Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[oldshirt]

 

#1.Overtaxed, you can't fix your wife.

 

#2You are logical, and you are looking for the logic in this situation.

 

#3 Your wife has to do the work to address her issues.

 

#4.She is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat on you.

 

#5.The only person that you can control is you.

 

#6.The only way that you can successfully reconcile is for BOTH of you to be committed to reconciliation.

 

#7.What you have to figure out is what is best for YOU.

 

#8. There is nothing that you can do to ensure that she never cheats again.

 

#9.It s up to her to prove to you that she is worthy of reconciliation.

 

#10.deciding to try to reconcile is not an irrevocable decision.

 

 

 

#1. excellent point. let it sink in real good.

 

#2. Logic would dictate looking at all the facts and the facts do not point to much hope here. But as I mentioned earlier, many of these matters are of the heart and loins and logic isn't always relevant.

 

#3. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#4. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#5. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#6. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#7. excellent point. let it sink in real well.

 

#8. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#9. excellent point. Let it sink in real well.

 

#10. this is an excellent point and you should let it sink real well and I think it is also a point that we often overlook. I think most people will initially jump to trying to put out the fire and fix the problem. We as a society are conditioned to "work on it." It is often a knee jerk reaction. But please understand that even if your initial instincts are to try to "save the marriage," you may quickly (or even years later) realize that it can't be saved or even shouldn't be saved. There is no statute of limitations. People can pull the plug years down the road.

[wmacbride]

wmacbride, That is just a really good post...

 

I also agree that "we" and OP are just way, way to concerned about the WW's issues. Why, in the grand scheme of thing do we really care?

 

I understand that these issues, children and mental illness, are totally valid things to think about, in the future. But honestly, this man (OMG like so many others) has loved, been loyal, and provided his wife with a, frankly, extravagant lifestyle, and she CHOSE to have an affair with a religious trickster.

 

I mean honestly who really cares???? OP is so busy justifying his position and explaining what he thinks about her reasons and position, that even though he does not realize it, he is actually rug sweeping the bigger issue.

 

Here is the issue, the low sex partner in this marriage, had wild monkey sex with OM, while hubby was working his fingers to the bone providing her the lifestyle that she evidently prefers.

 

Am I just way off base here of what? Maybe in my later years my English is just not as good as it used to be???

 

The op has clearly stated he wants to reconcile, and I'm trying to support him in that. He's got so much on his plate, and it's going to take a long time to sort it all out.

 

If he is going to reconcile, all of the issues in their marriage will need to be addressed, starting with the affair. How he does that will depend on many factors, including his own temperament. I could be completely wrong, but he strikes me as someone who knows his own mind and gives careful consideration before ha acts.

[wmacbride]

I'm just bumping this paragraph because it's my punchline and so it's not lost in the rest of my word vomit above.

 

This is his choice and decision to make based on his needs and what he thinks will be best for him. She's obviously good at taking care of her own needs and feathering her own nest.

 

I'm with Blues, why do we care about her anymore????????????

 

This is OT's thread. He's the wronged party here and he is the one that asked for our help, advice and perspective.

 

IMHO any advice to him should be in regards what he needs to do to protect himself and move forward with what is best for him without regard to what she needs to be fulfilled and happy and whatever. She can start her own thread or she can get a shrink or she can find some other mechanism for that.

 

If he was divorcing, you'd be spot on.

 

The fact is he has said he wants to reconcile, and is trying to work his way through that. Demonizing his wife isn't going to solve or change anything.

 

 

I'm saying this as someone who was cheated on. I get how painful it is, and how fundamentally unfair it is that the bs should have to be considering the feelings of their ws after all they have put them through.

[harrybrown]

is she still addicted to the OM? or will she lie to you some more?

 

 

 

Did she pass the poly that this is her only A?

 

I do wish you well, but somehow she still has feelings for the OM.

 

She may tell you otherwise, but she is addicted and can't get enough of her drug.

[oldshirt]

If he was divorcing, you'd be spot on.

 

The fact is he has said he wants to reconcile, and is trying to work his way through that. Demonizing his wife isn't going to solve or change anything.

 

 

I'm saying this as someone who was cheated on. I get how painful it is, and how fundamentally unfair it is that the bs should have to be considering the feelings of their ws after all they have put them through.

