Being genuine versus being false.

[ZA Dater]

Lets be honest here when you search for someone and more so if you never seem to find anyone its tempting to embellish good qualities and pretend bad ones don't exist, likewise you tend to over sell or exaggerate good qualities and achievements.

 

My question is, is it truly possible to attract someone without doing that?

 

I look around me and it appears every single person chases the superficial, including me. I wont lie I want someone great looking to me. Why should I settle for less when others wont. The question is though is a search based on superficial criteria easier than one based on intangible ones?

 

Much to the surprise of this forum there is someone I do like (not K) who really is fantastic but far out of my league. Is there really much point in looking stupid, I don't really think there is because for the most part her type seems to be heavily based on the superficial.

 

I am actually reaching the point where I would rather imagine the idea of dating than actually try experience reality, which I guess is sad but I cannot seem to overcome the superficial part or how to get myself to appeal to those I like.

 

Perhaps I need to stop being genuine and live a lie to an extent, perhaps that's how you attract people, other than throwing money around.

[basil67]

I can't imagine dating a new person and giving a list of good and bad qualities. I would just be myself and let them come to their own conclusions. That said, if I became aware of a fault, I would work to reduce or eliminate it to the best of my ability.

 

I'm afraid that I can't help you with the appearance thing because your idea that others don't date people who aren't beautiful to them is rubbish. I've always been attracted to ordinary looking guys. I suspect you are walking around blinkered and not seeing real life couples in all their ordinariness.

[PrettyEmily77]

Forget trying to mold yourself to what you think other people admire, want or are attracted to, firstly because people admire, want or are attracted to a spectrum of things that can't be restricted to one neat list, and secondly because it shouldn't matter.

 

Being true to yourself will allow you to live a more authentic life for yourself first and foremost; in turn, you will attract authentic people with similar values to yours, whatever they may be.

 

Not one person is perfect or has it all figured out all the time, and those who can't show any vulnerability or a less glowing side to themselves have issues of their own, IMO.

 

That being said, how do you know this girl is out of your league? Are you projecting or assuming?

[elaine567]

The trouble here is that all is in your mind, it is a mental exercise, there is no real life experience, no real life emotion involved.

It is all catalogue shopping. She looks good, I want her, her looks are not up to my standard, I don't want her.

 

No-one IRL lives like that. Even "models" get old, they get fat, they get wrinkly, they get tired and sick, they do not wear make-up, they are a real live person, not a cardboard cut out.

 

Until you actually get out there and taste life then you have no idea of what it is you truly like.

I may "love" a car, I research it, I have made up my mind, it is the car for me, BUT until I actually go and sit in it and drive it, all that research is meaningless, I may in fact hate it...

 

Superficial attraction is first base stuff it is not something you can hinge "everything" on.

Is this new crush the "model" who helped you upgrade your wardrobe?

 

Being genuine versus being false.

Everyone is "false" to a certain extent, we all like to paint a better picture of ourselves to others; we do not want to be seen as inferior.

We(gen.) want people to like us, so we do not go out of our way to highlight our own faults. People who do, tend to get avoided as it is embarrassing and not very much fun to be in the company of a person who is ALWAYS putting themselves down.

A little self denigration can be very funny and entertaining, but a person who is grimly "realistic" about themselves to the point of ridiculousness is avoided.

 

Most people are a happy medium, they sail a middle road, they do not go overboard in either direction, they try to subtly emphasise their good points, and they try not to wallow in their bad points.

[preraph]

It's natural to be extra careful not to say or do something to run a new date off. And for a lot of guys who are constantly scheming for sex, they will flat out lie and say whatever the girl wants to hear and just try to fool her into it. This is why it's so foolish to get serious about someone until you've known them for at least several months.

 

I do think though that people who are genuine up front will more quickly attract the right person for them, up to a point. But it's still true that say a girl who may never really get over her last big breakup should be authentic and bring that up in the first date or two and say how much she loved him and how heartbroken she is, she'd rarely get a second date.

 

So it's about restraint. But there's no fault to that girl who has been heartbroken or the guy who has unless they are still chasing the person or not moving on.

