Am I with the wrong person?..."political"

[ConfusedAF]

I'm so upset right now. This is a bit political so bare with me if you disagree, but to me it's more about values and compatibility of such values. My fiancé has never been very politically inclined. He considers himself a libertarian, which drives me nuts as a pretty liberal person myself,but I've considered this to be on the healthy side of disagreements. Well, to make a long story short, I took the Trump victory pretty hard. I felt depressed for days and have recently been feeling better. As better as one can feel anyway given the current political climate, anyway.. Recently my fiancé's been making some comments which I consider pretty dismissive, some of them being that people should just get over Trump being president , that people are just upset over the fact that he is not a "career politician" , and that people should stop protesting (which he later took back and said people should do whatever they want but he just doesn't see the point in it). Among other things, he said that he is neutral on the topic of the wall, that he doesn't see the point of it but government always spends money on all sorts of things...blah blah you get the point. It just seems like he is totally normalizing Trump which has been deeply disturbing to me. I'm used to us not agreeing on many things but this to me goes beyond politics. I've been so upset and seriously wondering if I should break up with him over this. I love him and don't want to make a rash decision, but I could really use some advice on this. This makes me question the kind of person he is and his values. He says that I'm just upset that he doesn't agree with me. Am I being crazy to consider ending our relationship over this? I think a big part of what bothers me is his total lack of care about what is going on. Just plain apathy...I just don't get it. as a woman and an immigrant I kind of resent this.

[d0nnivain]

You are feeling what you are feeling. There are a lot of people who are going to be dismissive of the pain you feel as a result of this election. In full disclosure I think a lot of people's reaction is disproportionate. However, I am empathetic to anyone who is upset.

 

 

Ending a relationship over politics seems an overreaction to me. Ending a relationship because your partner is not compassionate is legitimate. Even if he thinks your reaction is ridiculous, if he loves you he needs to be more sensitive to how you are feelings.

 

 

FWIW many of my friends who feel the way you do have taken more concrete steps to fight against what they see as the injustice. They are volunteering for causes they believe in. They are doing more then protesting or wallowing. Try those things to help heal your soul & take this country in a direction you believe in.

[ConfusedAF]

Thanks Donnivain. I am certainly getting more involved and that has been helping. I am used to Lots of people who voted for Trump being dismissive. I just didn't expect it from him. He didn't vote for Trump, and he has the right to his opinion. I just wish he were more compassionate and sensitive. Thanks again for your thoughts. I will give it some time to cool down and have a conversation about this with him.

[VeveCakes]

He may not be compassionate because he doesn't agree with you.

 

If the roles were reversed, and say he was very upset at all the hate towards Trump, how sympathetic would you be?

 

Think long and hard about that.

 

I don't think people need to break up because they disagree about politics. He is trying to help by saying people need to move on and think positive. Wallowing in pity does nothing for the current state of affairs.

[Ronni_W]

So, first...last night on Stephen Colbert, Dr. Phil said, (paraphrasing a bit), "The election is over -- now, what are you going to do about it?" So, basically, it IS time to get over it AND it is time to decide how you are going to proceed. (In this, your fiancé is just being realistic and practical.)

 

Your fiancé's values have not changed, actually; it's just that the election result has opened this opportunity for you to get a clearer understanding of his political and social attitudes and views.

 

Now. Does he value love, kindness, equality, tolerance, compassion?

For me personally, I would not knowingly marry someone who does not highly value these things; and, really, only I personally could ever know if I am marrying the right/best person for me.

 

Hugs, ConfusedAF -- I do get that it might take a whole lotta Soul-searching. Best of luck.

[ConfusedAF]

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I don't really think you need to agree with somebody to be compassionate. On the other hand, yes, I admit that I would have a hard time with someone being upset with all the hate towards Trump given what Trump stands for. He has done nothing but promote help himself, by putting other people down and disrespecting them (whether it be women, immigrants, Muslims, etc.) Anyway, it seems like he is more apathetic than encouraging people to be positive, and that's what I am having a hard time connecting with. He just doesn't seem to care either way. He's never really cared about politics and that's fine. I just see this as beyond politics...This man is against everything I believe in and is outwardly hateful and disrespectful. I have a hard time understanding how someone can just "not care." Thanks again/

[ConfusedAF]

Thanks Ronni_W! I guess a big part of it is that it makes me question if he values those things and that's what makes me question it and feel so upset about it. Not the fact that he disagreed. Thanks for your kind words, I will keep them in mind!

