Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[wmacbride]

Marriage requires compromise. She wants children, but doesn't want to lose her lavish lifestyle. She also wants to stay home. That just isn't reasonable.

 

You're going to lose her salary AND have a baby. If she is serious about children, then she needs to come to you and say what she's willing to give up to make that happen. It's not your job to provide her with lavish things while she's blows through money that you don't have. Seems like you're here saying all the things you would compromise on and there's no give on her end.

 

For the record: If you have kids with her, I think you'll regret it in so many ways. Children are an emotional/financial strain on people who planned for and wanted them. Nothing can prepare you for kids. Nothing. You did mention fostering and I think that's a good option to try it out and see how you like it. It's also a way to give back to the community and help children, but your heart needs to be in it.

 

fostering children is a wonderful thing, but it's not for everyone. There are financial and emotional costs attached to it, and a fair number of the children int he foster care system have issues that can make parenting them difficult. From they way the op speaks, I don't think he's ready for that kind of commitment.

[AnneP]

Key phrase being by choice.

 

It's not her choice at this point to be childless.

 

Overtaxed my point is you two have different goals.

 

Lastly there is a difference between unable and difficult to, when it comes to conception and carrying a baby to term. From what you say it's difficult not impossible.

 

I said that because OT's W was also on board to not have kids. I was agreeing that some women make that choice early on and don't waver, however some women do change their minds.

[wmacbride]

op,

Why are you willing to discuss fostering or adopting a child ( adoption ca be incredibly expensive)by having a biological child is not on the table?

 

Hve you ever told her that you understand her desire to have children and that you are sorry it isn't in the cards for you two? Showing empathy to her can let her know you care.

 

i'm not trying to dig at you, but if you are trying to reconcile, these are the kinds of things you will have to figure out together.

 

This is the thing about reconciling. It makes sense for a couple to work on their issues as part of the process, otherwise, why bother?

 

btw, a woman's biological urge to have children can be really strong, and when they are not able to for physical reasons, they can feel like an abject failure. There are tons of blogs and website written by women (b and men too) that explain how devastating it can be. It goes well beyond a mans urge to have sex. It's not just the biological desire to have children, it's feeling like you are broken and "less than". I know it might not make sense, but emotions seldom do.

[knitwit]

Adoption has never been off the table, and no, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. I just always tried to get her to understand what sacrifices we'd have to make and she was never accepting of it. We go on big/exotic vacations a few times a year, that obviously would have to stop. We'd have to give up the stupid expensive cars in our front yard. And she'd have to work if we wanted to keep our lifestyle the same. I never could get her to say "Yes, I know what I'm giving up and that's what I want". All I'd get is reasons I was being unreasonable, which, to me I read as "You need to make more money". Put me under a lot of stress and frankly, I just shut down the whole line of thinking because I didn't know how to make it "work" for us.

 

Now to defend her, we've had this conversation more recently and she has said "Yes" to what it really means. She said she didn't understand that's what I was looking for. I was really considering heading down the adoption route with her until this blew up in my face. I'm just thanking God every 10 minutes or so we don't have a child in this mess right now.

 

 

I was looking for a quote from earlier in the thread and found the one above.

 

My strong suspicion is that the wife was on-board with having a reduced lifestyle from the get-go. Neither communicated clearly per the above description.

 

Yes, to a person who wants to be a parent, it is obvious that the lifestyle is going to change. The degree to which it changes varies (SAHM, working, private or public schools, etc.) But uh, yeah. You're not going to party all night anymore. You're not going to go on wild vacations. Another person is going to take up a hell of a lot of your income. It's all part of the package.

 

But for someone who is weighing out the cost-benefit ratio, these are all explicit and important things to be considered. OP was trying to weigh things out; his wife had already accepted it as part of the package.

 

It's surprising to me that his wife didn't just say "yeah, we'll lose some of our lifestyle. And?" In the quote I was originally looking for, I think the OP said that she was his confident, and in fact many people felt safe confiding in her (parents, sister, co-workers, IIRC.) It struck me then that everyone seemed to feel good and safe speaking with her, but she wasn't speaking to anyone. She wasn't telling her truths to anyone. So this might be a personality trait that she has and if so, it has really caused her problems.

 

Again, none of this is an excuse for her cheating. This is, though, a big fault like in the marriage that will need to be addressed and resolved if they are going to move forward in a safe, solid, happy marriage.

[Try]

Below is something that I posted on another thread that I think is appropriate to post again here.

 

Some things to expect from a cheater following the cheaters script:

 

1) Trickle truth - She will only admit to what she has to. She will minimize everything about her cheating.

2) Blame shifting - She will try to blame her cheating on you not being the perfect spouse. Never mind that she has also not been a perfect spouse, especially when she started focusing her energies on the other man instead of you.

3) Reinventing history - She will exaggerate the significance of anything that you may have done wrong, even bringing up things she never brought up before, while forgetting about anything that she many have done to contribute to the issue.