 

On the other hand if a guy spewed on the first date or two how disgusting he finds any woman who isn't thin, this would likely be offensive to even a thin woman. The guy may have enough good qualities to override his shallow attitude towards unthin women but a new date doesn't know that yet.

 

So it's a balancing act, the key word being restraint, knowing to avoid sensitive topics until you really know someone well.

[ZA Dater]

The trouble here is that all is in your mind, it is a mental exercise, there is no real life experience, no real life emotion involved.

It is all catalogue shopping. She looks good, I want her, her looks are not up to my standard, I don't want her.

 

No-one IRL lives like that. Even "models" get old, they get fat, they get wrinkly, they get tired and sick, they do not wear make-up, they are a real live person, not a cardboard cut out.

 

Until you actually get out there and taste life then you have no idea of what it is you truly like.

I may "love" a car, I research it, I have made up my mind, it is the car for me, BUT until I actually go and sit in it and drive it, all that research is meaningless, I may in fact hate it...

 

Superficial attraction is first base stuff it is not something you can hinge "everything" on.

Is this new crush the "model" who helped you upgrade your wardrobe?

 

Being genuine versus being false.

Everyone is "false" to a certain extent, we all like to paint a better picture of ourselves to others; we do not want to be seen as inferior.

We(gen.) want people to like us, so we do not go out of our way to highlight our own faults. People who do, tend to get avoided as it is embarrassing and not very much fun to be in the company of a person who is ALWAYS putting themselves down.

A little self denigration can be very funny and entertaining, but a person who is grimly "realistic" about themselves to the point of ridiculousness is avoided.

 

Most people are a happy medium, they sail a middle road, they do not go overboard in either direction, they try to subtly emphasise their good points, and they try not to wallow in their bad points.

 

A very thought provoking post.

 

 

I wont lie, looks are important, they are to most people, they are the ground on which attraction is based in my opinion. I'd content that catalogue shopping is what most of 18-35yo do to lesser or greater degrees.

 

 

Sure, everyone changes but for someone who has no experience the allure of someone who is attractive is there. What I am trying to say here is eventually I am reaching a point where all the intangible selling points I have aren't really what the market wants and thus I somehow have to tailor how I present, even if that means making up the biggest lot of nonsense which makes me appear superficially better than I am.

 

 

I agree its not everything but as you say its first base and sometimes you can find what lies behind it is rather attractive. Conversely if there is no attraction what lies behind is largely irrelevant to a certain degree.

 

 

Agree I guess it is a balancing act.

[ZA Dater]

I can't imagine dating a new person and giving a list of good and bad qualities. I would just be myself and let them come to their own conclusions. That said, if I became aware of a fault, I would work to reduce or eliminate it to the best of my ability.

 

I'm afraid that I can't help you with the appearance thing because your idea that others don't date people who aren't beautiful to them is rubbish. I've always been attracted to ordinary looking guys. I suspect you are walking around blinkered and not seeing real life couples in all their ordinariness.

 

Perhaps true to an extent. My social circle is made up of "beautiful" people in the sense they really don't have much issue finding dates, just last week one of them turned to me "have you found a gf yet", here is a guy who at 29 has pretty much everything in life, superficially he has it all going for him, add to which he is smart, well heeled and at the end of the day he has finds it easy to find people.

 

 

He doesn't need to extoll virtues nor does he really need to do any selling either. My point here is for most of us there needs to be a certain degree of embellishment, especially if you cant count on looks to help your cause.

[ZA Dater]

Forget trying to mold yourself to what you think other people admire, want or are attracted to, firstly because people admire, want or are attracted to a spectrum of things that can't be restricted to one neat list, and secondly because it shouldn't matter.

 

Being true to yourself will allow you to live a more authentic life for yourself first and foremost; in turn, you will attract authentic people with similar values to yours, whatever they may be.

 

Not one person is perfect or has it all figured out all the time, and those who can't show any vulnerability or a less glowing side to themselves have issues of their own, IMO.

 

That being said, how do you know this girl is out of your league? Are you projecting or assuming?

