Low sex partner in affair. Fresh d-day

[ShatteredLady]

The "cold & clinical", logical, rational side of you is going to find it VERY hard to understand why she had an affair! It makes zero sense.

 

My husband described himself as a "giant insect" whilst committing adultery. Not thinking, just reacting in the moment. Step by step he ripped my life apart & shattered me. I don't believe either of us will ever be able to answer "Why?". Any words put to it are simply justifications after the fact.

 

For me, they way he treated (emotionally & verbally abused) me whilst he was gaslighting is the hardest thing to get over. He doesn't really remember half of the things he said or did. Those he does recall he describes as an "almost out of body experience". He can't tell me WHY. I have my rational theories. He says that he has a darkness inside....that's a cop out but this isn't about him.

 

I believe, like any prolonged wrongdoing, it's self justification (lies one tells to themself) & a fundamentally selfish high. I cry & ask my husband "Why didn't you stop to think how it would effect me?". His answer is simple, "I never thought that you would find out!".

 

I demanded that he read articles on the cruelty of trickle-truth & gas-lighting. His response..."What choice did I have? I didn't want to hurt you more. I needed to keep my secrets. I was frightened of your response".

 

Oh I don't know. It just bloody hurts so much!

[ShatteredLady]

...anyway, I DO NOT believe that she did this to have a child. She doesn't want HIS child. What's being suggested is, the desperate want & need for a child created the mental condition for her to be more vulnerable to persuing the escapism of an affair.

[Cephalopod]

I want to say this directly, and please forgive me if I sound harsh, but your wife is not low-drive. She likes sex. She just doesn't like sex with you. Women marry men who they are not sexually compatible with all the time. They marry men who they are not physically attracted to...all the time. It's not fair, but some women like one man for security and companionship and another man for sex. She loves you, but she doesn't love you as a lover. My exWW was such a woman, except mine had no conscience or morals.

 

I would jack her up hard for this, and ask her why the hell she would marry you if she wasn't attracted to you.

[aliveagain]

You hesitate to talk about the divorce option at this time because you love her so much yet she never hesitated with all that love to bring a nasty POS into your home and your sanctuary(your bed) and repeatedly have(unprotected) sex with him. Trust me as a betrayed spouse that had to deal with an affair child, they lie about using protection. Your not on the same playing field, something is out of balance. How is it she, with a low sex drive, doesn't want to be intimate with you yet be hot for some guy that is so much below your standards? Maybe she just doesn't have the attraction for you that she has for the O/M.

 

I know what it is like to be in your situation, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel and as bad as everything may feel like now you will get through this with or without her. You need to decide if reconciliation is really what you want. Can you live with fact that the last orgasm she had was with another man? Some of us can not live with the imbalance created by infidelity, there is no do over. Had you not discovered her affair guess what she would still be doing? Thank God there are no children evolved. Do what is right for you, she made her choices, having sex with the other man in your bed was a choice and she did it not because the O/M tricked her but because she wanted to. Talk to a lawyer, read up on the 180 and start using it to distance yourself from her so you make decisions that are right for you.

[ShatteredLady]

I want to say this directly, and please forgive me if I sound harsh, but your wife is not low-drive. She likes sex. She just doesn't like sex with you. Women marry men who they are not sexually compatible with all the time. They marry men who they are not physically attracted to...all the time. It's not fair, but some women like one man for security and companionship and another man for sex. She loves you, but she doesn't love you as a lover. My exWW was such a woman, except mine had no conscience or morals.

 

I would jack her up hard for this, and ask her why the hell she would marry you if she wasn't attracted to you.

 

 

How can you know this? This could be pure speculation or projection. That happens a lot here.

 

I had a friend who divorced. One of their issues was she was low sex drive. She later married again & confided that it was EXACTLY the same in the bedroom! Having an affair DOES NOT mean that they were having the much quoted "Wild Monkey Sex" that posters often state. It DOES NOT mean "Porn Star sex" or that she was doing things for OM that she wouldn't do for her husband!!

 

Where does this always come from? Is it a worst nightmare imagined that's projected on every male bs that comes here? Is this used to place mind moves & push a bs to divorce & away from reconciliation to assure as many cheating wives 'get what's coming to them' as possible?

 

I'm a bs. I know the absolute agony of adultery. Believe me I wanted to die. With all of the other things I was trying to deal with in my broken life I became utterly lost, shattered!! I've lost my faith in love & human nature BUT I don't think that even in such an extreme situation as mine divorce would miraculously heal me. I'd still have to live with the agony & loss...AND if the derogatory view of women that some members try to foster here in men who may divorce is an indication of the available men in the world aren't I better of staying with the devil I know? No matter how he's hurt me at least he doesn't think that all women are ho's.