4) Rug sweeping - She will soon be telling you that in order to work on your marriage, you are required to forgive her and not look back, so that you can focus on looking forward. This is BS logic as you cannot move forward without fully addressing what she did to your full satisfaction. BTW, it is normal for it to take 3 to 5 years for a betrayed spouse to learn to deal with the cheating, assuming that they ever do; many never do learn to deal with it, and there is no requirement that you do.

 

Your wife is at the blame shifting & reinventing history stage. She is blaming you for the affair by making believe that the two of you did not jointly agree to not have children. Never mind that the other man was not talking about having children with her, as logic is not supposed to matter when they are blame shifting. Your marriage is not supposed to be all about her and what she wants to be happy; what you want and your happiness matters too. And yes, when deciding on what you want in a wife and your marriage, you are allowed to be selfish, as long as you state it up front. Truth be told, we all are, it is just that some people feel that what they selfishly want is normal, but what you want is not the norm so is selfish. Again, ignore the haters.

[knitwit]

fostering children is a wonderful thing, but it's not for everyone. There are financial and emotional costs attached to it, and a fair number of the children int he foster care system have issues that can make parenting them difficult. From they way the op speaks, I don't think he's ready for that kind of commitment.

 

QFT. I am big proponent of being a foster parent. But don't been fooled. It is extremely challenging. It's not even necessarily the kids- every kid pulled into the system is there because of some sort of physical or emotional trauma (most often neglect.) But most kids will do well and even thrive if they find a stable and loving home, and also have additional supports. But the system itself is traumatizing for everyone: foster kids, bio kids, bio families, foster families, and the workers in the system.

 

It can be extraordinarily rewarding for those who have the desire to be parents or feel a calling to be a foster parent. But only people who have that desire will be up for the challenge. I agree that the OP is not a good candidate (and again, not a slam on him in any way.) His wife might be a great candidate, though.

 

As a foster parent, the OP's sort of blase sense that since she can't have kids (since he won't do IVF), it is in her best interests to stay with him. But in my experience, it might not be in her best interest, if she will never be satisfied unless she has tried everything to be a mom. She can't have kids *with him* since he didn't want to before, and he has every reason in the world to avoid it now.

 

She could be a mother without him though. It might not be an ideal Hallmark husband-and-wife-have-perfect-bio-child situation, but real life isn't like that anyway. There are many complicated yet fulfilled families in the real world.

 

The worst thing about it for her must be: he might have been able to come to some sort of agreement before. But she just blew up that possibility, at least of OP having reason to try to move forward on having kids with her any time soon.

 

It just a double-whammy of unfair for the OP. His wife just figuratively shot him in the heart by betraying him; yet instead of the attention going onto healing his wound, we are looking at the wife's infertility wound.

 

At the same time, it's a huge factor in the marriage.

[DKT3]

There is group of people on this site that often blame the man for a woman cheating on them. They never blame the wife for the husband cheating. Ignore them. Stop feeding their posts. If she wanted to change the deal and have kids, she was free to divorce and find someone that wanted kids. That someone was never you, and you are under no obligation to be someone that you are not.

 

You did not deserve to be cheated on. That is all on her. The fact is that you and your wife are both 50%-50% responsible for the issues in your marriage, but the cheater is 100% responsible for their cheating. End of story. No need to say more on the matter. Be well.

 

I agree that we have a portion of female posters who always find a way to make female infidelity the man's fault......However what I'm talking about is the Willy Momouth in the living room. And how it will hinder any efforts to heal from the infidelity. OP can't go in with the mindset that the affair is the only issue.

 

If he wants out then it's all mute anyways.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

The baby issue is moot right now. There's no way a child should be brought into this marriage currently. And if experts are right, notnfor anothrr 2-5 years, which at their age, almost takes it off the table for good. And OPs wife only has herself to blame for that reality because she herself torpedoed any remote chance with her affair.

 

As a woman I'm flabbergasted at the attacks against OP on this tread. He has been up front about children from the beginning. He has not wavered or lied. She made the choice - several times- to be with op knowing children were not likely on the horizon.

 

He has also offered her reasonable divorce terms to chase her own wants. She didn't take it.

 

Time to lay off OP. His wife made her choices. SHE has to own and live with that.

[Leelou]

 

Finally, "she just hasn't figured a way out yet"; how much easier could I make it for her? We own 2 houses, when she came home on d-day, I told her I'd leave to the other house post-haste and let her stay here. I'd set aside much of the pre-nup to set her up financially better than the document requires. And I'd keep her secret; file for D, and not tell anyone in her/my family the real reason we were breaking up. I mean, how much easier an exit can you have than that?! If she wanted "a way out", that's exactly what I intended to give her; no crying, no begging, no threats (unless she said she wanted to R and carried on with the A) and no exposure beyond that of getting a divorce. What else can you do to make sure someone sees an "easy out" and takes that option if it's what they want?