 

 

I just need to look at her last few bf's to determine that, its a lovely idea, imagine something nice and its a great distraction from the reality being the matches on Tinder, I don't find any of them attractive at all. At the end of the day that's a gauge of what I can get.

 

 

Sure, I chat to these people and I wont lie, its quite easy to appear really impressive without putting too much effort in, there are some who are exceedingly friendly. Selling who I am works really well with these people but the problem is I do not find any of them attractive at all.

 

 

I have always frowned on guys who lie to impress but perhaps they are frowning at me the genuine guy who presents no competition at all because the market he wants doesn't match up to his qualities. I have observed all sorts of selling techniques and for the most part the virtues being extolled are absolute half truths at best. Yet, this seems to bring almost universal success.

 

 

Perhaps I need to qualify what I mean by success. Simply being able to attract someone you find attractive would qualify as a success, taking them on date would be a success.

 

 

This has been helpful I'll keep being genuine.

[mightycpa]

There's a difference between putting your best foot forward and letting all your warts show. Both can be genuine displays.

 

For example, if you run around to the other side of the car and open the door for your date, are you prepared to do that for the rest of your life? Probably not, right? That might be putting your best foot forward, or it might be putting on a show, depending on one's point of view.

 

On the other hand, running around to the other side of the car so that you can get into the building while you ignore your date might be letting those warts show.

 

I wonder what you're talking about. What would you consider a show vs. being genuine? Have any examples of what you're like vs. what you'd like to display?

[ZA Dater]

There's a difference between putting your best foot forward and letting all your warts show. Both can be genuine displays.

 

For example, if you run around to the other side of the car and open the door for your date, are you prepared to do that for the rest of your life? Probably not, right? That might be putting your best foot forward, or it might be putting on a show, depending on one's point of view.

 

On the other hand, running around to the other side of the car so that you can get into the building while you ignore your date might be letting those warts show.

 

I wonder what you're talking about. What would you consider a show vs. being genuine? Have any examples of what you're like vs. what you'd like to display?

 

Well mostly people talking themselves up in the hope those talking points are considered alluring

[mightycpa]

Well mostly people talking themselves up in the hope those talking points are considered alluring

That can be a sign of flirting, where you tell something good about yourself that imparts a sense of value.

 

"I just won the championship at my club" or "I can't see you next week, my job is sending me across the country" or "I have a little sports car and I was working on it all day. Today I replaced the convertible top."

 

These kinds of statements, if true, show your value, and invite questions, if she's at all interested. It's not being disingenuous. If untrue, then you're just a liar and a braggart.

 

Oh, and speaking of braggart,

 

"I just won the championship at my club. It wasn't even close, I destroyed everybody who challenged me." or "I can't see you next week, I have a very important client across the country next week, who chose me specifically for the job because they know I'm the only one who can do it." or "I own a very expensive Porsche and today, I had the top replaced. I stayed at the shop all day to make sure they did it right. Those cars are so expensive to keep."

 

So it not only depends on what you say, but how you say it.

 

But really, I was asking about you. What do you have in mind? Any idea?

[ZA Dater]

That can be a sign of flirting, where you tell something good about yourself that imparts a sense of value.

 

"I just won the championship at my club" or "I can't see you next week, my job is sending me across the country" or "I have a little sports car and I was working on it all day. Today I replaced the convertible top."

 

These kinds of statements, if true, show your value, and invite questions, if she's at all interested. It's not being disingenuous. If untrue, then you're just a liar and a braggart.

 

Oh, and speaking of braggart,

 

"I just won the championship at my club. It wasn't even close, I destroyed everybody who challenged me." or "I can't see you next week, I have a very important client across the country next week, who chose me specifically for the job because they know I'm the only one who can do it." or "I own a very expensive Porsche and today, I had the top replaced. I stayed at the shop all day to make sure they did it right. Those cars are so expensive to keep."

 

So it not only depends on what you say, but how you say it.

 

But really, I was asking about you. What do you have in mind? Any idea?

 

I think I was basically meaning talking things about and embellishing them to seem more significant than what they actually are.

 

 

About me, I was thinking of just trying to make ordinary seems a little less ordinary and more interesting.