 

Ugh sorry rant over. I want to get out of this with some respect for the human race. Not all men believe that all b**chs are easily replaceable...or do they? Am I just naive? God I hate this world sometimes.

 

Look at some of the things that are written by & written to men BS's. "Life ain't nothing but 'female dogs' & $$$'. It's so utterly offensive. Any man who comes here looking for help with any heart & sensitivity, considering keeping his family together, loving his wife who cheated is degraded & called weak names...

 

...sorry op, I'm just warning you of what's going to come! Ugh! It's soul destroying. Read the other threads by men here in a similar situation to you. Even if you do decide that divorce is the best path for YOU please try to not become bitter & cold. Don't use women & advise others to talk of half the population with scorn & contempt.

 

Ugh I'm sorry. Really bad night.

[Bryanp]

Here is some more food for thought.

What if the roles had been reversed. What if you carried on a 4 month unprotected sexual affair with another woman behind her back putting her at risk for STD's? What if you had brought your lover to your home to have sex while she was working?

 

How do you think your wife would have reacted when she found out? Do you think she would be acting the way you have been acting?

[Overtaxed]

Well, we just strung together a most positive night together. Plenty of tentative comments and discussions, but, it seemed more "natural" for her.

 

I'm really having trouble with her psych's recommendations. I'm going to go down and see her (as a couple) because, frankly, I'm having trouble believing she's even saying this. I figured telling the W "I'm coming with you to see her next time" would get her to backtrack or soften some of the things the psych "said". It didn't, not at all, which makes me think, this lady is actually saying this stuff.

 

Psych said we should continue "no sex" for a few months and that my wife should consider taking a leave of absence from work and spending time alone for a month or so. No cell phones, only one person knowing where she is; just time to think. As my W is relating this to me; I'm looking at her wondering "Is this psych trying to grenade our marriage?!". She's (W) easily influenced and I think she's actually given it some consideration. This advice is completely counter to everything that I've read here (thank you again for the posted book and articles, they were very helpful) and elsewhere; why in the world would the right way to to heal a marriage be to spend a month apart from one another, giving me plenty of time to stew in the mess and be unable to move forward in recovering the relationship. Her psych is making her out to be the victim (IMHO) and the wife is playing into it; if anyone needs a month alone, it's me, not her!

 

I've said this before, but I'm nowhere near perfect. I think the psych thinks that because I've been controlling and not let her "find herself" the first step to healing our marriage is for her to do that. That's the only explanation I can come up with, but it's a poor one; this time isn't supposed to be about her (that was what the affair was), it's supposed to be about us.

 

IDK, I'm just getting angry about things very easily. When I heard that suggestion, after the shock wore off, I started to think; "Wouldn't it be nice if I could just duck out of the world for a month or 2 to work things out". Oh yeah, that's right, I can't, because, I'm an adult with big responsibilities to others, work, wife, family.. Even if it's a "good idea", I'm thinking my W isn't really thinking this through. Sure, you go away for a month; during that time, I move out, file for D, you lose your job.. And then what? Your life totally falls apart. I know healing is important, but that does have to come in the time we have available, I can't just punch out of work to sit home and try to work through my issues, nor do I think the right move is to burn my year of vacation time sitting in the woods alone. Kind of burns me up that it's my income that makes it possible for her even to consider that kind of action and I'm the one who's been injured. Why should I be the one to pay for her sabbatical?

 

Needless to say, unless I hear a lot of "you should let her do that" here and in my individual sessions, that's not going to happen. I feel a bit revictimized by some of the things I'm hearing and suggestions she's getting, as if I'm the one who caused this, and I'm the one who needs to fix it. I know I have work to do to fix my issues, but not at the expense of everything else in my life. Right? Or am I crazy and not thinking clearly?

 

Thanks everyone, your comments, suggestions and thoughts have been really helpful!

 

Not all men believe that all b**chs are easily replaceable...or do they? Am I just naive? God I hate this world sometimes.