 

I don't think your wife 'wants' to divorce... what she wants, what she's always wanted, is some emotional reaction/spark of life out of you. Some real communication, especially on a loving level. When you state you are 'logical and practical' that's easy stuff... the hard stuff is to be able to communicate 'from your heart'. And you are missing that skill set. And it's nothing to be proud of.

 

Not being emotionally intelligent is a big fat negative, especially in a marriage. The spouse feels alienated from you, doesn't know your true heart, and feels distanced and kept at arm's length.

 

Additionally, your marriage smacks of a huge Power Imbalance. Your wife, after years and years of not hearing you speak to her from your heart, has begun to fill in the blanks with 'stories' and they are all negative stories, about herself. Her self esteem and self confidence has been eroded away by your proud 'practical and logical stance'.

When she tested you by threatening divorce, and you quickly latched on to that possibility by speaking all "heady" and making plans, and nowhere speaking from your heart, you confirmed her suspicions; that she has absolutely NO power to influence you. Not even the threat of losing her was enough to get you to connect with her on a heart level, and tell her you didn't want to lose her, and to find out what was going on.

 

There's a huge power differential in your marriage, not only where you have zero skills in speaking in emotionally-intelligent ways, and communicating effectively with the woman you say you love, but also in every other aspect of her life with you. I am reminded of the phrase that is said in "Ace Ventura, Pet Detective" when Ventura says, "Let's do everything YOU want to do...".

[Overtaxed]

Thank you for the posts everyone. I'm not going to respond individually, but I do appreciate all the viewpoints. Those who think I'm in the wrong, please feel free to keep posting, but, keep the personal attacks to a minimum if at all possible. I love my wife. I have a pre-nup, yes, because I was always afraid of something like this happening. Apparently that fear was justified, because here I sit, talking about my wife's affair. It had nothing to do with my love for her and everything to do with "reality" (which those who are in attack mode might call my "cold rational side"), this stuff happens. If my wife was in a position right now where she could walk out the door with 1/2 of everything, I'm not sure she'd be willing to R. But is that a bad thing? Why on earth has it become "normal" for a straying spouse (typically a woman, but not always) to feel justified taking the faithful spouse for 1/2 of everything just "because". I think my pre-nup is fair, and I've offered to set it aside for the most part if my W wants a divorce. Does this make me cold/uncaring? I suppose you could see it that way. In my eyes, it makes me someone who plans for the worst but hopes for the best.

 

I must say, I am a bit shocked at how this, in many posters eyes, is my fault. I'm not sure if this is something new in society, or if there's some real justification for this; but, it seems from reading many other stories on here that "woman cheats; man's fault" "man cheat; man's fault" is pretty much the general script. Well, I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me. Everyone has options before they cheat. If you want a divorce, ask for one! That goes for men and women! Yes, most of my friends cheat on their wives. And let me tell you, they all have "justification" in their mind. Is that right? Of course not, and, honestly, if you sat them down, they'd tell you it's not their wive's fault, it's their sex addiction/lack of empathy that caused them to cheat. That's the male "cheat script"; or at least the script that I see played out in my circle of friends.

 

The thing I do agree with; children are a big issue in our marriage. There's no doubt about that. But, I will reiterate, even if my W was with a perfectly healthy man (I have a very low sperm count, don't know if I mentioned that or not), the chances of her getting pregnant are almost 0. Coupled with my low sperm count, the chances are, pretty much 0. She needs IVF to have a shot at it, and, even then, that is a real long shot. And, the major issue, of course, which has been rightly pointed out; I'm not keen on the idea and haven't been for the 15 years we've been together. But, even if I was, there's almost no chance of it happening. So, if I was keen on the idea (and didn't have my own issues) and she not, would it be OK for me to get some on the side to try to have my own kid? I have a feeling that those blasting me on here would be blasting me just as hard if that were the situation.

 

I never lied to her or future faked her about kids. The AP, however, DID, that's exactly what he did and she fell for it hard. Telling her what a good mother she'd be. How he'd love to have kids with her. Meanwhile, he has a vasectomy, and his wife would destroy him in court; he actually told her "Would you be OK living with nothing". The rational part of my mind just spins on this one. He'd need to get a V reversal (expensive and often not successful), followed by IVF. We're probably talking 50-100K by the time you get your first shot at this, which is 50-100K that neither of them would have. But this is somehow better? I'm realistic, I know that enough rounds of IVF to have a good shot at this would bankrupt us; and somehow, to a lot of posters here, my logic around this issue makes me "at fault" for what happened here? It's a good thing I have a thick skin and a positive self image; I can't imagine how others husbands feel in this situation!

