The post that I hoped I'd never have to write.

[SevenCity]

I don't agree. She owes him an explanation. She doesn't owe it to him to give him another chance or continue contact but she owes him an explanation of why she broke up and a little bit of humanly care. He is a human being and this is called "relationship accountability".

 

Don't get me wrong, I think she is an awful excuse for a human being for handling things the way she did.

 

That said, she owes nothing. There is no contract, no obligation. The minute she said it was over she has no further responsibilities as the relationship has been dissolved.

 

Is it right? Moral? No. But just because Sal wants an explanation in no way does it mean she has a duty to give him one.

 

I too had wish my ex gave me a reason. But as time went on I realized she is a free human being to do or not do as she chooses. Just because I couldn't deal with the open endedness doesn't mean I deserve closure from her.

 

I wouldn't treat a woman like this. I even officially broke things off with the selfish psycho I was dating. But that is how I operate. I can't expect that from another.

 

Closure comes from within. Nothing she can say or do will make him feel better anyway. He would feel worse as her reasons would not be sufficient in is eyes.

[Sweetfish]

You're only seeing it from his side of the story, which likely is being downplayed. Not saying he's intentionally misrepresenting the story but I'm sure there was a lot more that happened and that was said and she probably was the target of some of this anger. The woman seems highly intelligent and put together and she probably has low tolerance for emotional outbursts and abuse.

 

You're saying there is no way in hell a woman would bail in order to make sense of the situation and make yourselves feel better. The reality is just because you see stories of weak willed people all around love shack dealing with all types of emotional abuse, neglect and disrespect doesn't mean there aren't people with zero tolerance for it. I've been with someone for 3 years and if she ever recklessly put us in a situation only to make it worse by lashing out at people trying to help her, I'd drop her ass in a new york minute too.

 

And I KNOW she'd do the same thing too.

 

Intelligence and emotional IQ are two different animals. Many intelligent people can be abused or abusers.

 

Welcome to society and conditoning and the distortion of what is or can be.

 

Your telling me your friend would dump a man.. over a parking incident..?? More power to her...

 

People who are the polar opposite of your define of weak and fraile can not intergrate into a relationship ever...

 

True love requires empathy, hard work, and the ability to except bad and good (healthy anger, sadness, jealousy fear) if you cannot do this... zero tolerance...

 

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A LONG TERM RELATION.

 

The idea of a perfect uptopia man or women, family or relationship..

 

Not gonna happen

[Popsicle]

Don't get me wrong, I think she is an awful excuse for a human being for handling things the way she did.

 

That said, she owes nothing. There is no contract, no obligation. The minute she said it was over she has no further responsibilities as the relationship has been dissolved.

 

Is it right? Moral? No. But just because Sal wants an explanation in no way does it mean she has a duty to give him one.

 

I too had wish my ex gave me a reason. But as time went on I realized she is a free human being to do or not do as she chooses. Just because I couldn't deal with the open endedness doesn't mean I deserve closure from her.

 

I wouldn't treat a woman like this. I even officially broke things off with the selfish psycho I was dating. But that is how I operate. I can't expect that from another.

 

Closure comes from within. Nothing she can say or do will make him feel better anyway. He would feel worse as her reasons would not be sufficient in is eyes.

 

Morality is not legislated it's taught and she needs a lesson.

[SevenCity]

Morality is not legislated it's taught and she needs a lesson.

 

She will only learn if circumstances allow it. Nothing Sal can do to teach her.

[thefooloftheyear]

Do people really want the same old....."its not you, it's me" garbage??? or.." we aren't on the same page"....

 

Forget it...

 

Preserve your dignity and don't give them that satisfaction..Just move on, and I am not saying its easy, btw..

 

While I can't say for sure, If she quickly put her mug on OLD, then she was cashed out long ago, IMO..probably was the type that wont go from one to another until they have the other in place...just this time she needed a push..

 

I'd love to know the amount of people that think its so horrible that she didn't give him some kind of closure or hand holding/hug are the same one's that actively seek "taken" people for relationships(OW/OM) or some other questionable stuff.

 

TFY

[Popsicle]

She will only learn if circumstances allow it. Nothing Sal can do to teach her.

