Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[Midwestmissy]

I believe what all people are looking for is connection. Perhaps men seek it more sexually and women more emotionally, but it all comes down to connecting and feeling deeply tied to another person. Ideally for me, that means the foreplay, if you will, starts with coffee in the morning and continues throughout the day (checking in, offer to grab dinner, a touch on the shoulder as you walk by, a lot of small things, not grand gestures), and culminates together in bed. It's give and take. And repeat everyday. It wanes and waxes at different parts of life - babies etc, but it's always possible.

 

My wh had a 7 month or so affair and spent 24 hrs a day texting another woman. I felt the disconnect acutely, but couldn't pin point it. But I felt like I was anchorless. He told me I was needy and needed to stop looking to him for my happiness. It was a shock. I was so isolated and rejected. He always had time to make sure his ap heard from him, answered every question text, call. Winky face emojis, you name it. It was insanity. Of course he came home to a hot mess of a wife, he was pouring everything into connecting with another woman, and bingo, he got all the sex he wanted from her as a result. He travels most of the week as well, so I wasn't getting any attention at all, most of of the time, for over 10 years, so I focused on other things, kids, house, garden. But never anything destructive. We finally had teenagers and I had all the time and freedom in the world to focus on us and he cheated. It was the loneliest I have ever been in my life and the biggest slap in the face.

 

My wh was avoiding facing his crap. His (perceived and general life) failures became a reason to resent me instead of making positive changes to his life. He had a failed business, so he decided that I hated him for not making enough money. And he found an ow who believed that he was stinking rich, and she treated him the way he thought a tycoon should be treated. Fantasy. We were broke and I was double parenting (which is a privilege, I might add). What he didn't have in life became my fault. This was all 4 years ago. Imagine where we'd be now if he had come to me and been honest about his fears and we had been a united team instead of him running away? He blew everything up, and he wasn't in love, nor did he respect the ow. His words, she was just easy and believed everything he told her. Looking at himself was too difficult, she allowed him to avoid that, and he almost lost everything as a result.

 

Maybe overtaxed's wife is blaming her "losses" on him and resents him for it. She can either dig deep and own her decisions through therapy (my wh is doing this) or she will continue to avoid her inner issues and carry them into other relationships (how my wh was raised) for the rest of her life and have overtaxed as her scapegoat. This is so common in people 40 and up. Life is hard and we are not always where we envisioned and dreamt we would be, and tick tock, we lash out. But breaking the most secure and true connections we have is a huge mistake.

[Chaparral]

Did you get the Dobson book? There are also religion based books on sexuality that would refute her attitude that she picked up early in life.

 

Doesn't reply sound like she loves you though,are you ok with that.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Chaparral

[Try]

Prince Charming married Cinderella because she was intelligent, fun, good, kind and beautiful NOT because he needed regular sex. It just doesn't fit in with the usual female narrative.

You say that "Prince Charming married Cinderella because she was intelligent, fun, good, kind and beautiful NOT because he needed regular sex" and that "It just doesn't fit in with the usual female narrative". In the male narrative Prince Charming barely knew who Cinderella was, not even her name, much less have time to find out if she was "intelligent, fun, good, kind". All he knew was that she was "beautiful", and that was enough for him to be in love with her enough to want to marry her. Also, in those days he had marry her to have sex with her, which every guy assumes that he did with her the night of the quickly set wedding.

 

BTW, in the original non-Disney version of the story, Cinderella had her step-mother and step-sisters put in prison where they were forced to wear glowing hot cast iron boots. Not exactly what a "good" and "kind" person would do.

[Overtaxed]

Did you get the Dobson book? There are also religion based books on sexuality that would refute her attitude that she picked up early in life.

 

Doesn't reply sound like she loves you though,are you ok with that.

 

No, not OK with that at all. And that's one of the biggest fundamental questions that I need to answer over the next few weeks.

[Overtaxed]

Maybe overtaxed's wife is blaming her "losses" on him and resents him for it. She can either dig deep and own her decisions through therapy (my wh is doing this) or she will continue to avoid her inner issues and carry them into other relationships (how my wh was raised) for the rest of her life and have overtaxed as her scapegoat. This is so common in people 40 and up. Life is hard and we are not always where we envisioned and dreamt we would be, and tick tock, we lash out. But breaking the most secure and true connections we have is a huge mistake.