 

I certainly don't believe everyone is easily replaceable. And I think I mentioned it in my intro, I have a very "permissive" attitude towards sex, which, makes that part of it much easier to forgive/forget. Neither of us were virgins when we met, and I just have a ton of trouble thinking "she's gotta go" because of that. What does make me think that though, is the betrayal, as someone posted, while I was off in another country working, she had another man to our home. I'm sure I've called her before while she was on the phone with the AP and she ignored my call to talk to him. It's probably strange, but that bothers me a lot more than the sex. I know I can forgive that part (sex), but the betrayal, that'll take everything I have to move past.

[Overtaxed]

Here is some more food for thought.

What if the roles had been reversed. What if you carried on a 4 month unprotected sexual affair with another woman behind her back putting her at risk for STD's? What if you had brought your lover to your home to have sex while she was working?

 

How do you think your wife would have reacted when she found out? Do you think she would be acting the way you have been acting?

 

Honestly? I think she'd throw a fit, cry, scream, shut down and then get over it. She's always said she "expected" me to have an affair. Shoot, I "expected me" to have an affair, so I can't say she's wrong. I travel a lot for work, I'm high sex drive, and I've always found talking to women easy (and enjoyable) things that are very much indicators of men who will have affairs. And, if I'm honest, the only reason I haven't is because I "white knuckle" it; when I travel, I spend all my time that I can alone. Never go to the hotel bars. Never talk to people at check in. Never make any personal comments to any of the women at work. I know how easy it would be for me to make this mistake and the way I prevent it is by being hyperaware of that and making sure that I'm far removed from the opportunity.

[sandylee1]

I agree, and I'm afraid of appearing weak (to be completely frank). I'm comforted by the fact that she knows I hold all the cards, so right now she's kind of hanging in the wind. And, also, I really don't want to abuse her; she has to know what she did was wrong, and she has to know I'm willing to leave, but, beyond that, I'm hesitant to get on the mountain and throw lightning bolts. But there will be demands, there are already boundaries set (monitoring is setup on everything) and I'm doing my best to temper my anger and love; two totally opposed forces that I've never had for the same person in anywhere near this intensity.

 

We did have the "kid" discussion before marriage. LONG before actually. We agreed to disagree (I know, looking back, not the right move) and decided that loving each other would make the answer clear It didn't.

 

This was indeed a big mistake.

 

We just kept moving apart, me more away from children, her more towards it. But, and this is the part of me that I just don't understand, she's 37 years old. As you said, time is not on her side.

 

And that's what saddens her the most. The way you can't understand her desire for a child. You want her to just accept that you don't want them and STFU (shut the f***up) about it.

 

She's got serious reproductive issues. The absolute best chance she has for having a child is to stay with me, change my mind and use the money we have to pay for IVF.

 

Here's another issue, she wants you to want a baby. Not to be pressured and coerced into it, and you shouldn't be forced into it.

 

Having children is too big an issue to disagree on. I think infidelity aside, this is enough reason to go your separate ways

 

Sorry, that was the cold and clinical side of me (and perhaps your starting to get an insight into what she dislikes), but, that's how I think of things.

 

It's not about her cheating because you don't have kids, but the feeling of sadness, knowing it's unlikely to happen probably keep her in a very dark place.

 

So getting attention from another man would have given her a lift and been a distraction from her yearning to be a mother.

 

That being said, you should not ever have a child if you don't want one.

 

Just as she's resentful now, you'll be resentful of her and the child and your relationship will only go downhill.

 

She'll be so focused on the baby she's always wanted and the sex will reduce, which given your high drive will become a real problem.

 

37 isn't too old to have a baby, but the real issue, is you don't want kids.

 

I didn't realise she brought him back to your house. That's an awfully disrespectful thing to do on top of everything.

 

I hope you've got rid of the mattress.

 

Even if you work through the infidelity, the issue of kids will always be the elephant in the room (marriage).

 

You don't have to answer this, but you've mentioned her low drive as a preexisting issue. Does she enjoy sex when you have it? Is she satisfied with it?

 

Take some time to think about it. Think about the type of marriage you want and if you really think you can have that with her.

[Overtaxed]

It's not about her cheating because you don't have kids, but the feeling of sadness, knowing it's unlikely to happen probably keep her in a very dark place.

 

So getting attention from another man would have given her a lift and been a distraction from her yearning to be a mother.

 

That being said, you should not ever have a child if you don't want one.

 

Just as she's resentful now, you'll be resentful of her and the child and your relationship will only go downhill.

 

She'll be so focused on the baby she's always wanted and the sex will reduce, which given your high drive will become a real problem.

 

37 isn't too old to have a baby, but the real issue, is you don't want kids.

 

I didn't realise she brought him back to your house. That's an awfully disrespectful thing to do on top of everything.