 

@Try: The other man was talking about having children with her. But he never intended to carry through on that promise. That's the thing that blows my mind, it's almost like she was dying to be lied to. He sterile. He'd never have the $$ to get her pregnant, even if she left for him tomorrow. It's great to say "I'd love to have kids with you" when it's a completely unrealistic situation; another thing entirely for them to be sitting in a room deciding if Ramen noodles can be breakfast/lunch/dinner for the next 15 years to pay for this. There's NO WAY he ever would have carried through on this. In fact, when confronted, he said "Bye" and ran back to his wife/kids immediately. But, reading the other posts here, and reading the TXT messages between him and my W, it's almost like this was the better option than laying out the reality of the situation.

 

Hve you ever told her that you understand her desire to have children and that you are sorry it isn't in the cards for you two? Showing empathy to her can let her know you care.

 

This one I want to reply to directly, because the answer is "NO" (in caps on purpose). I never said that, and I regret it every day that passes. I never showed her empathy around this because, in my mind, we'd already agreed. And that was dead wrong; even though we agreed that it wasn't in the cards for us, I should have realized how much of a compromise this was to her and tried to make her understand that I felt her pain about this. I never did that, I thought it was a "closed issue" and there was no reason to revisit it. And that was a terrible mistake, one that I hope I can rectify if we are able to R.

[Overtaxed]

I don't think your wife 'wants' to divorce... what she wants, what she's always wanted, is some emotional reaction/spark of life out of you. Some real communication, especially on a loving level. When you state you are 'logical and practical' that's easy stuff... the hard stuff is to be able to communicate 'from your heart'. And you are missing that skill set. And it's nothing to be proud of.

 

Not being emotionally intelligent is a big fat negative, especially in a marriage. The spouse feels alienated from you, doesn't know your true heart, and feels distanced and kept at arm's length.

 

Additionally, your marriage smacks of a huge Power Imbalance. Your wife, after years and years of not hearing you speak to her from your heart, has begun to fill in the blanks with 'stories' and they are all negative stories, about herself. Her self esteem and self confidence has been eroded away by your proud 'practical and logical stance'.

When she tested you by threatening divorce, and you quickly latched on to that possibility by speaking all "heady" and making plans, and nowhere speaking from your heart, you confirmed her suspicions; that she has absolutely NO power to influence you. Not even the threat of losing her was enough to get you to connect with her on a heart level, and tell her you didn't want to lose her, and to find out what was going on.

 

There's a huge power differential in your marriage, not only where you have zero skills in speaking in emotionally-intelligent ways, and communicating effectively with the woman you say you love, but also in every other aspect of her life with you. I am reminded of the phrase that is said in "Ace Ventura, Pet Detective" when Ventura says, "Let's do everything YOU want to do...".

 

I think this is the most dead on post I've read in days in this thread, thank you for it. She said almost verbatim, everything you laid out in here. She told me that when she said "divorce" she wanted me to fight for her and.. I didn't. I just started making plans for separation and division of our assets. Another huge mistake. But, I will tell you, from my perspective, I really did have her interests at heart. If someone says "divorce", I assume they mean it and that's what they want. So, if that's the case, what's the point trying to change their mind? Just start planning and moving forward. Of course I was destroyed inside, but I say no benefit in showing her that; I just wanted to get it "over with" and do so as quickly and painlessly as possible. It was the A that really kicked me into action; this was something I could work on/fix. If you're just "not in love with me anymore"; well, so be it. Sad for sure, but I didn't get emotional about it because I just didn't see the point. Now, I will say, from what she and others here have told me, this was a terrible mistake (one of many) that I made. She was testing me with that statement and I failed miserably. But, that's just not how I work; if I saw I want to do something, I want to do it. It's not a test, it's what I want to do; and I don't really want you to try to change my mind. I assumed she was the same way; so, I didn't "fight" for her, I didn't try to change her mind, I just started planning and getting ready for the reality of being divorced. It's not right, but it's how I process and deal with things; I'm an "action" person. She says D, I open Excel and start to figure out our financial affairs. I know, not exactly romantic; again, it's just how I work.

 

She certainly has stories. And I'm sure some of them are about herself. But she also has done a TON of re-writing of our history to make it worse than it was/is. I've confronted her with a lot of it and she honestly looks shocked when she sees the things she wrote (mostly to her mother) about me. She was demonizing me to a degree that was bordering on ridiculous and she didn't see it, not even a little bit, at the time. In my eyes; giving her a fast/easy divorce was the last kindness that I could do for her. In her eyes, it was "he doesn't give a s**t, and never did", which couldn't be further from the truth. It was a stunning lack of understanding in the other person, that's without question.