 

I sincerely believe this is what I'm dealing with. She's mad at me because of kids, mad at me for moving her away from her family, mad at me for not being more emotionally available and probably does, in some areas (kids) feel like I've killed her dreams. Of course, that's only one side of it, because, all of those things were discussed and agreed upon before marriage, but, as has been said here, people change.

 

I hope that her IC does help her (more than "run away") find some peace, what she's blaming on me, in many cases, simply isn't my fault. No matter who she wound up with, kids were very unlikely. And, of course, the affair is absolutely not my fault, which I think she is slowly starting to realize. When she starts to reflect I have a feeling that this is going to hit her like a ton of bricks, no matter what I choose to do (R or D). I expected it to happen faster, I know for me I'd pretty quickly come to the "what have I done to the person I love" stage. She's slower to process emotions, but, hopefully she will get there because, I don't think R is possible if there's still deflection/blame shifting going on.

[ShatteredLady]

I found it incredibly hard to separate any real complaints my husband had from the false justifications he made. I have no doubt that both seemed very real in his head at one time.

 

DK touched on this earlier when he was talking about flying home for his wife's birthday.

 

It was my H Birthday about a month into his affair. I spent weeks preparing with the kids. We made posters & bunting, cards & treats. We made a huge, funny, cute birthday cake from scratch. Bought very thoughtful gifts & even made our own wrapping paper. Even did a playlist of his favorite songs.

 

The next year, come d-day I was accused of being completely thoughtless & never doing anything special or loving for him. I asked for examples & number1 in his head was, "YOU FORGOT MY BIRTHDAY!". Insane? No. Once I read their emails I realized that he had made it such a big deal when his OW asked him about it. He had repeated the 'All neglected & forgotten on my birthday' c**p so often that it had become his reality.

 

He accused me of stopping saying "I love you" before his affair. He was so adamant that I started to doubt myself. I went back through emails. It took 4 weeks to total 100 "I love you", phone messages 3 weeks to 100.

I could tell by his reaction that he was truly shocked that his perception was so far from reality.

 

It's terrifying the mind games that a wayward can play, even with themselves to justify their awful behavior. I do fear what's stuck in his head.

 

He's an atheist but googled scripture to woo her. He loathes country music (favorite bands are Rush & Pink Floyd!!) but pretended he loved it & again googled "country love lyrics"...BUT he also wrote things that hit a nerve with me. He "can't live surrounded by sickness" hits so hard. I know the BS has responsibilities to look at themself & make changes. My 'changes' are simply I keep it myself. I'm so very frightened that my cancer will return but can't share. I do things I shouldn't causing physical agony because I don't want to be seen as a "cripple burden".

 

The bs can tie themselves in knots trying to change things which might not even be real in the first place. Ugh! It's so bloody hard to reconcile. I know everyone says that rugsweeping is wrong...I'm wondering.

[Overtaxed]

I found it incredibly hard to separate any real complaints my husband had from the false justifications he made. I have no doubt that both seemed very real in his head at one time.

 

The bs can tie themselves in knots trying to change things which might not even be real in the first place. Ugh! It's so bloody hard to reconcile. I know everyone says that rugsweeping is wrong...I'm wondering.

 

I can totally see how this could happen, in fact, I can already see it happening in myself. It's easier for the BS spouse to think that there's something they can change/fix about the relationship (and that may be true), but.. In some ways, I think the WS just can't face the truth about themselves. They did it because they "felt like it" and thought they would get away with it (in many cases). Or in other cases, they did it because they wanted out of the marriage. Or because they are sex addict. But, end of the day, I'm not sure there's a lot that many of the BS's could have done to prevent this. In my case, I can see how I could have changed things, but; I honestly didn't know they were such a big issue (perhaps because they weren't until the internal justifications started).

[SweetiePi]

Hi overtaxed.

 

 

Most what you wrote sounds very familiar with someone I know (the way you write things, logical thinking, etc).

 

 

To begin with most men (not all) feel connect by that physical bond. Most (not all) women want to feel emotionally connected to have sex. When there are issues like she is not feeling loved by you, it can create problems like this. What stands out to me the most is that she has had moderate to severe pain during sex. Makes it so hard to want to have sex to begin with. I have this issue too and the only way I could solve it is a lot of foreplay and lubricant (not trying to be graphic here). It is hard to get in the mood when you know there will be tearing (cause of size or sensitivity). She might also still not be physically comfortable with the positions and all the thing you want to try. Also if you are not able to "finish" that could bother her too. It's a boost to know you are able and sexy enough to help your partner like that. I don't think it is unusual for women to not orgasm from sex itself.