[Ronni_W]

I just see this as beyond politics...

As I said above, yes, I agree. On the surface it can appear to be only about politics/Trump; but, it really isn't.

[WaitingForBardot]

30+ years canceling out each others votes and counting!

 

It does get heated from time to time, but enough said... ..lol..

[ConfusedAF]

Haha. Thanks Good to hear you are going strong after 30 years!

[VeveCakes]

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I don't really think you need to agree with somebody to be compassionate. On the other hand, yes, I admit that I would have a hard time with someone being upset with all the hate towards Trump given what Trump stands for. He has done nothing but promote help himself, by putting other people down and disrespecting them (whether it be women, immigrants, Muslims, etc.) Anyway, it seems like he is more apathetic than encouraging people to be positive, and that's what I am having a hard time connecting with. He just doesn't seem to care either way. He's never really cared about politics and that's fine. I just see this as beyond politics...This man is against everything I believe in and is outwardly hateful and disrespectful. I have a hard time understanding how someone can just "not care." Thanks again/

 

He just doesn't agree with your stance though. A lot of people don't. It doesn't mean you are right or that he is right. That is yet to be seen.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have a hard time understanding how someone can just "not care." Thanks again/

 

I can guarantee if you stay together, this won't be the last time you'll disagree about something, including those things you feel strongly about.

 

as a pretty liberal person myself

 

As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ronni_W]

I am certainly getting more involved

ConfusedAF,

For us, at a higher level, this is the precise reason that we can have some faith that, in the grand scheme of things, there is a great potential for great good

to come out of Trump's election.

 

For example, my roommate just read that the co-founder (or whatever) of Uber has resigned from his role as advisor to Trump -- because 200,000 Uber users

(as of most-recent count) have deleted their accounts because he accepted the role in the first place.

 

Now; these are probably people who would have stayed complacent and disinterested had Clinton been elected. So, Trump is galvanizing grassroots support -

- for higher values and principles . He is, in effect and most truly, 'forcing' people to not only take a stand but to outwardly make that stand known.

Nothing but good can come out of that, right? -- bringing everything, whether bad or good, out into the open.

 

Let's hold this higher vision...and keep our fingers crossed!

Ronni

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ronni_W
formatting

[ConfusedAF]

I can guarantee if you stay together, this won't be the last time you'll disagree about something, including those things you feel strongly about.

 

 

 

 

We disagree all the time. This felt bigger than that because I have no room in my life for mysogyny or racism...and a lack of caring/apathy makes me concerned about how important this issues are (or in this case are not) to him.

 

 

 

 

As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways...

 

Mr. Lucky

See above: I agree that tolerance for the beliefs of others is important but I cross the line at the things that have been happening in this campaign (and now the presidency).

[ConfusedAF]

ConfusedAF,

For us, at a higher level, this is the precise reason that we can have some faith that, in the grand scheme of things, there is a great potential for great good

to come out of Trump's election.

 

For example, my roommate just read that the co-founder (or whatever) of Uber has resigned from his role as advisor to Trump -- because 200,000 Uber users

(as of most-recent count) have deleted their accounts because he accepted the role in the first place.

 

Now; these are probably people who would have stayed complacent and disinterested had Clinton been elected. So, Trump is galvanizing grassroots support -

- for higher values and principles . He is, in effect and most truly, 'forcing' people to not only take a stand but to outwardly make that stand known.

Nothing but good can come out of that, right? -- bringing everything, whether bad or good, out into the open.

 

Let's hold this higher vision...and keep our fingers crossed!

Ronni

 

 

Thanks for your words, Ronni. I sure hope so! Trying

[lana-banana]

It really depends on what his views are. As a super liberal person myself, I am not going to "get over" the normalization of hatred towards ethnic minorities, the dismissal of women's health and reproductive rights, the subjugation of the Constitution to special interest groups with deep pockets, the mind-blowing conflicts of interest, or the monstrous people that have been nominated to Cabinet posts. I'm not sitting around and whining either; I've been actively protesting and identifying campaigns for action. You have options.