[mightycpa]

I think I was basically meaning talking things about and embellishing them to seem more significant than what they actually are.

 

 

About me, I was thinking of just trying to make ordinary seems a little less ordinary and more interesting.

Yeah, so without an actual example, that seems like it would be counterproductive. People can see through that a mile away. Far better to actually go do something interesting, or own up to your plain-vanillaness.

[ZA Dater]

Yeah, so without an actual example, that seems like it would be counterproductive. People can see through that a mile away. Far better to actually go do something interesting, or own up to your plain-vanillaness.

 

I think I am interesting just not marketable interesting. I look around me and selling points seem to be superficially generic. I guess what I am saying is how do I get someone I want being me without having to talk myself up.

 

Looking around I am almost at the point of really just going after material things to bring some happiness because they seem realistically speaking more attainable.

[bebe23]

I think I am interesting just not marketable interesting. I look around me and selling points seem to be superficially generic. I guess what I am saying is how do I get someone I want being me without having to talk myself up.

 

Looking around I am almost at the point of really just going after material things to bring some happiness because they seem realistically speaking more attainable.

 

That just seems so sad. You'd rather have material things than someone to love you and/or a family? Why would you have to talk yourself up?

 

Let's just say you really do look like Quasimodo or Jabba the Hutt. Ever go to any grocery store, or people-watch? There are Quasi/Jabba couples who love each other and have children (sometimes cute children.) It just seems like all of your posting history adds up to one thing. You feel ENTITLED to a physically gorgeous woman and compare your social life to your 'beautiful people' friends. Well, go to a beer pub and find some Average Joe friends instead. All this bitterness is so sad to read, ZADater.

[Jj66]

Don't embellish anything. Just be more interesting.

[ZA Dater]

That just seems so sad. You'd rather have material things than someone to love you and/or a family? Why would you have to talk yourself up?

 

Let's just say you really do look like Quasimodo or Jabba the Hutt. Ever go to any grocery store, or people-watch? There are Quasi/Jabba couples who love each other and have children (sometimes cute children.) It just seems like all of your posting history adds up to one thing. You feel ENTITLED to a physically gorgeous woman and compare your social life to your 'beautiful people' friends. Well, go to a beer pub and find some Average Joe friends instead. All this bitterness is so sad to read, ZADater.

 

 

Things are only as sad as you want them to be. In truth based on my experiences I think I would prefer material things yes, which makes me appear a bad person in the eyes of many.

 

 

The point really is I am trying to decide, do I be me, the same me who has had no success at all or do I modify me to try to appeal to what I like.

 

 

Average isn't something that's interested me, someone can be average looking but superlative in intellect, they do exist. Do you not compare yourself to others? It seems like the most natural human characteristic. My entire life I haven't fitted in and I guess the status quo is due to that fact.

 

 

In everything I do I try to do it well, nobody ever strives to be simply average. I am really not entitled to anything but the reality pretty much everything I like falls into the category of unattainable which would be so bad but I can tell you something, when you have had superlative, average doesn't really do it anymore.

 

 

For all I am, for all I appear to be I have quite a soft heart and have all the time in the world those few people who have got to know me and I realised I can only ever be me, so this topic did answer that question.

 

 

To answer your question, I guess it is sad, I always wanted what everyone else seemed to have, be it one great date, a kiss, buying someone special a gift but the reality is for whatever reason I cannot find that and while peace might be difficult to find, hopefully one day I may find....peace and solace that I lived life on my own terms.

 

 

I still have the ideal idea in my mind which I guess is better than nothing.

[ZA Dater]

Don't embellish anything. Just be more interesting.

 

I drive supercars, write about them, have been published, have a keen interest in politics, get to go to some amazing places, plan events, widely respected. Accomplished academically what nobody thought I could do, overcame a learning disability. Am articulate, well spoken, enjoy some of the nicer things in life from time to time but I walk with the common touch.

 

 

I care I give, I am honest to a fault.

 

 

But yes I suppose I need to be more mainstream interesting.