 

I think he should tell her that it was wrong the way she left without an explanation and then be done with it. The rest is on her.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think he should tell her that it was wrong the way she left without an explanation and then be done with it. The rest is on her.

 

 

She doesn't care and he'll look like a whiny jackass...

 

TFY

[SevenCity]

She doesn't care and he'll look like a whiny jackass...

 

TFY

 

Yep. Not only will it fall on def ears it will make him look like a cry baby.

[Notarobot]

Intelligence and emotional IQ are two different animals. Many intelligent people can be abused or abusers.

 

Welcome to society and conditoning and the distortion of what is or can be.

 

Your telling me your friend would dump a man.. over a parking incident..?? More power to her...

 

People who are the polar opposite of your define of weak and fraile can not intergrate into a relationship ever...

 

True love requires empathy, hard work, and the ability to except bad and good (healthy anger, sadness, jealousy fear) if you cannot do this... zero tolerance...

 

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A LONG TERM RELATION.

 

The idea of a perfect uptopia man or women, family or relationship..

 

Not gonna happen

 

No need play stupid to the situation, this wasn't a parking incident that made the gf run away. True love requires self control, accountability, reasoning, emotional intelligence. Childish behavior and emotional breakdowns over parking incidents aren't conducive to long term relationships. You're right many intelligent people can be abusers. Guess who was the abuser in this situation...

 

I wouldn't want my kids around a man who lashes out at people because he's annoyed by his own irresponsible behavior.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Notarobot

[Sweetfish]

No need play stupid to the situation, this wasn't a parking incident that made the gf run away. True love requires self control, accountability, reasoning, emotional intelligence. Childish behavior and emotional breakdowns over parking incidents aren't conducive to long term relationships. You're right many intelligent people can be abusers. Guess who was the abuser in this situation...

 

I wouldn't want my kids around a man who lashes out at people because he's annoyed by his own irresponsible behavior.

 

Yes... THE MAN... because its always the man..

 

The kids are grown kids arent they?

 

So now you want to use that and that she is a mother to justify her actions. The O.P. was right not to give out his number to the tow truck guy. He was upset at the situation. You've never been angry or upset before?

 

So what? You move on.. he didnt get into a fist fight.. its not like he went on a yelling match. He got upset and he got over it... like any other adult.

 

So whats safe for her kids is to start looking for strangers on the internet... just after tossing someone in the dumpster..

 

Who said the O.P. had an emotional breakdown??

 

Your creating in your own imagine of a violent night and the victimized mother took her kids and ran to safety.

 

Please....

[SevenCity]

No need play stupid to the situation, this wasn't a parking incident that made the gf run away. True love requires self control, accountability, reasoning, emotional intelligence. Childish behavior and emotional breakdowns over parking incidents aren't conducive to long term relationships. You're right many intelligent people can be abusers. Guess who was the abuser in this situation...

 

I wouldn't want my kids around a man who lashes out at people because he's annoyed by his own irresponsible behavior.

 

What the OP said could be described as mildly annoyed. It was far from an emotional breakdown.

 

And now he's abusive because he was annoyed? Come on...

[elaine567]

The kids are grown kids arent they?

 

The kids are both in high school, so are young and impressionable.

 

It is all very well minimising the incident but most people are judged by those they hang out with, and I guess 50 yo women with high paid careers who are mothers and deem themselves I guess pillars of the community and decent citizens, have a low tolerance for and are not willing to be judged over what they deem "egregious" behaviour by the men they are dating.

We can all tut and shake our heads, but we weren't there.

SHE didn't like it one bit, SHE didn't like the side of Sal she saw, SHE didn't tolerate it; end of relationship.

It was obviously a deal-breaker FOR her.

 

I guess there may have been other factors in play, but we cannot really discount the incident totally as we all have our own deal-breakers.

Others may pooh pooh the deal-breakers of others, but to that person it is very serious matter and often non-negotiable too, as in this case.

 

She was exposed to a side of Sal she didn't like, so she bailed..

Being married to a narcissistic ex, I guess her radar is very sensitive to anything that is even mildly inappropriate.

She will not want to go through that experience again, hence she exhibits zero tolerance.

