Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree, I think "I don't know why" is an attempt to appease the BS and not hurt them with the actual truth.

 

We (gen.) tend to use "I don't know why" as an excuse to avoid the truth and to avoid looking bad.

The lie - "I don't know why I stole your bf, really I don't"

The truth - "Well actually I do, he is soo hot and I wanted him. I knew it would upset you but I really really wanted to upset you, as I do not actually like you that much..."

 

And when you answer ... because I wanted to ... because I was only thinking about me... because I was selfish...

 

The question still remains why ?

 

Why did I become selfish? I don't know

 

You can give reasons all day long... but they don't always answer the why.

 

So we will just agree to disagree

 

If I knew the deep honest why... I would tell him...I don't know why

[Weezy1973]

That is not necessarily true.

They do it out of a fear of failure or a fear of rejection. They feel obliged to make everyone happy and not disappoint anyone.

 

Very true. Still not due to genuinely caring about others though, and i think the OP is still under the illusion that his wife is a compassionate, giving, caring person.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Very true. Still not due to genuinely caring about others though, and i think the OP is still under the illusion that his wife is a compassionate, giving, caring person.

 

And she could be...

[elaine567]

Very true. Still not due to genuinely caring about others though, and i think the OP is still under the illusion that his wife is a compassionate, giving, caring person.

 

I think genuinely caring for others outwith the parental bond is pretty uncommon.

Delve to any depth and there is usually a payback for any supposedly purely altruistic behaviour.

 

I don't know his wife, she may indeed be a caring sort, but her behaviour towards the OP by having an affair behind his back showed a distinct lack of care for him.

[Weezy1973]

I don't know his wife, she may indeed be a caring sort, but her behaviour towards the OP by having an affair behind his back showed a distinct lack of care for him.

 

...and the way she's handled wanting or not wanting to have children and them blaming him (after manipulating him) speaks volumes in my mind.

 

Also have to remember that it's pretty easy to be a "good" partner with their lifestyle. No kids. No money worries. Fun and exciting vacations. Who wouldn't be a good partner in those circumstances? When times get tough though, time to cheat...

[Hecan]

To be fair, we don't know that she lied about children and it sounds like OT has offered her many opportunities to come out and tell him differently and/or leave the relationship.

We don't know she doesn't like sex with him. (Yeah, they have issues that need to be addressed but to assume she flat out doesn't like it ??)

She screwed up royally and had a PA with someone. Chances are high it wasn't about sex for her!! I know when my husband was close to doing the same, things weren't right with us and honestly at that point I don't know that I would have cared.

No doubt OT can find someone to have wild monkey sex 3 times a day in the beginning and go away for the weekend in the Caribbean or a week in the Mediterranean or head to the outback of Alaska or whatever. He can sure show them a good time. But the test of time often proves that once you are in a 'secure relationship' suddenly those 4 hour hikes to get to the peak of the mountain to view the waterfall for 5 minutes grab a kiss and hike back out for 4 more hours isn't really her cup of tea or taking a boat out in rough waters for 3 hours with the hopes that you get to jump out and snorkel with a whale shark for 30 seconds doesn't sound so fun. How many times do you hear guys say she wanted to play racket ball when we were dating, now she wants me to find somebody else to play with and then ---ches when I'm not home. OR she used to love to go to a hockey games, now she acts bored to tears. Or sex was great in the beginning now I feel like I have to beg and plead for a quickie.

(I know people that have 2 incredible homes, every toy imaginable and cars many only dream of but no joy with each other. The "stuff" does not equal happiness.)

It sounds like OT realizes that they ARE compatible in a lot of ways and although he won't lack for companionship, finding something deeper and more lasting with someone that is a good fit is a lot harder than finding someone to have sex and spend time with. ( I so understand this !!! You have history and unfortunately now a lot a baggage. )

Plus he loves her and needs to try and understand where they went wrong, and SEE if it is salvageable. See if trust and love can be recovered See if they can find common ground and see if they can get past what she has done and fall in love again)

Affair proofing a marriage is hard on both sides. (OT knows how easy it would be and obviously is diligent to keep himself from the situation to begin with). Heck, most of us don't realize how far down we can go till we get there and then wonder how in the heck did I get here!!

"Fixing" this wont happen overnight and he may decide he can't do it anymore but to just say she is not worth it to him is selling them both short!!

[CaliforniaGirl]

So what are those positive characteristics so unique to your wife that other women don't have? From what you've described, I can't see many. Even before the affair.