 

The problem with libertarians is they are almost uniformly upper middle class white guys with no awareness of opinions outside their own, and they believe anything bad that happens to someone is their own fault. They also tend to be very egotistical, with a lot of admiration for their own success. The noxious "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" principle is a farce and doesn't take into account any kind of systemic prejudice. I have known a lot of black and Hispanic people from poor backgrounds and they find the very idea of libertarians mystifying.

 

(And never mind Ayn Rand, who wailed constantly about not being as strong as her fictional characters. She was a hypocrite and a failure to say the least.)

 

I dated a self-described libertarian for a while. He seemed okay, but then he started saying things like "well, maybe some groups are genetically on average more athletic or less intelligent---that's just science" and I had to call it quits. The superiority element of libertarianism can frequently lead to that kind of racial garbage and it's intolerable.

 

Can you have a future with this person? I don't know. Politically divided couples are nothing new, but divisions aren't as mild as they used to be. I think you need to share some fundamental values if you're going to make it work. You also need to share or at least respect each other's passions, and that includes supporting causes the other partner cares about. Politics or no, anyone who's dismissive about something you love may not be a good fit in the long run. Think long and hard about this and brace yourself for some tough conversations.

[ConfusedAF]

It really depends on what his views are. As a super liberal person myself, I am not going to "get over" the normalization of hatred towards ethnic minorities, the dismissal of women's health and reproductive rights, the subjugation of the Constitution to special interest groups with deep pockets, the mind-blowing conflicts of interest, or the monstrous people that have been nominated to Cabinet posts. I'm not sitting around and whining either; I've been actively protesting and identifying campaigns for action. You have options.

 

Thank you for this. Lana-Banana. That is exactly how I feel and that's why it's so hard. I can't just "get over" mysogyny, racism, classism, etc...

 

The problem with libertarians is they are almost uniformly upper middle class white guys with no awareness of opinions outside their own, and they believe anything bad that happens to someone is their own fault. They also tend to be very egotistical, with a lot of admiration for their own success. The noxious "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" principle is a farce and doesn't take into account any kind of systemic prejudice. I have known a lot of black and Hispanic people from poor backgrounds and they find the very idea of libertarians mystifying.

 

Yes. I agree with this, I mean part of what bothers me is that his views seem a bit selfish. I am not saying he is a bad person or anything, but I do think there's a bit of a lack of empathy or understanding. When I bring up "White-Privilege" and how it's easy for him to sit it all out because he would be the last one affected, he sees this as an attack.

 

(And never mind Ayn Rand, who wailed constantly about not being as strong as her fictional characters. She was a hypocrite and a failure to say the least.)

 

I dated a self-described libertarian for a while. He seemed okay, but then he started saying things like "well, maybe some groups are genetically on average more athletic or less intelligent---that's just science" and I had to call it quits. The superiority element of libertarianism can frequently lead to that kind of racial garbage and it's intolerable.

 

I did not think at all that he was racist or anything like that, but his "neutral" stance on building a wall has me questioning if there is a bit of internalized racism...He denies this.

 

Can you have a future with this person? I don't know. Politically divided couples are nothing new, but divisions aren't as mild as they used to be. I think you need to share some fundamental values if you're going to make it work. You also need to share or at least respect each other's passions, and that includes supporting causes the other partner cares about. Politics or no, anyone who's dismissive about something you love may not be a good fit in the long run. Think long and hard about this and brace yourself for some tough conversations.

 

This is why this has been so upsetting. We've never agreed on politic and I am okay with that to some extent but this election has brought it to a whole new level. When I share my feelings he just keeps saying that he does not see how he is being dismissive no matter how I try to explain it.....Ugh. Thanks again for your thoughts!

[mightycpa]

I notice that in the way you describe it, he's not dismissive of you, but he's dismissive of your ideas.

 

some of them being that people should just get over Trump being president , that people are just upset over the fact that he is not a "career politician" , and that people should stop protesting (which he later took back and said people should do whatever they want but he just doesn't see the point in it). Among other things, he said that he is neutral on the topic of the wall, that he doesn't see the point of it but government always spends money on all sorts of things...blah blah you get the point.

 

But you, you're judging him, not his ideas.

