Deal Breaker? 2 years later?

[surprised32]

So most of what I have heard is divorce. Those have been my thoughts many times. I have left for weeks at a time only to return. I am through pin-balling. Its not healthy for anyone involved.

 

I would like some suggestions/thoughts on how I should proceed?

 

I think I will confront her next week. I am on vacation for 5 day as of tomorrow.

 

I need some answers on some things and want her to answer them truthfully. I am pretty sure I will know or feel inside whether the answers are true or not. If I am satisfied or not I will probably start the process of a legal separation. This mostly is a test for any future reconciliation that could possibly happen.

 

The questions I need to know are: When did your affair really start? A few certain dates when I was out of town? The email I found to someone else? I really want to know whether she slept with the high school friend 7 years ago? I have his wife's phone number and they are now divorced (let my wife know I can call?) Is there any other affairs I am not aware of?

 

I want to ask her to supply some things I don't know and haven't discovered yet. This will really make a decision for me. If she doesn't come up with anything then she is holding a ton of information from me and means that she is not trying to reconcile. This tells me she has done so many bad things that she knows I will not ever take her back.

 

So honesty is a must!

 

Please give me some questions and thoughts.

 

I also will post about her remorse and what I know and see.

Edited January 25, 2017 by surprised32

[surprised32]

As far as remorse that everyone asks about. I can tell 100% she is remorseful. Most anyone I know would have given up by now. She is consistent and persistent.

 

This lady has even gone to the hospital for depression, she lost 35 lbs (she only weighed 145 and is 5'10). She has endured hours of verbal abuse from me. I am not proud of this, but it has happened on many occasions.

 

She tried to commit suicide once. She has changed anything and everything I have asked her to do sexually and outside of the bedroom. I must share that she has some sexual self esteem issues that the counselor was supposed to work on.

 

She has realized even more how much I must have loved her after she spent 1 month in the hospital 6 months ago. I was there 24 hours a day. I encouraged and helped her through one of the toughest times of her life. I feel she doubted my real love for her. The illness during the affair is a totally different health problem than the current one. This one could have been brought on by stress.

 

She wants to spend every waking moment with me. I can not even go to home depot without her. She comes to my business and helps me (never did that before)

 

She wakes up in the morning rolls over and tells me she loves me and kisses all over me.

 

If I even mention the affair she tears up and says how she has to live with this guilt forever and wishes she could just die sometimes.

 

She just daily asks me to just love her.

[ShatteredLady]

As I said in a previous post....

 

I do believe that reconciliation is possible if you truly love your partner & they are 100% in the marriage.

I don't believe the old 'once a cheater, always a cheater' based on very clear evidence (even on this forum).

I know that severe illness can really change (often ground) a person. I have poor health myself & know that it has amplified my focus on family & what's truly important in life.

Things like family & history are far more important to some people.

 

Recovery is a very individual thing. Do you believe that your wife's infidelity would be any less painful if you divorced?.

 

 

Why are you asking BIAS complete strangers on the internet?

 

If one asks the question, "Should I divorce my serial cheat of a wife?" of course most BETRAYED people are going to scream YES!!

 

We don't know your wife. You do!! You seem to be deeply in love with her but you are also in deep pain. Of course you are! Who ever wants to learn these things about the person they have shared their life with? The 2 of you have loved each other for a WHOLE LIFE. I do not believe that ALL of those years were just some elaborate hoax. Sometimes we do terrible things & loose ourselves.

 

Are those few years the truth? Is your shared life the truth? Have you been truly YOU throughout your marriage or was the REAL YOU that man who f**ked those hookers? Are you BOTH of you simple, one dimensional beings who can be tried & sentenced after a few internet posts or are you very complex beings, for better & worse??

 

What's your line? What do you honestly believe?

 

For goodness sake, if you love each other so completely why not just get on with loving & enjoying each other?

 

Life has taught me that nothing is as pure & simple as we wish it was. People screw-up!! It's devastating. Is soul shattering. At the end of the day what do YOU want? You're not getting any younger. Is your history & your love, for better & worse, important enough to you to just get on with living out the rest of your life with the woman you started your adult life with?

 

Not a single person on this forum has to look your WIFE (the woman YOU love) in the eye & tell her they want a divorce! Not a single person on this forum has to live with that choice every single day for the rest of their lives! Not a single person on this forum has to be YOU!