 

She's attractive. But she doesn't like sex (with you at least). She hasn't been honest or open about her desire or lack of desire for wanting children. Openness and honesty of course being cornerstones of good relationships.

 

She is an adept liar as you've pointed out. So again, very divorce worthy.

 

You've described her as a "people pleaser" and if you know anything about people pleasers, they're do it because of how it makes them look, not out of genuine care and compassion for others.

 

And of course then she cheated.

 

So what are all those positive characteristics that your wife has that you won't be able to find in another woman?

 

These are good questions.

[Overtaxed]

I think genuinely caring for others outwith the parental bond is pretty uncommon.

Delve to any depth and there is usually a payback for any supposedly purely altruistic behaviour.

 

I don't know his wife, she may indeed be a caring sort, but her behaviour towards the OP by having an affair behind his back showed a distinct lack of care for him.

 

I completely agree with your first statement. That's how I see almost everyone I know; if you're being nice to me, it's because you're after something. And 99% of the time, it's true.

 

And yes, her behavior showed a complete lack of care for me. Complete. And that's the part that's hard to rationalize, but that's not her. She always thinks about other people before acting, so much so that it's probably a detriment to her life (allowing people to take advantage of her). Engaging in selfish behavior of any kind is just not in character for her. And something this selfish (I can't think of anything more so), I just never saw this in her. And still don't. Which makes is really hard to take what I KNOW to be true and put together with the person standing in front of me.

[Overtaxed]

...and the way she's handled wanting or not wanting to have children and them blaming him (after manipulating him) speaks volumes in my mind.

 

Also have to remember that it's pretty easy to be a "good" partner with their lifestyle. No kids. No money worries. Fun and exciting vacations. Who wouldn't be a good partner in those circumstances? When times get tough though, time to cheat...

 

Apparently it's harder than we both think to be a "good" partner in these circumstances. But, yes, that's kind of how I view our lives; it does seem like it should be "easy" or at least "easier" that most relationships out there. We just don't have the most common marriage stressors. Plenty of money, enough time to enjoy it for both of us, both of us in good health, both of us attractive and athletic. We're just not the typical "ball and chain" type marriage, we never were.

[elaine567]

...and the way she's handled wanting or not wanting to have children and them blaming him (after manipulating him) speaks volumes in my mind.

 

Having kids is a HUGE, HUGE deal to some people. It may be their life's goal, NOTHING is more important and once their mind is made up they will go through hell and high water to have them.

Emotions in infertile/childless people run high as do hormones and the biological urge can make some go a little if not a lot mad, so to my mind she gets a pass on that.

She just chose the wrong man, thought she could change his mind maybe or she thought she could do without kids and then realised she couldn't but by that time was stuck in a marriage she is basically scared to leave.

[elaine567]

She always thinks about other people before acting, so much so that it's probably a detriment to her life (allowing people to take advantage of her). Engaging in selfish behavior of any kind is just not in character for her. And something this selfish (I can't think of anything more so), I just never saw this in her. And still don't. Which makes is really hard to take what I KNOW to be true and put together with the person standing in front of me.

Being a people pleaser can lead to consequences. Building up resentment can be one of them, along with depression.

 

Are you a People Pleaser? - How the inability to say "no" can lead to health consequences

 

As I quoted before -

The Infidelity Megafecta

 

"There is often an undercurrent of resentment in the cheater’s decision to have an affair, so affairs commonly have a retributive element to them."

[Weezy1973]

Having kids is a HUGE, HUGE deal to some people. It may be their life's goal, NOTHING is more important and once their mind is made up they will go through hell and high water to have them.

 

Exactly. And she wasn't communicating this to OT at all, and then (seems to have) built up resentment towards him. And then cheated.

 

Emotions in infertile/childless people run high as do hormones and the biological urge can make some go a little if not a lot mad, so to my mind she gets a pass on that.

 

A pass on not letting her husband / partner know about her deep desire to have children? And then building resentment and ultimately cheating on him? Or just a pass on her emotions running high?

 

She just chose the wrong man, thought she could change his mind maybe or she thought she could do without kids and then realised she couldn't but by that time was stuck in a marriage she is basically scared to leave.

 

Well yes, she's not stuck in any marriage at all. She's free to leave. She has a career. The main reason that I've heard of people reconciling after an affair is BECAUSE of the children. There aren't any children involved here.

[elaine567]

Well yes, she's not stuck in any marriage at all. She's free to leave. She has a career. The main reason that I've heard of people reconciling after an affair is BECAUSE of the children. There aren't any children involved here.