 

 

I don't know how much can be said on this board, but I recommend the sexual health forum. You can say pretty much anything there and people are pretty helpful and not shy about it.

 

 

No, I don't think your wrong. I just didn't follow what you were saying, now that I understand..

 

Thank the lord for the Internet where you can stuff like this anonymously!

 

Sex has always been between "some" and "really" painful for my SO. I'm a bit larger than average and she's a bit smaller and, depending on the time of the month, sometimes we just don't fit together well (sorry, this is the best way that I could put it). She never orgasms from sex, which, is a bit unusual given my past experience, but not entirely out of the norm either. I never thought about it one way or the other.

 

However, she's very orgasmic in other ways. And no, I don't think she's faking it, because she's always been this way. Oral sex, it's easy for me to do it a few times with her in 10 minutes. Toys, sometimes she's <60 seconds. And she orgasms during sex all the time using toys, just never without some "help" (which can also be her or my hands).

 

However, did hit on something. And that is that I think she feels, for some reason, guilt that we do things even the least "outside the lines" in the bedroom. She very often doesn't want oral sex (and this has been our entire relationship) and doesn't really enjoy performing it either. Same thing with toys, she's never the one to reach for them, even though both of those things are a guaranteed quick and powerful O for her. I think she feels guilt that she can't "just do it", and her church upbringing taught her that anything but "missionary sex" is wrong. So, I think even though she gets a ton of physical pleasure out of those acts she's conflicted and doesn't like the fact that she can't do it during sex. But no, I don't think she's faking it.

 

Me? Well, I'm a bit conflicted on sex too believe it or not. I love the feeling, but I know that it hurts her. Honestly, I'd just as soon have oral sex as actual sex most nights, but I know she doesn't enjoy performing it (or, more accurately, I think she feels guilty because we're not having sex and guilty because it's oral sex). But actual sex has always been "meh" for me, I don't like hurting women and I know that I do sometimes during the act; and, of course, as soon as I get in my head and think "I'm hurting her" there's no way I can "finish" and I wind up feeling bad about myself. So, I generally try to avoid it more than not so she doesn't associate orgasms and pain.

 

I don't think this is a terribly unusual issue, so I'd be interested to hear what other ladies on here think.

[sandylee1]

Just out of curiosity, why not?

 

If it's because your a stay at home Mom, yeah, I get that. A prenup shouldn't be off the table though, it should just take into account what you put into that relationship (that were non-financial but very valuable). If I was marrying a woman richer than me and she asked for a prenup; I would think "I found myself a smart woman" not be offended in the least.

 

Not an attack, more a curiosity.

 

 

I don't take it as an attack at all, don't worry.

 

I personally think a prenup shows a sign of distrust from the beginning. I can understand how very wealthy people would feel the need to protect themselves though, because maybe they'll think the other person is only after their money.

 

My husband earns more, but not 'I can afford anything I want more'. I'd only expect prenup demands from a man or woman with that kind of wealth.

 

I have no problem with each party keeping everything they came into the marriage with, but once you're married and build a life together, that's a bit different.

 

I don't think it's fair to get an equal split if you don't have children or if you didn't make sacrifices, like give up their career, following the other around the world like many women do.

 

I'm not a SAHM .... I don't think that's a wise thing to do, but I'm the one who couldn't just take any job because of the kids. Being the primary carer (when kids were younger), enabled him to take high flying jobs, travelling abroad with work and taking whatever job he wanted.

 

We both get the same benefit of having amazing children, but it's me that it had more of an impact on.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Sweetiepie, it is sad that sex is only one of the many areas where Overtaxed and his wife were not really compatible. I have mentioned some of the other areas so I wont repeat it here. My point is that both of them and particularly OT's wife knew about these differences especially the major one which was that OT was was not really interested in having children. Apart from the physiological problems both of them suffer from there was this clear stipulation or should I say expression of position by OT that he was not willing to have children. If this was a deal breaker for his then GF/ Fiancee then she should have broken it off with him and looked for someone who was prepared to father children with her. She married him fully knowing what she was getting into. Now, ten years or more later she can hardly hold it against him that he denied her the opportunity of having children. Elaine has suggested that she probably thought that OT would change his mind with the passage of time and accommodate her wishes. That is grossly unfair on her part to expect. You do not get into a marriage thinking that you can change a persons way of thinking or his natural inclinations and traits once you have the person tied to you. It is unfair of either spouse to expect that.