[Onnanoko]

No need play stupid to the situation, this wasn't a parking incident that made the gf run away. True love requires self control, accountability, reasoning, emotional intelligence. Childish behavior and emotional breakdowns over parking incidents aren't conducive to long term relationships. You're right many intelligent people can be abusers. Guess who was the abuser in this situation...

 

I wouldn't want my kids around a man who lashes out at people because he's annoyed by his own irresponsible behavior.

 

By reading your posts, it seems to me that you are attempting to place blame of the OP's break up on him. I do think that at this time, the OP needs to read words of encouragement, empathy and understanding of what he has been put through by his ex girlfriend.

 

Regardless of how much you think the OP is at fault for his ex girlfriend breaking up with him via a text message with no explanation as to why she is walking away from a relationship that has lasted almost a year and a half, the truth is, SHE is the one who is at fault. Mature adults communicate with each other when something is troubling them about the relationship, they do not hold in their feelings until they fester and turn into resentment and bitterness.

 

This woman has never communicated with the OP about the possibility of her wanting to end the relationship. His human moment of emotion the night his car was towed was not the reason this woman ended their relationship. It is as others on here have been saying, she has been planning this for a time and simply used that fateful evening as an excuse to break up with him and disappear.

 

I feel that your words are harsh and accusatory towards the OP and are not helpful to him in any way at this time. You may write as many negative posts to the OP as you wish, however I do hope he is not reading them and taking any of them to heart.

[thefooloftheyear]

The kids are both in high school, so are young and impressionable.

 

It is all very well minimising the incident but most people are judged by those they hang out with, and I guess 50 yo women with high paid careers who are mothers and deem themselves I guess pillars of the community and decent citizens, have a low tolerance for and are not willing to be judged over what they deem "egregious" behaviour by the men they are dating.

We can all tut and shake our heads, but we weren't there.

SHE didn't like it one bit, SHE didn't like the side of Sal she saw, SHE didn't tolerate it; end of relationship.

It was obviously a deal-breaker FOR her.

 

I guess there may have been other factors in play, but we cannot really discount the incident totally as we all have our own deal-breakers.

Others may pooh pooh the deal-breakers of others, but to that person it is very serious matter and often non-negotiable too, as in this case.

 

She was exposed to a side of Sal she didn't like, so she bailed..

Being married to a narcissistic ex, I guess her radar is very sensitive to anything that is even mildly inappropriate.

She will not want to go through that experience again, hence she exhibits zero tolerance.

 

While I agree that we only know what we know....

 

....but no one who truly cares for another person is going to dump them over situational anger....If they do, it's more of an issue with general weakness and intolerance on their part...At that point I would have written my own mother decades ago....

 

As long as it's not personal(which if the story is accurate, then it would certainly apply). then I can't see how that is something that would qualify as a deal breaker...but I guess it takes all types...

 

She sounds like a weakling...I like strong women that don't get rattled easily, so this type of thing is completely out of left field..I'm sure she is probably looking more for a feckless kind of guy that can't ever express himself.....There are plenty of those out there, so I guess she'll be fine..

 

TFY

Edited February 15, 2017 by thefooloftheyear

[anna121]

I feel bad for OP. That was a nasty way to break up with someone and I understand how much it hurts.

 

I find it curious, though, the repeated references to her "feminism" and "gender issues". Was her feminism off-putting?

 

I kind of doubt that "feminism" was a contributing factor to her decision to break things off unless it was an underlying source of tension throughout the rel-ship. I will say, as someone who identifies as feminist , that if I knew that my SO felt weird about that, it might make it difficult for me to trust him. As far as my H is concerned, for example, my feminism is a total non-issue. He doesn't need to BE feminist, but he does need to not be disturbed by it, or we would quickly have a problem.

 

Anyway, I really am sorry that this happened. But this point is just something that has struck me while reading the thread.

[elaine567]

Sorry, but no one who truly cares for another person is going to dump them over situational anger....If they do, it's more of an issue with general weakness and intolerance on their part...

 

As long as it's not personal(which if the story is accurate, then it would certainly apply). then I can't see how that is something that would qualify as a deal breaker...but I guess it takes all types...

 

She sounds like a weakling...I like strong women that don't get rattled easily, so this type of thing is completely out of left field..

 

TFY

 

OK but we are talking about a woman who has been in a relationship with an narcissist. She will be vulnerable, she will see red flags that other women may ignore.