 

I hope you've got rid of the mattress.

 

Even if you work through the infidelity, the issue of kids will always be the elephant in the room (marriage).

 

You don't have to answer this, but you've mentioned her low drive as a preexisting issue. Does she enjoy sex when you have it? Is she satisfied with it?

 

I agree, the real issue is me not wanting them. However, there's also the reality here; it's very unlikely she could have had them, even if she was married to a Duggar. She has very serious reproductive problems, she has her entire life, and doctors told her when she was ~15 years old, "It's probably not going to happen for you". Yes, IVF might work, there's a very slim chance it would. In my eyes (and this was dead wrong), I thought her inability and my lack of desire for children made us a good match. When we got together, she told me about it and said "I won't do IVF" which basically means "No kids". Now, of course, the situation is different, I make enough that IVF is really a viable option and we've talked about it. But, even if I was dying to have kids, I'd still be very wary of going down that route, I know a lot of relationships that blew up during IVF (hormones, money, the constant failures), I'm well off but not rich, so the 5-10K per cycle with a 5% chance each time would be a big financial impact. But, at the root of it, I just don't want to do it (trying to be honest). If I thought she, I and our relationship could survive it, I would, but I always thought it would be the end of us to have kids (not the kids themselves, just what it would take to try to do it).

 

It was one of our guest rooms. So, no, it's still there, but won't be coming with us/me when I move (which is shortly, not at all related to this, just bought another house).

 

I do think that she's in a very dark place because of kids. And I want to help her (or did until this came to light) and have been trying to in the ways I know how. I've told her for years that I'd understand if she wanted to part ways and find someone to have children with (and I was sincere, yes, it would have hurt like hell, but I'd never be able to live with knowing I stopped her from her dreams). But I don't get it really, I just don't. No matter who she married, kids were exceedingly unlikely for her. If she left today, there's almost no chance she'd ever have them, she'd be out of time by the time she met another guy and it's not likely that guy would meet her and want to immediately start chucking down thousands of dollars at a time on fertility treatments.

 

To your final question, yes, she does enjoy sex when we have it. She's very responsive and has no trouble with orgasm at all, and I'm very adventurous, so we have a lot of "aids". But, compared to most women I'd been with before, she's easy to satisfy (sorry if this is getting too graphic).

[WilyWill]

That's a great idea to get to the bottom of what the psychiatrist is really saying to her. I agree it's odd that a psychiatrist would suggest abstaining from sex as a solution to a troubled marriage.

 

It's more likely that she denies you sex in order to remain faithful to her boyfriend. That's something we see often in this forum. I would find this particularly hurtful if I were "replaced" as such, expected to stick around as provider while she cavorts with her "real" man. Another thing you might discover is that she's more adventurous with the other man, pursuing him harder and performing sex acts with him that she would not perform with you. I would find this behavior unforgivable.

 

In all honesty, I understand that you love her. But it appears that she's just not worthy of that love.

[sandylee1]

From what you've said I'm not convinced she really wants the marriage, but that doesn't mean she wants divorce either.

 

That kind of marriage isn't what you want. I don't really understand how a WS who was given a second chance wouldn't bend over backwards and do everything to reconnect with their BS.

 

Your situation is similar to the WWs who performed all kinds of sexual acts with their AP, but refuse to with their husband and come up with excuses about how they never really liked it or they were pressured to do it. That wouldn't fly with me for a second.

 

If the Psych is asking your wife to abstain from sex with you, it's because your have has told her she doesn't feel like it with you for whatever reason.

 

Maybe she's lost her 'in love' feelings or she's too busy comparing things to her fantasy ego boosting affair.

 

It's a good idea to give yourself (and tell her if you wish), a timeframe for you to see if there is any improvement and then you'll decide whether or not to pull the plug.

 

Some couples give an initial 6 to 12 months and see where they are.

[oldshirt]

 

We did have the "kid" discussion before marriage. LONG before actually. We agreed to disagree (I know, looking back, not the right move) and decided that loving each other would make the answer clear. It didn't. We just kept moving apart, me more away from children, her more towards it. But, and this is the part of me that I just don't understand, she's 37 years old. As you said, time is not on her side. She's got serious reproductive issues. The absolute best chance she has for having a child is to stay with me, change my mind and use the money we have to pay for IVF. Absent that, use the money to adopt a child. Put another way, if I walk out, the dream of a biological child, almost for sure, walks with me. And the adoption is really hard as a single woman who's not independently wealthy. Of course, this is the logical side of my brain, and I know children aren't a decision that's driven from there, so that's not the right way to think about it. But it's hard for me to imagine that, in her mind, the best way to have a child was to do this. If I don't forgive her, that's pretty much the end for her (chances of meeting a guy, him having the money for IVF and wanting kids, getting married and into IVF in time; in my eyes, near 0%).