 

I'm not demonizing her....I'm disregarding her.

 

If he wants to rec that is his choice and prerogative.

 

I've followed this thread from the beginning and like many others, I got sucked into trying to make wild guesses as to why she would doing what she was doing and how things would effect her and what some things that might help her might be. I got sucked into what new dance steps he should learn to do the "Pick Me! Dance" better.

 

Done with that.

 

Don't care about her no mo.'

 

My advice to him is to do what he thinks is in his best interests for him. If that means reconciliation and it works out best for her as well, then that is great and it's awesome that everything worked out for everyone.

 

If he thinks it's in his best interests to divorce, then so be it. Don't settle for anything less than what he is entitled and live single life to it's fullest.

 

Either way, my admonition is to do what he thinks is in his best interests for him and let the chips fall however they may for her. She has feathered her nest well for 20 years and chosen her destiny. She'll be fine either way.

 

She played her cards and played her hand.

 

Now it's time for him to play his.

[wmacbride]

I'm not demonizing her....I'm disregarding her.

 

If he wants to rec that is his choice and prerogative.

 

I've followed this thread from the beginning and like many others, I got sucked into trying to make wild guesses as to why she would doing what she was doing and how things would effect her and what some things that might help her might be. I got sucked into what new dance steps he should learn to do the "Pick Me! Dance" better.

 

Done with that.

 

Don't care about her no mo.'

 

My advice to him is to do what he thinks is in his best interests for him. If that means reconciliation and it works out best for her as well, then that is great and it's awesome that everything worked out for everyone.

 

If he thinks it's in his best interests to divorce, then so be it. Don't settle for anything less than what he is entitled and live single life to it's fullest.

 

Either way, my admonition is to do what he thinks is in his best interests for him and let the chips fall however they may for her. She has feathered her nest well for 20 years and chosen her destiny. She'll be fine either way.

 

She played her cards and played her hand.

 

Now it's time for him to play his.

 

If someone is going to proceed in their marriage with the attitude that the only thing that matters is themselves, then why even bother? Divorce now.

[oldshirt]

If someone is going to proceed in their marriage with the attitude that the only thing that matters is themselves, then why even bother? Divorce now.

 

Well..... There is that.

 

Your point is valid.

 

..... But isn't that the attitude the cheater has when they bring the AP into the house when the BS is working?

[Overtaxed]

After reading probably close to 100 stories here, it's amazing how predictible the actions of the WS, BS, and AP are. It's like we're all running the same scripts, just slight different versions. Kind of sad when you think about it, how ingrained so much behavior really is.

 

Anyway, on to my question. My WW has followed most of the script pretty much word for word. Blame shifting, minimizing, trickle truth. Pretty much on schedule and as expected. However, one thing that I've read, am terrified of, and have not seen at all is her being unable to let go of the AP. At d-day, I told her to reach out to him and say goodbye. She did, and then sent him a picture the next day (nothing sexual). And that was it. No further contact. He's not tried to contact her, she's not tried to contact him. Total "drop".

 

Before everyone tells me "she has a burner" or "she's using WhatsApp instead of Gmail messenger", let me tell you, I work in cyber security. I'd know. I'd know if she brought a burner into the house, even if I didn't see it (the ESN would show up). I've got what I'd consider complete electronic surveillance in place; the only way I can figure they could still be in contact is if they are sending hand written letters to one another from work; that's the only way I wouldn't catch it.

 

So, question is, what's going on here? Is this a good sign (she wants to R)? Or is this just "laying in wait" for me to get lazy? Or something else? I'm not "worried" about it; but I am a bit shocked because it's not the "script' and so much of that script has been, word for word, carried out by both of us over the last 2 months.

[bigman1]

I would just point out that your wife sent the AP a picture. Your takeaway is that it was not "sexual", so somehow that is a good thing. Wow! Wow!! WOW!!!

 

It was not a good thing. It was not a farewell. It was not a NC ending. It was a "here is a picture of me, don't forget me, this is not over" gesture. She did it with your full knowledge, so she already tested you and knows where you stand and your resolve (lack).

 

She is placating you because you will accept that.

[elaine567]

She is still working with him?

[Marc878]

If they do work together the sffair continues.

