Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Midlifecrisis1]

I can see these two in my wife (not the rest though). However, sensitive question here, she told me sex with the AP was not painful. And sometimes sex with me isn't painful (it depends on the time of the month). Do you think this applies in that case (seems like it would be every time and with any man)?

 

Sensitive question here...do you use lubricant? Do you do things to get her really wet before intercourse? Around ovulation each month, women are more lubricated than the rest of the month, so it would seem added lubrication would help you at those other times. In an affair, sometimes it's just so exciting that it's forbidden, that a women would be wet and aroused with very little effort.

[Cephalopod]

I see you making lots and lots of excuses for her and not holding her accountable. She is an adult. She knows right from wrong. She had multitude opportunities to make the right choices and not betray you. But she didn't.

 

Stop defending her brokenness and start holding her accountable.

[Overtaxed]

Sensitive question here...do you use lubricant? Do you do things to get her really wet before intercourse? Around ovulation each month, women are more lubricated than the rest of the month, so it would seem added lubrication would help you at those other times. In an affair, sometimes it's just so exciting that it's forbidden, that a women would be wet and aroused with very little effort.

 

Yes, we do usually use lubricant (Wet Platinum, it's amazing!). And yes, it's very rare that we have sex before she's had an orgasm. The arousal problem in our relationship is "before sex" not during. She easily orgasms, both from toys and from oral sex.

[Overtaxed]

I see you making lots and lots of excuses for her and not holding her accountable. She is an adult. She knows right from wrong. She had multitude opportunities to make the right choices and not betray you. But she didn't.

 

Stop defending her brokenness and start holding her accountable.

 

I'm trying to do both. She is broken in some ways. And she is also an adult and is being held accountable for her actions. But doing one without the other; I'm not sure what purpose that serves.

[Cephalopod]

I'm trying to do both. She is broken in some ways. And she is also an adult and is being held accountable for her actions. But doing one without the other; I'm not sure what purpose that serves.

 

Some ways? Many ways my friend.

 

It is a fine line, but you do it by not allowing her to blame-shift, and by standing up to her when she tries to minimize her actions.

 

At the same time you can acknowledge you made mistakes as a husband and you can work on them...but you do that on your own. You work on yourself irrespective of what she is doing. Your self-actualization and self improvement have nothing whatsoever to do with her or your marriage. It has to do with you becoming a self-sustaining, honest, authentic man. You have to do this for yourself, and not as any penance you think you owe her for the past mistakes you made.

[Tribble]

Just picking up on one tiny thing that's come up: sex. It's safe to say you aren't satisfied. But don't delude yourself into thinking it's only the frequency that leaves you unsatisfied and no-one else would satisfy you so there's no point divorcing your wife over it.

 

1) Sex doesn't sound great for you because you're scared of hurting her and worried she doesn't want it. What exactly does sex with your wife do for you? Is it just because it's sex with a woman you love? It's not just not having enough sex that's leaving you wanting more.

2) Plenty of women want sex more than once a week. Plenty. I myself would love once a day and there are plenty of women like me too. You have a fairly small sample size and seem to believe things that simply aren't true.

3) You wouldn't be divorcing her for lack of sex. She had an affair!! Plus, there are other issues within your marriage that would contribute.

[Overtaxed]

Some ways? Many ways my friend.

 

It is a fine line, but you do it by not allowing her to blame-shift, and by standing up to her when she tries to minimize her actions.

 

At the same time you can acknowledge you made mistakes as a husband and you can work on them...but you do that on your own. You work on yourself irrespective of what she is doing. Your self-actualization and self improvement have nothing whatsoever to do with her or your marriage. It has to do with you becoming a self-sustaining, honest, authentic man. You have to do this for yourself, and not as any penance you think you owe her for the past mistakes you made.

 

Exactly how I feel and what I'm trying to do. There's work to be done on me, there's more work to be done on her, and there's a ton of work to be done in the relationship. I've called her out several times on the blame shifting; in fact, in my mind, I've really hammered it, especially when it comes to talking about "d-day" in her mind (the day in the fertility clinic).

 

I don't feel I owe a penance, but I do feel like I can be a better man, both for her and for myself.