 

The one point I will disagree, she has a ton of power to influence me, although perhaps she doesn't see it. If you recall, I mentioned we currently own 2 houses. The 2nd house was just purchased in another state, and has been totally renovated to be exactly the home she wants. The 1st house (the one we've had for the past 8 years) is my "dream home". I was giving up my dream to live in hers; if that's not influencing my decisions, I don't know what is. The only thing I was unwavering on was the issue of children, both because it's not what I wanted and also because, in our discussions, my wife laid out a situation that I knew would lead to divorce. She told me, in her own way, "Sex is over", "My parents will live with us", "I'll be quitting my job and don't expect a change in lifestyle". Well, guess what? That would lead to D, and no way was I going to adopt or bring a child into this world knowing that I'd be divorced shortly after. She put me, in my eyes, into an impossible situation. There was no way I could agree to her terms for kids, and because of that, I dug in my heels and just said "No".

[aliveagain]

Friend, what a way to finally make herself herd. My only comment, she is a grown up, she has a mouth, you have two ears, this couldn't have been her best option.

[Leelou]

So, are you intending on learning a new skill set of emotional intelligence and speaking from your heart, or not?

[WilyWill]

I confess I've sort of lost track of this thread. But after reading the first few pages, I now feel like I've wandered into the twilight zone. His wife had sex with another man in his bed, and we're worried about how much Overtaxed has hurt her feelings and that he didn't "fight" for her? Maybe he didn't fight for her, but what was it when she had sex with another man in their marital bed? What kind of "fight" was that on her part? Overtaxed's commitment to his wife might have been weak, but it wasn't completely ****ing reversed.

[Overtaxed]

So, are you intending on learning a new skill set of emotional intelligence and speaking from your heart, or not?

 

Of course. While you might not be picking it up from this thread, I do, in fact have a heart and do have emotions that run through it pretty frequently. I always just suppressed them; I saw it as illogical and a sign of weakness to have to talk about how something makes me feel. But I felt it, of course I did. And this whole experience has overwhelmed my ability to hold them back, so they're out there on display now.

 

I really though (please don't laugh too hard) that women were attracted to the "strong, silent type". And that's what I always worked towards. Being the strong one. Family member funerals, I was always the one who "had it together" and was there for other's to cry on. And I thought that was my role, kill my emotions so I could deal with those from other people. The funny thing is, during the attraction phase, that is what a lot of women want. They just (apparently) don't want it in the "relationship" phase. A lot of the ways I would attract women when I was dating was to act totally uninterested and uninvolved; I really believed that was not only the way to attract, but also the way to keep women.

 

But it's a burden to keep all that stuff hidden from other people. Of course I felt things; sad/happy/annoyed/disappointed/etc. It just hid it.

[Overtaxed]

I confess I've sort of lost track of this thread. But after reading the first few pages, I now feel like I've wandered into the twilight zone. His wife had sex with another man in his bed, and we're worried about how much Overtaxed has hurt her feelings and that he didn't "fight" for her? Maybe he didn't fight for her, but what was it when she had sex with another man in their marital bed? What kind of "fight" was that on her part? Overtaxed's commitment to his wife might have been weak, but it wasn't completely ****ing reversed.

 

I wouldn't even go that far. My commitment to my wife was not weak, my commitment to have children was very weak. And that's what much of the conversation on pages 10-30 was about (said somewhat in jest). I was always committed to the wife, I just didn't see a future for us with children, both because of our medical issues as well as the way she pictured it in her head; I didn't think I could do that for her and wasn't willing to go down a road where I was pretty sure that I'd fail.

 

BTW, it wasn't in our bed. And I'm pretty sure that's true. Not that it makes it a whole lot better, it was absolutely in our house, and it wasn't just once. But, just to set the record straight, I have no reason to believe it was in our bed; it would be a poor choice anyway, even if you didn't give a single f**k to go into that room to have sex with another person, there's pictures of us on the walls, it's further from the entrance to the house, and the guest and other bedrooms are easier to get to than the master. The bed it WAS in, however.. Let's just say that bed won't be making the trip with me/us to the new home. I get a feeling of dread when I even walk in that room knowing what happened in there. I can't wait for the movers to come and get me out of this house; which, honestly, is so sad. As I said earlier, this was my dream home, and, in many ways, it still is. But it's dead to me now, what was our home has now just become a house. A house where something awful happened. A lot of really wonderful things happened here too (this is the home we got married in), but I can't focus on anything but the thought of the AP being here. Makes me sick; it's going to be one of the hardest things to let go of; everything else she did I could see myself doing. Being wrapped up in the moment and having sex with someone else; I get that. I don't condone it, but I do understand it. But bringing someone else back to our home? That's a bridge I know, in my heart, I could never cross.

[Leelou]

Of course. While you might not be picking it up from this thread, I do, in fact have a heart and do have emotions that run through it pretty frequently. I always just suppressed them; I saw it as illogical and a sign of weakness to have to talk about how something makes me feel. But I felt it, of course I did. And this whole experience has overwhelmed my ability to hold them back, so they're out there on display now.

