The post that I hoped I'd never have to write.

[elaine567]

As a therapist, you'd think she'd witness pretty strong emotion from clients from time to time. Maybe even inappropriate commentary or outbursts of anger. Anybody who works with people and their problems faces that, and has to learn strategies for managing it. Has to remain calm in the face of anger, while being alert to non verbal signs that the angry person is escalating towards violence etc.

Yes I am sure she deals with all sorts, but she doesn't have to date these people.

Seeing behaviour she felt was "egregious" in a person she was invested in is a different thing all together.

She may manage and tolerate bad behaviour in clients, but she doesn't have to live with them day in day out, she is not invested, she doesn't have to trust them, she doesn't have to let her kids be around them...

[Taramere]

Yes I am sure she deals with all sorts, but she doesn't have to date these people.

Seeing behaviour she felt was "egregious" in a person she was invested in is a different thing all together.

She may manage and tolerate bad behaviour in clients, but she doesn't have to live with them day in day out, she is not invested, she doesn't have to trust them, she doesn't have to let her kids be around them...

 

No of course. There are boundaries between the professional and private. But I think that a good therapist is going to have certain traits that certainly will be present in both their professional and their private life.

 

10 Qualities of an Effective Clinical Psychologist ? Master of Clinical Psychology

 

Not that a therapist would want to treat friends or lovers as clients, but some of the more people-orientated traits listed above (some - not, for instance, the unconditional support part...unconditionally supporting and standing by a partner, no matter how bad their behaviour was wouldn't be healthy) are related to the kind of emotional intelligence that helps people to form better personal relationships. That, really, anybody seeking to improve their personal relationships could probably aspire to. Ending the relationship might have been the right thing for Sal's ex to do, for any number of reasons we don't know about...but it seems odd that a therapist would just walk away from a 17 month relationship without demonstrating any curiosity as to why her partner behaved in a way she found egregious.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Taramere

[Sweetfish]

I agree that the manner in which she exited the relationship was callous and cold, and totally abnormal but I don't really understand what gender stuff has to do with it? Both men and women leave relationships all the time, and both get equal blame in a breakup. I have no problem whatsoever accepting my part of the blame in the demise of my own relationship, and he was gallant and honest enough to recognise that he may have pushed me a little to far, too soon out of my comfort zone. There was no acrimony, he was classy enough not to blame me for all of it or think that because I'm a woman I'm getting away with blue murder. That's just silly.

 

How do we know that Sal's ex is a narcissist? Was her exit premeditated?

Did I miss something?

 

Emily.

 

1. its been discussed many times by other members, a female safety takes precedence.

 

2. Its been noted that she is a mother so therefore her actions are valid or "understandable"

 

3. men and women leave equally? The USA divorce statistics says other wise? So does that for Australia.

 

The Other Man / Woman - LoveShack.org Community Forums

 

majority of the thread starters are female

 

Breaks and Breaking Up - LoveShack.org Community Forums

 

and oh look majority of the thread starters are male

 

I mean really?

 

Emily, you may be an exception.. But an exception doesn't equal the majority. To say that men and women equally treat each other the same is a math miracle.

 

There was a thread here. The female poster said her husband told the her he didn't love her anymore. (he checked out)The female poster in the past had cheated on him before and the guy had (a childhood trauma were his mom cheated on the father and was devastated)

 

No one knows his side... complete ghost

 

Did he get a P**** pass? Nope. Was he given the benefit of the doubt. Nope. Was it premeditated probably not. It was 25 pages of hugs and kisses. VERY rarely anyone said hey. this chick cheated on him and he lived with that issue for years in the marriage. The guy was railed!

 

No one likes to hear the truth point blank.

 

Was her exit premeditated? No. I don't think she had an intention to leave... her condition made her leave

 

 

Personality disorder a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind, typically manifest by the time one reaches adolescence and causing long-term difficulties in personal relationships or in functioning in society.

 

This is a pretty clear-cut definition of what were seeing here.

[Robert]

Please get back on topic. Notarobot was a troll and has been banned. ~6

[PrettyEmily77]

Was her exit premeditated? No. I don't think she had an intention to leave... her condition made her leave

 

 

Diagnosing complete strangers online based on next to nothing is my personal bug bear so I won't join in in delving into this woman's character or how her profession somehow makes her immune to expressing emotional vulnerability herself.