 

Do you want to wake every single morning for the rest of your life without her kissing you & telling you that she loves YOU?

 

Do YOU believe that she's cheating scum who's going to do it to you again & again? Who is your love & your loyalty to? Is it the woman you have grown through thick & thin with or is it a bunch of strangers telling you to kick her to the curb?

 

Stop posting & this forum will move-on to the next poster.

 

ONLY YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH YOUR CHOICES!!

 

ONLY YOU KNOW HER!!

[S2B]

All of that is good info...but what was her reason/logic in cheating again when she was supposed to commit to repairing the damage she caused?

 

How did she reason in her mind the cheating? How could you trust she won't do it again and again?

[harrybrown]

If she loves you so much, she will write a timeline and diary of all her affairs for you.

 

she will give you all the detail you ask for. she will get tested for stds.

 

She will write letters to the wives of the OMs and tell them what they did.

 

She would start protecting you instead of the OM.

 

She cheated again and again. Until she writes the timeline and the diary and pays for a polygraph test, she is still lying to you.

 

Have her pay for affair recovery.com to help you heal. she is still a serial cheater and you can not trust that she will not cheat again.

 

She will cheat again. If she loves you so much, she would not have cheated the first time, let alone the second time. and she would have written the timeline and figured out what was wrong with her to avoid giving you more pain.

 

Has she told her family and yours what she did?

 

You can't trust her. file for D and then tell her she can try to prove to you that she wants only you after the D.

 

Go see your attorney. She will continue to hurt you.

[BluesPower]

If she loves you so much, she will write a timeline and diary of all her affairs for you.

 

she will give you all the detail you ask for. she will get tested for stds.

 

She will write letters to the wives of the OMs and tell them what they did.

 

She would start protecting you instead of the OM.

 

She cheated again and again. Until she writes the timeline and the diary and pays for a polygraph test, she is still lying to you.

 

Have her pay for affair recovery.com to help you heal. she is still a serial cheater and you can not trust that she will not cheat again.

 

She will cheat again. If she loves you so much, she would not have cheated the first time, let alone the second time. and she would have written the timeline and figured out what was wrong with her to avoid giving you more pain.

 

Has she told her family and yours what she did?

 

You can't trust her. file for D and then tell her she can try to prove to you that she wants only you after the D.

 

Go see your attorney. She will continue to hurt you.

 

This is the dichotomy that I have between this post and OP's last post about her remorse.

 

So if OP does not have blinders on, and let's face it most do, and he really is witnessing the behavior the way that he describes it, that really does sound like remorse. It "SOUNDS" like it.

 

However, we are talking about 2 affairs that he knows about. How many other affairs or ONS has she had.

 

So you are telling me that it took her being really sick and witnessing her husbands love and care for that that "MADE" her realize how much she loved him.

 

So the fact that he was out busting his a** making a nice living for her was not enough to realize that he loved her. I am in no way saying that OP is the perfect husband.

 

But I am saying the OP was not, is not, and never will be responsible for his wife's affairs. And let's notice the word "AFFAIRS" which is plural as in at least 2 that he knows about.

 

If his wife was really remorseful, she would confess every detail of ever affair that she has ever had whether he already knows about it or not.

 

So if you look at it that way... Is she remorseful, I wonder???

[Try]

Marriage counselors are paid to keep people married.

Anyone that doubts your statement that "Marriage counselors are paid to keep people married" should ask themselves the following question. If a married couple tells a Marriage Counselor (MC) that one of the spouses has had 2 affairs in the last 7 years, and the MC truthfully tells the couple that statistics show that the cheating spouse is highly likely to cheat again with divorce being the best option for the non-cheater if the non-cheater is not OK with that, will the MC make as much money from that couple as they would if they instead told the couple that they needed more MC if they want save the marriage? The answer is obvious, just like it is obvious that the MC needs to pay their bills just like everyone else. Edited January 25, 2017 by Try

[ShatteredLady]

The OP sounds like he REALLY wants to reconcile.

 

I believe that he should sit her down & ask all of his questions. I believe that he should ask her to provide him with ALL of the details that he wants to hear. I believe that she needs to give him the absolute truth before he makes his final descisions.

