I confessed

[Overtaxed]

By Southern Sun

No person or thing can force DS to despise the OM.

 

By Blunt

Your statement above is correct Southern Sun

 

 

My points to deadsoul were:

 

 

1 If your husband is like I am then you have no chance being in your husband’s life or heart if you hold on to any positive desires for the OM.

 

 

2 My WW knew that she had no chance at R unless he was completely out of her thoughts and feelings. I watched her for over 4 years and saw no indication of her having any feelings for him and I did not catch her at any attempts at contact with the OM nor the OM trying to contact her.

 

 

 

By Southern Sun

And if she doesn't immediately despise him, it doesn't mean something is wrong with her or that she doesn't deeply regret her actions.

 

By Blunt

I did not say that something is wrong with her if she does not IMMEDIATLY despise him. I did say that there was no chance of R unless he was completely out of her thoughts and feelings. I gave my wife 4 years (NOT Immediately) and she gave every indication that the OM was out of her life. Our R is over 20 years now. No strong man that I know of will accept a betrayer back if that betrayer keeps her feelings for the OM. Of course there are men that will compromise and accept the WS back but then what kind of man does she have?

 

 

I do believe that Deadsoul has regret but that is not enough; she is going to have to take a lot of hard ACTIONS because what she has done has caused a lot of serious damage. I hope she gets to the point that she puts herself and her family first and gets the OM completely out of her thoughts and feelings. Is she does not then her R will fail or be a cripple IMO

 

Yup, I'm attempting an R after my wife stepped out and this is so dead on. Sure, your AP had some positive qualities. Which is to me, the BS, about as comforting as saying the Charles Manson was a really nice guy except for that whole, you know cult thing and swastika on his forehead. Ugh, what? No, he was a complete psychopath, and, in many ways, so were you and your AP. Looking back "fondly" on that period on your life has to be one of the first things to go. No, you don't get to smile about the stolen moments, your first kiss, your first dinner together. None of it.

 

And, much like the poster above, I will never, and can never R with the wife if she harbors positive feelings either towards the A or the AP. This man tried (with your help, I might add) to destroy your life, and didn't give a crap about destroying mine (and his wife/kids in my case) to add a bit more insult to the injury. He may be a great guy other than this, just like a guy driving drunk who runs over your kid might be a great guy too. But, NOT TO YOU, and not to your husband/wife. He/she is a monster. And must be seen/treated as such.

[drifter777]

He's going to IC and wants the MC. When I first confessed, I told him when he was ready, I really wanted to go to MC to try to fix it. He came to me a few days later and asked me to set it up. So I did.

 

I hope you realize that this, in and of itself, does NOT mean he's ready for MC. I don't know your husband but I am a BH and have learned a lot about all of this "reconciliation" and "forgiveness" stuff. Here is exactly what your betrayed husband is trying to do right now: get his old life back! He wants to put this out of his mind and move on praying that time will heal him. Forgiveness? Sure! MC? Sure! Anything that holds the promise - even a false promise - of making his pain stop and getting his world back in order is something he is ready to commit to. Anything.

 

Right now things are scary and crazy and all up in the air and you don't know exactly what to do next. All of us have been where you are at. However, the problems with your marriage are really going to explode down the road a while. Maybe a few months, maybe a few years. There will come a point when your husband will stop running from his feelings and stop being terrified of facing the truth. That's when you will find out just what your affair has REALLY done to your marriage and how much you have hurt your husband.

[bigman1]

The best that I can say is, "hold on tight, it is gonna be a crazy ride". Everyone is different. Just because he goes to IC and MC does not mean things are going to be fine.

 

He may not D, but he may just stick it out and be miserable. He may stick it out and be fair. Who knows. He may D down the line after deciding that he gave it a good try. You guys might R and write a book, who knows?