[aliveagain]

You are less then 60 days out since discovery. Your low sex drive wife is very religious and comes from a very religious family. You are an atheist. Her affair partner was a spiritual leader who used biblical verses to get her into bed. She claims she only gave into him after he disclosed that he loved her, he claims that she perused him for years(may this wasn't a three month affair)something must have been brewing way before the physical part started 5 months ago.

 

You state that sex outside of marriage isn't eating at you but what is are her lies, her lack of sex drive with you while giving it to him whenever he wanted it. That leads me to ask a question and I hope you will answer it honestly, have you had sex outside of your marriage(why are you so indifferent to sex outside of marriage when it sends the rest of us reading it through the roof)?

 

It is very obvious to me that she has a lot of anger and little respect for you because of how she treated you during her affair. Her affair partner is one sick f**k, he not only went after your wife but he did it on your turf. That is a power move, he marked your territory as his and your wife allowed it. All he had to do was quote the bible and tell her he loved her. You need to go after him within the church, this man needs to be removed so something like this never happens again, according to his wife he has done things like this before.

 

Yes you will have to deal with the IVF issue but not until you know you want the marriage for the right reason's and you know she is a safe partner. Don't complicate things more then they are by bringing children into this mess. As a reader your post definitely reads like you are making excuses for her, just my honest opinion.

Edited February 15, 2017 by aliveagain

[Overtaxed]

Just picking up on one tiny thing that's come up: sex. It's safe to say you aren't satisfied. But don't delude yourself into thinking it's only the frequency that leaves you unsatisfied and no-one else would satisfy you so there's no point divorcing your wife over it.

 

1) Sex doesn't sound great for you because you're scared of hurting her and worried she doesn't want it. What exactly does sex with your wife do for you? Is it just because it's sex with a woman you love? It's not just not having enough sex that's leaving you wanting more.

2) Plenty of women want sex more than once a week. Plenty. I myself would love once a day and there are plenty of women like me too. You have a fairly small sample size and seem to believe things that simply aren't true.

3) You wouldn't be divorcing her for lack of sex. She had an affair!! Plus, there are other issues within your marriage that would contribute.

 

I am not satisfied, that's a true statement. However, sex with her is pretty awesome for me, she's a great partner. She's good in bed, to put it bluntly. Yes, I have to be careful; that's been the case in other relationships as well. But, you're right, I would like to have a more diverse and exciting sex life, even if it's not PIV every time (which, of course, is what hurts her). Desire is the big gap, not other things.

 

That's encouraging should I choose to leave. But it's real hard to find those women, especially since almost every woman I've ever been with has portrayed herself as "Once a day, only on an off day, I'm game for 3-4 times!" and then, as the relationship matures, the "real woman" comes out. And I realize there are exceptions, but given that some huge percentage of guys I know say exactly the same thing, it's difficult to think that I'd be lucky enough to find that woman in the future.

 

On point 3, absolutely, your right. I have rock solid grounds for divorce that aren't in any way considered "shallow". Divorcing her before the A because of our sex life would have been very different that D'ing her today. And I need to keep that in mind.

[Cephalopod]

Exactly how I feel and what I'm trying to do. There's work to be done on me, there's more work to be done on her, and there's a ton of work to be done in the relationship. I've called her out several times on the blame shifting; in fact, in my mind, I've really hammered it, especially when it comes to talking about "d-day" in her mind (the day in the fertility clinic).

 

I don't feel I owe a penance, but I do feel like I can be a better man, both for her and for myself.

 

But what I see you doing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you are putting your self improvement and work on the marriage ahead of your healing. How is that supposed to work?

 

How are you healing emotionally from this? I see you working your ass off to help her fix herself, but I don't see much of you doing things for yourself to heal from the trauma of what she did to you. I see a guy walking around with a big, bleeding hole blown right through the middle of him, with no bandages or stitches or anything to clot the flow.

 

Are you in individual counseling with a counselor who understands how to help patients with PTSD and trauma? Are you eating well, working out and exercising, getting enough sleep, praying, meditating and connecting with male friends for support and encouragement? What are you doing for yourself? a

[Overtaxed]

You are less then 60 days out since discovery. Your low sex drive wife is very religious and comes from a very religious family. You are an atheist. Her affair partner was a spiritual leader who used biblical verses to get her into bed. She claims she only gave into him after he disclosed that he loved her, he claims that she perused him for years(may this wasn't a three month affair)something must have been brewing way before the physical part started 5 months ago.