 

.

 

 

You are looking at this from a purely logical, rational and pragmatic point of view.

 

Sexual attractions, desires, behaviors and affairs often have nothing to with logic and pragmatism.

 

I believe that this child issue is playing a huge role in this.

 

Her deep, primordial and instinctive programing drives her to reproduce. She is instinctually attracted sexually to people who offer her the best chance at combining their strong and healthy genes with hers to produce the fittest offspring that have the best chance as surviving and passing their (and in a sense, 'her') genes forward.

 

Your arrogance (I don't mean that in a bad way) is based off of your financial success, travel, social status and material resources. While those things are nice and do come with comforts and perks - they don't mean crap to her deep, instinctual drives if it does not mean that she is reproducing and passing her genes forward. All you are doing is providing safety and comfort (ie, "beta")

 

You have spent years telling her to her face that you don't want kids and won't support her reproduction. That is a rejection on deep, primitive and primordial level. There probably is no deeper rejection or hurt.

 

The OM may not have the material resources, the bank accounts, the cars or the exotic vacations - but he is at least not rejecting her on a primordial level.

 

Even if he himself is not consciously striving to have offspring with her, there is something about him that tripping her attraction switches that is telling her that he is a suitable mate for the purposes of reproducing and passing forward strong and healthy offspring.

 

You may be all that financially, but her primitive, animal brain is seeing him as "The Man" and seeing you as genetic sludge. She is seeing him as fertile and virile and you as an obstacle to her genetic survival.

 

At best she is seeing you as the provider of food and shelter and comfort and safety (Beta) while she sees him as provider of strong genetic stock (alpha).

 

None of this is by conscious choice. None of this is the final product of a spreadsheet. This is all animal survival of the fittest on the plains of the Serengeti.

 

Mother Nature wants her to reproduce and has instilled a deep, primordial instinct in her to do so. It does not matter one bit what a good family she comes from. It does not matter one iota how regularly she goes to church. It does not matter what the neighbors think or how much of a "Good Girl" she is. Her primitive animal brain wants to reproduce and she will step over anything in her way to get it.

 

The OM may not have the money for IVF and they may not have the stable home for adoption and they may have a difficult time conceiving naturally - but if her primitive brain thinks he is at least willing to try and make an effort, that puts him head and shoulders above you in her animal mind.

 

Her religiousness and her "Good Girl"ness may have kept her with you this far. But as her biological clock is ticking, Mother Nature is pumping her full of horny hormones and is telling her not to waste that horniness on you.

[Overtaxed]

Your situation is similar to the WWs who performed all kinds of sexual acts with their AP, but refuse to with their husband and come up with excuses about how they never really liked it or they were pressured to do it. That wouldn't fly with me for a second.

 

If the Psych is asking your wife to abstain from sex with you, it's because your have has told her she doesn't feel like it with you for whatever reason.

 

Maybe she's lost her 'in love' feelings or she's too busy comparing things to her fantasy ego boosting affair.

 

It's a good idea to give yourself (and tell her if you wish), a timeframe for you to see if there is any improvement and then you'll decide whether or not to pull the plug.

 

Some couples give an initial 6 to 12 months and see where they are.

 

This is good advice, thank you. And I shared with her (and she read) the book that was linked in this thread, hopefully that will help. My wife has never really "felt like" sex, so, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that is exactly what she told her psych and why she's recommending it. Even when we first got together, sexual intimacy was not on her list of priorities, she's low desire; and I don't believe for a minute it's "low desire with me" only. It's been too long, too persistent a thing for it to just be me; she has deep seated issues around sexual guilt from a church upbringing (how ironic, right). Even her mother told me this 10+ years ago when our relationship was still relatively young. Makes it even harder to understand; thankfully (as much as it hurts) I have so much correspondence between them that I can see the sexual advances were one sided. That would have blown the rest of my world up to find that she was txting him for "sex", she wasn't.

