Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[elaine567]

My guess is that at some point she gave up on the kids idea, as the OP is an immovable wall and she "self medicated" by putting her all into her life as is, but it wasn't enough, and so when the OM appeared she put her eggs into his basket.

She sounds like a woman who needs her hand held. She can't do the IVF on her own, it is too big and scary but with support she would be all in. The OP is not offering real support, he is only offering logic and reasoning and telling her why it is NOT possible.

That is not good enough long term here.

 

She acquiesces as she has no other option, yes the OP offered her divorce, money and a house but that is not enough for her to jump.

She is not brave enough to go forth in the world on her own, but I think she is a woman who if offered another hand will grab it hungrily...

[Weezy1973]

So she's using me as a scapegoat. And I'm a good one, because, as we've discussed at length, it was never something that was in my plan.

 

And this is okay with you. This is a relationship worth going through the hard work of reconciliation for? Someone who uses her husband as a scapegoat?

 

The reason you divorce her (to answer a previous question) is not for her. It's for you. She's not a good wife.

[Hecan]

( sorry so long but i could just ramble forever). I have watched this thread and truly felt your pain as you post. I know people have empathy for you and your wife but just saying 'divorce her'... Man that hurts my heart for both of you. I am female that is also very logical and work in a male dominated field. That said, I am still female and my emotions can run high.

I don't think anyone can say ' she always wanted kids...yada yada'. People, especially women, really do change. I married young with no intention of children and I was diligent to make sure that didn't happen. My spouse and I were in agreement here At 37 a light switch went off. Literally !!! Lucky for me, my husband was quickly on board and after discussing adoption ( no medical reason , just because ) and the financial ramifications involved decided to try for biological for a determined period of time. We are now parents of a teenager and blessed to have the gift. But you are right. When you are accustomed to expensive vacations, over the top cars etc. things change unless you are extremely wealthy. ( we are above average in income and have been blessed above and beyond what we could imagine but are not what I would term wealthy ). You are absolutely right!!! Things change. Some for the better and some not so much.

Our careers are different, our relationship is different, we still go on really nice international vacations but its different. I KNOW first hand you have to be diligent about your relationship ( ALL aspects if it from financial which I suck at, sexual, time together etc). Please understand, you hang with some bad influences here. Married men complaining about no sex and then not hesitating to get it elsewhere !!! You might need to consider that their wives have a reason for the lack of sex!! I know the book has been mentioned. 'HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS" but it should be mentioned again.

During an extremely horrific time in my marriage this book helped me see what my husband was NOT getting from me and helped us both understand where the other person was.

An A came very close to happening in the midst of it all but didn't.

I know I am rambling here. I have never ever posted on something like this but your situation and your wife just really strikes a cord with me. She had an A. It was wrong!! No question!!! It is obvious it has wounded you deeply BUT You really love her!! And you are willing to see if there is a path to R. That is obvious. A spreadsheet when divorce was discussed!!! Oh man!!! I'm glad you realize how logic on your end crushed her!! But the logical side of me gets it!!

The child thing is obviously an issue and I totally get that biologically it's not likely whether you stay or go!!!

All I want to say s that although people here mean well, they can't know what is best for you both!! 15 years is a long time to throw in the towel although no one could blame you if you did!!!

There are many more hard discussions in your future !!! I hope and PRAY you both find your way to happiness. I have been married for over 30 years and I can honestly say there were points where I was flat on my face wishing it to be over but the joy and the benefits of sticking it out !!! Man they are good and I love my man all the more because if it!!

Wishing you all the best!!!

[oldshirt]

 

You need to stop harping about her agency and take some of your own here. Someone either has to grow some testicles or some ovaries cause this ain't working for either of you.

 

Last week you had a thread that got pulled where you asked why the man always gets blamed when his wife cheats and while the man is held accountable if there is a divorce etc etc.

 

The answer to that question is the same reason that military officers get hung for the war crimes and atrocities of their men and why company CEOs get blamed when the company's stock tank and why coaches get fired at the end of a losing season -

 

It's because the man is typically seen as the "head-of-the-household" and is there for held accountable for the ultimate outcome, even though there may have been countless factors way outside of his control.

 

The feminists and the reformists and the new agers will have us believe this tradition came about due to male oppression and lust for dominance and control.

 

I suspect it's more likely because people have always felt that men had broader shoulders to bear more blame and were more disposable. And many people simply hate to see woman all anxiety ridden and depressed and to see them cry, so they subconsciously want to relieve them of their responsibility and make the man carry it.

 

Yes, that is a big burden and it is often unfair and unjust.