 

You state that sex outside of marriage isn't eating at you but what is are her lies, her lack of sex drive with you while giving it to him whenever he wanted it. That leads me to ask a question and I hope you will answer it honestly, have you had sex outside of your marriage(why are you so indifferent to sex outside of marriage when it sends the rest of us reading it through the roof)?

 

It is very obvious to me that she has a lot of anger and little respect for you because of how she treated you during her affair. Her affair partner is one sick f**k, he not only went after your wife but he did it on your turf. That is a power move, he marked your territory as his and your wife allowed it. All he had to do was quote the bible and tell her he loved her. You need to go after him within the church, this man needs to be removed so something like this never happens again, according to his wife he has done things like this before.

 

Yes you will have to deal with the IVF issue but not until you know you want the marriage for the right reason's and you know she is a safe partner. Don't complicate things more then they are by bringing children into this mess. As a reader your post definitely reads like you are making excuses for her, just my honest opinion.

 

The "pursued him for years" was what his wife said, and it's a lie. Unless she thought to completely wipe her phone for the period before the affair, but NOT wipe it during the affair. I don't believe it, its a lie he told to his wife to make my W look like the aggressor.

 

I have not had sex outside the marriage, but, before I met my wife, I was extremely sexually active. Dramatically outside of normal. I honestly have no idea how many, but "a lot" and "most women would vomit" would be reasonable answers. I know all about "sex for fun" because I did it for so many years. And 95% of that sex was completely meaningless to me. I know that's not the case here, but, I'm pushing this into the "meaningless sex" category in my mind because, at the end of the day, all the "meaning" she found in it was nothing but lie piled on lie (from both of them).

 

One area we are in complete agreement, the AP is one sick f**k. He held a position of power over my wife when they worked together. He then positioned himself as a spiritual leader as the A was kicking off to break down her defenses. And yes, he came to my home and p*ssed all over it. Sick as h*ll, absolutely no doubt about it. And I KNEW this man. We sat down for dinner with both of our wives many times. I knew his kids. I mean, the level of depravity from both of them is beyond reason, but, no matter how I look at it, he's "more" at fault.

[Overtaxed]

But what I see you doing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you are putting your self improvement and work on the marriage ahead of your healing. How is that supposed to work?

 

How are you healing emotionally from this? I see you working your ass off to help her fix herself, but I don't see much of you doing things for yourself to heal from the trauma of what she did to you. I see a guy walking around with a big, bleeding hole blown right through the middle of him, with no bandages or stitches or anything to clot the flow.

 

Are you in individual counseling with a counselor who understands how to help patients with PTSD and trauma? Are you eating well, working out and exercising, getting enough sleep, praying, meditating and connecting with male friends for support and encouragement? What are you doing for yourself? a

 

Thank you for asking, I do need to keep this in focus. I work in "crisis mode" all the time at work, and I just block everything out and work on the problem; 1000 customers down, OK, no problem, I got it, just let me work. That's what my day to day is like, and it's how I'm dealing with this, it's a crisis and I'm in autopilot a lot of the time.

 

I am doing a lot of things for myself, just not talking about them very much because, IMHO, that's my own personal journey and not something that I can get a lot of help here with. But I am in IC. I'm sleeping well. My eating is still messed up, but it's getting better. Working out a lot; I really enjoy that because it gives me something else to focus on. Praying regularly and attending church (with the W, but for me). Never meditated before, but I'd kind of consider riding my bike meditation time, my thoughts blank and it's always where I have my best ideas.

 

The only thing on your list that I haven't done is connecting with male friends. I don't have any that I trust with this kind of thing. Those that I do talk to, if I told them this, they're reaction wouldn't be helpful (they'd probably send me a few girls over to the house to help me "get over it"; and yes, I'm serious). I really don't trust many people, and I know that a lot of my male friends would lead me directly into a revenge affair without much thought; so I've been distant (which is saying something, because I'm already really distant). In fact, I don't think I've called a single one since d-day. You might say I have a very negative view of people (or at least my friends) and, you'd be right in saying that. However, experience has taught me that viewpoint is something that does fit the majority of them. Just like my W's friend who knew about the A was willing to cover it up without much thought, my friends would do the same for me and encourage it, that's not what I need right now.