 

Oh God help her when I finally get the full disclosure if there's something on the list that they did that we haven't. This isn't a threat of violence, but, OMG will that be a hard pill for both of us to swallow. Thing is, I sincerely doubt it. The AP is, honestly, a bit of "dweeb". He's not very attractive, his wife is very unattractive, and he just doesn't have much "mojo". I can't imagine him being anything like me in bed (and, sadly, maybe that was the point). I'm not God's gift to women, don't get me wrong, but I'm very open minded and had a lot of experience with different women. He's a church dweeb who used scripture to help get my wife's clothes off. I feel no threat from him sexually, as I've said before (and seen others say in different threads) it's the betrayal that cuts so deep, not the sex itself.

 

Maybe she's lost her 'in love' feelings or she's too busy comparing things to her fantasy ego boosting affair.

 

I think this is exactly it. She's broken and confused right now, I don't think she loves anyone (including herself) and is replaying the good moments of her affair and comparing that to how she feels right now. No long term partner will ever live up to that and she has to come to accept that (as do I) comparing our relationship to "fantasy land" is never going to work.

[Overtaxed]

That's a great idea to get to the bottom of what the psychiatrist is really saying to her. I agree it's odd that a psychiatrist would suggest abstaining from sex as a solution to a troubled marriage.

 

It's more likely that she denies you sex in order to remain faithful to her boyfriend. That's something we see often in this forum. I would find this particularly hurtful if I were "replaced" as such, expected to stick around as provider while she cavorts with her "real" man. Another thing you might discover is that she's more adventurous with the other man, pursuing him harder and performing sex acts with him that she would not perform with you. I would find this behavior unforgivable.

 

In all honesty, I understand that you love her. But it appears that she's just not worthy of that love.

 

As would I, there's no coming back from that; especially since I've been so open and engaged in our "bedroom time" and she's spent all our years together somewhat uninterested. As I said in my other response, I know she wasn't pursuing him directly for sex, the txt messages from her to the AP aren't explicit, they are exactly what I'd see from her (sickening, oh yeah, you bet).

 

I'm actually going to see her psych with her in 2 weeks, I need to get to the bottom of this. When she told me "Dr said we should wait" I immediately thought this was a stalling tactic and came back quickly with "Let's see her together". She didn't deflect or seem at all defensive about it (she actually seemed happy), so, I have little doubt the Dr actually did say that. I just don't know why. I know this shouldn't matter, but I feel like me wife hasn't made clear to the Dr what's going to happen here if she doesn't get herself back on track (and I know you can't get someone to love you with threats, but, reality is reality here people). I'm trying to be forgiving and work at this, but, there's only so much a man can take here, and not being able to reconnect with your wife sexually after she's betrayed the bounds of that relationship, especially when you're the high sex partner? That approaching a cross that I don't know I can bear.

[Overtaxed]

You are looking at this from a purely logical, rational and pragmatic point of view.

 

Sexual attractions, desires, behaviors and affairs often have nothing to with logic and pragmatism.

 

I believe that this child issue is playing a huge role in this.

 

Her deep, primordial and instinctive programing drives her to reproduce. She is instinctually attracted sexually to people who offer her the best chance at combining their strong and healthy genes with hers to produce the fittest offspring that have the best chance as surviving and passing their (and in a sense, 'her') genes forward.

 

Your arrogance (I don't mean that in a bad way) is based off of your financial success, travel, social status and material resources. While those things are nice and do come with comforts and perks - they don't mean crap to her deep, instinctual drives if it does not mean that she is reproducing and passing her genes forward. All you are doing is providing safety and comfort (ie, "beta")

 

You have spent years telling her to her face that you don't want kids and won't support her reproduction. That is a rejection on deep, primitive and primordial level. There probably is no deeper rejection or hurt.

 

The OM may not have the material resources, the bank accounts, the cars or the exotic vacations - but he is at least not rejecting her on a primordial level.

 

Even if he himself is not consciously striving to have offspring with her, there is something about him that tripping her attraction switches that is telling her that he is a suitable mate for the purposes of reproducing and passing forward strong and healthy offspring.

 

You may be all that financially, but her primitive, animal brain is seeing him as "The Man" and seeing you as genetic sludge. She is seeing him as fertile and virile and you as an obstacle to her genetic survival.

 

At best she is seeing you as the provider of food and shelter and comfort and safety (Beta) while she sees him as provider of strong genetic stock (alpha).

 

None of this is by conscious choice. None of this is the final product of a spreadsheet. This is all animal survival of the fittest on the plains of the Serengeti.