 

Either she over-reacted or she kept things bottled up or she realised she couldn't pursue a relationship for her own, probably (why not?) perfectly legitimate, reasons - either way, however abnormal, ghosting a relationship with no previous signs of issues doesn't give sufficient clues as to her mental or emotional state of mind.

[Taramere]

Diagnosing complete strangers online based on next to nothing is my personal bug bear so I won't join in in delving into this woman's character or how her profession somehow makes her immune to expressing emotional vulnerability herself.

 

The trouble is that as a result of her reaction to Sal's behaviour, people are drawing various conclusions about him.

 

He's been dumped, which is never a good place to be. Being dumped by a professional therapist who has described his behaviour as egregious probably feels worse. Don't forget, this is a woman who has described her ex as a narcissist - and Sal said "she is actually qualified to diagnose".

 

I'm not sure how helpful it is to Sal for me to keep speculating on her professionalism, so I'll try to resist continuing down that path. However, even if somebody is qualified to diagnose narcissism generally, they can't really diagnose people close to them. There's not the necessary objectivity and clinical detachment.

 

What I'm getting form Sal's posts is that he's feeling worse about this on account of the ex's background as a therapist. He feels that she was qualified to assess her ex as a narcissist, and he probably feels vulnerable to being similarly pathologised - given her parting shots before she ended the relationship.

 

So I suppose for me, banging on about what I regard as dubious behaviour from a professional therapist is partly about challenging Sal's belief that this is a woman who is qualified to diagnose her ex partners. Pathologising or diagnosing her isn't necessarily going to be helpful - but neither are some of the judgements that have been passed on Sal himself.

 

I actually don't think it would be a bad idea for Sal to make an appointment with a reputable counsellor and talk some of this through with them, bearing in mind his ex is a therapist and there's a risk of him lending that bit too much weight to her inevitably biased assessment of him.

[salparadise]

Taramere, I really appreciate you having a balanced, realistic perspective on this. I have no idea why Elane and a couple of others are so presumptive.

 

Egregious was MY word, the gf never used that word at all. I'm telling you all, this was pretty minor stuff, but it triggered something larger in her. In that situation, her range of acceptable/unacceptable became extremely narrow. I suspect that it's because she was angry and frustrated with the overall situation as well. I vented a bit of my frustration as described, but she unloaded on me as if it was the most egregious (again, my word) thing imaginable. Then in her rant she used the word "scared" and I immediately called her on that because there was absolutely nothing scary about it. That word was employed as a tactic; it's one of those words that female victims can use, and a man can't defend. But it does give some insight into how she was magnifying all of it in that moment, and I suspect that she continued to do so in the two days following.

 

Let's just say the shoe was on the other foot... if it had been her car that got towed and she had some little snippiness thing I wouldn't have given it a second thought. My response would've been to empathize with her for how it sucks to get your car towed. I'm sure that almost no one else would have gone nuclear over it. I was utterly surprised when she said what she was upset about, as well as the degree of the upset. For something like this, most people would've just commented on it without emotion if they felt the need to say anything at all.

 

And to address those who've said that I have no remorse. That's just not true. I said somewhere in the early posts that I apologized and I did so sincerely. I do have remorse for everything that contributed to the episode and outcome, however, most contributors here do take me at my word, so I don't feel the need to express remorse over and over in every post.

Edited February 18, 2017 by salparadise

[Timshel]

Agree 150% PrettyEmily....attempting to diagnose an in the flesh person is difficult enough.

 

Also want to throw in my pretty, pretty reference in previous post.

 

[Taramere]

Egregious was MY word, the gf never used that word at all.

 

I'm glad you clarified that, Sal. I think that's fairly important.

[salparadise]

What I'm getting form Sal's posts is that he's feeling worse about this on account of the ex's background as a therapist. He feels that she was qualified to assess her ex as a narcissist, and he probably feels vulnerable to being similarly pathologised - given her parting shots before she ended the relationship.

 

So I suppose for me, banging on about what I regard as dubious behaviour from a professional therapist is partly about challenging Sal's belief that this is a woman who is qualified to diagnose her ex partners. Pathologising or diagnosing her isn't necessarily going to be helpful - but neither are some of the judgements that have been passed on Sal himself.