 

This makes me question the kind of person he is

You don't deserve this guy, nor are you well suited for him. Let me explain why. There's an old saying:

 

The lowest form of communication among people is when they talk about other people.

The middle form of communication among people is when they talk about things.

The highest form of communication among people is when they talk about ideas.

 

Look at what he's worried about, people's ideas. Now look at what you're worried about; his worth as a person.

 

Whether the old saying is fair or not, and even if you make talking about people the highest form of communication, it exposes something undeniable about the two of you. You're simply not on the same level as he. So let him go, you'll be doing both of you a huge favor. Find a like-minded guy who will pass judgment on the worth of others based on the things they believe. Only then will you get the life you so richly deserve.

Edited February 3, 2017 by mightycpa

[ConfusedAF]

I notice that in the way you describe it, he's not dismissive of you, but he's dismissive of your ideas.

 

 

 

But you, you're judging him, not his ideas.

I appreciate you pointing this out, and I agree that I can come off as judgemental when it comes to taking about these topics, partly because I'm passionate about issues of equality, women's rights, etc.

You don't deserve this guy, nor are you well suited for him. Let me explain why. There's an old saying:

 

The lowest form of communication among people is when they talk about other people.

The middle form of communication among people is when they talk about things.

The highest form of communication among people is when they talk about ideas.

 

Look at what he's worried about, people's ideas. Now look at what you're worried about; his worth as a person.

 

Whether the old saying is fair or not, and even if you make talking about people the highest form of communication, it exposes something undeniable about the two of you. You're simply not on the same level as he. So let him go, you'll be doing both of you a huge favor. Find a like-minded guy who will pass judgment on the worth of others based on the things they believe. Only then will you get the life you so richly deserve.

.

 

So you certainly have the right to your opinion but to jump and say that he is somehow more worthy and I am not deserving of him...well that I'm not going to agree with. I also think the stakes are higher for certain people. As a minority and a woman, I don't think I have the luxury of not caring.

[mightycpa]

.

 

So you certainly have the right to your opinion but to jump and say that he is somehow more worthy and I am not deserving of him...well that I'm not going to agree with. I also think the stakes are higher for certain people. As a minority and a woman, I don't think I have the luxury of not caring.

Oooh, see, I knew you'd say that.. because you're judging me.

 

But turn it around... say you deserved better than him. Now re-read my comment. It sounds like I'm on your side, doesn't it?

 

You don't deserve...

meaning you deserve better.

 

the life you so richly deserve

Need I say more?

 

The difference is your disposition.

[ConfusedAF]

Oooh, see, I knew you'd say that.. because you're judging me.

 

But turn it around... say you deserved better than him. Now re-read my comment. It sounds like I'm on your side, doesn't it?

 

meaning you deserve better.

 

Need I say more?

 

The difference is your disposition.

Nope. sounds the same. And like I said, you have the right to your opinion.

[mightycpa]

Aww, let me rephrase:

 

You don't deserve someone who would treat you that badly! You deserve better! Get rid of him!

You can have the life that you always wanted! You can have the life you so richly deserve! You'll never get it with this a-hole!

If you still think it's me, then it's not me. It's you, and you know your part in it.

 

Either way, the same advice applies. Find someone who agrees with you.

[WaitingForBardot]

ConfusedAF, maybe you could reread mightycpa's comments and think about them a bit...

 

My wife an I are very dismissive of each others ideas (me of hers because, well, she's wrong, and her of mine because, well, she's wrong... ..lol..), but never of each other as a person. We could not have lasted this long otherwise.

[ConfusedAF]

Thank you all for your comments. I will reflect on my part of it.

[Ronni_W]

Thank you all for your comments. I will reflect on my part of it.

ConfusedAF,

I didn't see any point at which you were negatively judging or condemning anyone for their beliefs, thoughts or feelings.

 

You have the absolute right to determine what type of person you want to be with, and to base that on whatever criteria you choose.

Everybody is doing this type of discernment all the time -- I don't hang out with drug-dealers or pedophiles because of their values, ideology and/or behaviour.

I don't hang out with neo-Nazis for the same reason. There's nothing that I need to reflect on, about this.

 

If people don't use people's personal values and inner qualities to choose their partners and friends, how do they do it? Looks and money???

 

Hugs, ConfusedAF.