The post that I hoped I'd never have to write.

[Saracena]

Sal, I'm so truly sorry to read your post. The way she broke up with you was awful-a selfish act with little thought for your feelings. I hope for your sake she regrets what she did and gives you some answers.

 

Take care of you right now. Wishing you all the best,

 

Sara x

[salparadise]

Exhibit A: Here we have a unique opportunity to display discord in a relationship. I disagree with this. I will handle it by not wearing the red lacy thing tonight.

 

Seriously, Sal's ex is not evil []

Sal, it didn't work out. Do not waste time trying to evaluate the mentality of a person that does not tell the truth.

 

Do consider why that escaped your attention.

 

Best.

 

Thank you Timshel. You're right I think about her not being truthful. She was not authentic about feelings, attachment, and value of the relationship. I see it now, of course, but in the midst of it all I fell in love.

 

I believed, and that belief had plenty of time to become integrated into my sense of being, hope for the future, finally having grasped the gold ring and not letting go of it due to fear of vulnerability. I embraced my vulnerability, communicated about it, dealt with my anxiety... and decided this was my opportunity to have what we all want in this life. To love and be loved.

 

The bright side of this is affirming that I am able. I am proud of my ability to go deep, to allow myself to love. I want it more than I'm afraid of it. I will get through it and I will try again with someone else eventually. But in the meantime I have grieving to take care of. I will fully embrace that too. I surely have my shortcomings, but authenticity with regard to feelings, embracing intimacy and vulnerability, and willingness to take a chance on love is not among them.

 

I don't blame myself for not seeing it. She was masterful. She played me like a violin. If I allowed myself to go defensive, be resentful and cynical it would diminish my ability to love again, so I'll try not to do that. But, learning that the facts did not match my integrated beliefs left me in a state of bewilderment –– cognitive dissonance. That needs to be resolved in order for the healing to take place. Understanding her nature and motivations will allow me to heal without turning cynical. I am INTJ and that means that I need to understand the big picture, to find the framework that make sense of incongruity. I don't intend to dwell on it indefinitely, but once I have the rational explanation I will be able to move forward without bewilderment and insecurity, and preserve my emotional availability.

 

I appreciate your good wishes, and everyone's. It means a lot to have this community when the going gets rough. Thank you!

Edited February 12, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Timshel]

She is smart, your ex, in a cold/clinical way. You did dodge a bullet. If it's any comfort, the next dude will have no better luck.

A person is that way or not.

 

You are attracted to her because the shell of herself is quite pristine. People aren't though. I've met so many of her.

Don't delve into her mind, it's a dark/empty place. I threw away my career because of the darkness. A good person can't live like that and can't unsee...

 

She taught you something about yourself, your relationship with her has value.

The hurting/blindsided part sucks but the lesson is brilliant and beautiful if you learn it. Bitterness is not the thing.

 

Because you're a smart dude, good days ahead friend.

[Sweetfish]

Sal, it didn't work out. Do not waste time trying to evaluate the mentality of a person that does not tell the truth.

 

Do consider why that escaped your attention.

 

Best.

 

Timshel... I disagree.

 

What happen if this was a 2 or 3 or 5 year relationship. You don't just write off a perfectly good relationship when someone completely goes off the grid. What happen if they had kids or got married.

 

Your not going to just write off... "oh the love was just a lie" im sorry thats not good enough. Your gonna want answers.. it could be mental or it could be another man either way your gonna wanna know what "did I do"

 

You invested time, money, and resources on this person. You shared private details. Open up to this person and may started to set the relationship on a path for more... maybe within a couple months he would ask her to marry... who knows

 

So yes if her mental health was this reactive which everyone here can clearly see... I think the O.P. deserves to know this as anyone else. Again, your lack of knowledge is your guide and I don't fault you for that... but you should question everything in a relationship as they can hold answers to own your self.

[viatori patuit]

I am kind of new here, and I hope I am not interrupting. I did see some interesting things here though that provoked some thoughts.