 

Most companies do have land lines

[Marc878]

I'll say this sending OM A picture after day for no contact is pretty telling where she's at

[Dub]

may I ask what is the point in this? Why would you want to be married to someone you have to put surveillance on? According to this thread, she is Blame shifting, minimizing, and trickle truthing you, and even sent the guy she screwed in your house a picture. Are you scared you can't find someone new?

[lolablue17]

There is no script for that. The script you're talking about sometimes happen because people tend to behave through general patterns when they're hungry, when they're happy, when they get caught.

 

Scripts can help you to analyze everything and to know which things to expect to likely to happen.

 

In your situation, your wife may have devided to cut all contact and that is that. It may last for ever and it can last only till tommorow. There's no script to predict that.

 

When I'm in crisis, I focus more on trying to figure out the reliability of the other person's responses. For example, infidelity is not necessarily a deal breaker for me, trickle truth indeed is. I could have never stayed with someone who would use trick truth after being caught. This is the main test for me and if she fails, it would be the end.

[Overtaxed]

I'll say this sending OM A picture after day for no contact is pretty telling where she's at

 

It was a day after d-day. I told her she needs to break it off with him, but hadn't laid down the "NC rules" yet.

 

may I ask what is the point in this? Why would you want to be married to someone you have to put surveillance on? According to this thread, she is Blame shifting, minimizing, and trickle truthing you, and even sent the guy she screwed in your house a picture. Are you scared you can't find someone new?

 

I have surveillance on her to figure out if she is someone I want to be married to, not because I want to be married to someone I have to do this with long term. She's proven herself an adept liar, so I need to verify what she's saying; that's why I've done it, not because I want to live like this long term.

 

No, I'm not scared about finding someone new. If you read my posts, low self-esteem/self-image is not one of my issues. I'm concerned about finding someone better. Sure, I can find someone who wants to have "wild monkey sex" 3 times a day, at least in the beginning of the relationship. But will she have the same positive characteristics that my pre-A wife had? I'm not thinking I'd be that lucky twice. But, to be clear, I'm a relatively (and would be after a D as well) wealthy, 40 year old man who's attractive with no kids and "has his life together". I know, intellectually, that I'd be an attractive partner on the dating market. It's just not what I really want.

 

If they do work together the sffair continues. Most companies do have land lines

 

They don't work together. And.. Without saying too much, I'd know, even on the company landline.

 

I would just point out that your wife sent the AP a picture. Your takeaway is that it was not "sexual", so somehow that is a good thing. Wow! Wow!! WOW!!!

 

It was not a good thing. It was not a farewell. It was not a NC ending. It was a "here is a picture of me, don't forget me, this is not over" gesture. She did it with your full knowledge, so she already tested you and knows where you stand and your resolve (lack).

 

It wasn't a picture of her, it was a picture of the beach. She did not know that I'd compromised those accounts, so she had no way of knowing that I'd know she sent that picture. And I waited weeks after that before asking her when the "real last contact" was. She admitted that she'd sent him a picture the day after d-day without knowing that I already knew that. That, to me, was telling. She has no idea how much access I have; this is what I do for a living, and I'm pretty good at it, but I don't think she has any idea how deep the web runs; I've compromised my moral position here a bit, but I've gone after (and gotten almost all of them) everyone in her life who she might reach out to in order to talk about this or attempt to get a message to the AP. The only thing I really couldn't catch would be a hand written note sent by the USPS. I'm confident in the NC, and also confident that she's telling me the truth about her day to day activities.

 

In your situation, your wife may have devided to cut all contact and that is that. It may last for ever and it can last only till tommorow. There's no script to predict that.

 

Agreed, but it seems that a lot of WS's really struggle with NC, having sporadic contact for long periods of time after the A is over until it either flares back up or finally dies a natural death. That's kind of what I expected (and I would D her if that was the case). And not what I've seen.

[wmacbride]

Well..... There is that.

 

Your point is valid.

 

..... But isn't that the attitude the cheater has when they bring the AP into the house when the BS is working?

 

I can understand where you are coming from, and what you say does make a lot of sense.

 

I'm just saying that part of reconciling will be figuring out the state of their marriage and the issues that will have to deal with. The affair comes first, but once that has been addressed, there are other issues they will need to work through.

[wmacbride]

I've never been a ws, so I can only guess at what goes through their minds.