If you had spent years being with an abuser you sure as hell wouldn't tolerate any new person that showed you even a glimpse of that same behaviour.

[Sweetfish]

OK but we are talking about a woman who has been in a relationship with an narcissist. She will be vulnerable, she will see red flags that other women may ignore.

If you had spent years being with an abuser you sure as hell wouldn't tolerate any new person that showed you even a glimpse of that same behaviour.

 

 

The women is the narcissist.

 

That is what your failing to see.

 

And being a mother, a women, a victim is not an excuse.

 

And everyone is slowly seeing that im right...

 

She lacks empathy and she manipulated him..

 

And as a mother she is not making an impression sailing from guy to guy dumping them on a dime. Mother doesnt equal saint.

[salparadise]

I kind of doubt that "feminism" was a contributing factor to her decision to break things off unless it was an underlying source of tension throughout the rel-ship. I will say, as someone who identifies as feminist , that if I knew that my SO felt weird about that, it might make it difficult for me to trust him.

 

No, there were not any issues surrounding this. I am a feminist too, although perhaps not aligned with the more radical aspects.

 

How it relates here is what you might say is an underlying resentment of men, particularly "phukking white men" as she once said (although not aimed at me directly). It's the assumption that the world's problems are caused by men perpetuating a system designed to control and subjugate women, that men have this privileged mentality and are therefore inherently contemptible. It's a generalized men-are-the-enemy attitude, and I think *could be* part of why she feels entitled to [what I consider] abusive behavior with respect to the breakup. It's like she's getting me back for being one of those contemptible beings. But these were never actually issues in the relationship itself.

 

It's not unlike the way Notarobot ignores the information (no objectivity whatsoever) and attempts to rewrite the narrative, making the male the culprit, with underlying gender bias as the likely motive.

Edited February 15, 2017 by salparadise

[marky00]

 

The reality is just because you see stories of weak willed people all around love shack dealing with all types of emotional abuse, neglect and disrespect doesn't mean there aren't people with zero tolerance for it.

 

 

LOL really?

 

 

What is your agenda here?

 

 

Time to get off your soap box and the angry pills. Grow up.

[Timshel]

The Caucasian, U.S. wasp, phd woman....lol, the epitome of compassion and understanding for all persons who are not. :/

 

Sal, you are human and so is she. It doesn't matter in the end her imperfections except to say that they are entirely unsuitable to yourself.

[elaine567]

The women is the narcissist.

That is what your failing to see.

 

There is no evidence to say that this woman was a narcissist, covert or otherwise.

This, by Sal's account was not an abusive relationship at all.

 

Many people with all sorts of personalities will end a relationship dead with little communication as to why.

 

Some reasons why people do this, I am sure there are many more.

 

1. They have nothing left to say, they are just done
   
2. They do not want to be "persuaded" to get back into a relationship they see as finished. They do not want to weaken and they know they would, if they had contact with the person they just broke up with.
   
3. They do not want to give out any false hope, so they drop off the radar completely.
   
4. They are very upset so do not want to talk about it or show how upset they really are, but they know they made the right decision to break up.
   
5. They want to avoid any conflict with and/or see any upset shown by the person they just split up with.
   
6. They are so angry and annoyed with the other person that they want nothing more to do with them.
   

 

It is not an uncommon scenario.

[Taramere]

No need play stupid to the situation, this wasn't a parking incident that made the gf run away. True love requires self control, accountability, reasoning, emotional intelligence. Childish behavior and emotional breakdowns over parking incidents aren't conducive to long term relationships. You're right many intelligent people can be abusers. Guess who was the abuser in this situation...

 

I wouldn't want my kids around a man who lashes out at people because he's annoyed by his own irresponsible behavior.

 

I'm curious. You think Sal had an "emotional breakdown". Is that based on what he describes here

 

I gave some guy a huge amount of money to get my car back. He asked for my phone number and I said, "you've got my money, you don't need a phone number." He looked at her and she gave him her number. We went back to my place. Few words were spoken on the way back. When we got inside she said she was angry with me for how I behaved. She thought it was egregious.