 

I have been that person who was simply no longer interested. While I am not proud of it, I did my best to break it off without drama. Of course that spun wildly out of control and I am still paying for it (over a year later), but it was a best efforts kind of thing.

 

I have also had that happen to me - an ex simply walked out one day with no notice. I thought her evil and nasty at the time, but after time I can see she needed to go. Ironically I used that situation to guide the first one I mentioned.

 

As a result, I tend to think that break up method is simply not important. We can classify it as classless, vindictive or whatever. None of that alters the fact that the relationship has been terminated. I thought the ex who dumped me was evil, and then I turned around and did the same thing. Does that make me awful? I hope not. But people need to do what they need to do, even if it is counter to me.

 

If this is the first time this sort of thing has happened to the OP I can relate. My first time was awful. I dropped to 130 pounds (I am 6.1) and slept maybe 4 hours a week. It was a wonderful lesson in what I wanted however and after time I would not trade that experience for anything in the world.

 

Second, I have become aware of a double standard on occasion between the sexes. It is amazing how as a man I should accept that I need to be tall, have a secure future (read make money) and take care certain things in a relationship. When I see this type of thing it tends to make me question the relationship. I am certainly not free to tell her to lose weight, have plastic surgery, and clean the house (not that I would). We certainly have to be physically attracted to each other, but if a woman will not date a man who makes less than say 100k she hardly has the right to complain when a man tells her to lose weight. Arbitrary is arbitrary no matter who applies it and no matter how it comes out. Maybe it is my sense of fair play, but I would think this type of double standard, left un checked, would lead to relationship death. Someone is going to resent it after a while and that resentment will ultimately kill any relationship.

 

If the OP is correct, and this woman was strongly feminist then it is possible that no one will make her happy. Seeing motive in everything and always watching for "sexual injustice" will drive anyone crazy. If one mistake makes this person freak out, imagine what a lifetime of mistakes will do. I highly doubt she would have accepted criticism of her own mistakes as easily as she had doled out criticism to the OP. That is a double standard and exactly the type of behavior I was referring too.

[Sweetfish]

Don't delve into her mind, it's a dark/empty place. I threw away my career because of the darkness. A good person can't live like that and can't unsee...

 

She taught you something about yourself, your relationship with her has value.

The hurting/blindsided part sucks but the lesson is brilliant and beautiful if you learn it. Bitterness is not the thing.

 

Because you're a smart dude, good days ahead friend.

 

 

Exactly, there are MANY people like this and many codepedant people attract these people like files. Because the maniupation is much more easier and gas-light goes much more smoother.

 

And guess what the more you learn the QUEs. You can avoid them as why they are called "wolves in sheeps clothing" and maybe if you knew those QUEs you would have that career. Its simply introverts have a higher tolerance to whats not acceptable in a relationship and will write-off behavior.. as introvert are slightly more codepedant...so the most observant person... becomes the most blind.

 

Hense the statement... played like a violin.

 

These people have no EMPATHY and unable love.

This is not a case of it didnt just workout.

 

The O.P. knew this chick didnt have it in her to love. You can sense it in his writing. That was his QUE. But the love felt real... he wrote it off because it felt real.

 

And they do come back... so this is my window to let him gain as much info as possible just in case she comes back... because if she has no one else to run to.

 

He will be armed with knowledge and can access his next move.

 

Cheers!

[spiderowl]

Dear Sal,

 

You were honourable and true and loved her. That's all that matters. It shows what kind of person you are, a person with integrity.

 

xx

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't think it's anywhere near as complicated as some people in this thread are making it out to be.

 

She wasn't as invested as you thought, OP. She went through the motions, but there were signs she wasn't integrating you into her life in the way many would. She kept herself at a distance while at the same time saying all the "right" things. But still, the true emotional distance was there.

 

The tow-truck incident is not what caused this. She blew it out of proportion because she wanted out and needed a reason to walk away. This was the best she could come up with.