 

Don't get caught up too much in the remorse vs regret thing. I find it rather inane anyway. Still for some, knowing that your WS feels your pain and hurts for hurting you is what they need. I don't get it, but that may be your husband. Maybe he needs to know that you can't forgive yourself. On the other hand, nothing stopped you from doing it. In short, you rode the ride until the end, and now you feel sick. Still, you rode it till the end. You just have to be honest and find out what he needs from you as you figure out what you need from you.

 

Hating the OM is really odd. For some, hating someone that you betrayed them for makes no sense. It almost cheapens your real relationship. The thought being, "If you felt so little for the OM that you could hate them now, what did you feel for me and will it last?" and "how could you do this to me and us without that much invested in OM" That makes them question your ability to be a safe partner. Maybe indifference is better, who knows. Pining for them or grandiose declarations of hatred raise suspicion.

 

You are gonna go through a whole heck of a lot of emotions. he is going to go through a whole heck of a lot. There is no real way to plan it out. You just gotta be present. Attentive. Honest. Patient. Quick to recognize when he's hurting and needs your intervention.

 

It will be a crazy ride. For longer affairs, anything longer than a drunken ONS, I am not a fan or R. But that is me. IF you are penitent and walk that path, then you can be a positive force for R because you will be looking to do the right thing, even if you make mistakes along the way.

 

Dont' get too hung up on emotions of the day or week for that matter. At this stage, they are like a volatile stock market. Up, Down, no real reason. You gotta be a long term investor. Just rambling, but at some point, you might find parts useful.

[deadsoul]

To be honest, I don't want to hate OM. Hate is an emotion, even if it's negative and I don't want OM to get any sort of emotion from me. I want to feel indifferent to him and I'm already on my way there. I don't want him in my head at all. He does not deserve any space in there or in my heart. Time has helped so much with that.

 

My focus is on my family these days. All of my emotion is going there. Where it should've been all along.

[deadsoul]

Hi Deadsoul,

 

These podcasts have helped me and my husband tremendously. I think you will enjoy them. We like to listen to them separately and then talk about them together. They are all free you just have to download them in Itunes or if you have an Iphone you can listen to them on the Podcast app.

 

By the way I really like Joe Beam (the guy who hosts these) he had an affair, left his spouse for the other lady, and three years later he went back and remarried his wife. So he has been there and lived it and understands it.

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/marriage-radio-with-joe-beam/id978519992?mt=2

 

thanks. I'm going to check them out.

[deadsoul]

On forgiveness, I think in the early days of recovery it is easier to think in terms of actions than an end state. The goal is not to let shame for the past mire you down in depression and self-loathing, such that it prevents healthy action in the present.

 

Some of us like Southern and me and others like to talk about love as an action, not a feeling. Self-forgiveness too can be an action.

 

The past cannot be changed. But the story of today, this one day, has yet to be written. Right now, we choose how to act.

 

So how would you act if you had self-forgiveness? A person who had forgiven herself might

 

1. Do small kind things. Go to the store when the milk is running low, even if she is tired. Pick up the teenagers socks for the 33rd time even though you resent it.

 

2. Accept that thoughts of the past will come, and with them feelings, but then gently but firmly redirect her attention to the present moment and the future.

 

3. Fail sometimes. Fail to focus on the present, spiral into shame. But get up the next hour or the next day and go to work again acting in the present.

 

4. Tell the truth about the big things, no matter how terrified we are. (And all things BS wants to know relating to the affair are big things).

 

The point is, you actions you take and the choices you make today are not dictated by the past, or by whether you feel you can or should forgive yourself for the past, or whether others forgive you for the past.

 

For my worst transgressions, I am not sure self-forgiveness ever really comes. But with the accumulation of days and months and years of acting differently, it becomes -- not irrelevant, but --- what? academic? It becomes a debate about a person long ago and far away. Sometimes I forgive him. Sometimes I don't think some of the things he did are or should be forgiven. But -- I am not him anymore, and have not been for a long, long time.

 

I don't even know how to respond to you... you're so eloquent with words and advice that I just have to soak it in. I can't even respond coherently. This is not a bad thing :) I'm trying to complement you here, I hope it sounds that way in this rambling mess of words.