 

I really though (please don't laugh too hard) that women were attracted to the "strong, silent type". And that's what I always worked towards. Being the strong one. Family member funerals, I was always the one who "had it together" and was there for other's to cry on. And I thought that was my role, kill my emotions so I could deal with those from other people. The funny thing is, during the attraction phase, that is what a lot of women want. They just (apparently) don't want it in the "relationship" phase. A lot of the ways I would attract women when I was dating was to act totally uninterested and uninvolved; I really believed that was not only the way to attract, but also the way to keep women.

 

But it's a burden to keep all that stuff hidden from other people. Of course I felt things; sad/happy/annoyed/disappointed/etc. It just hid it.

 

Perhaps you can start with Daniel Goleman's books on emotional intelligence, to convince you how important and 'logical' it is to be smart with your emotions, and with other's.

 

Much tougher, though, is the actual DOING part... the actual Speaking From Your Heart. But with a lot of practice, and some guidance (therapist?), you can eventually get the hang of it. I recommend your working on speaking from the heart, if you have a shot at reconciliation and a happy marriage, going forward.

[aliveagain]

I wouldn't even go that far. My commitment to my wife was not weak, my commitment to have children was very weak. And that's what much of the conversation on pages 10-30 was about (said somewhat in jest). I was always committed to the wife, I just didn't see a future for us with children, both because of our medical issues as well as the way she pictured it in her head; I didn't think I could do that for her and wasn't willing to go down a road where I was pretty sure that I'd fail.

 

BTW, it wasn't in our bed. And I'm pretty sure that's true. Not that it makes it a whole lot better, it was absolutely in our house, and it wasn't just once. But, just to set the record straight, I have no reason to believe it was in our bed; it would be a poor choice anyway, even if you didn't give a single f**k to go into that room to have sex with another person, there's pictures of us on the walls, it's further from the entrance to the house, and the guest and other bedrooms are easier to get to than the master. The bed it WAS in, however.. Let's just say that bed won't be making the trip with me/us to the new home. I get a feeling of dread when I even walk in that room knowing what happened in there. I can't wait for the movers to come and get me out of this house; which, honestly, is so sad. As I said earlier, this was my dream home, and, in many ways, it still is. But it's dead to me now, what was our home has now just become a house. A house where something awful happened. A lot of really wonderful things happened here too (this is the home we got married in), but I can't focus on anything but the thought of the AP being here. Makes me sick; it's going to be one of the hardest things to let go of; everything else she did I could see myself doing. Being wrapped up in the moment and having sex with someone else; I get that. I don't condone it, but I do understand it. But bringing someone else back to our home? That's a bridge I know, in my heart, I could never cross.

 

I hate to say this but sneaking a man into your home to have porn star sex with trumps getting married to the love of your life in the home. Who in their right mind would actually think this is a good idea? You marry your love in the home you intend to live out your lives in, why would you then defecate in it?.

[Sioned]

The thing I do agree with; children are a big issue in our marriage. There's no doubt about that. But, I will reiterate, even if my W was with a perfectly healthy man (I have a very low sperm count, don't know if I mentioned that or not), the chances of her getting pregnant are almost 0. Coupled with my low sperm count, the chances are, pretty much 0. She needs IVF to have a shot at it, and, even then, that is a real long shot. And, the major issue, of course, which has been rightly pointed out; I'm not keen on the idea and haven't been for the 15 years we've been together. But, even if I was, there's almost no chance of it happening. So, if I was keen on the idea (and didn't have my own issues) and she not, would it be OK for me to get some on the side to try to have my own kid? I have a feeling that those blasting me on here would be blasting me just as hard if that were the situation.

 

I never lied to her or future faked her about kids. The AP, however, DID, that's exactly what he did and she fell for it hard. Telling her what a good mother she'd be. How he'd love to have kids with her. Meanwhile, he has a vasectomy, and his wife would destroy him in court; he actually told her "Would you be OK living with nothing". The rational part of my mind just spins on this one. He'd need to get a V reversal (expensive and often not successful), followed by IVF. We're probably talking 50-100K by the time you get your first shot at this, which is 50-100K that neither of them would have. But this is somehow better? I'm realistic, I know that enough rounds of IVF to have a good shot at this would bankrupt us; and somehow, to a lot of posters here, my logic around this issue makes me "at fault" for what happened here? It's a good thing I have a thick skin and a positive self image; I can't imagine how others husbands feel in this situation!

 

@Try: The other man was talking about having children with her. But he never intended to carry through on that promise. That's the thing that blows my mind, it's almost like she was dying to be lied to. He sterile. He'd never have the $$ to get her pregnant, even if she left for him tomorrow. It's great to say "I'd love to have kids with you" when it's a completely unrealistic situation; another thing entirely for them to be sitting in a room deciding if Ramen noodles can be breakfast/lunch/dinner for the next 15 years to pay for this. There's NO WAY he ever would have carried through on this. In fact, when confronted, he said "Bye" and ran back to his wife/kids immediately. But, reading the other posts here, and reading the TXT messages between him and my W, it's almost like this was the better option than laying out the reality of the situation.