 

But in every group and every organization from a single-family household, to a company, to a military unit, to an entire country; the buck has to stop somewhere and someone has to have the final verdict on what needs to done.

 

Sometimes that person doesn't even need to be "right." Sometimes they just need to be decisive and declare a course of action so that at least something is being done to keep moving forward.

 

In that sense, you will ultimately get blamed and held accountable anyway. Might as well make a decision and declare a course of action that you think will be the best.

 

You have had a long history of lackluster and chronically unsatisfying Sexlife and dis alignment of some very critical and fundamental elements of marriage all along.

 

-- and now she has committed adultery and had an ongoing affair in your own home.

 

You have just and righteous grounds to declare the marriage over and seek a cooperative and fair divorce. There is a high likelihood that both of you will recover quickly and be happier and better adjusted some time down the road, but it will be messy and painful in the moment and you both will be judged and have fingers pointed at you both by the others friends and family in the short term.

 

And you have the right to request a full-faith reconciliation if you want. That option will make the Aunts and grandmothers happy and will earn the 'attaboy's of people that don't walk in your shoes, but it will be a long and arduous process and there will be no guarentees and the chances of ever reconciling all of your fundamental incompatibilities are very slim.

 

But like I said, sometimes just making a decision and moving things forward one way or the other is better than just sitting there accomplishing nothing.

 

When you are going through hell, keep moving.

[Overtaxed]

( sorry so long but i could just ramble forever). I have watched this thread and truly felt your pain as you post. I know people have empathy for you and your wife but just saying 'divorce her'... Man that hurts my heart for both of you. I am female that is also very logical and work in a male dominated field. That said, I am still female and my emotions can run high.

I don't think anyone can say ' she always wanted kids...yada yada'. People, especially women, really do change. I married young with no intention of children and I was diligent to make sure that didn't happen. My spouse and I were in agreement here At 37 a light switch went off. Literally !!! Lucky for me, my husband was quickly on board and after discussing adoption ( no medical reason , just because ) and the financial ramifications involved decided to try for biological for a determined period of time. We are now parents of a teenager and blessed to have the gift. But you are right. When you are accustomed to expensive vacations, over the top cars etc. things change unless you are extremely wealthy. ( we are above average in income and have been blessed above and beyond what we could imagine but are not what I would term wealthy ). You are absolutely right!!! Things change. Some for the better and some not so much.

Our careers are different, our relationship is different, we still go on really nice international vacations but its different. I KNOW first hand you have to be diligent about your relationship ( ALL aspects if it from financial which I suck at, sexual, time together etc). Please understand, you hang with some bad influences here. Married men complaining about no sex and then not hesitating to get it elsewhere !!! You might need to consider that their wives have a reason for the lack of sex!! I know the book has been mentioned. 'HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS" but it should be mentioned again.

During an extremely horrific time in my marriage this book helped me see what my husband was NOT getting from me and helped us both understand where the other person was.

An A came very close to happening in the midst of it all but didn't.

I know I am rambling here. I have never ever posted on something like this but your situation and your wife just really strikes a cord with me. She had an A. It was wrong!! No question!!! It is obvious it has wounded you deeply BUT You really love her!! And you are willing to see if there is a path to R. That is obvious. A spreadsheet when divorce was discussed!!! Oh man!!! I'm glad you realize how logic on your end crushed her!! But the logical side of me gets it!!

The child thing is obviously an issue and I totally get that biologically it's not likely whether you stay or go!!!

All I want to say s that although people here mean well, they can't know what is best for you both!! 15 years is a long time to throw in the towel although no one could blame you if you did!!!

There are many more hard discussions in your future !!! I hope and PRAY you both find your way to happiness. I have been married for over 30 years and I can honestly say there were points where I was flat on my face wishing it to be over but the joy and the benefits of sticking it out !!! Man they are good and I love my man all the more because if it!!

Wishing you all the best!!!

 

Thank you for your post! It's always good to see things like this, I really do appreciate it.

 

LOL about the spreadsheet. I know. It was terrible. I didn't mean it, but it was. I just didn't know how to respond, didn't know what was wrong, and had no idea how to fix it. So I set about dividing it to give her the D that I thought she wanted. Not exactly the response she was looking for, to put it mildly.

[Overtaxed]

My guess is that at some point she gave up on the kids idea, as the OP is an immovable wall and she "self medicated" by putting her all into her life as is, but it wasn't enough, and so when the OM appeared she put her eggs into his basket.

She sounds like a woman who needs her hand held. She can't do the IVF on her own, it is too big and scary but with support she would be all in. The OP is not offering real support, he is only offering logic and reasoning and telling her why it is NOT possible.