 

Her having an affair to get back at OT is unwarranted and now her behaviour where she is NOT showing true remorse is equally unwarranted. I think OT is being over generous in waiting for her to come out of her fog and see things for what they are. My own opinion is that she is loath to do this because she strongly feels(albeit wrongly) that it is all OT's fault and also because there is no pressure on her to do the 'Heavy lifting' as it is referred to here to make up for her indiscretions. If she is so conflicted by teachings of the Roman Catholic church that she cannot even enjoy sex for what it is and has always been the wet blanket in the bedroom then in my opinion she should have become a nun and remained celibate. The teachings of the Roman Catholic church did not stop her from having sex with another man while being married to her husband. Sex with the OM did not seem to inconvenience her in the slightest and I am sure the OM would have practiced and made her perform all those things that she felt so uncomfortable doing with her husband. My wife is a Roman Catholic and suffers from everything that you wrote about. but it has never interfered with anything we wanted to do. She also has to use lubrication and foreplay etc and although sex was always a bit painful for her she never ever refused to do it. I also would try and make sure that she was as comfortable with things as she could be. As they say where there is a will there is a way.

 

I feel bad for OT that he is getting the short end of the stick here. His wife is the one who stands to lose the most if a divorce takes place and her current standard of living will go out the window. Yet she seems so tardy in doing anything substantial to reconcile and recover the marriage. With that kind of an attitude even OT may finally lose patience and just walk away which would just make her world collapse around her. This is why I am surprised that she is taking her own sweet time coming down to mother earth and putting in the sweat, blood and tears to help save her marriage. I just wish OT and his wife the very best. Warm wishes to all.

[SweetiePi]

Hi Justaguy

 

 

I agree that she should not have married if having children was a deal breaker for her. None of us should expect that to change after marriage when it was talked about before hand. I had a similar experience the first time I was married. My fiancé knew I was unable to have children (had an emergency hysterectomy prior to marrying. 10 years later he decides that he wants a child. It broke my heart and led to a huge emotional distance and bitterness on my part and got angry... he wanted a divorce. I gave him an easy divorce and put up no fight because I felt guilty and ashamed and felt he deserved to explore that part of life. I felt inferior as a wife and woman not being able to give him a child.

 

 

I agree that the bedroom problems are just the tip of the iceberg. She is responsible to be proactive and look for ways to make sex pleasurable (lubricant, see a doctor etc). I sought to find a solution when I was having pain and tearing... I wanted to have that physical, sexual intimacy with my H and put in the effort. OP's wife hopefully will do that for him if she is serious about reconciling.

 

 

Hi Sweetiepie, it is sad that sex is only one of the many areas where Overtaxed and his wife were not really compatible. I have mentioned some of the other areas so I wont repeat it here. My point is that both of them and particularly OT's wife knew about these differences especially the major one which was that OT was was not really interested in having children. Apart from the physiological problems both of them suffer from there was this clear stipulation or should I say expression of position by OT that he was not willing to have children. If this was a deal breaker for his then GF/ Fiancee then she should have broken it off with him and looked for someone who was prepared to father children with her. She married him fully knowing what she was getting into. Now, ten years or more later she can hardly hold it against him that he denied her the opportunity of having children. Elaine has suggested that she probably thought that OT would change his mind with the passage of time and accommodate her wishes. That is grossly unfair on her part to expect. You do not get into a marriage thinking that you can change a persons way of thinking or his natural inclinations and traits once you have the person tied to you. It is unfair of either spouse to expect that.

 

Her having an affair to get back at OT is unwarranted and now her behaviour where she is NOT showing true remorse is equally unwarranted. I think OT is being over generous in waiting for her to come out of her fog and see things for what they are. My own opinion is that she is loath to do this because she strongly feels(albeit wrongly) that it is all OT's fault and also because there is no pressure on her to do the 'Heavy lifting' as it is referred to here to make up for her indiscretions. If she is so conflicted by teachings of the Roman Catholic church that she cannot even enjoy sex for what it is and has always been the wet blanket in the bedroom then in my opinion she should have become a nun and remained celibate. The teachings of the Roman Catholic church did not stop her from having sex with another man while being married to her husband. Sex with the OM did not seem to inconvenience her in the slightest and I am sure the OM would have practiced and made her perform all those things that she felt so uncomfortable doing with her husband. My wife is a Roman Catholic and suffers from everything that you wrote about. but it has never interfered with anything we wanted to do. She also has to use lubrication and foreplay etc and although sex was always a bit painful for her she never ever refused to do it. I also would try and make sure that she was as comfortable with things as she could be. As they say where there is a will there is a way.