 

I'm sorry this happened, Sal. You certainly deserve a lot better.

[Taramere]

This is a post that I hoped I'd never have to write. My wonderful, beautiful relationship is over. I though perhaps that she would be my life partner. I am left lonely and heartbroken, having a hard time eating and sleeping. I have dissonance because the way she did it was cruel and I didn't get any closure. It sucks. No one to talk to either. It's been two weeks and I'm just now able to write about it.

 

Awful situation. Sorry to hear you're going through this...and I'm glad to read you've been helped by talking about it.

 

I'm hesitant to try to analyse your situation to any degree when it's all so raw. I think a lot of us have been in that place at some point where we thought "why didn't this person try harder for me? We had a great relationship, and then the moment I put a foot wrong - out the door they went..." I've certainly been there, and I know how soul destroying it can feel. For quite some time I became immersed in reading about narcissistic personality disorder and so on. These can be quite fascinating subjects, and in some kind of a way reading about it is therapeutic. But at some point it feels unhealthy and unhelpful to be too immersed in reading about various personality disorders.

 

I still think that particular ex of mine did have a fairly serious issue - partly because of how he treated at me, also because of how he interacted with others and most particularly because he had a history of self harm in his teens. When you're in a relationship with somebody like that, it's easy to fall into this "carer - put my own needs on the backburner because this person is particularly fragile" mode. And then, of course, once you've stopped analysing the other person's part in it you can start beating yourself up with "am I a co-dependent?" and so on. And frankly, if you want assistance in beating yourself up along those lines you probably won't run short of it on an internet advice board where reference to and analysis of various psychology theories is a really popular pastime.

 

On a very basic level, leaving aside any question of possible personality disorders in your ex and so on...the fact that the two of you never argued in 17 months does suggest to me that there must have been some degree of bottling up of feelings going on. Maybe not quite as great communication as you thought you had. It's all very well to have hugely intense ideological and philosophical discussions - but sometimes there are other types of conversations people in a relationship need to be having (about their feelings, petty irritations etc). It's normal and human to have days when you're a bit off. A bit snappy. When you hurt the other person's feelings a bit, or have yours hurt..and after a bit of sulking or tension some conflict resolution is in order.

 

If you and your ex never argued, then the two of you never figured out how to resolve conflicts between you...and on that basis, the eternal sweetness and light and absence of arguing might have, as I think others have said, had more to do with conflict avoidance than with the two of you being so thoroughly in harmony that there was never even a hint of conflict or disagreement. And I'm afraid that the way she has behaved in breaking up with you tends to support that being the case. Perhaps she spent the relationship trying to be too perfect. Maybe there's a mental health problem figuring in there that results in her overcompensating - by, again, trying to be too perfect. I think it would have been preferable, Sal, if the two of you had had the occasional argument or disagreement.

 

How are you generally, in terms of getting into disagreements or arguments with women? Is it something you would want to avoid if at all possible? Would you be likely to admire/like/love a woman less if she argued or disagreed with you at times? I'm just wondering about this "it was a great relationship because we never argued" thing. It might be that the definition of a great relationship is more like "when we come into conflict, we work it out pretty well..and the occasional conflict has helped us to know and understand eachother a lot better."

Edited February 12, 2017 by Taramere

[Timshel]

Timshel... I disagree.

 

What happen if this was a 2 or 3 or 5 year relationship. You don't just write off a perfectly good relationship when someone completely goes off the grid. What happen if they had kids or got married.

 

It happens. People deal with it.

 

Your not going to just write off... "oh the love was just a lie" im sorry thats not good enough. Your gonna want answers.. it could be mental or it could be another man either way your gonna wanna know what "did I do"

 

Yep, as crappy as it is, people do let it go.