That is not good enough long term here.

 

She acquiesces as she has no other option, yes the OP offered her divorce, money and a house but that is not enough for her to jump.

She is not brave enough to go forth in the world on her own, but I think she is a woman who if offered another hand will grab it hungrily...

 

I'd say this is a pretty accurate description of her. And your last comment scares the crap out of me.

 

You really think she'd be "all in" on IVF if I said "let's do it" (and, of course, we BOTH made the sacrifices necessary to go through it, physical and financial)? The more I think about it, the more I wonder. Now, of course, that's what I want to believe, so, it's easy for me to think "sure, Overtaxed, you're absolutely right". But I do have some doubt if she'd really be ready to go through what it takes.

[AnneP]

Thank you for your post! It's always good to see things like this, I really do appreciate it.

 

LOL about the spreadsheet. I know. It was terrible. I didn't mean it, but it was. I just didn't know how to respond, didn't know what was wrong, and had no idea how to fix it. So I set about dividing it to give her the D that I thought she wanted. Not exactly the response she was looking for, to put it mildly.

 

I would do something like this too. Lol

[Sioned]

Man, does the crap never stop for the BS? Not only do you get to help your WS heal, but you also get the fun of being the person to divorce them so that they can go on to lead the life that they want?

 

Why is everyone so convinced that my wife (or women in general) have no agency. She knows where the attorney's office is. She knows what the chances are of us having kids, and she knows what her chances are alone. Why in the heck is it on me to make this decision for her? I'm not saying your wrong, BTW, but blowing off some steam here. I just don't see how this falls in my court.

 

If she wants a D, she should ask for one, not have me "decide it for her". Or, I guess she can just pick back up with the AP, and then I'll make the decision for her. And maybe that's really what she wanted all along, to blow up our marriage so that I'd D her (which was suggested many pages back by another poster, and, in some ways, does make sense)?

 

Sorry - but that is NOT what I said. I don't think you have any responsibility AT ALL to help your cheating wife heal - and to be honest I am actually tired of your insistence that everyone is giving her a free ride here and beating you up cos you are a bloke and you don't want kids and she is a poor woman who just wants kids.

 

I have said twice now that I do not feel your are at fault for a/ the cheating or b/ not wanting kids - and yet you still want to claim that there is some double standard here. Nope. Not from me. I don't care that she is a woman - and I don't care that she desperately wants kids - she cheated on you and for me that would be a deal breaker and I would have filed already. Wanting kids does NOT give her a license to cheat - she SHOULD have divorced you and moved on if it was truly important and you were not willing to entertain options.

 

But she has not done that - which leaves YOU in a horrid position of reconciling with a WS, but still not wanting to go down any route to have children, and not really knowing if the children issue was behind the cheating or not.

 

You want a simple answer - but there isn't one. All I can do is offer my own experience - painful as it has been - and hope that it helps. But I do feel you are at the point where you actually want a specific answer - she should reconcile with you and give up any dream of having children and accept that you are are her only hope of happiness - and anyone who suggests a different answer is somehow siding with your WS because she is woman.

 

I hope you find a way through this where YOU can find some peace and happiness.

[Mr Blunt]

Overtaxed

You seem to almost be at 100% in favor of R. That being the case then I suggest this:

 

1 You have stated a few things that you need to improve on as a married partner. Focus on those things and stop being overly consumed with trying to figure out your wife and change her. NO, I am not blaming you for her betrayal; I am telling you where your actions can have more of an affect to help you and maybe your wife.

 

 

2 Your wife has baggage from her youth (you have named some of them) and now improving those bags is going to come down to her with some outside help guiding her. You can only be a small part of fixing her. You can offer to pay for competent professional help to get her to see what she needs to do for herself so that she can get better than she is right now. You may be able to help her in other ways but the BIG long term emotional and character defects within her are not within your abilities. I say this because you gave us a short history of her childhood, youth, and early adulthood. . Support her in every way that you can but for her big issues you are over your head. You spending too much time analyzing her and trying to fix her will take away time from you being more affective in building yourself up.

 

3 You are wounded and compromising and need to get stronger so that you can be in better shape with an R or a D. I know that you want answers right now but you are not going to get all the answers you want and even if you do your emotions right now are not going to be that reliable to make the right long term decisions. Make a long term plan because your situation is going to be a long term endeavor. It is too early for you to be able to have a clearer picture of what your wife is going to do for the next 5-25 years.