 

.

 

Not really sure if this helps or hinders - but for what it is worth I do have some experience of similar issues, so I can give a point of view which may help.

 

Children - or lack of them - is what tore my marriage apart. When I married, they were on the cards - and it was the plan. However, once we were married - it was off the table - via a sexless marriage and a complete refusal from my husband to discuss anything. Bringing up the subject resulted in arguments, and fights and overwhelming bitterness on my part. It wasn't even that he didn't want children - he would always say he did when we argued abut it - he just effectively made sure it would never happen.

 

Eventually I forced the issue (I really don't want to talk about that - it wasn't pleasant), and that is when I found out I was now infertile as it was too late for me (I was about 35), and that IVF would have about a 5% chance of success. The odd thing is - my OH actually agreed to it and was "supportive", so I gave it a go and it failed twice -at which time I stopped. And tried to move on. But I couldn't because I was just too angry and felt betrayed.

 

I honestly feel that if - like you - my OH had ever been upfront and said from the outset that kids were off the table - I could have built a life without them as long as we built a life together. I am not overly maternal and actually don't like kids very much - it was lack of ANY life that I couldn't bear.

 

I also realised that a sexless marriage was also not what I signed up for - and decided that eventually - I was likely to end up in an affair - and like you - that is not an acceptable choice for me - so I started separation proceedings.

 

That is when I found out that I actually COULD have children of my own, although they would not biologically be mine. I have used Donor Embryos using 2 anonymous donors. Again - oddly - my now ExOH has supported that choice. So I WILL have a child. It wont be his child, and that is a sadness I will live with. And it is not an easy path I have taken. But it IS possible for people to have children even if they are unable to do so naturally. There are options - that cost - but that don't actually rely on your fertility or hers (I am actually able to physically carry a child - although it is risky at my age - I just didn't have any eggs left - but there option even for women who cannot carry - if they have the $$$). Adoption was out for us for other reasons, otherwise I may have gone down that route, and indeed we did look at it at one point.

 

I just want to re-iterate - I would not have done what your wife did - I do not believe an affair is the answer to anything - if you want to cheat you leave first and start again. And I also attach no blame on you for what she did because of the children issue. You were honest and upfront - and I can say that even now I would appreciate some of that in my own situation more than I can say - and I know I am never going to get it.

 

So I can understand your wife's pain to a degree - but I cannot understand why her answer to that pain was dishonesty and cheating. Even in my darkest moments (and there were a LOT of those) I still knew that divorce comes first - another man in my life comes AFTER that - when I am ready and free to make that choice.

 

I hope that helps a little.

[Overtaxed]

I hate to say this but sneaking a man into your home to have porn star sex with trumps getting married to the love of your life in the home. Who in their right mind would actually think this is a good idea? You marry your love in the home you intend to live out your lives in, why would you then defecate in it?.

 

I know, trust me, I know. We'd already bought the new house when the A started, so we both knew this wasn't our forever home. But, beyond that? I've got nothing. Why defecate all over the good memories we had in this house? And I know that there's no going back; I'll never look at this house the same way again.

 

Porn star sex? Not so much. They had a LOT of sex (several times a day), but it wasn't porn star sex; I know that from the messages back and forth. Without getting too blunt, he had "performance issues". I saw the typical "happens to everyone" and "it's not your fault" messages, and the wife admitted that's what she was talking about. The "porn star" portion of it was the fantasy and the locations, not the actual sex mechanics. Not that it much matters, but every AP is not equally skilled in the bedroom; just like a date, some of them kind of stink in the bedroom. Appears that was the case here.

[Overtaxed]

Not really sure if this helps or hinders - but for what it is worth I do have some experience of similar issues, so I can give a point of view which may help.

 

Children - or lack of them - is what tore my marriage apart. When I married, they were on the cards - and it was the plan. However, once we were married - it was off the table - via a sexless marriage and a complete refusal from my husband to discuss anything. Bringing up the subject resulted in arguments, and fights and overwhelming bitterness on my part. It wasn't even that he didn't want children - he would always say he did when we argued abut it - he just effectively made sure it would never happen.

 

Eventually I forced the issue (I really don't want to talk about that - it wasn't pleasant), and that is when I found out I was now infertile as it was too late for me (I was about 35), and that IVF would have about a 5% chance of success. The odd thing is - my OH actually agreed to it and was "supportive", so I gave it a go and it failed twice -at which time I stopped. And tried to move on. But I couldn't because I was just too angry and felt betrayed.

 

I honestly feel that if - like you - my OH had ever been upfront and said from the outset that kids were off the table - I could have built a life without them as long as we built a life together. I am not overly maternal and actually don't like kids very much - it was lack of ANY life that I couldn't bear.

 

I also realised that a sexless marriage was also not what I signed up for - and decided that eventually - I was likely to end up in an affair - and like you - that is not an acceptable choice for me - so I started separation proceedings.