[Owl6118]

Heh. Glad if the ideas help you. But I'm hanging out here-- three years after I made an account -- in the toy box of broken toys too, you know. It's often easier, as some one noted lately on another thread, to give advice than take it out oneself.

[QuietDan]

9 years ... I don't believe my wife triggers as far as I know anymore. She use to tell me that she forgave me a few years ago. I move through life ... Pretending that my guilt.. My bitter disappointed who I became for a couple of years... The pain that I put her through...doesn't weigh on me. I grew concerned that I might be detracting from her life, her recovery,... Still stuck in life mired with regret and remorse... No self forgiveness yet found or discovered. But, doing the best I can to fake it till I make it. Not so much for my sake. Mostly for her sake.

[Overtaxed]

To be honest, I don't want to hate OM. Hate is an emotion, even if it's negative and I don't want OM to get any sort of emotion from me. I want to feel indifferent to him and I'm already on my way there. I don't want him in my head at all. He does not deserve any space in there or in my heart. Time has helped so much with that.

 

My focus is on my family these days. All of my emotion is going there. Where it should've been all along.

 

Hate at first (for what he helped you do to someone you love) followed by indifference later. I'd think that's a typical progression.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Indifference first and hate after you begin to see what he helped you destroy

[HeCantBreakMe]

I am not sure how much i believe in hating the OM. First of all that is a lot of emotion directed towards someone which requires energy. Second, he only took what you gave him. The fact that he had an affair with a married woman is not your cross to bear it is his and one day he will have to come to terms with that but your hate and anger will not bring him any closer.

 

I also believe when you hate someone you are not allowing yourself to let go and really focus on healing. Honestly, if the shoe were on the other foot and my husband had the affair and 'hated' the OW I would feel uneasy about that. I would feel as if there were still feelings there that allowed for the hate and anger. Letting it go leads to acceptance of the situation, of the part you played in it, and then allows you to focus on what is important.

 

I am not saying harbor feelings of love towards him or even feelings of like. I am more saying hate and anger are emotions that lead towards reckless behavior and can eat away at you over time.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I truly could have cared less for a long time and that bothered john for a long time. He wanted...needed me to hate the om... and as I grew in my understanding of remorse... and as year after year went by that I watched what I had done to my husband... hate came. It is easy to hate him now... because I have 33 years of reconciliation under my belt and I know the damage that he and I created.

 

He is an enemy... and I am very protective of the relationship I have with my husband. Therefore .. I hate him

[DKT3]

I truly could have cared less for a long time and that bothered john for a long time. He wanted...needed me to hate the om... and as I grew in my understanding of remorse... and as year after year went by that I watched what I had done to my husband... hate came. It is easy to hate him now... because I have 33 years of reconciliation under my belt and I know the damage that he and I created.

 

He is an enemy... and I am very protective of the relationship I have with my husband. Therefore .. I hate him

 

While I agree that hating means there is some level of feelings involved, I think you hit on something very important that WS need to understand....Your AP is an enemy to your marriage. Some FWW just don't get that, and think it's OK to carry fond memories and good feelings. For me it's hard to absorb the idea that you can comitt to and give your spouse 100% while still embracing at least mentally parts of the affair and AP.

[HeCantBreakMe]

While I agree that hating means there is some level of feelings involved, I think you hit on something very important that WS need to understand....Your AP is an enemy to your marriage. Some FWW just don't get that, and think it's OK to carry fond memories and good feelings. For me it's hard to absorb the idea that you can comitt to and give your spouse 100% while still embracing at least mentally parts of the affair and AP.

 

I do 100% agree that the AP is an enemy to the marriage, and that harboring any sort of good feelings or fond memories is wrong. I think the hating component is a personal choice much like R looks different across the board.

 

But, yes, AP is an enemy of your marriage, and should be treated as such which means avoid contact of any kind. If you see him run the other way. With everything else I am a firm believer of let go and let God.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I do 100% agree that the AP is an enemy to the marriage, and that harboring any sort of good feelings or fond memories is wrong. I think the hating component is a personal choice much like R looks different across the board.