 

Mother Nature wants her to reproduce and has instilled a deep, primordial instinct in her to do so. It does not matter one bit what a good family she comes from. It does not matter one iota how regularly she goes to church. It does not matter what the neighbors think or how much of a "Good Girl" she is. Her primitive animal brain wants to reproduce and she will step over anything in her way to get it.

 

The OM may not have the money for IVF and they may not have the stable home for adoption and they may have a difficult time conceiving naturally - but if her primitive brain thinks he is at least willing to try and make an effort, that puts him head and shoulders above you in her animal mind.

 

Her religiousness and her "Good Girl"ness may have kept her with you this far. But as her biological clock is ticking, Mother Nature is pumping her full of horny hormones and is telling her not to waste that horniness on you.

 

I could not agree with you more. However, one correction, we have/are trying. Just no extra measure taken to have or prevent a child. But, and this was sadly, probably a horrible mistake; I had myself tested about 2 years ago and was deemed infertile at that time, so she knows that our "trying" is bound to fail because of my problems. Thing is, even with "super sperm", there's almost no chance it will work for her either, she needs IVF; that's the reality of the matter.

 

And, speaking on that, while I agree with you entirely, why the hell do women seem to get a free pass on the "maternal need"?? I've read dozens of articles on this over the past few days, and a lot echo what you say, its instinct, it's deep, it's primordial. All of which; I completely agree with.

 

But you know what else is like that? My desire to sleep with nearly every attractive woman I meet. My lust after a nice looking backside (which is nearly 100% about the ability of that woman to bear children). My desire to have sex often. All deep seated, primordial male characteristics. Our genes want us to have sex all the time, and they want us to do that with many different young/attractive partners as possible. IDK, I'm pissed, and it's showing here, but why on earth is her desire for a child deemed an excuse and my desire to sleep with 1/2 my neighborhood makes me a monster (take that as a it was intended, an exaggeration and a joke)?

 

The really funny thing? The OM already has children and has had a vasectomy. IDK if the wife knows that, but he told me years ago. Classic, right? <sigh>

[Scarlett94]

I think I'm missing something from your story so correct me if I'm wrong.

So basically in your marriage you don't want children, so you're not having them and although she helped you build everything you have over the last fifteen years, she is entitled to none of it.

Those are two huge issues in which you seem to have total control over and which she seems to have zero control over.

Am I understanding this correctly?

[aliveagain]

Oh God help her when I finally get the full disclosure if there's something on the list that they did that we haven't. This isn't a threat of violence, but, OMG will that be a hard pill for both of us to swallow. Thing is, I sincerely doubt it. The AP is, honestly, a bit of "dweeb". He's not very attractive, his wife is very unattractive, and he just doesn't have much "mojo". I can't imagine him being anything like me in bed (and, sadly, maybe that was the point). I'm not God's gift to women, don't get me wrong, but I'm very open minded and had a lot of experience with different women. He's a church dweeb who used scripture to help get my wife's clothes off. I feel no threat from him sexually, as I've said before (and seen others say in different threads) it's the betrayal that cuts so deep, not the sex itself.

 

Prepare yourself for the reality that she did do things with him that she has never done with you. We hear it a lot on this site. She is a Madonna with you and a porn star with him, another fact that many betrayed spouses have a hard time getting over.

 

We often hear that the affair partner is a major step down from their spouse. They look for affair partners that have more problems then they do, someone that will look up to her and admire her whom she will let do anything he wants as long as he lets her have control over him.

 

The other common reason for affairing down is if she thinks you are too perfect she may be rebelling against what you represent. She would choose someone that is different to you because someone that is similar would cause her to think of you and thinking of you would make her feel guilt and affairs are about escaping reality not about guilt. Their logic is if the relationship isn't working with you she wants someone totally different. They themselves become their opposite(Madonna/Wh*re) and subconsciously seek out someone opposite to you.

 

You may want to consider a polygraph if you want all of the truth but only if you decide that reconciliation is what you really want. Make sure that whoever is counselling her has experience in dealing with infidelity.

Edited January 21, 2017 by aliveagain

[oldshirt]

but why on earth is her desire for a child deemed an excuse and my desire to sleep with 1/2 my neighborhood makes me a monster (take that as a it was intended, an exaggeration and a joke)?

 

 

Actually it is kind of given the nod. It's the ol' "boys will be boys" thing.

 

It is assumed that men will try to prowl and even though people may point fingers and shake their heads when men actually do tear off some on a business trip or corner their secretary in the broom closet at work, people tend to assume that the BW should just bump up her game to try to keep him more satisfied at home and that she should forgive it and keep on truck'n.

