Because, frankly, that's exactly what I thought. Or, "you need to make more so I can have both", which, while I know she'd be thrilled with, is somewhat unrealistic.

[Overtaxed]

Interesting how the WS (especially W) read from the same affair menuscript. My ExW ate up all the flattery. If I didn't confirm how great she was, or pat her on the back, she would find someone who would. Funny, how it was always a male from work in the same age bracket. I think I lost track after 5.

 

People like that, I believe, will never change.

 

And their justification? Another LS member said it best. "My marriage was having problems - the answer is in another man's pants"

 

Wow man. I am so sorry. This is a "one and done" for me. Right now, this seems totally out of character for her and I'm willing to attempt a R because of the previous character she'd shown me for the first ~15 years of our relationship. If it happens again, there will be no R, there will be packed bags and a bed on fire in the backyard.

 

It's just so odd that that kind of flattery isn't transparent to the WS. I mean, come on, nobody is all perfect, and especially when the other person has something to gain (sex/emotional connection) how can you attribute any weight to their words? It just seems to obvious to me, women occasionally flatter me and I always immediately think "Are you really that desperate" because it's so obvious what they want I feel like they'd have a lot more luck with "Would you like to go sleep together" instead of what they are doing. But, as you and I can both attest, that's not always the case. People use flattery because it works, not because they are idiots; that's now 100% clear to me.

[Overtaxed]

When women are unhappy, they tend to self medicate, that can be with alcohol or drugs, gambling or binging on food, but they can also spend excessively and get addicted to shopping, buying expensive un-needed stuff and rack up huge debts.

Fortunately you can afford her shopping addiction, but it is just another sign of her unhappiness.

 

Would it be wrong of me to wish she had gone down the drugs or gambling route rather than the "have an affair" option? Because, in some ways, I really wish she had; I'd never D her for having a problem like that that we could work on together.

 

To your list, I'd say that my W certainly had some of them going on. Affair, check. Becoming numb, check. Therapist, check. Burying in work, check.

 

Why can't people just come out and say "I'm unhappy, here's what needs to change"? Life would be so much easier if we all stopped trying to deceive one another; wouldn't it??

[BuddyX]

Same here. Wish my ExW had a shopping, gambling, alcohol addiction. It's more tangible. And it doesn't mess with your mind as much.

Edited February 10, 2017 by BuddyX
Grammar

[Marc878]

I'm not sure it worked, but yes, it's an attempt to put it on me, for sure. My response to this was something along the lines of "How in the h** could you think I didn't care". And she did have some reasonable examples; my willingness to D her came out front and center. But that was not me saying "I don't care" it was me saying "I care about you enough to let you go if that's what you want".

 

Overall, I agree with you, I think this was just a justification in her mind.

 

More BS.

 

Your willingness to D only means you're not willing to live with infidelity in your life.

 

She's quite the manipulater

[Overtaxed]

More BS.

 

Your willingness to D only means you're not willing to live with infidelity in your life.

 

She's quite the manipulater

 

We'd discussed (and what I'm speaking of) is a D before the affair was exposed. I had no idea WHY we were talking about D, but I approach is without much emotion. "If that's what you want/need, here's what we have to do". She took that to mean "He doesn't care". Which was not at all true, but, if someone wants to divorce you with "no reason" (at the time I had no idea why we were talking about it; come to find out, she was in the midst of the A), what are you going to do? I wasn't going to beg her to stay or try to change her mind, especially since, in my eyes, I had no idea what was wrong.

[elaine567]

 

And, while you don't need a lot of money to have kids, you DO need a lot of money to have kids, a nice house, a nice car, a funded retirement, etc. And she wants all those things, and has made them a priority in her life. So how am I to read that? I want kids, but not as much as my luxury lifestyle? Because, frankly, that's exactly what I thought. Or, "you need to make more so I can have both", which, while I know she'd be thrilled with, is somewhat unrealistic.

Ok but was not the luxury lifestyle a substitute for her NOT having kids. I can't have kids, OT will not allow me to have kids, so I will bury myself in this luxury lifestyle and pamper myself to make me feel better about not having kids.

[elaine567]

It may even be worse. He won't allow me to try for kids, he won't agree to pay for the IVF, but I will darned well make him pay for all this luxury stuff I keep buying.

This may be on a conscious or subconscious level.

[Overtaxed]

It may even be worse. He won't allow me to try for kids, he won't agree to pay for the IVF, but I will darned well make him pay for all this luxury stuff I keep buying.

This may be on a conscious or subconscious level.

 

That's a deal I'm happy to make (and have made at least implicitly).

 

But the problem comes when she wants all the luxury stuff AND to have kids. And that's the impasse/compromise I could never seem to get her to understand or accept.

[AnneP]

That's a deal I'm happy to make (and have made at least implicitly).

 

But the problem comes when she wants all the luxury stuff AND to have kids. And that's the impasse/compromise I could never seem to get her to understand or accept.

 

This isn't unreasonable. Most stay-at-home-moms learn to cut back, live within their means, penny pinch, etc. You said she had never mentioned cutting back on spending if she were to be a mother. Did you ever ask her what her thoughts were? Did you ever point out that her lifestyle would have to change? Sounds like yet again both of you are lacking BASIC communication.

 

While I understand it's important for you to work out what caused her to stray, you also should be separating the A from all of your other issues. The A and how to reconcile should be what's on the table right now. Everything else is just a distraction and is making you somewhat responsible for this. You're not.

 

A month or so ago you didn't know she was cheating on you and were positive you never wanted kids. Since finding out she's had an affair, you have yet to attend the first session of MC, she still hasn't told you everything and blame-shifts, and you're now considering giving her children?