 

I actually don't think it would be a bad idea for Sal to make an appointment with a reputable counsellor and talk some of this through with them, bearing in mind his ex is a therapist and there's a risk of him lending that bit too much weight to her inevitably biased assessment of him.

 

Very well reasoned, Taramere. I'm not giving the fact that she's a licensed therapist too much credence. All of this is personal stuff, not professional. Yes, she's a license therapist but not currently practicing. She's a professor and teaches. To be more accurate, she said she suspects narcissism in her ex-husband, but she didn't literally label him. What's more relevant than her professional credentials is the fact that she has an anxiety disorder, is on antidepressants (SSRI) and sees a therapist herself regularly to help deal with the constant angst within. She's almost debilitated by perfectionism, is extremely PC and intolerant of anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same set of values.

 

To me, this is about the loss of what I felt was an amazing relationship in which I was truly invested, and the woman I loved. It's all very personal. I feel that her reaction was way-way-way beyond how a normal, healthy person would react in the same situation. Even after she left here angry that night, I expected that we'd sit down and talk it through. I would express remorse, promise that it would never happen again, and then we'd affirm our love and dedication. So I think I've got every right to be flummoxed and hurt at the way those dominoes fell. I guess she's decided that I'm a horrible person and unworthy of being loved, but I know what I have to offer in a relationship and know that I am a good and worthy person. I'm not letting her decision to take the nuclear option change that.

[Taramere]

Very well reasoned, Taramere. I'm not giving the fact that she's a licensed therapist too much credence. All of this is personal stuff, not professional. Yes, she's a license therapist but not currently practicing. She's a professor and teaches. To be more accurate, she said she suspects narcissism in her ex-husband, but she didn't literally label him. What's more relevant than her professional credentials is the fact that she has an anxiety disorder, is on antidepressants (SSRI) and sees a therapist herself regularly to help deal with the constant angst within. She's almost debilitated by perfectionism, is extremely PC and intolerant of anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same set of values.

 

I've suffered from anxiety at times too. It's not at all uncommon in people who are attracted to working with people in a helping capacity. The same traits that clients will appreciate (insight, empathy etc) sometimes come at a fairly hefty cost. Managing it is doable, but it requires some hard work and can also take a bit of fairly brutal self examination.

 

In terms of your ex seeing a therapist herself...I'm not sure what capacity that would be in, but I do think anybody doing a job like that needs to have regular supervision and debriefing with a skilled therapist to ensure their own issues (we all have them) are being addressed effectively and aren't encroaching onto their work with clients.

 

To me, this is about the loss of what I felt was an amazing relationship in which I was truly invested, and the woman I loved. It's all very personal. I feel that her reaction was way-way-way beyond how a normal, healthy person would react in the same situation.

 

That's the nature of triggers, I think. I can think of loads of people I've encountered in life who are generally pretty healthy and happy people...but at some point I'll have seen them react in an uncharacteristically aggressive, angry or upset way.

 

We all have our triggers, but ideally we'll recognise them and try to learn something useful from times we are triggered. Unfortunately I think there's a bit of a school of thought that encourages people to be aware of their triggers but doesn't necessarily encourage them to take all that much responsibility for learning to manage their responses to them. It can become too much about using "this is a trigger" in an effort to control other people's behaviour rather than to manage their own.

 

 

I guess she's decided that I'm a horrible person and unworthy of being loved

 

That's the sort of judgement you might have about a serial killer/sex offender etc. I very much doubt, regardless of the personal issues and anxieties she might have, that she has adopted such a vitriolic perspective of you. But I understand that in situations like this, it's easy and tempting to attribute that position and that sort of thinking to an ex. Especially if the relationship has ended in a way that makes you feel severely judged by them.

 

I think the most likely explanation for what's happened is that she isn't really all that sure why she wants the relationship to end, feels guilty about hurting you and was over the top in her judgements of your behaviour because on some level she wants to justify ending the relationship.

 

It's not necessarily that all those things you found so great about her and connected with were fake....but there's a counter side to that empathy, sensitivity etc. A less laudable side. The anxiety and tendency to insecurity, for instance. It sounds as though she's got a lot of work ahead of her to learn to manage the challenges her particular personality type pose and make a relationship work.