 

But, yes, AP is an enemy of your marriage, and should be treated as such which means avoid contact of any kind. If you see him run the other way. With everything else I am a firm believer of let go and let God.

 

God does the judging but I am in charge of making sure I am doing everything I can to protect my relationship.

 

That man took something from my husband I can never give back... and I let him. I hate him for that. He walked into my life... took what he wanted and walked away unscathed. My husband has suffered the consequences of those actions for 33 years. And will until he dies...

 

I think hate is quite appropriate ....

 

I don't act out in hatred... I don't do anything to cause him pain... though my husband prays for his death on a daily basis ... but I certainly hate him...

 

I read how some of these waywards have tender thoughts about their aps

 

Oh hell no ... you need to think about what the damage that person has done to your family... yes you allowed it... but they are also responsible.

 

If a stranger stole from your spouse would you be angry? Had a stranger murdered your spouse and destroyed your family would you hate them?

 

It's the same thing. My ap stole from my husband and did not give a damn about it... or he would never have pursued a married woman... there are plenty of available women not in a committed relationship... so why did he pursue me?

 

Yes... hate is quite appropriate

[DKT3]

God does the judging but I am in charge of making sure I am doing everything I can to protect my relationship.

 

That man took something from my husband I can never give back... and I let him. I hate him for that. He walked into my life... took what he wanted and walked away unscathed. My husband has suffered the consequences of those actions for 33 years. And will until he dies...

 

I think hate is quite appropriate ....

 

I don't act out in hatred... I don't do anything to cause him pain... though my husband prays for his death on a daily basis ... but I certainly hate him...

 

I read how some of these waywards have tender thoughts about their aps

 

Oh hell no ... you need to think about what the damage that person has done to your family... yes you allowed it... but they are also responsible.

 

If a stranger stole from your spouse would you be angry? Had a stranger murdered your spouse and destroyed your family would you hate them?

 

It's the same thing. My ap stole from my husband and did not give a damn about it... or he would never have pursued a married woman... there are plenty of available women not in a committed relationship... so why did he pursue me?

 

Yes... hate is quite appropriate

Devil's advocate, by proxy does this mean that you hate who you were during the period?

[aliveagain]

deadsoul, you are both early on in the process. Even if you are truly remorseful(and I believe you are getting there) it will mean very little to your husband until you can find a way to get past his hurt.

 

The deep betrayal is a real confidence shocker. Everything he knows and was planning just collapsed. His key support system and his life of innocence have disappeared almost overnight. You have known about your infidelity since it started, he is at a totally different point then you and has to do a lot of catching up. He is probably still in shock and just now moving past disbelief to a place of acceptance. Whatever his ideas were of how the two of you would grow older together, those ideas have been seriously challenged and that triggers grief.

 

That is where I believe the two of you are at. Time helps to overcome grief and every day you he are under the same roof the better your chances. The interesting thing about grief is that grief has a way of making room for a different future as long as you both choose the possibility and go forward together.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Devil's advocate, by proxy does this mean that you hate who you were during the period?

 

Yep... and I never make excuses for the woman I allowed myself to become...

 

I am 100% responsible for my actions... but had there not been this man pursuing me... perhaps I would have kept my head on straight. He knew I was married and had two children ... he did not care. I certainly did not pursue him...

 

Don't ever think that I think he is to blame... I let him... I could have stopped him.... and that's on me. But he is responsible for his actions as well... and I hate him for what he helped me do to my husband.

 

Yes I hate who I became... everyday of my life I hate it. And I live my life making sure I never do that again.

 

Mr ap... did not make me do anything...but he certainly provided the opportunity

[bigman1]

I think hate for the AP is one of those things that varies on a case by case basis.

 

If the BS needs you to hate them, then fine; assuming that it is genuine hate and not just something that you say to make them feel better, then in that case it is just manipulation and a lie. That is bad. I think a WS in R ought to be able to tell the BS that they don't want to waste any head space with the AP. "They are like garbage. I don't think about them, want them back, or want anything to do with them."

