Can a marriage still heal if

[JamesM]

What changed in the last three years assuming he never had affairs before these two?

 

Is he on ANY medications?

 

What is his age?

 

Has there been any traumatic incidences in your life or his?

 

I am not trying to excuse him, but you say that he is different. Maybe there is a reason.

 

I know of cases where someone took anti-depressants and he or she became a different person. Suddenly a man who was faithful went after prostitutes. A man that never took risks suddenly was unsafe.

 

Also, if your husband shows any signs of mood changes, this should be checked out.

 

Having said all of that, getting over a second affair may be nearly impossible for you no matter the reason, but still at the least it may get him back to normal.

[Red123]

How old is he? With the kids older and it just being the two of you, it's possible he's had a mid life crisis and obviously made some really awful choices. Has he told you why he felt the need to go outside of the marriage, not once but twice? Why he would risk hurting you (again) and knowing that the chances were going to be high that you'd kick him out and divorce him?

 

No decision has to be made right now, just know that whatever your choice is don't be pressured into it by him or anybody else.

 

Do your kids know about his affairs?

 

Well we have been together since we were 18. So this could be considered midlife for this relationship. The kids do not know. They still live with us. They are teen and early 20s. I meant they are not toddlers when I said they are older. The first affair was definitely different than the second. We were almost split up before it started and did split up for a while. He begged to stay together and I thought he really changed, I changed too. This time I really was floored. The only thing I did wrong, which I didn't do was get sick. Before he started this affair I was diagnosed with a chronic incurable illness and I fell hard. He says he felt very alone during that time. I say he should have talked about it, he says he couldn't. So this is so much better ?

[Red123]

I'm so sorry. My H had two affairs as well, they were 12 or so years apart though. I can't imagine so close together after he'd been faithful for so long. It must be deveststing. Mid life crisis?

 

You don't have to make a decision now. No one will judge you either way. I understand staying, as I have. And I wouldn't blame you if you left.

 

But a separation is proudly surely in order. He needs to move out completely and get some help for himself, on his own, and take some initiative Figure out what the hell is wrong with him.

 

Take care of you right now. I know it's hard. I'm so sorry.

Thanks. He is in IC with our former MC. He still lives here. He has no family here or close friends, we have friends but he doesn't talk to anyone about his life, so he doesn't have anyone to stay with and finances are too tight for a second place right now.

[Red123]

I'm so sorry. My H had two affairs as well, they were 12 or so years apart though. I can't imagine so close together after he'd been faithful for so long. It must be deveststing. Mid life crisis?

 

You don't have to make a decision now. No one will judge you either way. I understand staying, as I have. And I wouldn't blame you if you left.

 

But a separation is proudly surely in order. He needs to move out completely and get some help for himself, on his own, and take some initiative Figure out what the hell is wrong with him.

 

Take care of you right now. I know it's hard. I'm so sorry.

 

What changed in the last three years assuming he never had affairs before these two?

 

Is he on ANY medications?

 

What is his age?

 

Has there been any traumatic incidences in your life or his?

 

I am not trying to excuse him, but you say that he is different. Maybe there is a reason.

 

I know of cases where someone took anti-depressants and he or she became a different person. Suddenly a man who was faithful went after prostitutes. A man that never took risks suddenly was unsafe.

 

Also, if your husband shows any signs of mood changes, this should be checked out.

 

Having said all of that, getting over a second affair may be nearly impossible for you no matter the reason, but still at the least it may get him back to normal.

My illness has been very traumatic for all of us. I was diagnosed in 2015 but it started late 2014. He has supported me fully through all of it. Oh other than having an affair in 2016 that is.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Very sorry to hear about this. I know it's a difficult choice to make. All I can do is tell you what I THINK I would do in your situation. ( Because never say never )

 

But I think...and am pretty sure... this would be it. 2nd chances are a gift to begin with, and are a DAMN DIFFICULT gift to give at that.

 

You gave it, he opened it and crapped in it. Personally, I would not give a 3rd. I just don't think I could live with myself.

[Red123]

Very sorry to hear about this. I know it's a difficult choice to make. All I can do is tell you what I THINK I would do in your situation. ( Because never say never )

 

But I think...and am pretty sure... this would be it. 2nd chances are a gift to begin with, and are a DAMN DIFFICULT gift to give at that.

 

You gave it, he opened it and crapped in it. Personally, I would not give a 3rd. I just don't think I could live with myself.

 

Yeah, that's how I'm feeling right now. I'm also thinking of what kind of life this would be. Always wondering.... I really love the man, but I feel like I don't know him anymore, maybe I don't.