 

I think as your anger with her, for the way she ended this, dissipates you will in turn feel less judged by her. Or less concerned about being judged by her.

[amaysngrace]

Several times on this thread people have described him as having lost control. Having an emotional breakdown in public. That sounds, to me, dramatic enough for staff to call the police or threaten to do so - or, at the very least, for management/security to eject him from the premises.

 

There's not even a hint of staff reacting in that way, which suggests to me that phrases like "out of control" or "emotional breakdown" from posters on this thread are unhelpfully over-reactive.

 

Understood and agreed but IIRC he said that he was frustrated by the turn of events. He then had to interact with a couple of people who were just doing their jobs. Perhaps he was rude? People generally don't have security called on them for just being rude, yet it's used as a gauge on how to pick a partner.

 

How many times have we heard "pay attention to how they treat the waitress"? It could have easily not been his anger at all but rather his demeanor that turned her off. It could have been how he refused to give the tow truck driver his phone number as requested because while not an odd request, maybe his reaction was. Or maybe it was his failure to plan the night a little more which in turn made her feel taken for granted and unappreciated as he didn't even bother to make the evening nice for her and maybe she thought she deserved better.

 

It could be a number of things or it could be a combination of a few or only one thing in particular. I guess my point is that just because she has standards and he he didn't live up to them doesn't make her a terrible person or a mental person. We don't know if Sal tends to downplay his own bad behavior as you've suggested some of us may have a tendency to do, and we don't know that if while he viewed their relationship as warm and loving and wonderful she's been seeing red flags all along.

 

We just don't know.

 

But I don't think it's going to be easy for him to learn for next time if he is only able to put all of the blame on her. I also think others who keep joining him in knocking her down are doing him a great disservice. And that's unfortunate.

Edited February 19, 2017 by amaysngrace

[Onnanoko]

Let me elaborate a bit. I meant to say that whether your behavior on that fateful night was off limits was really relative to each person (apparently, it was not, according to the standards of most in this thread). My conjecture is that your ex-girlfriend had probably pigeonholed you into the "gentleman" box; as you mentioned, you pretty much never displayed any anger throughout your relationship. So for you to act with frustration and to be rude to those working a minimum wage, it came as a shock to her. I think that if she were initially drawn to you by, say, your ambition, then she could well have thought nothing of what happened. You kept making this "out of league" comment; so my guess is that being a gentleman was a very important trait of yours in the relationship.

 

I completely agree with most that breaking up with you over text was immature. But she did give you an explanation/excuse for why she broke up with you, just that you didn't think it was a plausible one.

 

I do think (if I remember correctly) that the OP stated that his ex girlfriend is much younger than he is, which completely explains the blatant immaturity and overreaction that she had over Sal's human moment the night his car was towed, which ultimately placed a damper on the entire evening and caused this young woman (who wasn't secure enough with herself or mature enough to handle a person reacting in a human way to a stressful situation) to end a long term relationship that was otherwise going well for over a year and a half without any humane or compassionate explanation.

 

Sad to say, it is my opinion that Sal was in a relationship for over a year with a ghost. She was never fully invested in this relationship nor did she truly love him with all of her heart. For if she had, she would have cared enough to sit down with him IN PERSON and divulge all of her true feelings to him and she would have been MATURE ENOUGH to end the relationship face to face the way any caring and mature ADULT would have. How she ended the relationship the way that she did was what any wayward cowardly person could have done.

 

I feel that Sal has truly dodged a bullet with this woman. If seeing her boyfriend become annoyed and frustrated during an understandably stressful situation was enough to cause this young woman to become unhinged and experience an "emotional breakdown", god forbid if he had actually married her and she saw him become annoyed and frustrated within some other stressful experience, she would have divorced him!

 

OP, what this young woman did to you would have happened some time down the road anyway. I feel it is in your best interest that she broke up with you now as opposed to later, when you would have been even more invested in this relationship. Since she is young, her karma will arrive in due time. When it does, it will only be then that she will (hopefully) figure it out and learn from what she has done. If not, it will be her current suitor who will be on the receiving end of this lesson.

[thefooloftheyear]

Even in real face to face interactions, no one 'nails' it...meaning perception is everything and two people having a conversation in the same room will provide report differently in five minutes. Quantify this by written word, forget it. Of course it is worthwhile if the OP is able to glean some insight and satisfaction of ego.