[Overtaxed]

I think I'm missing something from your story so correct me if I'm wrong.

So basically in your marriage you don't want children, so you're not having them and although she helped you build everything you have over the last fifteen years, she is entitled to none of it.

Those are two huge issues in which you seem to have total control over and which she seems to have zero control over.

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

I don't have "control" over the children thing per se, I'm just not willing to go to extraordinary measures. We haven't used BC in years and she's had several surgeries to try to correct her problems (they have all failed). Fact of the matter, there's almost no chance without big time intervention (IVF) and no, I'm not willing to do that.

 

"Helped me build" but "entitled to none of it".

 

This is a touchy subject, so I'll try to answer in a delicate manner. She didn't help me build my career, and I didn't help her build hers. She's certainly entitled to some things if she chooses to leave, but, if you're implying "half", then no, not that. I don't really even want to think about this yet, but, should we wind up there, yeah, I'm going to try to be fair but not a doormat. I've made multiples of her income for years, she cheated, why in the heck would I hand over 1/2 of that income (of which about 80% of it was mine) on the way out the door?

 

She knew on the way into this marriage (and within a year of us starting dating) that I didn't want children. If she's changed her mind, I've told her many times, let's go our separate ways as friends (and then I'd be much more open to seeing her in a good financial situation). That's not what happened, she changed her mind, made our relationship difficult for years and then cheated on me. Sorry if it seems cold, but, if we split.. Yeah, it's going to matter, let's put it that way.

[oldshirt]

Oh God help her when I finally get the full disclosure if there's something on the list that they did that we haven't.

 

Be prepared for this to happen.

 

Those of us that have been around awhile are pretty betting the farm that she has been a lot more freaky with OM than she ever has with you.

 

I will pretty much guarantee it. (now you will probably never know the whole story or know everything that they did do. But if you were to some how find out everything, I guarantee you that there will be acts and there will be a level of enthusiasm and initiative that she has never had with you)

 

Remember, she has no religious, "Good Girl" persona to perpetuate with him. He already thinks she is a nasty, cheating $\#$% so why pretend to be anything but?

 

If you are going to delve into their activities and their relationship, you are going to have to harden your heart and prepare for the worst. This is universal and pretty much a given. There are going to be things on their list that are not on yours.

[Overtaxed]

Prepare yourself for the reality that she did do things with him that she has never done with you. We hear it a lot on this site. She is a Madonna with you and a porn star with him, another fact that many betrayed spouses have a hard time getting over.

 

I can see why. Prepare myself? Yeah, if only I knew how!

 

Man, I'll tell you what, should this be the end for us, I've learned a very valuable lesson here. Be the AP, not the loyal spouse. <sigh>

[aliveagain]

I can see why. Prepare myself? Yeah, if only I knew how!

Man, I'll tell you what, should this be the end for us, I've learned a very valuable lesson here. Be the AP, not the loyal spouse. <sigh>

 

Expect the worst has already happened, the onus is on her to prove otherwise. Second chances are earned and should never be expected, make her do the work to win you back. If she is unable or unwilling to do what is necessary then finish what she started with her affair, set her free so you can move on with your life. You deserve a hell of a lot better then a part time wife with a boyfriend.

 

One other point, bringing another man into your bed is the lowest form of respect one spouse can show another. She has some hate and you need to find out why.

Edited January 21, 2017 by aliveagain

[oldshirt]

I've made multiples of her income for years, she cheated, why in the heck would I hand over 1/2 of that income (of which about 80% of it was mine) on the way out the door?

 

she changed her mind, made our relationship difficult for years and then cheated on me. Sorry if it seems cold, but, if we split.. Yeah, it's going to matter, let's put it that way.

 

Then you need to start working with the best divorce attorney that money can buy now.

 

Most jurisdictions could not care less who cheated on who and it has virtually no bearing on the division of assets. 'No-fault divorce' means that there is no bad guy and that divisions of marital assets and properties are determined by entitlement under the law and not by who did the other wrong.

 

Get a good attorney and start working with that attorney now and get your ducks in a row and wagons circled. You may not have to go through with a divorce if you choose not to at some point. But the more preparation and having your ducks in a row as soon as possible will help a lot if one of you does decide to pull the trigger.

[Scarlett94]

I think you miss understood me. I was asking was this the situation pre affair.

In other words if you had been the one cheating was she still per your pre nup not entitled to half?

I was just trying to understand the dynamics of your relationship.

I'm a betrayed spouse so I wasn't trying to make excuses for her