 

She is scared to leave though, she needs her hand held, the world is scary place. She chooses to stick around, but my prediction is that IF she meets another more suitable guy, she will be off.

She has also "stupidly" sunk her "huge windfall" into this house, she may not want to give that up, yet anyway...

[JohnAdams]

Only OT knows if his marriage deserves a second chance. Only OT knows if he loves his wife enough that he is willing to try again. Only OT knows where he wants to go with his life.

 

I see the reason for cheating; she was selfish, she met a hot guy, she was broken. There is no doubt these are real reasons. However, if this is all we look at she was selfish, met a hot guy, was broken, then we may as well all stay single. We all have these traits. Something deeper caused her to cheat. Probably reasons she does not understand or know why.

 

Does OT want to live with what his wife did? He said it is one more to her number perhaps that is a way to live with it? My wife's number doubled. I think often if you love your partner, you try to find a way to live with it. Would he really be better off if he starts over? That is a gamble. He has to weigh the costs/benefits and do what he thinks is best for his life.

[wmacbride]

Only OT knows if his marriage deserves a second chance. Only OT knows if he loves his wife enough that he is willing to try again. Only OT knows where he wants to go with his life.

 

I see the reason for cheating; she was selfish, she met a hot guy, she was broken. There is no doubt these are real reasons. However, if this is all we look at she was selfish, met a hot guy, was broken, then we may as well all stay single. We all have these traits. Something deeper caused her to cheat. Probably reasons she does not understand or know why.

 

Does OT want to live with what his wife did? He said it is one more to her number perhaps that is a way to live with it? My wife's number doubled. I think often if you love your partner, you try to find a way to live with it. Would he really be better off if he starts over? That is a gamble. He has to weigh the costs/benefits and do what he thinks is best for his life.

 

 

This is extremely well put.

 

We, myself included, have all been on here preferring advice to the op. That's all well and good, but in the end, only he knows his wife, himself and the situation.

 

Yes, his wife cheated, which was an incredibly rotten and cruel thing for her to have done, but I do think she's not being given a fair shake by a lot of posters. Yes, she committed a very selfish series of acts, but does that automatically make her a horrible person who doesn't care about anyone else?

 

Just as with any human being, the op has likely engaged in less than stellar behavior ( but not cheating). Does that equate to him being unfeeling and self centered? No. It just make shim human.

 

If the op can give a objective view of his marriage and take into account his role and hers, and he feels that reconciliation is what he wants to do, then my feeling is he should be supported in his decision. After all, if he himself, knowing all the ins and outs of his situation, wants to reconcile, then isn't that what matters?

[Overtaxed]

Only OT knows if his marriage deserves a second chance. Only OT knows if he loves his wife enough that he is willing to try again. Only OT knows where he wants to go with his life.

 

I see the reason for cheating; she was selfish, she met a hot guy, she was broken. There is no doubt these are real reasons. However, if this is all we look at she was selfish, met a hot guy, was broken, then we may as well all stay single. We all have these traits. Something deeper caused her to cheat. Probably reasons she does not understand or know why.

 

Does OT want to live with what his wife did? He said it is one more to her number perhaps that is a way to live with it? My wife's number doubled. I think often if you love your partner, you try to find a way to live with it. Would he really be better off if he starts over? That is a gamble. He has to weigh the costs/benefits and do what he thinks is best for his life.

 

Thanks John, you've well captured my mental process. Best analogy I can put together (at 4AM); for the past 15 years I felt like I had a winning lotto ticket in my back pocket, I wasn't gambling, I'd already won. Now, I'm back to where I was before that, sitting at the roulette wheel and getting ready to place a bet on red or black. Which frankly, sucks, when you think you've already won, it's no fun to be back spinning away!

 

I don't think she knows why. I'm pretty good at verbal judo, and I still can't get anything out of her other than what I spoke about before, none of which are a "real" reason. Because she wanted to. That may be the best I ever get. And that's hard as he** to accept, what's to stop her from "wanting to" tomorrow. Or the day after? I so wish it was something "concrete" that I could put my hooks into as something I can fix (or not) and move on. In so many ways, I want it to be "because I was horny". Because that, to me, makes 100% sense. That's why I'd cheat, and, if I did cheat for that reason, I know it would mean nothing to me. Sadly, that's not the case here, this wasn't just a PA.