[sandylee1]

My fear about forgiving a second time, is that the WS would keep on thinking they could do it and that I don't have the courage to live without them, or that I love them too much, when it's clear they really don't feel the same, having seen me in pieces once and just continue to cheat on me.

[Red123]

My fear about forgiving a second time, is that the WS would keep on thinking they could do it and that I don't have the courage to live without them, or that I love them too much, when it's clear they really don't feel the same, having seen me in pieces once and just continue to cheat on me.

 

Yes. I agree. It sounds weird but I don't think it's lack of love. I really think he has become someone else. We all change in 20 years but I don't know if I want to know him closely anymore. The saddest part is that we get along so well, and have so much fun together. He has always been way more introverted than me but after I thought we reconciled, he really started putting himself out there, he was even dancing with me(my fave thing) when we would go out and participating so much more socially. I have amazing friends and lots of support but I always considered him my best friend. That will be the hardest part for me.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I feel like I don't know him anymore, maybe I don't.

 

 

Actually, maybe now you DO.

[Red123]

Actually, maybe now you DO.

 

As sad as that is maybe you are right

[Mr. Lucky]

But I think...and am pretty sure... this would be it. 2nd chances are a gift to begin with, and are a DAMN DIFFICULT gift to give at that.

 

Under the right circumstances, you can frame reconciling from an affair as an exercise in growth and self-improvement for both parties involved.

 

Somehow, doing it a second time seems the opposite of that. YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Red123]

Under the right circumstances, you can frame reconciling from an affair as an exercise in growth and self-improvement for both parties involved.

 

Somehow, doing it a second time seems the opposite of that. YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I don't know what ymmv is but I did reconcile once or so I thought and made changes so yeah, doing it again seems pointless

[Sparta]

Just remember you don't have to hurry in the anything.! take your time let things process. these decisions are life-changing, take your time you don't have to make up your mind on anything right now. You should slowdown give it a couple months, see were the chips land. just don't rug sweep any of this mess. Get infidelity books like; not just friends A whole list of books that on Amazon people here to recommend A list that you should pick up.

[merrmeade]

The chances of a serial cheater stopping their cheating ways are about as good as a leopard that says it will change its spots.

 

So decide if you are better off with him continuing to cheat or better off without him.

 

I think either choice is valid depending upon your individual circumstances. Just don't hold out for the impossible: being with him and having him be faithful.

oh man, I would never do reconciliation twice with a serial cheater.

 

My husband is going to be okay and won't return to it, I'm sure, with one caveat (and this is me talking; he would argue that he'll never do it again - until he does). The caveat is if I'm traveling and gone several months and he gets hit on. I feel sure he'll never get too old for being hit on. But this is conjecture and hasn't happened.

 

The other thing we have is me. I'm not the fool I was. There will be no loopholes. I'm not going to be disgraced like that ever again. This means there's no way he could get away with it. I'm smarter. I'm more tech savvy. And he was always a bad liar; I was just a worse skeptic. No more.

 

However, if he really tried, that would be another matter.

 

But it's not hard to tell you what I'd do:

I'd let her have him.

[Red123]

oh man, I would never do reconciliation twice with a serial cheater.

 

My husband is going to be okay and won't return to it, I'm sure, with one caveat (and this is me talking; he would argue that he'll never do it again - until he does). The caveat is if I'm traveling and gone several months and he gets hit on. I feel sure he'll never get too old for being hit on. But this is conjecture and hasn't happened.

 

The other thing we have is me. I'm not the fool I was. There will be no loopholes. I'm not going to be disgraced like that ever again. This means there's no way he could get away with it. I'm smarter. I'm more tech savvy. And he was always a bad liar; I was just a worse skeptic. No more.

 

However, if he really tried, that would be another matter.

 

But it's not hard to tell you what I'd do:

I'd let her have him.

I hear what your saying. I thought the same as you. I would never be fooled again. I'm not saying your H will do it, I'm just saying I thought mine would never do it again and he did. And here I am in the position I never thought I would be in. I don't want to have to check up on him for the rest of my life and monitor him. That's not the relationship I want so I'm pretty sure I will be making the choice to not.

[TrustedthenBusted]

oh man, I would never do reconciliation twice with a serial cheater.

 

My husband is going to be okay and won't return to it, I'm sure, with one caveat (and this is me talking; he would argue that he'll never do it again - until he does). The caveat is if I'm traveling and gone several months and he gets hit on. I feel sure he'll never get too old for being hit on. But this is conjecture and hasn't happened.

 

The other thing we have is me. I'm not the fool I was. There will be no loopholes. I'm not going to be disgraced like that ever again. This means there's no way he could get away with it. I'm smarter. I'm more tech savvy. And he was always a bad liar; I was just a worse skeptic. No more.

 

However, if he really tried, that would be another matter.