 

You and your wife are either going to take strong actions to improve yourselves or you and/or your wife will do a half-azz job and make your struggles in R or D a lot more difficult. Just remember that you have very little power over your wife’s free will and her decisions to change but you have a LOT of power over you to change. If you and your wife are really determined to improve yourselves then your R will have a much better chance at success.

[Overtaxed]

Sorry - but that is NOT what I said. I don't think you have any responsibility AT ALL to help your cheating wife heal - and to be honest I am actually tired of your insistence that everyone is giving her a free ride here and beating you up cos you are a bloke and you don't want kids and she is a poor woman who just wants kids.

 

I have said twice now that I do not feel your are at fault for a/ the cheating or b/ not wanting kids - and yet you still want to claim that there is some double standard here. Nope. Not from me. I don't care that she is a woman - and I don't care that she desperately wants kids - she cheated on you and for me that would be a deal breaker and I would have filed already. Wanting kids does NOT give her a license to cheat - she SHOULD have divorced you and moved on if it was truly important and you were not willing to entertain options.

 

But she has not done that - which leaves YOU in a horrid position of reconciling with a WS, but still not wanting to go down any route to have children, and not really knowing if the children issue was behind the cheating or not.

 

You want a simple answer - but there isn't one. All I can do is offer my own experience - painful as it has been - and hope that it helps. But I do feel you are at the point where you actually want a specific answer - she should reconcile with you and give up any dream of having children and accept that you are are her only hope of happiness - and anyone who suggests a different answer is somehow siding with your WS because she is woman.

 

I hope you find a way through this where YOU can find some peace and happiness.

 

Sioned:

 

I wasn't saying that you made this my fault (or not intending to). I was speaking specifically to your suggestion: "So - what should you do? YOU divorce HER."

 

My annoyance was not at your post, it was at the expression from a lot of posters that it's my responsibility to divorce her because I don't want children. I realize that it's my responsibility to divorce her because of the A; that makes sense. But in your post your said it was on me to D her because she cheated (which makes sense), but then, in your next sentence, you said that she wants something that I don't and I insist she get on board with that or leave. That indicated to me that you'd made this about "getting on board" with it and that, if she won't, I need to D her. I do see what you're saying, and I think I misread your intention in that post. And my comment about helping her heal was not specifically directed at you, it was an "in general" comment about what's been said in this and other threads; the LS does seem to need to help the WS in many cases to heal from the A. Which seems terribly unfair, but I guess, in this situation, there's no "fair" anymore, only "what needs to happen".

 

But I do feel you are at the point where you actually want a specific answer - she should reconcile with you and give up any dream of having children and accept that you are are her only hope of happiness - and anyone who suggests a different answer is somehow siding with your WS because she is woman.

 

The first part of this is true, I do want a specific answer. Why this happened. How to keep it from happening again. And is this something we can fix. But I'm coming to learn, there is no specific answer; it did happen, and I just need to decide what to do from here (as does she). But that's very hard for me, in my eyes, everything happens for a reason. If the reason was "I was off my medication and having a bit of manic break from reality" (which I don't entirely believe) that's very different than "I never loved you and don't respect you". Same actions (an EA/PA), very different courses forward for me or any other LS.

 

I never said (or didn't intend to imply) that I was her only hope of happiness. I did say that I was her best hope of having her own biological children, which, I do feel is still true. But, we're really splitting hairs here, yes, I could pay for enough rounds to IVF to have a reasonable chance at having a child. But I'm not going to do that, at least not until we've healed from the A and made a decision together that we either do or do not want to do it. So it's a slim chance staying with me. Leaving, yes, she could afford a round or 2 of IVF by herself. But there's a slim chance that would work, and, if it did, I have no idea how she'd support herself. Her job requires a lot of travel, she wouldn't get much from the D because of the prenup, and finding a guy to marry her and go through IVF with in the next few years seems unlikely to me. So, in my eyes, that route is less likely to result in a biological child for her. But, again, splitting hairs; both options are low probability, maybe she wanted the 2nd because she'd feel like she "really tried"?

 

I hope you find a way through this where YOU can find some peace and happiness.

 

Thank you. I am shockingly well "centered" right now. I'm really very surprised. The hell right now for me is the mind movies, I can't let them in because they are just awful. But my emotions and direction forward feel pretty clear to me. I'd say I'm moving towards happiness. Peace with what happened? I think that's a ways off.

[elaine567]

She is not brave enough to go forth in the world on her own, but I think she is a woman who if offered another hand will grab it hungrily...

I'd say this is a pretty accurate description of her. And your last comment scares the crap out of me.

 

...and so it should, as that is where I feel you are headed.

Little has changed here.

YOU actually KNOW that your wife is going nowhere, she doesn't have the courage to do that, does she?