 

I think your first sentence is the most telling. My marriage does deserve a 2nd chance. I never questioned that, not even when reading the intimate messages back and forth between my W and AP. I'm not without blame in all this, some posters have taken issue with that in both directions, telling me I was totally to blame or that my wife was just a horrible person who needed to go. The truth is more nuanced (seems it always is). No, I didn't cheat. But I was there while our marriage was falling apart (before the A) and didn't do what I should have to help put things back on track.

[Overtaxed]

She is scared to leave though, she needs her hand held, the world is scary place. She chooses to stick around, but my prediction is that IF she meets another more suitable guy, she will be off.

She has also "stupidly" sunk her "huge windfall" into this house, she may not want to give that up, yet anyway...

 

I think your at least partially right here Elaine. This is one of the reasons that quickly after d-day, I outlined to her what a D would look like. You don't have to move, just stay in the house we have now. Keep your car, keep your job; I'll go to the new house and, when this one does sell, you'll have a lot of money to use to buy or rent something new. Remove as much risk and uncertainty as possible for her. Basically, everything remains the same for you except I leave to the new house. Building a "dream" scenario for her to carry on the A, get rid of me, not expose, and basically just "walk away".

 

I want/wanted her to have a great option to get out of the marriage because, if it's not what she wants, I want to know now and get it over with. I tried to make the reality of D as "non scary" as I could, if that's what she wanted, I was going to make it easy, fast, and as painless as possible. It's the only way I could think to find out what she's really after, especially as the band aid came off this gunshot wound.

 

It seemed/seems that's not what she wants. But that's about as "unscary" as I know how to make the world, and it's the real situation, that is what I would have done and she knows it.

[Overtaxed]

Being a people pleaser can lead to consequences. Building up resentment can be one of them, along with depression.

 

Are you a People Pleaser? - How the inability to say "no" can lead to health consequences

 

As I quoted before -

The Infidelity Megafecta

 

"There is often an undercurrent of resentment in the cheater’s decision to have an affair, so affairs commonly have a retributive element to them."

 

These were both great Elaine, I sent both of them to the W and she read them last night. Thanks!

[elaine567]

I think your at least partially right here Elaine. This is one of the reasons that quickly after d-day, I outlined to her what a D would look like. You don't have to move, just stay in the house we have now. Keep your car, keep your job; I'll go to the new house and, when this one does sell, you'll have a lot of money to use to buy or rent something new.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of your finances but if her "huge windfall" paid for the new house then surely it would have made more sense for her to have the new house, no?

[Overtaxed]

I don't know the ins and outs of your finances but if her "huge windfall" paid for the new house then surely it would have made more sense for her to have the new house, no?

 

It was my windfall that paid for the new house Elaine, not hers.

[elaine567]

It was my windfall that paid for the new house Elaine, not hers.

 

Sorry, my mistake.

[Overtaxed]

Sorry, my mistake.

 

LOL, no problem, it's amazing that anyone has the patience to read through this thread at all, let alone retain any of it!

[elaine567]

LOL, no problem, it's amazing that anyone has the patience to read through this thread at all, let alone retain any of it!

~

 

Sometimes scanning doesn't work so well

I just got the impression it was hers, when you said SHE spent loads on the house instead of IVF, but she couldn't really have spent the money on IVF as it was your money and you were not agreeable to the IVF.

[Overtaxed]

~

 

Sometimes scanning doesn't work so well

I just got the impression it was hers, when you said SHE spent loads on the house instead of IVF, but she couldn't really have spent the money on IVF as it was your money and you were not agreeable to the IVF.

 

Ahh, I see, and yes, that was confusing. What I really meant was that the time to talk about IVF was when we got that windfall; she knew we had the money then, and she knew that was a big worry of mine relating to IVF/children. But there was no discussion of that, just of buying a dream home (which, to be fair, I was completely on board with, I never said to her "What about IVF", but would have thought if it was something she really wanted, she would have brought it up).

[Weezy1973]

But I was there while our marriage was falling apart (before the A) and didn't do what I should have to help put things back on track.

 

This is the part I don't get. My understanding is that you felt you win the lotto and had an amazing marriage. So how was it falling apart? Was the marriage a lotto win for you or were you unhappy in the marriage?

 

My point is that your marriage may have been falling apart to your wife, but it was her own doing. And she didn't really let you in on that. On what was going on in her head, like a good partner should. Instead she allowed you to feel you had "won the lotto".

 

And for those saying only you know if you love your wife enough to reconcile...just remember that love is just as irrational an emotion as any. To me your wife is emotionally unhealthy and her actions have been emotionally abusive, both pre A and including the A. I would be urging anyone in a relationsp with an abuser to leave.