 

But it's not hard to tell you what I'd do:

I'd let her have him.

 

This! This! A thousand times This!

 

If I so much as caught my wife sending someone a smiley emoji that I thought was out of line, that would be that.

 

The initial rules were clear, and she broke them. The NEW and IMPROVED rules are absolutely crystal clear, as is the consequence for breaking them.

 

This isn't because I'm some tyrant. It's because it took me a long time to love and respect myself again after what happened, and I need to live with ME forever. Not necessarily her.

 

Besides, when we choose to leave, we aren't really making OUR decision, as much as we are completing THEIR decision for them.

[Red123]

This! This! A thousand times This!

 

If I so much as caught my wife sending someone a smiley emoji that I thought was out of line, that would be that.

 

The initial rules were clear, and she broke them. The NEW and IMPROVED rules are absolutely crystal clear, as is the consequence for breaking them.

 

This isn't because I'm some tyrant. It's because it took me a long time to love and respect myself again after what happened, and I need to live with ME forever. Not necessarily her.

 

Besides, when we choose to leave, we aren't really making OUR decision, as much as we are completing THEIR decision for them.

 

Their decision, that's how I feel.

[Red123]

Thanks for the replies. I know I'm stronger than I feel right now. I will get through this. I have been through worse and come out of it.

[Mr Blunt]

Red123, Figure out what is best for YOU then get busy working on yourself to be stronger in many areas. The goal is to get to the point that you can be self-sufficient enough to not need him to be a major player in your emotional and financial health. To have a contented life you have to get to the point that you do not hate him or want vengeance. In other words get to the point that you can live with him or without him.

 

The only way that you can start to have him as a significant other in your life is for him to prove to you with ACTIONS for a long time; not months but years. At this point he cannot be trusted even though his intensions maybe to do the right things; he has weakened his character considerably.

Bottom line is that you cannot build yourself up and help him fix himself at that same time. Right now it is either you or him so chose yourself for now.

 

 

In the future it may be possible for him to change enough for you to have a significant relationship with him. As far as him being a significant part of the family is totally his responsibility; your responsibility is for you to push yourself to get stronger in many areas because no one else is going to do that for you. Sorry for the bluntness but I am telling you how life is when you are a BS.

[Red123]

Red123, Figure out what is best for YOU then get busy working on yourself to be stronger in many areas. The goal is to get to the point that you can be self-sufficient enough to not need him to be a major player in your emotional and financial health. To have a contented life you have to get to the point that you do not hate him or want vengeance. In other words get to the point that you can live with him or without him.

 

The only way that you can start to have him as a significant other in your life is for him to prove to you with ACTIONS for a long time; not months but years. At this point he cannot be trusted even though his intensions maybe to do the right things; he has weakened his character considerably.

Bottom line is that you cannot build yourself up and help him fix himself at that same time. Right now it is either you or him so chose yourself for now.

No apology needed. Thank you, that's great advice

 

In the future it may be possible for him to change enough for you to have a significant relationship with him. As far as him being a significant part of the family is totally his responsibility; your responsibility is for you to push yourself to get stronger in many areas because no one else is going to do that for you. Sorry for the bluntness but I am telling you how life is when you are a BS.

No need to be sorry. That's great advice. Thank you

[seren]

Hi Red, your comment about having been diagnosed with a chronic illness just before the A started struck a chord with me. I have a chronic disease, was diagnosed just before the A and also had cancer, it resulted in me being medically retired and limits my mobility and ability to do so much. Before that I was uber fit, was a high achieving professional with an excellent salary. Around the same time H was in Iraq and was involved in a really bad event that was out of his control, it resulted in him feeling 'not good enough'. It was a combination of Combat Stress and my illness and his feeling hopeless and helpless. He began to feel he was no use, wasn't any good for me and so the A began. We had been together over 23 yrs and it was so out of character.

 

He said the A was a sort of self fulfilling prophecy as in, I am a bad, useless man, I am having an affair, I am a bad useless man, rinse, repeat. Not saying this is any way an excuse for an A, but it is one of the reasons. I wondered how your H coped when you told him about your diagnosis, if he felt he couldn't do anything to help, if he changed after you had been diagnosed and whether you feel it might have contributed to the affair decision. Not for one moment suggesting getting ill was something you could control, been there, done that whole guilt thing and the where have I gone feeling. Just that it is often one of the major life changes that happens that precedes an affair.