 

'She sucks and he's a hero' is as nonexistent online as it is in reality. Most people in this thread have been very fair.

Based on Sal's report and quite frankly, general human nature, his ex dumping him by text after a year and a half relationship is abnormal.

 

Based on Sal's posting history, even regarding this relationship, there is nothing to indicate that he should be unceremoniously dumped or regarded as a threat to her personal/emotional safety.

 

In any case, it seems that Sal was blindsided. We either believe that he is entirely imperceptive or accept that while he is no angel, his ex withheld information vital to the success of their relationship.

 

Agreed...

 

But also remember....

 

"blindsided" is a funny thing....Because I am an employer, I have the unfortunate duty to fire people from time to time...When they ask for reason(s), depending on the circumstances, Ill either give them a standard BS answer like "its just not a good fit" or if it was something serious, they may know ahead of time and not bother asking...

 

But some of these things are kinda like the same story...Later on, I may hear from someone that may know the person that got let go, and they give the same answers and have the same perplexed feeling that the OP has..According to them, everything was great and they were a model employee and I was always satisfied with their work......

 

Well...it really wasn't great, they just didn't see what was going on around them...Hence, the only thing that categorizes it as blindsided is they were too blind to see why they actually got dropped on their heads...

 

TFY

[marky00]

 

Or we can all say she sucks and is mean spirited, and he's a hero ....and gain nothing....

 

TFY

 

 

That's black and white thinking. Not one I subscribe to.

 

 

I have no problem with presenting possible scenarios but there are people here that have made over 10 posts suggesting quite strongly the OP "MUST HAVE" some type of anger/control/behavioural issues.

 

 

Insight and analysis regarding possible scenarios can be of some benefit down the line but this breakup is too fresh and it's time to pull back on all the negative talk or the OP might sink into a rabbit hole of over-thinking.

 

 

If you can honestly say that all these posts in here are focussing ultimately on the welfare of the OP (what LS should be all about), then there is nothing left to say.

[Taramere]

This entire thread reminds me of an incident involving an ex - hence, perhaps, my preoccupation with it. Now his behaviour, in a restaurant, truly was appalling. It was all over a minor addition to the bill for bread and condiments that we hadn't wanted and hadn't used. I'd sensed a scene was on its way. I said I didn't want a fuss and that I would pay for the extra charge. He wasn't having that, and it ended with him behaving in a truly appalling and horrendously embarrassing way in that restaurant. A genuine "emotional breakdown". And I am embarrassed to say that I didn't finish that relationship there and then.

 

I let him know how horrified I was, but I also felt concerned about his wellbeing. He was working in a foreign country, I was visiting (so there was the added issue of where I would go, in the middle of the night, if I was going to react with "that's it, we're done..."). However, my main thing was that I loved him and was worried about him. Worried about what was going on that he'd have such a bizarre reaction to what I regarded as a triviality. I knew he was an unusual character who'd had problems in his teens and who sometimes came out with embarrassingly inappropriate comments...but I'd certainly never witnessed anything like this from him.

 

He had felt insulted that he was subjected to a minor charge that restaurants tended to levy on tourists but not on locals. Well, even if you're working in a particular city - if you don't speak the local language, you're going to be treated like a tourist. A narcissistic meltdown (I think it's fair to use the word narcissistic in that particular scenario) is not an appropriate reaction to that basic reality. It was awful. I can still remember the waiter and I staring at eachother in frozen shock. The waiter looking at me, gesturing towards him and saying "Madame!" He didn't speak much English, but it was like he was gesturing "Madame, can't you control this one or find a better man to eat out with??" Meantime I could hear other tourists in the restaurant laughing or saying "his poor girlfriend...how embarrassing..."

 

His apology afterwards was along the lines of "I know you don't like scenes..." As though it wasn't so much that there was anything outlandish about his behaviour (regardless of the shocked or hysterically laughing reaction of other diners), it was just that I was a bit overly sensitive. Now I suppose if I read something on a message board that sounded like a dramatically minimised version of that incident, and found myself defined as ridiculously sensitive or whatever else...I would be all "oh my God, this guy is completely blind to the enormity of his anger issues and how dare he define me as overly sensitive for having a perfectly normal mortified reaction to his behaviour." Sal's ex's reaction would have been a wholly appropriate one to that restaurant episode I went through. Indeed, her reaction should have been mine back then. I was too understanding.