 

I feel bad for OT that he is getting the short end of the stick here. His wife is the one who stands to lose the most if a divorce takes place and her current standard of living will go out the window. Yet she seems so tardy in doing anything substantial to reconcile and recover the marriage. With that kind of an attitude even OT may finally lose patience and just walk away which would just make her world collapse around her. This is why I am surprised that she is taking her own sweet time coming down to mother earth and putting in the sweat, blood and tears to help save her marriage. I just wish OT and his wife the very best. Warm wishes to all.

[Overtaxed]

Hi Sweetiepie, it is sad that sex is only one of the many areas where Overtaxed and his wife were not really compatible. I have mentioned some of the other areas so I wont repeat it here. My point is that both of them and particularly OT's wife knew about these differences especially the major one which was that OT was was not really interested in having children. Apart from the physiological problems both of them suffer from there was this clear stipulation or should I say expression of position by OT that he was not willing to have children. If this was a deal breaker for his then GF/ Fiancee then she should have broken it off with him and looked for someone who was prepared to father children with her. She married him fully knowing what she was getting into. Now, ten years or more later she can hardly hold it against him that he denied her the opportunity of having children. Elaine has suggested that she probably thought that OT would change his mind with the passage of time and accommodate her wishes. That is grossly unfair on her part to expect. You do not get into a marriage thinking that you can change a persons way of thinking or his natural inclinations and traits once you have the person tied to you. It is unfair of either spouse to expect that.

 

Her having an affair to get back at OT is unwarranted and now her behaviour where she is NOT showing true remorse is equally unwarranted. I think OT is being over generous in waiting for her to come out of her fog and see things for what they are. My own opinion is that she is loath to do this because she strongly feels(albeit wrongly) that it is all OT's fault and also because there is no pressure on her to do the 'Heavy lifting' as it is referred to here to make up for her indiscretions. If she is so conflicted by teachings of the Roman Catholic church that she cannot even enjoy sex for what it is and has always been the wet blanket in the bedroom then in my opinion she should have become a nun and remained celibate. The teachings of the Roman Catholic church did not stop her from having sex with another man while being married to her husband. Sex with the OM did not seem to inconvenience her in the slightest and I am sure the OM would have practiced and made her perform all those things that she felt so uncomfortable doing with her husband. My wife is a Roman Catholic and suffers from everything that you wrote about. but it has never interfered with anything we wanted to do. She also has to use lubrication and foreplay etc and although sex was always a bit painful for her she never ever refused to do it. I also would try and make sure that she was as comfortable with things as she could be. As they say where there is a will there is a way.

 

I feel bad for OT that he is getting the short end of the stick here. His wife is the one who stands to lose the most if a divorce takes place and her current standard of living will go out the window. Yet she seems so tardy in doing anything substantial to reconcile and recover the marriage. With that kind of an attitude even OT may finally lose patience and just walk away which would just make her world collapse around her. This is why I am surprised that she is taking her own sweet time coming down to mother earth and putting in the sweat, blood and tears to help save her marriage. I just wish OT and his wife the very best. Warm wishes to all.

 

This is pretty much dead on for how I feel and what I'm looking at. And, without going too far off topic, this is one of the big reasons I have a prenup. If I didn't, I'd be thinking to myself "she won't put in the heavy lifting because she's going to be a wealthy woman if she divorces me", or that she is doing it, because she wants the money. With that off the table, it's easier to examine true motives.

 

We spent this entire weekend together and, IMHO, we're starting to get breakthroughs of the real person. More of the truth is starting to trickle out and she's becoming more remorseful. She's still not really there on the blame thing, when she talks about the lead up to the A, it's mostly about what I wasn't doing and how it made her feel. While this is very likely true, what I told her last night seemed to burn through the fog; "Do you think the months leading up to and during the A were "just GREAT" for me??". Of course they weren't. We had a ton of external stress in our lives at that time, and I was keenly aware that our marriage was "in trouble". I just thought it was a speed bump, not a 25 car pile up! But that did seem to have an impact and I think she's starting to see it more clearly. Still not there yet; she told me last night "It's not like we had sex every time we saw each other"; I just looked at her; does that matter in ANYWAY at all?!? Also, "it wasn't about sex", again.. What difference does that make? There was sex, and, frankly, it being primarily an EA is even worse (from the reading I've done) and harder to recover from. But, in some ways, she is right, the EA would be much easier for me to forgive than the PA.