You invested time, money, and resources on this person. You shared private details. Open up to this person and may started to set the relationship on a path for more... maybe within a couple months he would ask her to marry... who knows

 

In an intimate romantic situation, it's the risk we take. A person really can't have intimacy/love without vulnerability.

'Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.'

 

So yes if her mental health was this reactive which everyone here can clearly see... I think the O.P. deserves to know this as anyone else. Again, your lack of knowledge is your guide and I don't fault you for that... but you should question everything in a relationship as they can hold answers to own your self.

 

So, though Sal seems smashing, we are all individuals....intimacy and love don't change that. I would die for my kids but they are their own self, I have no right or ownership of them.

The only thing love entitles me is that I will care and protect. If they tell me to get lost, my sincere love would have me do just that.

By the way, love doesn't get pricier and there isn't a more risky investment than a kid.

[Timshel]

How are you generally, in terms of getting into disagreements or arguments with women? Is it something you would want to avoid if at all possible? Would you be likely to admire/like/love a woman less if she argued or disagreed with you at times? I'm just wondering about this "it was a great relationship because we never argued" thing. It might be that the definition of a great relationship is more like "when we come into conflict, we work it out pretty well..and the occasional conflict has helped us to know and understand eachother a lot better."

 

Great post Taramere, apology for the the edit. This is a really good paragraph.

[salparadise]

How are you generally, in terms of getting into disagreements or arguments with women? Is it something you would want to avoid if at all possible? Would you be likely to admire/like/love a woman less if she argued or disagreed with you at times? I'm just wondering about this "it was a great relationship because we never argued" thing. It might be that the definition of a great relationship is more like "when we come into conflict, we work it out pretty well..and the occasional conflict has helped us to know and understand eachother a lot better."

 

This is a great post, and I appreciate it very much. I've had plenty of arguments with women, so I'm pretty sure that I'm not seriously conflict avoidant. However, I don't like to argue and I will do my best to meet expectations (within reason) and to make peace when one does arise. If I can concede something small then I'll do it. If I need to validate a different perspective I will -- but I do that anyway when discussing things where we diverge.

 

We had talked before about our unusual harmony and I jokingly asked her if we should manufacture something to be upset about so we can practice resolving things in a healthy way. I think we laughed, hugged and had sex again. I really did consider the lack of conflict a wonderful thing.

 

On a more serious note, I commented to her that I felt we could resolve any differences because we're both high in agreeableness and conscientiousness. She said she wasn't so sure because real life had not challenged us yet. I took the hint that there was a side of her that I had not seen. We often did "check-ins" where we'd ask if there was anything we needed to discuss, anything the other was wanting/needing, anything sexually that either of us wanted, etc. I mean this was the nature of it –– damn near ideal. I assumed it was because she smart as a whip, PhD in psych, licensed psychotherapist (although not currently practicing - she was director of a doctoral program at an APA accredited university). So all of the signs indicated to me that this was healthy because she was smart and healthy, educated, communicative and very agreeable. It makes sense, right? And because, of course, I am a frikin dreamboat of a man and all I need is the right woman! I bought into it completely. We talked about spending the rest of our lives together and I was thinking about buying a ring this year. Yea, I know.

 

I had thoughts at times that it was maybe too easy, but they were quickly dismissed as negativity and I said to myself, don't look that gift horse in the mouth, Sal. This is what you've been waiting for your whole phukking life, don't doubt because it's too easy! That's nuts!

 

I knew she had a few issues, but nothing monumental in my estimation. I was willing to accept her as is. She explained to me that she's a highly sensitive person, she takes Zoloft, she's in therapy herself, she gets wrung out with anxiety sometimes. Last spring she was overcome with anxiety because of something fairly minor that she neglected. She was afraid that she'd be called out and criticized. I comforted her and reassured her –– so what if you made one small mistake, no big deal. She worried about losing her job and I told her that won't happen because this is small potatoes, and besides you're tenured. When time came, it was not even mentioned. I mean she was a nervous wreck for a few weeks. Perfectionism, insecurity, self criticism and maybe even self loathing for not being perfect. But she was perfect enough for me! As I said in a previous post, I wanted it more than I was afraid of it.