 

or are you taking the view that there was more to it than he describes? If it went exactly as he described, in his girlfriend's shoes I would probably be embarrassed about him telling the guy "you don't need my number". Asking "can I just check what you need my number for?" would be a better, more neutral response. So yeah, I'd probably think he could have handled it better - but it's hardly the end of the world, and to define what Sal describes as "an emotional breakdown" is ludicrous.

 

In fact, I'd be pretty worried about somebody who would define the behaviour outlined in the above quote as "an emotional breakdown". There are various ways in which one person can abuse another. Using a term like "emotional breakdown" for the kind of "episode of testiness and irritation" Sal describes sounds very much, to me, like the sort of thing an abusive individual would say in an effort to confuse another person or make them doubt themselves.

 

I accept that, as Elaine says, sometimes when people have been abused themselves they might have zero tolerance for behaviour that other people might be a bit embarrassed by but otherwise see as no big deal. However, taking an incident such as the one Sal has described and defining it as an "emotional breakdown" goes well beyond that. It suggests to me that either you don't have any sort of filter to help you differentiate between "a bit testy " and "abusive and out of control".

 

Or, you know very well that the behaviour described is nothing like an emotional breakdown, but decided that you'd go ahead and lash out at somebody who is going through a difficult time and is therefore going to be vulnerable.

[Trustyourgut]

Sal,

 

I am about to say something that you may not like, and that other posters may not agree with. Please know that I am trying to help you and not hurt you.

 

Like your girlfriend, I am an infj female, a highly sensitive person, and a psychotherapist. I also have a trauma history. I hope I can give you insight into why your girlfriend acted the way she did.

 

You don't remember me, but you and I had got into an argument on this forum years ago. I felt like you said hurtful things to me. You didn't mean to hurt me, but the impact of your words brought up too many memories of my past abuse. Something about the way you communicated to me reminded me of my abuser. However you're feeling now is exactly how I felt years ago, when you said things that I didn't like.

 

I am bringing up this situation, because I have a gut feeling that your girlfriend may have felt the way how I felt. She may have been triggered or put off by something you said. Even though you may have been a wonderful boyfriend, those little things can make an INFJ and an HSP woman want to flee. She may have started to feel unsafe for whatever reason. As a survivor of trauma and a therapist, we need to be in an emotionally safe situation. I value people with polite manners and consideration. If someone starts to violate that core value, I can't be around that person. Abrasiveness, rude comments, yelling, and a cold attitude reminds me too much of my abusers. When people are abused, they want to be cautious with red flags and not have to put up with bad behavior again. Simply removing themselves from the situation helps a survivor feel safe. Your ex may have been having similar thoughts. She was angry/frustrated and decided that it was in her best interest to walk away. You may find this behavior cold, but she may have felt like it was the best thing to do.

 

I do believe she did like you when she first started dating you. We infj women don't use people for sex. We are picky and enter relationships with people we like. We will mainly leave, if someone crossed the line. Google up the infj door slam.

 

I don't believe your ex is a narcissist. She most likely was an empathic and sensitive person, who felt like she needed to self-preserve. Sensitive people can shut down, lash out or not give you a full explanation when they are fatigued and burnt out. It sounds like your ex also has a lot of thoughts on her mind that she can't communicate fully to you. I find myself freezing in difficult situations too.

 

Since we INFJ's are rare, it's common for people to misjudge us. If you post this in an infj forum, you would get very different responses.

 

I know you and other posters may feel upset at me for saying this, and you may even argue with me.

 

But, I feel like you should know this. Maybe down the line, my post will make some sense to you. I can empathize with how hurt you feel, but let's just say I also can empathize with what your ex is feeling too. I can't shake off that nagging feeling that maybe she saw you as being insensitive.

 

I hope you heal and find someone better suited for you

Edited February 15, 2017 by Trustyourgut

[Frozensushi]

You may find this behavior cold, but she may have felt like it was the best thing to do.

 

Because it was cold? Not to mention selfish.

 

I feel there's a double standard here. You say he was being insensitive, yet it's okay for her to act the same because of her past.

 

You are making excuses for bad behavior. Is accountability for one's own actions not relevant? I'm sympathetic to people who have been abused, but this does not give them license to treat people like sh**.

[salparadise]

Sal,

 

I am about to say something that you may not like, and that other posters may not agree with. Please know that I am trying to help you and not hurt you.