 

Also, I think she's finally starting to realize that the AP wasn't out with good intentions (not that she was either). Asking her about the first time; she claimed sex wasn't in any way discussed or on the table. So I then asked her "where did the condom come from" and she seemed to have a "snap" internally. The AP had the condom with him (he's a married man and has a vasectomy, so not like he had it for "other reasons") and I think that made her start to realize that he was there for sex, even if she wasn't.

 

Man, what a process this has been so far. It's fantastic, someone blows up your world, and you get to play the therapist and try to put it back together for both of you. I just hope that as the fog clears and her emotions return, she's be able to start to carry the bulk of the load.

 

The final thing, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I used to be pretty good at bedding women; I learned "game" at an early age and used it for my own personal gain for years. Many of the books I'm reading are telling you, in essence, to "game" your wife. For those not familiar, it's a group of traits designed to attract someone to you. Push/pull, aloof, direct approaches, etc. The goal is basically to get someone off kilter and make them feel anxiety about your relationship to get them to sleep with you. Anyway, books are telling me that "game" is essential in a relationship; and that I never should have stopped those behaviors when I married. I'm putting some of them back into the playbook and, frankly, it's as effective as I remember. I'm just not sure it's "right", either ethically or the right way to keep a relationship together. It's very manipulative and just feels "wrong" to not let the other person see the "real you" (the person who loves them and would do anything for them; game would tell you never to love them more than they love you, and make them aware you can walk out at any time). A lot of this advice overlaps the "script" that was posted into this thread about how to deal with a WS (drop the hammer on them, file for divorce, put distance, etc).

 

So, what does everyone think? Is this a moral "no go" zone? Or is this what I should be doing to generate and reignite the passion between us? The last thing I want to do here is wind up more morally compromised than I already am, but... If this is what women (or most women) want, I certainly can do it. If I walk out the door, I'm acutely aware that these are the kinds of behaviors that would land me another GF in the future. You can't be an open book with women initially; I just didn't think that extended 15 years into a relationship. But perhaps that was a big mistake on my part?

[Overtaxed]

For those of you who haven't read my story, wife stepped out with a married coworker, had an EA/PA and we're trying to put the pieces back together.

 

Talking with the wife last night, and she let slip (I know this was a slip) that one of our "good" friends was aware that the relationship had progressed into an EA (but not a PA). I let it roll off me like water off a ducks back, but, at the same time, I thought to myself, this friend, who's honestly her closest friend in the world, just let me sit there and do nothing while the EA turned into a PA and now, has blown 4 lives up. And she's a close friend of ours, she spends all kinds of time at our house with her husband, we were there when her first child was born.. I'm just reeling in some ways, how could you NOT tell me??

 

But then, I got to thinking a little more about my circle of friends. If I was out with them and left with a woman that I just met at the bar to head to a hotel, not a single one of them would make a peep. They would, in fact, probably look at me as a "lucky guy" and be jealous of my "success" in bedding some some easy girl at the bar.

 

How in the heck do you deal with this? Yes, friends are supposed to keep secrets for you. But, this!? And how do you square off the distance between a healthy and unhealthy friendship? Because, IMHO, any friend that would keep a secret like this is no friend of the marriage.

 

I've always been very, very careful not to let friends into my life very far; in many ways, because of stuff like this. I know what guys are like when they get together, it's even if there aren't other women involved, it's a non-stop b*tch session about the wives and the lack of love/sex in their relationship. It's so rare to see a man "happy" when they start relating stories about their relationships I, frankly, just don't want to hear them at all. Because, at best, hearing stories about crappy marriages isn't going to put you in the right frame of mind. At worst, hearing stories about "last weekend at the bar, I met this 20 year old..." is going to set you down a path from which there may be no recovery. And I know women are the same way, I've heard too many "You go girl" stories about women confessing an EA/PA to their friends to think that most women are going to look at them and say what they need to hear "You're going to destroy your life, you're husband loves you, you need to stop this right now and get your head out of your a**".

 

Could also be because I'm a hard core introvert.

[d0nnivain]

I think you are trying to shift blame onto your wife's friend. You admit the friend only knew about the EA but not the PA. Her failing to tell you that your wife was talking to another man does not make her toxic. Even if she knew about the PA, IMO it wasn't her place to interfere. You also can't expect that your wife's BFF has more loyalty to you then her. Your premise is unrealistic.