 

The problem is....He will come back here & share the 'truth' & receive the "Cheats always lie!" statement. If she says it was 2 affairs, he will be told that it was really 4 because cheats minimize. 'They had sex 10 times'. 'Oh no they didn't! They had crazy monkey sex 1,000 times & she performed acts that would make a veteran porn star blush!

 

OP. What do YOU want? What do YOU need? What will stop the pain?

 

You seem so convinced that she is remorseful. Sometimes it seems like you want to convince us! Are you just wanting someone to tell you that it's ok to reconcile?

 

It IS ok to reconcile.

 

It IS ok to divorce.

 

Nothing you can write here will win you unanimous answers! Some will always say divorce because they can't imagine staying married to a woman who cheated at least twice....some couldn't get past once! We aren't you. We can't tell you what to do. Only you know what you can live with...

 

....And I think that's the problem! Like many of us you desperately want that illusive time machine. What you really want is for this not to have happened. You want it to stop hurting. I promise you it won't. The triggers will get less over time but if you're like me (like most BS's) there will ALWAYS be something that brings this gut wrenching pain back clear as day.

 

I'm sorry! I'm so very sorry. It's up there with the most truly awful things that 1 human being can do to another. It's not murder. It's a lot more complex than that!! It devastates on so many levels, in so many different ways. You love her! You want to be married to her BUT you want it back to the first 'innocent' 25-30 years. That can NOT happen!

 

You're focused on learning the truth. Will you ever believe it even once you have it? What then? Where does it end? I don't think it ever does. You just have to hold your breath & jump one way or the other. Reconciliation or divorce. Choose! Then dedicate yourself to making that work. Convince yourself that you've made the right choice for YOU & don't look back!

 

I'm truly sorry! It's not a boat that I want to be in BUT I am! I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[bigman1]

I also want to point out that all of this affection, kissing, love bombing, clinginess is really disturbing to me. That is not normal.

 

Kissing you constantly?! Who does that in a normal healthy relationship? I get being in love, but you describe almost a female Gomez Addams once Morticia spoke French. (Addams Family- American 60's sitcom).

 

I gotta tell you, so much of what you described sounds either manipulative or ridiculous. You have lies, withholding information, you are seeking truthful answers and she has not given that to you, but kisses and clinginess and that is a sign of remorse? I don't think so.

 

You and she are not healthy. You leave for weeks at a time. She lies. She love bombs. So much is not right here. Let's not forget suicide attempts. How is that remotely healthy? How does that show remorse? It is a sign or poor mental health and not remorse.

 

Until you get your head straight, divorce is just pro forma. You would still be together and you would still leave and come back. Get your head right and then make a rational adult decision and stick with it.

Edited January 26, 2017 by bigman1
omitted sentence

[oldshirt]

So most of what I have heard is divorce. Those have been my thoughts many times. I have left for weeks at a time only to return. I am through pin-balling. Its not healthy for anyone involved.

 

I would like some suggestions/thoughts on how I should proceed?

 

I think I will confront her next week. I am on vacation for 5 day as of tomorrow.

 

I need some answers on some things and want her to answer them truthfully. I am pretty sure I will know or feel inside whether the answers are true or not. If I am satisfied or not I will probably start the process of a legal separation. This mostly is a test for any future reconciliation that could possibly happen.

 

The questions I need to know are: When did your affair really start? A few certain dates when I was out of town? The email I found to someone else? I really want to know whether she slept with the high school friend 7 years ago? I have his wife's phone number and they are now divorced (let my wife know I can call?) Is there any other affairs I am not aware of?

 

I want to ask her to supply some things I don't know and haven't discovered yet. This will really make a decision for me. If she doesn't come up with anything then she is holding a ton of information from me and means that she is not trying to reconcile. This tells me she has done so many bad things that she knows I will not ever take her back.

 

So honesty is a must!

 

Please give me some questions and thoughts.

 

I also will post about her remorse and what I know and see.

 

Never ask a question you do not already know the answer to.

 

The flaw in your reasoning here is that cheaters lie and deceive and gaslight and rugsweep and no, you will not be able to just "know" if she is lying or not.

 

It is pointless to just ask her these questions because all she has to do is DARVO and lie and deflect the questions and twist back onto you.