You married an impressionable 22 yo and she has probably never really matured into an independent woman.

So as she can't/wont leave, then you know you can force the sex issue, you can basically ignore the kids issue and you can "logic" your way through your life as you have always done.

 

The problem here is that you can bribe her to stay with material stuff and a great lifestyle, but ultimately YOU do not please her on so many levels, and that is why she will always be vulnerable to the attentions of other men.

She will always be looking for that man who will lead her out of this "unhappy" marriage, and who will give her the support, encouragement and nerve she will need in order to leave you.

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed

You seem to almost be at 100% in favor of R. That being the case then I suggest this:

 

1 You have stated a few things that you need to improve on as a married partner. Focus on those things and stop being overly consumed with trying to figure out your wife and change her. NO, I am not blaming you for her betrayal; I am telling you where your actions can have more of an affect to help you and maybe your wife.

 

 

2 Your wife has baggage from her youth (you have named some of them) and now improving those bags is going to come down to her with some outside help guiding her. You can only be a small part of fixing her. You can offer to pay for competent professional help to get her to see what she needs to do for herself so that she can get better than she is right now. You may be able to help her in other ways but the BIG long term emotional and character defects within her are not within your abilities. I say this because you gave us a short history of her childhood, youth, and early adulthood. . Support her in every way that you can but for her big issues you are over your head. You spending too much time analyzing her and trying to fix her will take away time from you being more affective in building yourself up.

 

3 You are wounded and compromising and need to get stronger so that you can be in better shape with an R or a D. I know that you want answers right now but you are not going to get all the answers you want and even if you do your emotions right now are not going to be that reliable to make the right long term decisions. Make a long term plan because your situation is going to be a long term endeavor. It is too early for you to be able to have a clearer picture of what your wife is going to do for the next 5-25 years.

 

You and your wife are either going to take strong actions to improve yourselves or you and/or your wife will do a half-azz job and make your struggles in R or D a lot more difficult. Just remember that you have very little power over your wife’s free will and her decisions to change but you have a LOT of power over you to change. If you and your wife are really determined to improve yourselves then your R will have a much better chance at success.

 

Thanks for this. I feel like I'm doing most of the things you suggest; I'm focusing on me most of the time, but it's hard, as I'm sure many will agree, to not allow that focus to turn to "us" instead of just me. But I am doing things that are "for me" primarily or exclusively. They feel strange after being with the W for so long, but I do see them as helpful. Especially the stuff that's directly related to us, figuring out how to speak her love language more fluently, learning to "listen, don't fix" when she talks, etc. These things seem to be having a very positive effect on our relationship. And she's doing things too that are having a similar impact, I'm just not sharing them here as much.

 

She's seeing an IC and has been for some time. I do question some of the advice that she's been getting, but we'll be changing all our therapists soon anyway when we move, so I asked her to stay with her existing T for now. LOL at your "spending too much time analyzing". That's not just her. Or just our relationship. That's everything. It's the story of my life. I never take anything at face value and wind up in "loops" all the time trying to figure things out. Most of the time I can, in this case, I cannot, so in the loop I remain. But, point taken, stop looping, start doing things that are more important to me.

 

I am very determined to change myself for the better, either for her or for the next woman. And I do think that she is as well, she's made some big/sweeping changes in the places that matter most to me in our relationship and they have not gone unnoticed. But, again, point taken, I can only change me directly, and I'm trying to do that. I said jokingly, if nothing else, I have to credit the A for getting me in the best shape I've been in a long time. The gym and the bike are my refuge right now (and have been at other points in my life as well, I really enjoy working out) and it's helping both physically and mentally.

[Overtaxed]

...and so it should, as that is where I feel you are headed.

Little has changed here.

YOU actually KNOW that your wife is going nowhere, she doesn't have the courage to do that, does she?

You married an impressionable 22 yo and she has probably never really matured into an independent woman.

So as she can't/wont leave, then you know you can force the sex issue, you can basically ignore the kids issue and you can "logic" your way through your life as you have always done.

 

The problem here is that you can bribe her to stay with material stuff and a great lifestyle, but ultimately YOU do not please her on so many levels, and that is why she will always be vulnerable to the attentions of other men.

She will always be looking for that man who will lead her out of this "unhappy" marriage, and who will give her the support, encouragement and nerve she will need in order to leave you.

 

Man, we're all up early today!

 

You might be right. Although, to set the record straight, she wasn't 22 when we married (but was about that age when we met). We were together a long, long time (as her family loves to remind me) before we married. Marriage was a BIG DEAL to me; I wanted it to be one and done. So many of my friends by the time I hit 30 were either in bad/terrible marriages or already D'ed, I didn't want that to be me.