 

 

I know it hurts. I know you want somebody to blame. Because you are trying to put your marriage back together you don't want to continue being angry at your wife but you can't fix what ails you by throwing your wife's friend under the bus here.

[Overtaxed]

I think you are trying to shift blame onto your wife's friend. You admit the friend only knew about the EA but not the PA. Her failing to tell you that your wife was talking to another man does not make her toxic. Even if she knew about the PA, IMO it wasn't her place to interfere. You also can't expect that your wife's BFF has more loyalty to you then her. Your premise is unrealistic.

 

 

I know it hurts. I know you want somebody to blame. Because you are trying to put your marriage back together you don't want to continue being angry at your wife but you can't fix what ails you by throwing your wife's friend under the bus here.

 

Fair enough; however, what about the rest of it? Do you see most friends as "toxic" to a relationship? I know my guy friends are, they would almost all do a "wink, wink, nod, nod" if I were to pick up a girl at the bar while we were out together. I'm just wondering if I need new friends (as does the wife) or if this behavior is to be expected and just part of why friends have to be held at "arm's length" from the relationship.

[d0nnivain]

To me, friends who are toxic to the relationship are ones who are affirmatively working to mess it up or who constantly say bad things about your SO or even who take you away from the marriage too much (those single friends who only want one partner to go out whether to a bar or play golf every weekend).

 

 

Friends who would wink & nod at your bad behavior or fail to disclose a suspected PA aren't toxic per se because their actions are simply passive.

[lolablue17]

Your wife is the one to blame, when she decided to share the information about the affair with a friend that is also your friend. This is something she shouldn't have done.

 

If i was the friend, i would have told your wife that she is a b**** putting me in this situation. I also would have stop coming to your hose and meet you, because of that be because how can I look to you in the eyes as a friend and lie?

 

If this woman chose to visit you and lie to you in the face, well, she made a choice. She is your wife's friend, definitely not yours. Your wife and the friend made a choice - to put the friend in a position where her loyalty is only to your wife - against you. It's very reasonable for you to ask your wife never to invite her when you're there.

[heartwhole]

There are better people than that out there. Perhaps you need to frequent the sorts of places they can be found -- volunteer opportunities, faith communities, etc.

 

When my husband was having an affair he confessed an EA (though it was really a PA) to a couple of friends hoping for their blessing. Instead they urged him to be cautious. None of them were impressed by his screwing up his marriage or nuclear family unit. I've seen the texts from that time from the one mutual friend with the OW he confessed to: "Whoa dude, slow down. Just take a deep breath. Don't do anything rash. Think about what you are doing." Men like that are out there.

 

Our friendships are usually a reflection of the sorts of people we are. Perhaps some cleaning house is in order. Start with centering yourself and finding ways to pass the moments of your life other than hanging out with those sorts in a bar.

[Friskyone4u]

Fair enough; however, what about the rest of it? Do you see most friends as "toxic" to a relationship? I know my guy friends are, they would almost all do a "wink, wink, nod, nod" if I were to pick up a girl at the bar while we were out together. I'm just wondering if I need new friends (as does the wife) or if this behavior is to be expected and just part of why friends have to be held at "arm's length" from the relationship.

 

Overtaxed,

 

You are unfortunately, as many are, in a "grey" area. if this friend was your wife's BEST friend, and not yours, it is not realistic that she is going to come running to you if your wife is flirting with another man. Big difference is you have evidence she was actively ENCOURAGING IT, COVERING FOR HER when she met OM, or was involved in any way in the cheating.

 

Toxic friends are a reality in some situation, and need to be cut out of your life if they truly are contributors. But it appears in your instance, that was not the case.

 

Now that being said, if your wife hooked up with someone at a girls night out, there is no reason you are to be expected to just be fine with her going out with the same women to the same places. unfortunately also, there is a narrative out there that its all just good old girl fun to go out and act single, dance with other men, have other men buy them drinks all night, while hubby sits home like a good boy. and then if you object you are called controlling. Don't buy that crap!!!

 

Your wife crossed a big line and should be bending over backwards for you to give her the gift of reconciliation. And Ok, she keeps her friends who knew ( probably more than this one knew if she was with a group when it happened). but she has to give up something and should want to.

 

as far as your male friends, probably right, they would "wink". But men in affairs are not as likely to sit around and chat with their buddies about their affairs. Women are more open and communicative. There is a difference in our brains unless you refuse to accept what most of the literature says.