 

I don't know why the op's wife had an affair or why she was able to end it as abruptly as she did.

 

It's juts my opinion, but a big part of reconciling is for a ws to figure out why they cheated so that they can put in the work of addressing why they cheated. I know some say "it just sort of happened" while others go looking for it.

 

Op, has your wife ever given you what you consider to be an honest answer as to why she allowed herself to make the decision cheat? I wonder if she even knows herself.

[Overtaxed]

I've never been a ws, so I can only guess at what goes through their minds.

 

I don't know why the op's wife had an affair or why she was able to end it as abruptly as she did.

 

It's juts my opinion, but a big part of reconciling is for a ws to figure out why they cheated so that they can put in the work of addressing why they cheated. I know some say "it just sort of happened" while others go looking for it.

 

Op, has your wife ever given you what you consider to be an honest answer as to why she allowed herself to make the decision cheat? I wonder if she even knows herself.

 

I honestly don't think she knows. Some of the answers she gave; she didn't think I loved her, and she thought our marriage was over anyway. Both of those answers are complete BS, and I think she sees it now; I was working hard to try to fix things, and although we'd discussed D, our marriage was not "over".

 

I doubt I'll ever get an answer here that will satisfy me. I want something simple. "I was horny". "I was drunk". Something that "makes sense" to me (a guy). I want it to be simple, in truth, I don't think it is. Except what others have said, which is certainly true, but doesn't help figure anything out. "Because she wanted to".

[Mrs. John Adams]

The other day I was thinking about the why's? Of infidelity...

 

And it occurred to me that WHY is most likely the most difficult question to answer... both for the bs and the ws

 

And it's a question that seems to haunt us forever ... and honestly... I am not sure we can ever really answer it to complete satisfaction.

 

 

I had a very brief affair... two years later my husband had a very brief revenge affair. It is easy to figure out why he cheated... but 33 years later I still can't tell him why I did... and I still see the hurt in his eyes when we happen to discuss it.

 

The one thing forums does it keep communication going for us... but I am not sure it is always a good thing.

 

Op...I abruptly stopped seeing my ap... and I have never looked back.

 

Please accept that gift from her... and please stop questioning it and dissecting and asking others their opinions about it... because everything said is speculation.

 

None of us know her mind or her intentions..

 

If your gut tells you it isn't real .. then believe your gut

 

But none of us is certain what she is thinking or what she is doing

 

You made a statement that all of us follow a similar path

 

And in many ways we do I guess have similarities but each of us is also different and while your wife and I are both waywards... we are different and you cannot base your assessment of her based on my experiences.

 

I guess my true point is this.. you are both new at this ... and you will both make many mistakes. This path you are on is very difficult... but accept the things she does that clearly say to you she is trying... and if you don't see that she is sincere .. then you have the power to close the door to this relationship

Edited February 24, 2017 by Mrs. John Adams

[Weezy1973]

No, I'm not scared about finding someone new. If you read my posts, low self-esteem/self-image is not one of my issues. I'm concerned about finding someone better. Sure, I can find someone who wants to have "wild monkey sex" 3 times a day, at least in the beginning of the relationship. But will she have the same positive characteristics that my pre-A wife had? I'm not thinking I'd be that lucky twice.

 

So what are those positive characteristics so unique to your wife that other women don't have? From what you've described, I can't see many. Even before the affair.

 

She's attractive. But she doesn't like sex (with you at least). She hasn't been honest or open about her desire or lack of desire for wanting children. Openness and honesty of course being cornerstones of good relationships.

 

She is an adept liar as you've pointed out. So again, very divorce worthy.

 

You've described her as a "people pleaser" and if you know anything about people pleasers, they're do it because of how it makes them look, not out of genuine care and compassion for others.

 

And of course then she cheated.

 

So what are all those positive characteristics that your wife has that you won't be able to find in another woman?

[Whoknew30]

The other day I was thinking about the why's? Of infidelity...

 

And it occurred to me that WHY is most likely the most difficult question to answer... both for the bs and the ws

 

And it's a question that seems to haunt us forever ... and honestly... I am not sure we can ever really answer it to complete satisfaction.