 

To your last statements, you said "on so many levels", and I'd like to see what you're talking about here. Obviously the discussion about children/IVF is a huge area of disagreement. And I know she's not "pleased" by our differences here. But, outside of that, what else have I mentioned that would indicate "so many levels" that I can't/won't change? I know I screwed up in speaking her love language. I could see that clearly after reading the book. And even more clearly after reading the chats/TXT messages from the AP to her. What looked to me to be complete BS/over the top "player talk" was, in fact, one of the big things my wife was missing in our relationship. I'm happy to change this, it's not at all a deal breaker for me, as I said before, I always thought nice/affirming things about my wife, I just rarely said them because the words, to me, ring hollow. I tried to show her with actions where, in many cases, the words would have been much better.

[wmacbride]

I don't think she "really doesn't want kids". I think she may "not want kids enough to go through what it would take to have them for us". And doesn't want to appear like the "bad guy" who wouldn't do "whatever it takes" to have kids. So she's using me as a scapegoat. And I'm a good one, because, as we've discussed at length, it was never something that was in my plan.

 

Reading through all the posts on here, I think some people are reading waaayyyyy too much into your wife's motives and actions.

 

This is just my opinion, but there is a while lot going on in your situation.

 

SO far the following factors have been brought into play

 

- your wife wants children and you don't. whether she really wants children because she wants to be a mom or there are other factors such as religion, societal pressure, a biological urge that goes against her better judgement or something else at play, I can't say

 

-she's had an affair

 

-she's coping with a mental illness and had stopped her meds. ( I hope she's back on them)

 

- you and she have very different emotional/communication styles. you sound more logical, and she sounds much more emotional- either one is better, they are just different

 

-you've been really hurt and had your trust in her shaken

 

There's likely a whole lot of other issues, just as there are in any marriage.

 

I understand why you want to try an sort through the issue of having children or not as part of reconciling, and I think it's definitely something you two need to sort out.

 

If I were in your position, I would explain to her that, given the upheaval you have both been through, you two need to stabilize more as a couple before you even think about having children through IVF adoption or any other means.

From what you say, ( and please accept my apologies if I have mixed you up with someone else), you indicate your wife is bi-polar, and doesn't like her meds.

If she were to get pregnant, would she have to stop taking them because they could harm the baby? Is she more prone to post partum depression and even post partum psychosis? If she can't get pregnant through IVF , is her emotional health stable enough that she could accept that?

 

In all honesty, in your shoes, I wouldn't even be thinking about having children until you have both have had marriage counseling (and it can sometimes take a couple before you find one who's a good fit for you two) and you both feel you are in a place where you can provide a stable and loving home to a little boy or girl.

 

If you both decide to stay together and not have children, I would suggest that you give her time to grieve losing her dream of being a mom. She will need your support. Given all that you have been through lately and that you need support too, do you feel you are able to be there for her without pushing your own need to the side? Your emotional needs are just as important as hers,and you have been through a lot lately.

 

I'm not saying any of this to minimize your feelings and pain, but rather, if you are going to reconcile, you and your wife are going to have to sort all of this out. If you don't, it's just another type of rug sweeping.

[BluesPower]

wmacbride, That is just a really good post...

 

I also agree that "we" and OP are just way, way to concerned about the WW's issues. Why, in the grand scheme of thing do we really care?

 

I understand that these issues, children and mental illness, are totally valid things to think about, in the future. But honestly, this man (OMG like so many others) has loved, been loyal, and provided his wife with a, frankly, extravagant lifestyle, and she CHOSE to have an affair with a religious trickster.

 

I mean honestly who really cares???? OP is so busy justifying his position and explaining what he thinks about her reasons and position, that even though he does not realize it, he is actually rug sweeping the bigger issue.

 

Here is the issue, the low sex partner in this marriage, had wild monkey sex with OM, while hubby was working his fingers to the bone providing her the lifestyle that she evidently prefers.

 

Am I just way off base here of what? Maybe in my later years my English is just not as good as it used to be???

[oldshirt]

 

I also agree that "we" and OP are just way, way to concerned about the WW's issues. Why, in the grand scheme of thing do we really care?

 

But honestly, this man (OMG like so many others) has loved, been loyal, and provided his wife with a, frankly, extravagant lifestyle, and she CHOSE to have an affair with a religious trickster.

 

I mean honestly who really cares???? OP is so busy justifying his position and explaining what he thinks about her reasons and position, that even though he does not realize it, he is actually rug sweeping the bigger issue.