 

Lastly, there is nothing wrong with you expressing you discomfort with what occurred. She cheated. You are not the one who should be walking on eggshells.

[Bryanp]

I really feel sorry for you. Her comment that "we didn't have sex every time we met" is mindboggling. This was to make you feel better? If the roles were reversed and you said this to her I doubt that she would have taken it so kindly.

I do not know how you did not walk away at that point. Talk about a wife not getting it.

[BTDT2012]

I think it is up to you to express your disappointment to this mutual friend.

[Whoknew30]

I look at it this way...good friends loyalty is towards their actual friend, not their spouse, same for family. It doesn't make them toxic, it actually makes the person doing wrong (in this your wife) toxic. All my friends & family knew about my A before I told my H, they weren't going to tell on me bc really it wasn't their place. My H also had an A & his friends knew too...then again we've all been friends pretty much our whole lives & they saw us go through hell in many ways & since they loved us both, they just all stayed out of it.

 

I see many spouses take out on family & friends what their WS & it's really silly. It's like blaming A bartender for alcoholism...keep your focus on your issues, which is your wife, not her friend

[Lilyana76]

I wouldn't necessarily consider a friend toxic unless they were actively trying to cause issues in your marriage.

 

The fact that they didn't tell you about an affair, I would just assume was them not wanting to get involved. Would you want to get involved in someones marriage by telling when it had nothing to do with you? Wouldn't you feel uncomfortable if you were the "witnessing" friend and outed your friend.. putting you in the middle of it somewhat.

 

Unless she was driving your wife to meet her AP, then I don't see what you expect her to do. This all lays on your wife, not her friend.

[Overtaxed]

I wouldn't necessarily consider a friend toxic unless they were actively trying to cause issues in your marriage.

 

The fact that they didn't tell you about an affair, I would just assume was them not wanting to get involved. Would you want to get involved in someones marriage by telling when it had nothing to do with you? Wouldn't you feel uncomfortable if you were the "witnessing" friend and outed your friend.. putting you in the middle of it somewhat.

 

Unless she was driving your wife to meet her AP, then I don't see what you expect her to do. This all lays on your wife, not her friend.

 

Good point, although I do think I'll take other's suggestions and let her know how disappointed I am in her. This could have been stopped at the EA stage if she had told me and not moved on to PA; that's really disappointing, especially since I really am a reasonable person. My wife slept with another man in our house and I haven't thrown her out, I sure as heck wouldn't have kicked her out for having feelings towards another man and telling me (or finding out from a friend that something was wrong).

 

I really feel sorry for you. Her comment that "we didn't have sex every time we met" is mindboggling. This was to make you feel better? If the roles were reversed and you said this to her I doubt that she would have taken it so kindly.

I do not know how you did not walk away at that point. Talk about a wife not getting it.

 

Yes, it was to make me feel better. Her intent was to prove "it's not about the sex". The sex is the least of the problems honestly; the biggest problem is the lies/deceit. The fact that while I was working to fix our relationship, she was txting away to another man and moving further and further away. Sex is sex, I get it, I'm a very sexual person, I can see how that could happen (not excusing it per se, just "I get it"). But the other stuff? Bringing him to our home? Missing calls together because you were with him? Making me think I was/am crazy because of all the "history re-writing" going on? That's the stuff that burns right down to the core.

[Whoknew30]

Good point, although I do think I'll take other's suggestions and let her know how disappointed I am in her. This could have been stopped at the EA stage if she had told me and not moved on to PA; that's really disappointing, especially since I really am a reasonable person. My wife slept with another man in our house and I haven't thrown her out, I sure as heck wouldn't have kicked her out for having feelings towards another man and telling me (or finding out from a friend that something was wrong).

 

 

 

Yes, it was to make me feel better. Her intent was to prove "it's not about the sex". The sex is the least of the problems honestly; the biggest problem is the lies/deceit. The fact that while I was working to fix our relationship, she was txting away to another man and moving further and further away. Sex is sex, I get it, I'm a very sexual person, I can see how that could happen (not excusing it per se, just "I get it"). But the other stuff? Bringing him to our home? Missing calls together because you were with him? Making me think I was/am crazy because of all the "history re-writing" going on? That's the stuff that burns right down to the core.

 

It's not a good idea to speak to the friend. It's just completely counter productive & you're worrying about the wrong things. It's no one's job to babysit your marriage. Your only disappointment should be on your wife. Your marriage is no one else's business not responsibility.