[Cephalopod]

Your WW is just as at fault. Again you are defending the indefensible. She was a grown woman who could see and understand what he was and what he was doing. She had multiple opportunities to stop what she was doing and not cheat with him.

 

She was not some naive teenage girl being manipulated and exploited by a perverted adult. She was a mature woman, wise in the evils of the world and able to make informed decisions.

 

If she was so unhappy in the marriage she had years to make her complaints known and hold you accountable for your deficiencies. And if you failed to make improvements, she could have divorced you and moved on.

 

Instead she took the coward's way out. She refused to give you the benefit of the doubt. She lowered herself to sleep and behave abominably with a snake to fill some weird-ass needs she had.

 

I call bull**** on all this justification for what she did.

 

Kick her ass off that pedestal and make her earn your forgiveness.

[Weezy1973]

The childhood trauma thing; I'm curious why you think that. I'm also curious as to the answer; I've never really asked her directly. I know she felt a bit neglected and very pushed by her parents (kind of contradictory, but when she explains it to me, it does make sense). She's the youngest of 3, and wasn't planned, so I do wonder if she has some issues relating to that. AFAIK, she didn't have any sexual trauma as a young child. She did, however, have a string of just AWFUL relationships as a young woman, like, some of the worst you can imagine, including terrible sexual experiences early in her life. So, this certainly may be some of it; although, to be frank, it seems like a lot of women have a story similar to this, terrible sexual stuff that happened to them as a young adult. I'm not sure, but I will certainly see if there's anything to this line of thought.

 

Why I suspect childhood trauma (and not necessarily sexual, could be emotional abuse and neglect qualifies as emotional abuse), is because she is making such bad, messed up choices.

 

1. She wants children yet chooses to be with a man that doesn't want children. This in itself is super messed up and suggests a deeply troubled core. And none of that is your fault. That is entirely on her.

 

2. She is deeply religious, yet chose to cheat (!!!) - with a pastor. That is super messed up. And none of that is your fault. That is entirely on her.

 

3. She was drawn to bad boys and emotionally abusive men. Emotionally healthy women, including young women, are generally repulsed by bad boys and emotionally abusive men. And again, not your fault. Women that are drawn to emotionally abusive men are almost always the victims of childhood trauma.

 

I've had, I think the opposite life of you in many ways in that I'm surrounded by healthy marriages and emotionally healthy people, and what you're describing in your wife is really messed up and not healthy. And not your fault.

 

I honestly don't think she has a sense of self; she doesn't seem to have any core values. She was putting on an act to be the wife she thought you would want instead of being herself. Messed up. She needs intensive therapy, and she needs to figure out who she really is. What her values are. And it's a lot easier for her to do that on her own then as part of a marriage.

[Overtaxed]

Your WW is just as at fault. Again you are defending the indefensible. She was a grown woman who could see and understand what he was and what he was doing. She had multiple opportunities to stop what she was doing and not cheat with him.

 

She was not some naive teenage girl being manipulated and exploited by a perverted adult. She was a mature woman, wise in the evils of the world and able to make informed decisions.

 

If she was so unhappy in the marriage she had years to make her complaints known and hold you accountable for your deficiencies. And if you failed to make improvements, she could have divorced you and moved on.

 

Instead she took the coward's way out. She refused to give you the benefit of the doubt. She lowered herself to sleep and behave abominably with a snake to fill some weird-ass needs she had.

 

I call bull**** on all this justification for what she did.

 

Kick her ass off that pedestal and make her earn your forgiveness.

 

Bolded -- I really don't think she is able to see that part of other people. She's very trusting and just doesn't ever think people are trying to take advantage of her (and this behavior has been around LONG before the A).

 

The rest of it, I agree.