[Sweetfish]

Lets be honest here when you search for someone and more so if you never seem to find anyone its tempting to embellish good qualities and pretend bad ones don't exist, likewise you tend to over sell or exaggerate good qualities and achievements.

 

My question is, is it truly possible to attract someone without doing that?

 

I look around me and it appears every single person chases the superficial, including me. I wont lie I want someone great looking to me. Why should I settle for less when others wont. The question is though is a search based on superficial criteria easier than one based on intangible ones?

 

Much to the surprise of this forum there is someone I do like (not K) who really is fantastic but far out of my league. Is there really much point in looking stupid, I don't really think there is because for the most part her type seems to be heavily based on the superficial.

 

I am actually reaching the point where I would rather imagine the idea of dating than actually try experience reality, which I guess is sad but I cannot seem to overcome the superficial part or how to get myself to appeal to those I like.

 

Perhaps I need to stop being genuine and live a lie to an extent, perhaps that's how you attract people, other than throwing money around.

 

 

Men are attracted to looks... don't be ashamed of your biological programming.

 

Women are not attracted to looks biologically so you will get different answers to your questions.

[preraph]

I can't imagine dating a new person and giving a list of good and bad qualities. I would just be myself and let them come to their own conclusions. That said, if I became aware of a fault, I would work to reduce or eliminate it to the best of my ability.

 

I'm afraid that I can't help you with the appearance thing because your idea that others don't date people who aren't beautiful to them is rubbish. I've always been attracted to ordinary looking guys. I suspect you are walking around blinkered and not seeing real life couples in all their ordinariness.

 

It's because he's the one who only likes the beautiful ones. So he's missing the ones that aren't his ideal who might like him.

[mightycpa]

Men are attracted to looks... don't be ashamed of your biological programming.

 

Women are not attracted to looks biologically so you will get different answers to your questions.

ZA, I daresay that women are not attracted to supercars either, other than the attraction of being seen in one. I doubt many women would be tempted read your articles or to discuss the finer points of gear ratios, turning radius or choice of leather. Is one of those cars your daily driver? How do you incorporate that into your conversation without sounding like you're bragging? How do drive that around without people assuming that you're compensating for a little something? Know what I mean?

 

I'm curious to know if the rest of your lifestyle matches the image of a supercar. Maybe when you go out to meet women, you're slumming around a little too much, and you need to upgrade your venues. I'm just guessing of course, because you don't provide a lot of detail.

 

Politics may or may not be the best honey to attract bees with, depending on how well your color matches the bubble of your geography. I can imagine that recounting your academic achievements juxtaposed against your learning disabilities leaves women's panties as bereft of moisture as the Sahara. A guy who travels a lot may have some interesting stories, but then again, he's advertising that he's not around all the time, and vacation tales are not the stuff that generates lasting interest. Have you ever been to the Sahara?

 

Maybe the way you pitch woo comes out in your posts. Again, guessing.

 

The last thing I'll offer is that I've rarely ever met a woman who didn't like to talk about the stuff that she thinks and/or does. If you're a good interviewer, you can leave a woman with the impression she likes you, even if you've barely given any details about yourself. Maybe the trick for you will be to stop worrying about making yourself interesting, and give the impression that the woman is the most interesting thing in the world to you.

[Jj66]

I drive supercars, write about them, have been published, have a keen interest in politics, get to go to some amazing places, plan events, widely respected. Accomplished academically what nobody thought I could do, overcame a learning disability. Am articulate, well spoken, enjoy some of the nicer things in life from time to time but I walk with the common touch.

 

 

I care I give, I am honest to a fault.

 

 

But yes I suppose I need to be more mainstream interesting.

 

Sounds interesting enough. Something else must be going on.

 

Can you carry on a conversation? Do you ever laugh? Make others laugh? Do you ever show an interest in others?

 

Do you go after women you have a legitimate chance with? Maybe it's just a matter of unrealistic expectations.

[ZA Dater]

Sounds interesting enough. Something else must be going on.

 

Can you carry on a conversation? Do you ever laugh? Make others laugh? Do you ever show an interest in others?

 

Do you go after women you have a legitimate chance with? Maybe it's just a matter of unrealistic expectations.