 

Take the time and energy and exasperation that you would spend trying to sweat it out of her and just go into detective mode and find out for yourself.

 

Hack her computers, emails, social media etc Check her phone records from her phone carrier. Go through every square inch of the house and look for a burner phone, hidden lingerie, sex toys, jewelry and other gifts that did not come from you. Get a couple voice activated recorders and hide them in her car and other places she may have secret conversations.

 

Don't just look for direct correspondence from other men but also look into emails, phone calls, texts etc to a girlfriend or relative that she may be confiding in about her affairs.

 

Do all of this on the downlow of course and act like it is all just another regular day. Do the legwork and find out for yourself. Do not rely on a known lyer and gaslighter and serial cheater to tell you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

The only reason for you to just ask her without finding your own evidence and proof is so that you can give her the opportunity to tell you what you want to hear and thus take the responsibility for finding the truth off of you so that you can continue to keep your head in the sand.

[JS84]

I still think he'll have the best luck getting the truth if he tells her he's leaving before asking any questions or bringing up a polygraph.

 

No idea why people are giving the OP the impression if he simply asks her the same questions he's already been asking her, he's going to get straight/honest answers or something satisfying. He's already done this. She's not going to admit to anything he can't prove because that's been her track record so far. Or she's just going to outright lie even more.

 

Again, I recommend telling her you're leaving, filing, and THEN ask for a polygraph and any follow up questions after the thought of losing her marriage starts to sink in.

 

Because you're not going to have a successful reconciliation as long as you're in the dark about your wife's sexual history while she's been with you. And your wife has no motivation to tell you the complete truth as long as she thinks she can't lose you.

[S2B]

I agree that all this love and affection is just a ploy to cover up what she knows is wrong.

 

She expects you to overlook her cheating because now she's kissing and loving on you.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see she is a highly manipulative gal.

[surprised32]

So we had a talk and we have moved into separate bedrooms at this time. She swears she is being totally transparent with what has happened. I am pretty sure at this point MOST of the truth has been told. The AP wife and me had talked many times and I had let her tell me things and they all matched up. She gave me details of what he said about the times they met outside of work. These things were embarrassing and I wouldn't have told anyone.

 

She finally got angry and shed some light on what may have been part of justification in her mind for the affair. There were some things I had done while in my 20s and 30s that she just had not forgiven me for. Rightly so, but they were not affairs.

 

For now I just have to give it some time and try to stay calm.

[Jersey born raised]

Ah, resentment ! My thoughts on what I would have said: So it's payback time. Have gotten your pound of flesh or is are there compound interest charges pending.

 

Allan Bloom "everything I ever need to learn, I learned in kindergarten". Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

Issues are issues, adultery is adultery two separate things. The adultery issue: your wife as a character flaw that allowed/caused her to commit adultery over resents. She should have learn in kindergarden not to do so.

 

She failed kindergarten, she is still a child. Marriage is between two adults.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Jersey born raised

[surprised32]

I didn't want it to sound like she was using it as an excuse. She is owning it. I picked up on some things said and discussed that were brought up. I really had no idea how bad it was back then. I had just wondered what she had been telling herself to justify it in her own mind. She also justified it in her own mind that I didn't care since I wasn't taking her health issues seriously. Seriously I didn't know how bad she was.

 

If I had known that it could have been life threatening. I would have dealt with it differently. Just so you all know I wasn't going to Dr visits, extensive outpatient procedures, and tests. I went to work as if I didn't care.

 

The AP was a coworker and helped convince her that I wasn't there. He would tell her things before they hooked up like, hey if your H cant make it to your Dr appts I can go. He looked up everything on the internet and explained and understood everything happening to her. His dad was dying from the same conditions supposedly. You see where I am going with this. He made me into the non caring d..k. in her eyes. While him becoming the hero caring guy.

 

P.S That is the reason I physically kicked his a..

[Marc878]

I really hate to say how hard this will be for me. I have financially set myself for a comfortable retirement and have no debt. She also has a very good income.

 

It is going to be very hard to get back to this situation being in my mid 50s but I am intellectual enough to know what I need to do.

 

I was going to tell her next week that I am going to move out and distance myself from her. This is going to destroy her.

 

I doubt that. This probably wasn't her second rodeo. You only know the tip of the iceberg.