 

Here is the issue, the low sex partner in this marriage, had wild monkey sex with OM, while hubby was working his fingers to the bone providing her the lifestyle that she evidently prefers.

 

Am I just way off base here of what?

 

 

Nope, you are right on the money.

 

This is what I was getting at in post 654, you just said it a whole lot more concisely and clearly.

 

Most of this thread has been nothing but rug sweeping, Word Soup and pychobabble smoke and mirrors and worrying about what the poor little wifey is going through.

 

At the end of the day this is still a cheating wife who wasn't that into sex with OT but who had ongoing wild monkey sex with some other dude in one of the houses that the OT provided for her that she didn't have to work for.

 

This is a selfish, entitled, cake-eating, rug sweeping, history rewriting, lying, blame shifting cheater, just like all the rest of 'em.

 

She did it because she wasn't into OT sexually, the OM gave her a nudge-nudge-wink-wink, it made her jay-jay tingle and she was horny and she got down with him because she wanted to and got off on it.

 

And now she is boo-hooing because the OM isn't leaving his wife and family and riding up on his big, white horse to take her away and she is backpeddling to keep from losing the lifestyle she has.

 

I also agree with Elaine 100% that she is ripe pickings for the next guy that comes along. If some guy comes along, gives her the nudge-nudge-wink-wink and offers to take her fulltime, all OT will see of her is a line of dust going over the horizon.

 

..,, even if it is to a smaller house, less fancy cars and a much smaller spending allowance and even if she still can't have offspring.

 

(that's the part I don't think OT can grasp)

 

I agree that OT is rug sweeping himself by trying to chart the underground anthill that is her psyche and motive and trying to come up with the mathematical equation that solves the mystery and guarantees the solution for everyone to live perfectly happily ever after.

 

This is really very simple - does he want to put up with a cheat'n wife who lays flat on her back and looks at the clock while he tries to make love to her, who got done riding the OM like a big white horse earlier in the day?

 

Or does he cut his losses, hands over her settlement check and pays the cabbie to drive her away and then goes on to live his own life on his terms and in all likelihood, dates and hooks up with lots of attractive women and most likely finds a decent one that digs him big time and rides him off into sunset like a stolen horse.

 

Either way it's his choice. He needs to just decide what he wants to do based on his wants and needs and then make it happen. As far as I am concerned, she tore up her Wife-Card the moment she put her legs over the OM's shoulders. Her wants and needs don't need to play into OT's decisions anymore. He can choose.

[elaine567]

From what you say, ( and please accept my apologies if I have mixed you up with someone else), you indicate your wife is bi-polar, and doesn't like her meds.

Depression, not bipolar.

[oldshirt]

Either way it's his choice. He needs to just decide what he wants to do based on his wants and needs and then make it happen. As far as I am concerned, she tore up her Wife-Card the moment she put her legs over the OM's shoulders. Her wants and needs don't need to play into OT's decisions anymore. He can choose.

 

I'm just bumping this paragraph because it's my punchline and so it's not lost in the rest of my word vomit above.

 

This is his choice and decision to make based on his needs and what he thinks will be best for him. She's obviously good at taking care of her own needs and feathering her own nest.

 

I'm with Blues, why do we care about her anymore????????????

 

This is OT's thread. He's the wronged party here and he is the one that asked for our help, advice and perspective.

 

IMHO any advice to him should be in regards what he needs to do to protect himself and move forward with what is best for him without regard to what she needs to be fulfilled and happy and whatever. She can start her own thread or she can get a shrink or she can find some other mechanism for that.

[BluesPower]

OldShirt - man you are just so good...

 

I thought I was losing it for a minute. And I know that I am now completely jaded at this stage. But is did not think I was completely crazy yet. I realize it is a thin line, but I was thinking I had not crossed it.

 

And elaine567, your just wonderful. Don't you think that you should admit that you have a photographing memory? It is nothing to be ashamed of...

 

OT, please listen to OS, he is a very wise man...

 

What are you going to do?

[BTDT2012]

Overtaxed, you can't fix your wife. You are logical, and you are looking for the logic in this situation. Your wife has to do the work to address her issues. She is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat on you.

 

The only person that you can control is you. The only way that you can successfully reconcile is for BOTH of you to be committed to reconciliation. What you have to figure out is what is best for YOU. There is nothing that you can do to ensure that she never cheats again. It s up to her to prove to you that she is worthy of reconciliation. And deciding to try to reconcile is not an irrevocable decision.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Mr Blunt]

By Overtaxed

LOL at your "spending too much time analyzing". That's not just her. Or just our relationship. That's everything. It's the story of my life. I never take anything at face value and wind up in "loops" all the time trying to figure things out. Most of the time I can, in this case, I cannot, so in the loop I remain. But, point taken, stop looping, start doing things that are more important to me.