 

I don't laugh but I can sometimes get others to laugh, my humour is of the rather dry kind.

 

 

I never have a legitimate chance with anyone I remotely like, Tinder is the best example of this, I like everyone and see who likes me back, I then try to converse with them and there is nothing really appealing about them at all. Perhaps you are right.

[ZA Dater]

ZA, I daresay that women are not attracted to supercars either, other than the attraction of being seen in one. I doubt many women would be tempted read your articles or to discuss the finer points of gear ratios, turning radius or choice of leather. Is one of those cars your daily driver? How do you incorporate that into your conversation without sounding like you're bragging? How do drive that around without people assuming that you're compensating for a little something? Know what I mean?

 

I'm curious to know if the rest of your lifestyle matches the image of a supercar. Maybe when you go out to meet women, you're slumming around a little too much, and you need to upgrade your venues. I'm just guessing of course, because you don't provide a lot of detail.

 

Politics may or may not be the best honey to attract bees with, depending on how well your color matches the bubble of your geography. I can imagine that recounting your academic achievements juxtaposed against your learning disabilities leaves women's panties as bereft of moisture as the Sahara. A guy who travels a lot may have some interesting stories, but then again, he's advertising that he's not around all the time, and vacation tales are not the stuff that generates lasting interest. Have you ever been to the Sahara?

 

Maybe the way you pitch woo comes out in your posts. Again, guessing.

 

The last thing I'll offer is that I've rarely ever met a woman who didn't like to talk about the stuff that she thinks and/or does. If you're a good interviewer, you can leave a woman with the impression she likes you, even if you've barely given any details about yourself. Maybe the trick for you will be to stop worrying about making yourself interesting, and give the impression that the woman is the most interesting thing in the world to you.

 

Well thanks for the candid honesty. I never said my interests were attractive ones but there are certainly different to the stereotypical football/soccer/rugby most guys seem to into, sorry I forgot basketball and baseball!

 

 

I actually don't brag at all, I never usually sell my achievement or the cars I get to drive, if I do I bring them up in casual conversation. Should I sell this more, I doubt it because it adds nothing. However, I have noted that bragging can work some of the time.

 

 

When I comes to meeting people, ALL I have met have been from online unless its a very rare foray to a social event, why because I don't "work" at clubs or places like that, I cant do anything there and just feel like a fish out of water....with my glass of water in front of me.

 

 

I don't recount my academic achievements either or my learning disability, spent enough of my formative years being teased. What I do is find out as much about the person in front of me as possible, what interests them, what they like, their background and yes I sometimes get asked about myself, which is where this whole thing comes in, honest transparency versus embellished to sound good but still largely truthful.

 

 

Sure I could make up that I have travelled, I can sit and talk utter rubbish but I would prefer not to. I have enough general knowledge to that if I wanted to but I don't want to.

 

 

I haven't been to the Sahara but have been somewhere close, google Great Karoo.

 

 

Unfortunately I am not blessed with magnetic charm, in fact someone once said I was cold and charmless, an insult I took on the chin.

 

 

The bold part. I am very good at doing that PROVIDED the person in front of me is capable of keeping my interest and talking. This has happened from time to time and I have enjoyed those dates but nothing came of them because in all instances she wasn't into me.

 

 

I probably come across as cold here which isn't really true, experiences excite me, which finds its way into who I pursue, for me an experience is defined by the person as a whole, everything about them and not one aspect. This is a recent phenomenon, its always been the core of what attracts me to people which is why I can never relate when I hear "she looks hot", sure she might but she might not be able to utter one intelligent sentence.

 

 

If anything, this thread re-affirmed that I must simply just be me and honest about that rather than try and construct some elaborate half truth.

[basil67]

I drive supercars, write about them, have been published, have a keen interest in politics, get to go to some amazing places, plan events, widely respected. Accomplished academically what nobody thought I could do, overcame a learning disability. Am articulate, well spoken, enjoy some of the nicer things in life from time to time but I walk with the common touch.

 

Wow. So many great topics - I could talk to you for hours.

 

Question is, could you also take interest in me?