[Overtaxed]

This isn't unreasonable. Most stay-at-home-moms learn to cut back, live within their means, penny pinch, etc. You said she had never mentioned cutting back on spending if she were to be a mother. Did you ever ask her what her thoughts were? Did you ever point out that her lifestyle would have to change? Sounds like yet again both of you are lacking BASIC communication.

 

While I understand it's important for you to work out what caused her to stray, you also should be separating the A from all of your other issues. The A and how to reconcile should be what's on the table right now. Everything else is just a distraction and is making you somewhat responsible for this. You're not.

 

A month or so ago you didn't know she was cheating on you and were positive you never wanted kids. Since finding out she's had an affair, you have yet to attend the first session of MC, she still hasn't told you everything and blame-shifts, and you're now considering giving her children?

 

We did talk about cutting back, she just never gave me what I needed ("I'm OK with these compromises and still want to have a child"). She'd tell me I was being unreasonable, get mad, and then we'd go round and round.

 

I agree, issue here is the A. But, when we get into the "why" this is the stuff that comes up, so, while they are separate, they are also intertwined a bit. And it's my belief that her dissatisfaction in the M came because we don't have kids. I just can't think of anything else that really makes sense, all the other factors that people talk about really weren't there to a significant degree. She'd probably say I wasn't emotionally available enough, and that's true; but I've also been that way for 15 years; so I don't think anything really "changed" there enough to cause her to stray simply because of that.

 

Yeah, I wasn't clear. The deal I was always willing to make was "no kids, but live the high life". I haven't changed my stance on kids; this whole situation brought to light one of the number 1 reasons I don't have them; imagine if this was going on with a kid?! OMG, I have no idea how some of you BS's on here deal. I just can't fathom how hard that would be. I have trust issues, always have, and it makes it very hard to move past something like this to "trust enough to have a kid". Hence a prenup! No inkling she could/would do something like this, but I just don't trust people and always want to make sure my back is covered in case the worst happens. Because, unfortunately, it usually does.

[AnneP]

She said you were being unreasonable? Whaaaaat? Does she realize that at some point in your lives you will need to retire? If she doesn't want to stop spending the money, she shouldn't be having kids. She seems so incredibly selfish.

[Overtaxed]

She said you were being unreasonable? Whaaaaat? Does she realize that at some point in your lives you will need to retire? If she doesn't want to stop spending the money, she shouldn't be having kids. She seems so incredibly selfish.

 

I never saw it that way (although I can see your point). I really took it to mean, "I'd like a child, but I like this lifestyle more". And that was just fine by me; so I deluded myself into thinking just that. And she'd often make decisions that, while not directly related, seemed to indicate to me that she wasn't really that "serious" about having a child (our new home is even bigger and more lavish that our current home, her car cost a fortune, we went on 3 vacations last year, 2 of which were ridiculous). Stuff like that. If I was dead set on something really expensive, I would have said "No, let's just take a local vacation and relax for a week" or "I don't need a car that costs that much, let's look at something else". Now, to be fair, I absolutely never stood in the way of this, she'd start looking at something pricey and I'd just play right into it; so I'm not without guilt here. But it's never been my dream to have a child, so I didn't feel like it was my role to play gatekeeper. I suppose I looked at all those times as a "test", do you really want to save money and have a child or would you rather have something really expensive and nice. And she always went for the 2nd option.

 

Problem is, her expectations are now through the roof. There's not really anything "off limits" to her financially; and, because of that, the thought of making a budget again and going back to the days of worrying about/fighting about money terrify me to death. It would be a big fall for her, she's so used to "buy whatever you want" that even the slightest pullback will be pretty severely felt (IMHO). And when she never said "I understand we need to cut back", it just told me "I'm not really serious". Or, more troubling (and what crept into my head from time to time) "I'm not going to cut back, so you better just earn more".

[AnneP]

Marriage requires compromise. She wants children, but doesn't want to lose her lavish lifestyle. She also wants to stay home. That just isn't reasonable.

 

You're going to lose her salary AND have a baby. If she is serious about children, then she needs to come to you and say what she's willing to give up to make that happen. It's not your job to provide her with lavish things while she's blows through money that you don't have. Seems like you're here saying all the things you would compromise on and there's no give on her end.

 

For the record: If you have kids with her, I think you'll regret it in so many ways. Children are an emotional/financial strain on people who planned for and wanted them. Nothing can prepare you for kids. Nothing. You did mention fostering and I think that's a good option to try it out and see how you like it. It's also a way to give back to the community and help children, but your heart needs to be in it.

[Overtaxed]

Marriage requires compromise. She wants children, but doesn't want to lose her lavish lifestyle. She also wants to stay home. That just isn't reasonable.

 

You're going to lose her salary AND have a baby. If she is serious about children, then she needs to come to you and say what she's willing to give up to make that happen. It's not your job to provide her with lavish things while she's blows through money that you don't have. Seems like you're here saying all the things you would compromise on and there's no give on her end.

 

For the record: If you have kids with her, I think you'll regret it in so many ways. Children are an emotional/financial strain on people who planned for and wanted them. Nothing can prepare you for kids. Nothing. You did mention fostering and I think that's a good option to try it out and see how you like it. It's also a way to give back to the community and help children, but your heart needs to be in it.

 

That is exactly how I feel; there's just no compromise from her on this issue. After d-day, we've continued to discuss it and she's starting to understand my point on it a bit better. I know she wants the "white picket fence" dream situation. To that, I say "We all do!". I'd love to have enough money to quit my job and stay home with her and kids. However, the reality is that I can't, and, neither can she if we want to live anything like this lifestyle.

 

If we get through this, I think that fostering might be a good option for us.