 

Like your girlfriend, I am an infj female, a highly sensitive person, and a psychotherapist. I also have a trauma history. I hope I can give you insight into why your girlfriend acted the way she did.

 

 

Trustyourguy, I appreciate the thoughtful post and your effort to maybe explain how it might feel from the perspective of someone very similar. I have no idea what I may have said to you years ago that triggered your issues, but you have my sincere apologies even though it was probably unintentional.

 

It is interesting that you and she share these characteristics, and as such I am definitely interested in your perspective. Much of what you wrote does seem to fit in terms of the triggering and overreaction.

 

However, much of it is based on the presumption of having been the victim of past abuse. I don't accept that she is significantly traumatized or even that she is a victim. Yes, I know that if she was married to a narcissist there would've automatically been some even if it wasn't open conflict. I don't take for granted that her ex-h was a narcissist either. I didn't hear any stories of that nature at all. I think she's more likely assigning the label now to account for the failure of the marriage and the fact that he doesn't cater to her every whim as a coparent after the divorce. Her 'diagnosis' is based on her belief that he does what he does to maintain the appearance of an upstanding guy while actually being aloof and not all that dedicated to the kids. His dealings with her are never conflictual in nature and he accommodates what she asks of him nearly always. I don't really know what the dynamic was in that marriage, except that she says sex was infrequent, not very good, and they became emotionally distant.

 

Triggered? Yes, I think it's apparent that something flipped a switch in her brain. She went from loving and [apparently] devoted to the antithesis of that in an instant. Are you saying that that's just what a guy should expect and accept because of her being INFJ/HSP and a therapist? A free pass to treat her intimate partner of a year and a half with utmost disdain, disrespect, and apparently with a sadistic element as punishment for not being or behaving precisely as she models the ideal in her own imagination?

 

She did without a doubt take these events not at face value, but turned them into something egregious that to her indicates some huge character flaw that she simply cannot abide. It wasn't like that at all. No voices were ever raised, no arguments ensued, no name were called. It was merely a low level expression of the frustration of the moment. It wasn't even between she and I. I'm not trying to defend or justify my behavior, just saying that it wasn't egregious by any means... but she turned it into something like that, and that's her justification for behaving as she has, and she feels completely entitled and justified to treat me as a non-person now. There is something really wrong with that, and being INFJ/HSP/therapist doesn't even come close to justifying it.

 

I did treat her well always. Never was there a harsh word between us. I never let her down on anything I promised. I cooked her meals twice to four times a week, made sure her favorite chocolates and wine were always on hand, made sure the bed had clean sheets every time she stayed over, I listened and affirmed and did everything I could think of to make her feel special and cared for. We affirmed our special connection every time we were together. We were both 'all in' and I knew it was the chance of a lifetime, and honored her and the relationship as such.

 

Even if it had to end, you'd think that would at least earn me the dignity of a conversation, wouldn't you? Or does the expectation of common courtesy and respect not apply because she has the 'special person' exemption? Caring and empathetic person are her outward identity but something is amiss when it applies to everyone except the person with whom you've shared such a special bond for a year and a half. In this situation, she's entitled and justified?

 

It simply doesn't add up. It's a kind of betrayal that goes beyond deciding that she needed to end the relationship and doing so compassionately and honorably. All I'm left with is the feeling that it wasn't ever real to begin with. All an act, and all of that specialness and tenderness were like a veneer over particle board. I want to believe that what we had was significant and meaningful, but she is denying me that.

 

I think there is a huge amount of anger under that polite, caring, affirming exterior, that she has imagined unspeakable evil, that she feels entitled and justified and that basically the person she pretended to be is a false-self, not her true self... or else her conscience wouldn't abide such treatment.

 

Like I mentioned before, as we were growing in our relationship I expressed my anxiety due to becoming vulnerable. She asked me why. I said, well, obviously it's anxiety producing to give someone the power to destroy you. She comforted, "it's okay, you don't need to worry about that." But now thinking back on it, she didn't really express similar feelings. Could it be that she didn't have them because she wasn't actually allowing herself to become vulnerable? Does she even have the capacity. All I'm left with is a bunch of words and questions that don't reconcile.

 

I look forward to hearing your response, and I hope I haven't said anything to upset you.

Edited February 15, 2017 by salparadise