 

To the final point, how? I feel like I have kicked her down a lot. Do I keep beating her with it? Do I act distant? Do I kick her out? I'm just not sure what to do to bring her off the pedestal that will make it clear to her that I see her as "fallen". I'm also not 100% clear as to what that's going to accomplish. I've tried to be true to myself and her through this process. Drop the games, no bullcrap, here's what you have to do (and she's done it) and here's what I'm going to do. I've not promised her a R. I've made it clear that I need time to make my decision, but also told her that I want to R, I'm just not sure I can get past it (all true). I've not told her I forgive her, because, I don't. Not yet. Maybe I'm making myself out to be too much of a nice guy here, but I feel like we've had some real hair raising fights and I've done some things I'm not at all proud of during this process to, if I'm honest with myself, break her down. Is the answer more of that? Make her feel lower? And I'm not asking that as an indictment, I'm asking because I want to know the answer.

 

I think all of us walk around in a daze after this happens, and I know we all make mistakes, but I don't feel like I've made any huge ones. I never begged her to stay, in fact, I told her to get the F out when she was lying to my face. I made her tell me the story, even though I already knew it from my electronic hacking. I don't feel like I'm making this easy on her, in fact, sometimes I feel like what I'm doing is just vindictive. Why make her tell me what I already know (the answer; because she doesn't know how much I know and I want to see if she's lying, but, still it feels wrong to me)?

 

IDK, when you love someone and the blow your life up, it's hard to flip from love to hate overnight, especially if you hope to get back to love. But, and I sincerely mean this, if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

[elaine567]

The "pursued him for years" was what his wife said, and it's a lie.

 

Did his wife say that because he told her that after the affair was discovered, or was she actually aware for years of your wife's crush on her husband?

[Overtaxed]

[quote=Weezy1973;7228121

I've had, I think the opposite life of you in many ways in that I'm surrounded by healthy marriages and emotionally healthy people, and what you're describing in your wife is really messed up and not healthy. And not your fault.

 

I honestly don't think she has a sense of self; she doesn't seem to have any core values. She was putting on an act to be the wife she thought you would want instead of being herself. Messed up. She needs intensive therapy, and she needs to figure out who she really is. What her values are. And it's a lot easier for her to do that on her own then as part of a marriage.

 

That is almost, word for word, what she told me her therapist said. And the reason her therapist suggested she go on sabbatical for a significant period of time (from me and from work). And maybe that is what she needs, but, I can tell you, without question, it's not what I need. If she went down this path (I've never said it to her, but it's true), I'd divorce her. She's closing in on 40 years old. The time to "find yourself" was 20 years ago! But I do think she lacks in "sense of self" and not just with me. With the AP, I saw it clear as day. And when she's around family/friends, I see it to, she becomes what they want, not who she really is (or at least not who I think she is).

 

I think this is a big part of the internal turmoil that she deals with on a day to day basis. She doesn't know who she is, and I think, in many ways, it's because she lacks a defined role. If she were a mother, that would define her, I have no doubt. But she's a working woman in a job that's very high pressure; she's not on the Mommy track, and because of that, she's not really sure what track she's on. She likes a lot of things about this track (the financial rewards), but she looks longingly at people who've gone a different way. However, in many respects, the train has left the station; it's too late to get on the track they are on. Sure, you can change things about your life, in fact, make BIG changes. Leave me. Leave you job. Travel the world. Join an aid organization. Become a church leader. All those tracks and 1000's more are out there. But I think she's in some ways paralyzed, she doesn't want any of the options that are open to her, she wants this track, but she wants to have a child and stay on the same train. That's not realistic, both for physical reasons, but, more importantly, even absent those issues, you and your husband both can't spend 100 nights a year in hotels when you have a child. You HAVE TO get off the track and get on a new one. And she doesn't see that, she loves many things about where we're heading, she just wants this with a child at the same time. This has been the fundamental discussion disconnect when we talk about children, she can't see that the changes required aren't minor, they are a complete rework of the life that we've had to date.

[Overtaxed]

Did his wife say that because he told her that after the affair was discovered, or was she actually aware for years of your wife's crush on her husband?

 

AFAIK, that explanation popped up after his W discovered the affair. Now, he DID tell my wife (I have the TXT) that he'd been in love with her for years, she did not reciprocate it (at least not in any written medium). She told me she was shocked when he said that. And I kind of believe it, because she actually told her mother about that conversation before the A started.