 

By Blunt

I spotted this with you because I was the same way. Analyzing is good to a point but to overdo it will take away from the most important things that will help you the most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Overtaxed

I am very determined to change myself for the better, either for her or for the next woman.

I have to credit the A for getting me in the best shape I've been in a long time.

 

 

By Blunt

That is what I did! Use your hyper motivation, generated by the A, to improve yourself in all ways, body, mind, spirit!....You probably will never be this motivated so utilize this energy to make things better. You can gain in a lot of ways that will compensate for your losses. Stay away from hate and vengeance.

[oldshirt]

 

#1.Overtaxed, you can't fix your wife.

 

#2You are logical, and you are looking for the logic in this situation.

 

#3 Your wife has to do the work to address her issues.

 

#4.She is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat on you.

 

#5.The only person that you can control is you.

 

#6.The only way that you can successfully reconcile is for BOTH of you to be committed to reconciliation.

 

#7.What you have to figure out is what is best for YOU.

 

#8. There is nothing that you can do to ensure that she never cheats again.

 

#9.It s up to her to prove to you that she is worthy of reconciliation.

 

#10.deciding to try to reconcile is not an irrevocable decision.

 

 

 

#1. excellent point. let it sink in real good.

 

#2. Logic would dictate looking at all the facts and the facts do not point to much hope here. But as I mentioned earlier, many of these matters are of the heart and loins and logic isn't always relevant.

 

#3. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#4. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#5. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#6. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#7. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#8. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#9. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#10. this is an excellent point and you should let it sink real well and I think it is also a point that we often overlook. I think most people will initially jump to trying to put out the fire and fix the problem. We as a society are conditioned to "work on it." It is often a knee jerk reaction. But please understand that even if your initial instincts are to try to "save the marriage," you may quickly (or even years later) realize that it can't be saved or even shouldn't be saved. There is no statute of limitations. People can pull the plug years down the road.

[wmacbride]

wmacbride, That is just a really good post...

 

I also agree that "we" and OP are just way, way to concerned about the WW's issues. Why, in the grand scheme of thing do we really care?

 

I understand that these issues, children and mental illness, are totally valid things to think about, in the future. But honestly, this man (OMG like so many others) has loved, been loyal, and provided his wife with a, frankly, extravagant lifestyle, and she CHOSE to have an affair with a religious trickster.

 

I mean honestly who really cares???? OP is so busy justifying his position and explaining what he thinks about her reasons and position, that even though he does not realize it, he is actually rug sweeping the bigger issue.

 

Here is the issue, the low sex partner in this marriage, had wild monkey sex with OM, while hubby was working his fingers to the bone providing her the lifestyle that she evidently prefers.

 

Am I just way off base here of what? Maybe in my later years my English is just not as good as it used to be???

 

The op has clearly stated he wants to reconcile, and I'm trying to support him in that. He's got so much on his plate, and it's going to take a long time to sort it all out.

 

If he is going to reconcile, all of the issues in their marriage will need to be addressed, starting with the affair. How he does that will depend on many factors, including his own temperament. I could be completely wrong, but he strikes me as someone who knows his own mind and gives careful consideration before ha acts.

[wmacbride]

I'm just bumping this paragraph because it's my punchline and so it's not lost in the rest of my word vomit above.

 

This is his choice and decision to make based on his needs and what he thinks will be best for him. She's obviously good at taking care of her own needs and feathering her own nest.

 

I'm with Blues, why do we care about her anymore????????????

 

This is OT's thread. He's the wronged party here and he is the one that asked for our help, advice and perspective.

 

IMHO any advice to him should be in regards what he needs to do to protect himself and move forward with what is best for him without regard to what she needs to be fulfilled and happy and whatever. She can start her own thread or she can get a shrink or she can find some other mechanism for that.

 

If he was divorcing, you'd be spot on.

 

The fact is he has said he wants to reconcile, and is trying to work his way through that. Demonizing his wife isn't going to solve or change anything.

 

 

I'm saying this as someone who was cheated on. I get how painful it is, and how fundamentally unfair it is that the bs should have to be considering the feelings of their ws after all they have put them through.

[harrybrown]

is she still addicted to the OM? or will she lie to you some more?

 

 

 

Did she pass the poly that this is her only A?

 

I do wish you well, but somehow she still has feelings for the OM.

 

She may tell you otherwise, but she is addicted and can't get enough of her drug.