 

I mean seriously, who would think... "I need to end this relationship because it's too good to be true?" That would be dysfunctional thinking, wouldn't you say?

Edited February 12, 2017 by salparadise

[elaine567]

I mean seriously, who would think... "I need to end this relationship because it's too good to be true?" That would be dysfunctional thinking, wouldn't you say?

 

Was it a commitment thing perhaps?

Everything perfect and gearing up for "the ring" and she bolted maybe?

[salparadise]

Was it a commitment thing perhaps?

Everything perfect and gearing up for "the ring" and she bolted maybe?

 

No. I hadn't given any hints that I was thinking about that. We had talked about spending our lives together, but in a general sort of way. We did talk about the timetable... she has two kids in HS and she said she'd like to get the first one graduated first –– two years. So I was thinking I might give her a ring in one year, have a year long engagement. But those were only thoughts in my head, not anything we discussed. But what we were on the same page about was that ti was a serious relationship, we both wanted a wonderful life partner, and we loved each other deeply. Obviously it was a lie. She used me for entertainment and sex and then discarded without conscience.

[elaine567]

No. I hadn't given any hints that I was thinking about that. We had talked about spending our lives together, but in a general sort of way. We did talk about the timetable... she has two kids in HS and she said she'd like to get the first one graduated first –– two years. So I was thinking I might give her a ring in one year, have a year long engagement. But those were only thoughts in my head, not anything we discussed. But what we were on the same page about was that ti was a serious relationship, we both wanted a wonderful life partner, and we loved each other deeply. Obviously it was a lie. She used me for entertainment and sex and then discarded without conscience.

~

How did you get on with her kids?

[SevenCity]

No. I hadn't given any hints that I was thinking about that. We had talked about spending our lives together, but in a general sort of way. We did talk about the timetable... she has two kids in HS and she said she'd like to get the first one graduated first –– two years. So I was thinking I might give her a ring in one year, have a year long engagement. But those were only thoughts in my head, not anything we discussed. But what we were on the same page about was that ti was a serious relationship, we both wanted a wonderful life partner, and we loved each other deeply. Obviously it was a lie. She used me for entertainment and sex and then discarded without conscience.

 

The unfortunate reality is sometimes you can do everything right and it still goes to S@@t.

 

It's hard to grow from situations like this. All it teaches you is not to trust.

[salparadise]

~

How did you get on with her kids?

 

 

Okay. Not that much interaction. They made themselves scarce mostly when I was around, which wasn't all that often. But they knew we were dating and that she was seeing me often. Their dad had them every other weekend and Wednesdays. I'd say it was okay, not a factor.

[salparadise]

The unfortunate reality is sometimes you can do everything right and it still goes to S@@t.

 

It's hard to grow from situations like this. All it teaches you is not to trust.

 

Yup. How does one open his heart and commit to the next person after this? It's bullsh*t. Even if it had to end, why be so uncaring and disrespectful to the person you've spent the last year and a half with, who's been loyal and shared all of that emotion with? It doesn't compute. Cold hearted and sadistic.

[GoldSparkz]

Very strange behaviour...sounds like you dodged a bullet. Although I do agree with others who mentioned that she was getting ready to walk away long before this happened and maybe you were too in love to see the warning signs. This episode was a trigger/excuse for her to walk away. After 17 months, the least she could do is provide you with a decent explanation.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't know how you can be restrained enough not to try and ask for an explanation (despite her saying "it's final" just like that). I would probably text her something like "I really don't beleive this incident was the only reason for ending a happy 17 months long relationship. I am confused as to what really happened. I would appreciate an explanation so that I can move forward with peace".

 

Maybe not that wording but something along those lines. The weird way it ended would probably make me uneasy for years to come.