 

I can't find anything in my wife's character, in any of the ~1 year of messages I have, or perhaps most importantly, in the AP's past behavior, that makes me think for a moment that my wife was the pursuer in this relationship. Not that it's all that comforting, she did plenty of other terrible things, but she was chased by the AP, not the other way around.

[elaine567]

AFAIK, that explanation popped up after his W discovered the affair. Now, he DID tell my wife (I have the TXT) that he'd been in love with her for years, she did not reciprocate it (at least not in any written medium). She told me she was shocked when he said that. And I kind of believe it, because she actually told her mother about that conversation before the A started.

 

I can't find anything in my wife's character, in any of the ~1 year of messages I have, or perhaps most importantly, in the AP's past behavior, that makes me think for a moment that my wife was the pursuer in this relationship. Not that it's all that comforting, she did plenty of other terrible things, but she was chased by the AP, not the other way around.

 

Ok, but I would ask the OM's wife anyway. YOU need to be sure of the facts.

If she actually has had a crush on him for years, and he has only recently acted upon it, then that tells a completely different story.

So many BSs make assumptions based on the character of their WS to be very shocked when they find out the real truth.

[harrybrown]

any remorse at all for what she did?

 

How do you know she won't do it again?

 

is she still pining for the OM?

[Overtaxed]

any remorse at all for what she did?

 

How do you know she won't do it again?

 

is she still pining for the OM?

 

Yes, she is starting to show remorse. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for here, but she's made some unprompted moves that have impressed me (telling my parents that she was in the wrong, same to her parents). I'm not exactly sure what to expect from "remorse" though. She's cried. She's said she's so sorry. She's disclosed.

 

I don't know she won't do it again. But would I know that with anyone? Not sure I would, she was the last person I'd expect, so, apparently my "cheat radar" is highly defective.

 

I don't think she's still after the OM. I'd know if she reached out to him (or vice versa), she hasn't. She's starting to see what happened and how he twisted her; and how quickly and without effort he threw her under the bus before his wife. I think she honestly feels "stupid" right now for falling for it. Doesn't mean she doesn't miss him, but I think she's generating anger for what happened and for how he manipulated her.

[Marc878]

Don't be in denial. OM took what your wife gave him. She made the decision to cross that line.

 

BS syndrome - it was just an EA, OM took unfair advantage, etc.

 

Know what you're dealing with then deal with it.

 

Don't over analyze or try to justify.

[Cephalopod]

Bolded -- I really don't think she is able to see that part of other people. She's very trusting and just doesn't ever think people are trying to take advantage of her (and this behavior has been around LONG before the A).

 

The rest of it, I agree.

 

To the final point, how? I feel like I have kicked her down a lot. Do I keep beating her with it? Do I act distant? Do I kick her out? I'm just not sure what to do to bring her off the pedestal that will make it clear to her that I see her as "fallen". I'm also not 100% clear as to what that's going to accomplish. I've tried to be true to myself and her through this process. Drop the games, no bullcrap, here's what you have to do (and she's done it) and here's what I'm going to do. I've not promised her a R. I've made it clear that I need time to make my decision, but also told her that I want to R, I'm just not sure I can get past it (all true). I've not told her I forgive her, because, I don't. Not yet. Maybe I'm making myself out to be too much of a nice guy here, but I feel like we've had some real hair raising fights and I've done some things I'm not at all proud of during this process to, if I'm honest with myself, break her down. Is the answer more of that? Make her feel lower? And I'm not asking that as an indictment, I'm asking because I want to know the answer.

 

I think all of us walk around in a daze after this happens, and I know we all make mistakes, but I don't feel like I've made any huge ones. I never begged her to stay, in fact, I told her to get the F out when she was lying to my face. I made her tell me the story, even though I already knew it from my electronic hacking. I don't feel like I'm making this easy on her, in fact, sometimes I feel like what I'm doing is just vindictive. Why make her tell me what I already know (the answer; because she doesn't know how much I know and I want to see if she's lying, but, still it feels wrong to me)?