 

I hope you are feeling a lot better and learning to live with whatever you have. It is so, so hard. Me and my H have reconciled, he is my rock, life has changed so much. Don't know if I could forgive a second affair, the first almost broke me and us. But, you do what YOU need to. I wrote lists, pro's and cons, what I could live with and what I could leave. I find looking for balance and what worked for me was m,y decider, that and that I loved (love) H with all I have. I so hope it works out for you xx seven

[Mr. Lucky]

I wondered how your H coped when you told him about your diagnosis, if he felt he couldn't do anything to help, if he changed after you had been diagnosed and whether you feel it might have contributed to the affair decision. Not for one moment suggesting getting ill was something you could control, been there, done that whole guilt thing and the where have I gone feeling. Just that it is often one of the major life changes that happens that precedes an affair.

 

Seren, here's what I always struggle with when I read explanations like yours.

 

Of the spouses diagnosed with a serious or life-threatening illness, the majority aren't tasked with dealing with an unfaithful partner at the same time, regardless of the backstory. So how does that help clarify why one particular husband stepped through that window into infidelity?

 

It seems to me if you strip away the variables, the same (lack of) core values remain - lack of empathy, selfishness, poor impulse control, conflict avoidance. I've come to look at it like pregnancy - either you are or you aren't. As far as cheating goes, either you do or you don't. Everything else is just our often inadequate efforts to make sense of it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

Seren, here's what I always struggle with when I read explanations like yours.

 

Of the spouses diagnosed with a serious or life-threatening illness, the majority aren't tasked with dealing with an unfaithful partner at the same time, regardless of the backstory. So how does that help clarify why one particular husband stepped through that window into infidelity?

 

It seems to me if you strip away the variables, the same (lack of) core values remain - lack of empathy, selfishness, poor impulse control, conflict avoidance. I've come to look at it like pregnancy - either you are or you aren't. As far as cheating goes, either you do or you don't. Everything else is just our often inadequate efforts to make sense of it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr Lucky, you and I agree more often that we don't.

 

Having said that, I see seren's point. In fact, when I read the part about her chronic disease, I considered it a possible reason for Red123's husband's first affair too.

 

No, everyone doesn't react the same way. Everyone who drinks alcohol does not become an alcoholic. Everyone who smokes doesn't get cancer. Everyone who...and the list goes on and on.

 

But some do.

 

And to say that it is all about character always seems faulty for the simple reason that the day before hearing of the diagnosis, the H hadn't cheated in both cases. If you had met them, you would not have considered it a flaw then.

 

Each person is responsible for his or her actions, but we all have triggers that send us into a different direction than we could have possibly imagined. I know of a man who was stable and hard working. he had no noticeable mental issues. He was a "rock" for his family. But then his wife was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Inside of a year after the diagnosis, he became mentally disabled, was unable to work, and is just a shell of himself. Was that always there? Or did the wife's illness trigger it? Seren's husband could have had such a trigger that sent him over the edge. Time will tell if that is all it is.

 

In this case, a second affair started. While it may have been a trigger the first time, why did this happen again? Character or the same issue?

 

Sadly, IMO it doesn't matter. I am guessing the trust has been irrevocably broken. As I said earlier Red123, unless you think you can rebuild the trust in this marriage (which I usually try to encourage but in this case cannot), you may have to move on.

[Mr. Lucky]

No, everyone doesn't react the same way. Everyone who drinks alcohol does not become an alcoholic. Everyone who smokes doesn't get cancer. Everyone who...and the list goes on and on.

 

But some do.

 

And to say that it is all about character always seems faulty for the simple reason that the day before hearing of the diagnosis, the H hadn't cheated in both cases. If you had met them, you would not have considered it a flaw then.

 

James, understand and appreciate what you're saying. And your premise obviously carries some weight, otherwise I doubt this or similar forums would exist.

 

Perhaps I've been here too long, it does tend to make one cynical. But to use your examples above, there are physiological and biological reasons why things like alcohol and carcinogens are selective in their effect, some are blessed with assets at the cellular level others lack.

 

What's the character equivalent? We could discuss all day why, when tested, people react so differently. One person will run into a burning building to help, another will just watch. And one will fall prey to temptation, the other will count his blessings and walk away.

 

Each spouse puts this in their own perspective, understanding their partner's overall make-up and history. It's just tough to ignore past events when making future predictions...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited March 7, 2017 by Mr. Lucky

[merrmeade]

Yeah, I see that for sure. It's so bizarre, he was completely faithful for 17 years then in the last three it's like I don't know him anymore in regards to this.

And just how do you know that "he was completely faithful for 17 years"?

 

I caught my husband 4 years ago and he confessed to having had 3 other affairs over the course of our marriage. If he he'd not told me, I would NEVER have known. I did not suspect it at the time and have no memory of questionable behavior even now. I only know because he confessed it to me. There were no cell phones nor constant sources of information then. It was easier to keep such secrets. I would bet any amount of money your husband was NOT completely faithful for 17 years.