[Goodguy05]

I'm gonna take a good guess and say she's probably been thinking about ending it for a while for watever reason think hard because u probably know the answer in ur gut and has used this as an excuse to pull the trigger. Can I ask is she young? People don't just break up over something so superficial it's usually a build up of something resentment feeling they can do better IL take a guess as u mentioned she's pretty got a PhD it could be she feels like she can do better wich is really stupid if u ask me because it should be more about the connection u both share and not status. Regardless sorry to hear i been going thru heartache myself for a cpl mths so I can definatly empathise. Wat to do im not sure try and talk and see if u can and if she won't respect her wishes after uve tried all u can respect her wishes. Good luck bro

[salparadise]

Although I do agree with others who mentioned that she was getting ready to walk away long before this happened

 

I'm gonna take a good guess and say she's probably been thinking about ending it for a while for watever reason think hard because u probably know the answer in ur gut and has used this as an excuse to pull the trigger.

 

These guesses/assumptions are rational and make sense viewing from the micro level. And perhaps there were cues that I missed, I don't know. But if that were true then she did a good job of covering up her motives. There was no distancing in terms of showing affection or saying ILU often and easily.

 

What is apparent and probably undeniable is that she did not value the relationship as much or have the same strong attachment as I did... or else she wouldn't have been able to cut the cord that quickly and easily. As I said before, based on superficial criteria I was probably out of my league. Yea, I'm sure she can find someone younger, smarter, wealthier, better looking. But we had this wavelength resonance that's really hard to find, and our affirmations to each other always acknowledged this. And neither of us are much about the superficial criteria... unless she's a lot more influenced by it than she's willing to admit to me or herself.

 

And this gets to that thing that's so nagging... the divergence between presentation and what it takes to make logical sense of it. If the sky is blue then x-y-z must also be true, vs. blue is merely a perception and has no relationship to x-y-z. In other words, the rational explanations don't seem satisfactory. There's more to it.

[elaine567]

There is the assumption that because she cut it off swiftly and cleanly that she doesn't care.

Plenty people go NC, then date and seemingly get on with their lives, but are hurt for years afterwards.

We always also assume that those who make a song and dance about how much they hurt, care more that those who say nothing.

I don't believe that is true, some are just highly emotional whilst others are better at coping on the surface but that doesn't mean they do not feel and hurt just as much.

Others hide their grief away and present an "Oh so jolly" exterior, but they cry alone or inside.

[JuneL]

Has your ex-girlfriend dated other guys after her divorce?

[Furious]

The signs were there, the compartmentalization and separation of your relationship from her children, friends and family members. The compartment you resided in was good but overall she kept her life in separate boxes.

 

The illusion of intimacy was the red flag. She also seemed to over react to problems and obviously has anxiety issues, the example you gave was her anxiety of the possibility of being fired from her job and not trusting her own judgement. I think it's more about she needs control and order.

 

The harsh way she broke up with you also emphasizes that a compartment is easily closed and how easy it is to shut that down without disturbing her other compartments. She has her children in one compartment, her career in another and her family members in another compartment. There is no flow between all aspects of her life, each compartment has a boundary.

 

You were happy in your relationship and missed the red flags. She panicked, she looked for an out and it was nothing you did wrong.

 

In hindsight you'll see the pattern of her keeping you close and yet at arms length.

 

It's a tired cliche but actions speak louder than words. She showed you who she really is with her actions.

 

Unfortunately she hurt you and you feel utterly rejected and at fault. That was her subconscious intention, this behaviour of discarding you with justification out of the blue is indicative of someone who is passive aggressive.

 

People like this know they are not being real, life is a stage, and the irony deep down is they end up resenting the person they are fooling. It's a catch 22. A part of them resents the person who trusts them, they must not be too bright to not see through their act. Weird stuff and and absolutely hurtful to the person they are stringing along.

 

You dodged a bullet, on paper it was good and seemed to have potential. She was not for you, thankfully in an odd way she did you favor.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Furious