 

That is when I found out that I actually COULD have children of my own, although they would not biologically be mine. I have used Donor Embryos using 2 anonymous donors. Again - oddly - my now ExOH has supported that choice. So I WILL have a child. It wont be his child, and that is a sadness I will live with. And it is not an easy path I have taken. But it IS possible for people to have children even if they are unable to do so naturally. There are options - that cost - but that don't actually rely on your fertility or hers (I am actually able to physically carry a child - although it is risky at my age - I just didn't have any eggs left - but there option even for women who cannot carry - if they have the $$$). Adoption was out for us for other reasons, otherwise I may have gone down that route, and indeed we did look at it at one point.

 

I just want to re-iterate - I would not have done what your wife did - I do not believe an affair is the answer to anything - if you want to cheat you leave first and start again. And I also attach no blame on you for what she did because of the children issue. You were honest and upfront - and I can say that even now I would appreciate some of that in my own situation more than I can say - and I know I am never going to get it.

 

So I can understand your wife's pain to a degree - but I cannot understand why her answer to that pain was dishonesty and cheating. Even in my darkest moments (and there were a LOT of those) I still knew that divorce comes first - another man in my life comes AFTER that - when I am ready and free to make that choice.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

It does, thank you for sharing your story. We never went down the route of donor anything, but, I suspect that would improve her chances from the 5% (which is about where our stand) per IVF cycle. I'm not sterile, I just have a very low sperm count; so there are procedures they could do to concentrate and find the few little guys I have for direct injection into an egg. The wife does ovulate, but she's got very severe endometriosis; blocking the path and making her uterus hostile for implantation. But, as you correctly point out, with enough $$ and time, there is a chance of it working, especially if it doesn't have to be "ours".

[Overtaxed]

Perhaps you can start with Daniel Goleman's books on emotional intelligence, to convince you how important and 'logical' it is to be smart with your emotions, and with other's.

 

Much tougher, though, is the actual DOING part... the actual Speaking From Your Heart. But with a lot of practice, and some guidance (therapist?), you can eventually get the hang of it. I recommend your working on speaking from the heart, if you have a shot at reconciliation and a happy marriage, going forward.

 

Book ordered this morning/delivered to Kindle. I'm a veracious reader, I'm probably 20 books into this since d-day, some of them have been really helpful, some of them less so, but they've all given me a perspective on where things went wrong. This book looks really interesting, thank you for the recommendation!

[kgcolonel]

Overtaxed....quick question...where is your wife with regard to the M today.

 

I see a lot of BS on trying to fault you (btw for not changing your mind on the children issue and what not) but I am more curious as to the level of commitment on your wife's part?

 

What is she saying about taking another man into the house you are paying for and about that level of betrayal. I did read that her initial explanation was that they couldn't go to a hotel for fear of discovery etc....but more so does she see the level of invasion and absurdity in what she did as icing on the perverbial cake to bringing another man into the house?????

 

What has been her response to the offer you set out, "you can decide to D or you can decide to R and all details will be wrapped and sealed but if you lead me on to a false R then the term scorched earth comes to mind"? Just curious if you are seeing true commitment and what she is doing to reconnect with you.

 

One final question, how are you doing on the reconnection? Emotionally, and physically?

[wmacbride]

The baby issue is moot right now. There's no way a child should be brought into this marriage currently. And if experts are right, notnfor anothrr 2-5 years, which at their age, almost takes it off the table for good. And OPs wife only has herself to blame for that reality because she herself torpedoed any remote chance with her affair.

 

As a woman I'm flabbergasted at the attacks against OP on this tread. He has been up front about children from the beginning. He has not wavered or lied. She made the choice - several times- to be with op knowing children were not likely on the horizon.

 

He has also offered her reasonable divorce terms to chase her own wants. She didn't take it.

 

Time to lay off OP. His wife made her choices. SHE has to own and live with that.

 

The issue is that the op has stated he'd like to reconcile. If that's the case, then he needs to really dig deep to see if that's a realistic possibility, and to determine that, he hs to analyze the issues in his marriage to see whether or not they can be addressed in a way that is satisfactory to both.

 

I know it's patently unfair that at a time when all the focus should be on the bs and his or her pain, it has to be shifted , at least in part, to the marriage as a whole. While the A needs to be addressed first, that won't change the fact that these issues still exist, and that a bs will have to face them sooner or later. In this case, the op needs to figure out what his role is in all of this, not it's blaming him, but because if these issues are deal breakers for either one of them, then they are never going to be happy.

 

This is why so many are stuck on the issue of children. He is happy being childless and doesn't seem to have any interest in having kids. She desperately wants children. The more he explains his pint of view, the more I don't see how they can get past that.

[GoldenR]

Good Lord, the replies to the OM here are unbelievable!

 

OP's W steps out on him, and it's his fault??? Smmfh. Unbelievable!!!!