 

 

I had a very brief affair... two years later my husband had a very brief revenge affair. It is easy to figure out why he cheated... but 33 years later I still can't tell him why I did... and I still see the hurt in his eyes when we happen to discuss it.

 

The one thing forums does it keep communication going for us... but I am not sure it is always a good thing.

 

Op...I abruptly stopped seeing my ap... and I have never looked back.

 

Please accept that gift from her... and please stop questioning it and dissecting and asking others their opinions about it... because everything said is speculation.

 

None of us know her mind or her intentions..

 

If your gut tells you it isn't real .. then believe your gut

 

But none of us is certain what she is thinking or what she is doing

 

You made a statement that all of us follow a similar path

 

And in many ways we do I guess have similarities but each of us is also different and while your wife and I are both waywards... we are different and you cannot base your assessment of her based on my experiences.

 

I guess my true point is this.. you are both new at this ... and you will both make many mistakes. This path you are on is very difficult... but accept the things she does that clearly say to you she is trying... and if you don't see that she is sincere .. then you have the power to close the door to this relationship

 

 

This perplexes me when someone says "I don't know why I had an A" but not just that, it also perplexes me that even when a WS gives their reasoning for having an A & their reason isn't excepted.

 

 

There's only so many options to why a person has an A...either something is broken inside of them & they needed/wanted that extra attention for their self esteem, they were really just hot for the other person & didn't think they'd be caught, completely unhappy in their relationship & or they really fell for their AP at the time of the A...the feelings caused by an A are difficult & complex but the actual reasoning for an A is made more complicated then it needs to be, IMO.

 

I dont buy for one second "I don't know why" if you someone has unforced sex with someone, then it's simply bc they were hot for that person, at that moment & turned on & wanted to have sex...it's not very complicated. That's were the selfish comes in, most aren't thinking of their BS & or kids when turned on at that moment...not saying it's right just stating logic.

[elaine567]

 

You've described her as a "people pleaser" and if you know anything about people pleasers, they're do it because of how it makes them look, not out of genuine care and compassion for others.

 

That is not necessarily true.

They do it out of a fear of failure or a fear of rejection. They feel obliged to make everyone happy and not disappoint anyone.

[Mrs. John Adams]

This perplexes me when someone says "I don't know why I had an A" but not just that, it also perplexes me that even when a WS gives their reasoning for having an A & their reason isn't excepted.

 

 

There's only so many options to why a person has an A...either something is broken inside of them & they needed/wanted that extra attention for their self esteem, they were really just hot for the other person & didn't think they'd be caught, completely unhappy in their relationship & or they really fell for their AP at the time of the A...the feelings caused by an A are difficult & complex but the actual reasoning for an A is made more complicated then it needs to be, IMO.

 

I dont buy for one second "I don't know why" if you someone has unforced sex with someone, then it's simply bc they were hot for that person, at that moment & turned on & wanted to have sex...it's not very complicated. That's were the selfish comes in, most aren't thinking of their BS & or kids when turned on at that moment...not saying it's right just stating logic.

 

Most people want an answer deeper than .. because I wanted to... because I was selfish ... because I was unhappy...

 

Why? I simply don't know... I was happily married... my husband was good to me...so why? I cannot answer that with a truly acceptable answer.

 

You may be able to.. his wife may eventually be able to figure it out and have an acceptable answer for him

 

But I can't

[elaine567]

I dont buy for one second "I don't know why" if you someone has unforced sex with someone, then it's simply bc they were hot for that person, at that moment & turned on & wanted to have sex...it's not very complicated. That's were the selfish comes in, most aren't thinking of their BS & or kids when turned on at that moment...not saying it's right just stating logic.

 

I agree, I think "I don't know why" is an attempt to appease the BS and not hurt them with the actual truth.

 

We (gen.) tend to use "I don't know why" as an excuse to avoid the truth and to avoid looking bad.

The lie - "I don't know why I stole your bf, really I don't"

The truth - "Well actually I do, he is soo hot and I wanted him. I knew it would upset you but I really really wanted to upset you, as I do not actually like you that much..."

[BTDT2012]

If someone is going to proceed in their marriage with the attitude that the only thing that matters is themselves, then why even bother? Divorce now.

There is a difference putting yourself first, and saying that you are the only thing that matters. My husband cheated, I now always consider first what is best for me, not for him or the marriage.