[Marc878]

So we had a talk and we have moved into separate bedrooms at this time. She swears she is being totally transparent with what has happened. I am pretty sure at this point MOST of the truth has been told. The AP wife and me had talked many times and I had let her tell me things and they all matched up. She gave me details of what he said about the times they met outside of work. These things were embarrassing and I wouldn't have told anyone.

 

She finally got angry and shed some light on what may have been part of justification in her mind for the affair. There were some things I had done while in my 20s and 30s that she just had not forgiven me for. Rightly so, but they were not affairs.

 

For now I just have to give it some time and try to stay calm.

 

Cheater script. Blamshififting. She knows how to keep you in control. A blind man could see this one.

 

There is no perfect marriage and there is no justification yor an affair.

 

You're being played again.

 

Read up "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download

[Marc878]

Other man wouldn't have been a problem if your wife hadn't let him in. He just took what did was giving.

 

Wake up

[BluesPower]

Yes for the love of everything holy, wake the hell up.

 

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT, IT IS YOUR WIFE'S FAULT. IT ALL LANDS 100% ON HER SHOLDERS.

 

If you made mistakes you made them, who has not. She is shifting blame on to you so she does not have to be responsible for what she has done.

 

Your wife was an easy target, I know, I used to be that guy. She was not happy at home and she was open to an affair.

 

You have got to stop thinking like you are, she is playing you still...

[S2B]

So we had a talk and we have moved into separate bedrooms at this time. She swears she is being totally transparent with what has happened. I am pretty sure at this point MOST of the truth has been told. The AP wife and me had talked many times and I had let her tell me things and they all matched up. She gave me details of what he said about the times they met outside of work. These things were embarrassing and I wouldn't have told anyone.

 

She finally got angry and shed some light on what may have been part of justification in her mind for the affair. There were some things I had done while in my 20s and 30s that she just had not forgiven me for. Rightly so, but they were not affairs.

 

For now I just have to give it some time and try to stay calm.

 

For her to drum up old resentments is ridiculous.

 

It's her way of avoiding taking the blame for her own actions!

 

She cheated. End of story - not one thing justifies a person cheating.

 

IF she was so focused on things that happened years ago - SHE has had all those years to discuss it with you AND to resolve the issues.

 

But nooooo - she make a conscious decision to cheat - and now she blames you?

 

This will NEVER get better if she doesn't own her bad behavior...and never blame you for what she did.

[Hopefuleddie]

Wow, sorry for the troubles you have gone through. To offer my suggestion, if you feel she is honestly remorseful, I would forgive her, and give your marriage another chance. You may have already had a discussion and put boundaries in place for the journey ahead, but if not, you may consider that. I would also suggest a marriage retreat (there are many of those around) to recoup and rejuvenate yourself, and marriage; you deserve some pampering to renew you soul. Check this out Is Your Marriage Built on a Solid Foundation? | A Listly List

[katielee]

if she is even remotely justifying it on something you did she's not a healthy or remorseful partner. People don't cause other people's affairs. Don't buy it AT ALL.

And don't let her put it on you.

[bigman1]

Dude,

 

You guys are not healthy. I posted that previously. You seem intent on posting like this is a blog, but you are not really doing anything to get you guys healthy.

 

Her being truthful is a minimum requirement. Her feeling "remorseful" is pretty much a guess on your part. Remember, at one point you thought she was faithful, so you can't put too much stock in your feelings about her intentions or feelings.

 

You seem to have a narrative that needs to play out so that you can move on. IF that get's you thru the night, then have at it. It is not a great way to work things out. Her convincing you that the OM convinced her that you were not there for her and thus causing you to be the bad guy does not really translate into having an affair. I mean really, put that in a sentence. "My wife let another guy convince her that I, the man who lived with her and saw her every day, was not there for her so she started an affair with this guy". NOPE.

 

Still, if you need to believe that, fine. If you need to believe that she is remorseful, fine. If you need to believe that her wanting to be near you on an almost childish level is a sign of love, fine. If you need to believe that trying to commit suicide was a sign that she wanted you, fine. Of course, all of that is just so wrong that it is really not fine.

 

Engage in a conversation and address these issues here and IRL. Right now, you are just posting updates based on some narrative that you need to happen.