 

IDK, when you love someone and the blow your life up, it's hard to flip from love to hate overnight, especially if you hope to get back to love. But, and I sincerely mean this, if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

 

By knocking her off the pedestal, I meant to stop idealizing her in your own heart and mind. You have told us ad-infinitem about what a devout Christian she was and how you were completely gobsmacked at how she could have acted against her nature so horrendously.

 

Well, that is just it. She showed you her true nature when she had an affair with a pastor. The ideal of her that you had in your head was not true or accurate. It was an illusion. It was always an illusion. The problem is you keep holding on to that illusion...that delusion... and you won't let it go.

 

Until you let go of this idealized vision of her, you can never approach your wife or her behavior with any objectivity. You need to accept that your wife is a cheater, and a liar, and that when she is hard-pressed she is willing to gamble your love and her relationship with you to get what she wants.

[oldshirt]

 

 

The last thing I'll say, which I doubt nobody anybody wants to hear.. Yes, smooth talkers do talk committed women into bed every day.

 

The reverse is true for men; women dressed up in revealing outfits and making overt sexual gestures at men DO convince committed men to cheat. .

 

 

Smooth talkers and PUAs and players and sexy women in tight skirts and stiletto heels have virtually no power over people who are not attracted to them and do not want to have sex with them. None.

 

 

Smooth talkers and persistent pursuers may eventually name the right time and place for a tryst to occur and the WS may finally let their guard down and go for it. But with the exceptions of actual rape by force or threat of harm and of drugging, no WS has ever had relations with AP that they didn't want to and didn't go for when the conditions were condusive.

 

This is the most bitter pill for any BS to swallow. There is no pain quite like the realization that one's spouse actually desired and wanted to be with another. That is why we all make rationalizations that they were manipulated or coerced or some how tricked.

 

It even eases our burden to internalize the blame onto ourselves and say we didn't give enough time or attention or that we put on too much weight or that our hair was thinning etc etc.

 

If we blame ourselves and say it was something we did or didn't do that lead to the A, then we can at least feel a little bit of empowerment that we may be able to change something in ourselves that will make them want to be with only us.

 

But that is all just our own smoke and mirrors. The crux of the matter is both the BS and the WS have to make some harsh and difficult choices.

 

Can the BS really live with knowing the WS desired and had feelings for AP and was willing to bring pain and damage to the M?

 

Can the WS really get past the desire he/she had for the AP and actually do the heavy lifting required to repair the damage to the M and hurt feelings of the BS?

 

It's so tempting to blame the AP and so tempting to blame ourselves. But no matter how one slices it, the WS did it because they felt the attraction and desire and wanted to get down with the AP and they did not have the motivation, character and fortitude to not do it.

[Overtaxed]

By knocking her off the pedestal, I meant to stop idealizing her in your own heart and mind. You have told us ad-infinitem about what a devout Christian she was and how you were completely gobsmacked at how she could have acted against her nature so horrendously.

 

Well, that is just it. She showed you her true nature when she had an affair with a pastor. The ideal of her that you had in your head was not true or accurate. It was an illusion. It was always an illusion. The problem is you keep holding on to that illusion...that delusion... and you won't let it go.

 

Until you let go of this idealized vision of her, you can never approach your wife or her behavior with any objectivity. You need to accept that your wife is a cheater, and a liar, and that when she is hard-pressed she is willing to gamble your love and her relationship with you to get what she wants.

 

He wasn't a pastor, just your typical bible quoting schmuck holding himself out as a spiritual leader to others. Just wanted to set the record straight.

 

I see what you're saying, and what I had in my head was absolutely an illusion/delusion while the A was ongoing. But what about the 10+ years before that? Was it all an illusion? That's the part I don't know how to reconcile; her nature before the A gave me no pause, no reason to consider she might do something like this. So, what was the "real" her, the person I knew before, the person she was in the A, or the person she is now?

 

How do you get the objectivity? I know she's a cheater and liar. I know it intellectually, but I can't square that with the person she's shown me to be. She's obviously capable of it, she did it. But how do you put these two completely separate images of a person together? I can't believe that she's been lying about who she is for our entire relationship, frankly, she's not good at lying, even during the A, if we hadn't been talking about D, I would have known something was up, her behavior was just too "off". So I struggle thinking the "A her" was the real her and the person I knew before that was a fake.