 

Still, if the BS needs you to hate them and you find that holding some hate in your heart is a good thing, then good for you. I think holding on to hate is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. No matter how well deserved.

 

I also think that hate is bad for a totally philosophical reason, but nonetheless significant reason. I think that hate for the AP is just the transferred vestiges of hate for the WS or that last bit of unresolved anger that has to be re-directed elsewhere.

 

Therefore, and not to make this a T/J, I don't think OP needs to hate anyone. You are going to have to come to grips with the fact that you chose the AP. You violated your BS. You were, are and always will be that person. That doe not mean that you cannot be better, but it is always a part of who you are. WE are who we were with experience. I know a man who killed someone. He will tell you, "I am not a killer, but I am". He has decided to never do it again, but he knows that unlike many people, he did it and thus could do it, but will never do it again. It is a dichotomy.

 

For you, the self loathing is purging. It will probably increase, as it should, and then dissipate, as it must.

[deadsoul]

Heh. Glad if the ideas help you. But I'm hanging out here-- three years after I made an account -- in the toy box of broken toys too, you know. It's often easier, as some one noted lately on another thread, to give advice than take it out oneself.

 

Yes, I do feel like I'm in the toy box of broken toys. And I agree. So much easier to give advice than take it.

 

But if it helps you to help yourself any, you've helped me a lot. So that's a good thing.

[deadsoul]

I don't want to think about AP. He's the least of my concerns. I don't hate what he did to my marriage... I hate what I did to my marriage. He had little respect for my marriage or his friendship with my BH, but that's on him, not me. I'm responsible for what I did. He ghosted me. And truly, as much as it hurt at the time, did me a huge favor.

 

I chose to do what I did. I don't want to spend any more time and energy thinking about AP. If I hate him down the road, yay. But I really just don't want him to occupy any part of me and I believe hate allows that. Right now I don't want to think about him and if I catch myself doing it, I quickly change my thoughts.

[Owl6118]

Yes, I do feel like I'm in the toy box of broken toys. And I agree. So much easier to give advice than take it.

 

But if it helps you to help yourself any, you've helped me a lot. So that's a good thing.

 

It's given me a lot to think about in relation to where i'm really at, with the things that brought me here. I see my own IC tonight. I'm glad, we have some things to discuss.

[understand50]

I don't want to think about AP. He's the least of my concerns. I don't hate what he did to my marriage... I hate what I did to my marriage. He had little respect for my marriage or his friendship with my BH, but that's on him, not me. I'm responsible for what I did. He ghosted me. And truly, as much as it hurt at the time, did me a huge favor.

 

I chose to do what I did. I don't want to spend any more time and energy thinking about AP. If I hate him down the road, yay. But I really just don't want him to occupy any part of me and I believe hate allows that. Right now I don't want to think about him and if I catch myself doing it, I quickly change my thoughts.

 

Deadsoul,

 

I wrote you that each must find their own way though all this. I think what you feeling and trying is what is best at the is time. Later, maybe, you will hate your AP, but as long as you do not hold him up past your husband, then you are good. Wasting energy on even the thought of him, is energy that should go to your marriage, your husband and finally yourself. IT has taken many here years, to work up a hate for their AP. You are just starting, and frankly, you goal is to reconcile. You should always ask the question, does this help or hurt our reconciliation. Wasting any energy, thought, or anything else does not help in reconciling.

 

Keep strong, and you may be "broken" in that you compromised yourself, you are not irredeemable. Redemption can come, if you want it and work for it. Remind yourself, that a better you can come out of this.

 

I wish you luck.

[Cephalopod]

Did your husband ever ask you the hard questions you were worried about?

[deadsoul]

Did your husband ever ask you the hard questions you were worried about?

 

Some. And I've answered honestly and we're kind of at a stalemate right now. I don't even know if that's the right word. Basically we are kind of living separately in the same house right now.