 

 

I feel as though people are attributing to Sal the kind of unequivocally dysfunctional and out of control attitude and behaviour that I witnessed that night, in that restaurant...and having experienced something like that first hand I don't think that's at all fair. There is a world of difference between an out of control angry narcissistic meltdown, and somebody who's being a bit rude because they're stressed out and irritated (and are perhaps encountering a brusque attitude from an employee who's on minimum wage and just can't be arsed being nice to customers).

 

If a woman feels afraid by any hint of male anger then that's how she feels I suppose...but it just doesn't seem like a realistic way to go through life, and nor is it very conducive to that woman having open and honest communication with the men in her life.

[PrettyEmily77]

If a woman feels afraid by any hint of male anger then that's how she feels I suppose...but it just doesn't seem like a realistic way to go through life, and nor is it very conducive to that woman having open and honest communication with the men in her life.

 

What you experienced was clearly, unequivocally over the top but I think this is a completely different scenario here.

 

From what I gather, she said the incident made her scared (so she was communicating her feelings, possibly for the first time, expressing her unease at the situation, possibly as a result of a trigger), and her reaction was met with dismissal, frustration at her 'rant' and how saying how she felt was her using a classic 'female victim' 'tactic', which is the mother of all triggers an will be seen as very dismissive and insensitive by anyone who has been subjected to a very abusive partner (which seems to have been the case for this woman in her previous relationship) - put bluntly, that's a major sign of incompatibility right here, and nothing to do with any sort of feminist position or any sign of emotional or mental dysfunction, both in my opinion and in my experience.

 

No amount of empathising with the car being towed or apologising for the way the staff were spoken to (not that big a deal, in the scheme of things) is going to fix that, because neither is the issue, again in my opinion.

 

It could be that the whole conversation right after the incident was an ill-timed one-off or an overreaction, or it could have been the last drop for the ex, but open and honest communication is a two-way street and unless the fundamental difference can be understood and overcome by both parties, a parting of ways seems like the right course of action at this point.

Edited February 19, 2017 by PrettyEmily77

[Els]

With all due respect, I don't think there's anything to be gained from analyzing her responses or personality or mental health, at least not to the degree that it's being done. If she's out dating again, she's clearly checked out so there's no purpose in letting her occupy your headspace and life further. Now, I also get that this is far easier said than done especially for a LTR, but at least TRY. Try to spend the next week just not analyzing her at all, preferably distracting yourself if she enters your thoughts. See if that helps? Because this, 13 pages of this, doesn't really appear to be doing you any good.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[JuneL]

 

From what I gather, she said the incident made her scared (so she was communicating her feelings, possibly for the first time, expressing her unease at the situation, possibly as a result of a trigger), and her reaction was met with dismissal, frustration at her 'rant' and how saying how she felt was her using a classic 'female victim' 'tactic', which is the mother of all triggers an will be seen as very dismissive and insensitive by anyone who has been subjected to a very abusive partner (which seems to have been the case for this woman in her previous relationship) - put bluntly, that's a major sign of incompatibility right here, and nothing to do with any sort of feminist position or any sign of emotional or mental dysfunction, both in my opinion and in my experience.

 

No amount of empathising with the car being towed or apologising for the way the staff were spoken to (not that big a deal, in the scheme of things) is going to fix that, because neither is the issue, again in my opinion.

 

It could be that the whole conversation right after the incident was an ill-timed one-off or an overreaction, or it could have been the last drop for the ex, but open and honest communication is a two-way street and unless the fundamental difference can be understood and overcome by both parties, a parting of ways seems like the right course of action at this point.

 

Good observation about their last face-to-face convo. Maybe in her mind, the convo following that incident at your place was sort of a pre-breakup talk. After thinking a few more days, she decided that was it.

[Timshel]

Agreed...

 

But also remember....

 

"blindsided" is a funny thing....Because I am an employer, I have the unfortunate duty to fire people from time to time...When they ask for reason(s), depending on the circumstances, Ill either give them a standard BS answer like "its just not a good fit" or if it was something serious, they may know ahead of time and not bother asking...

 

But some of these things are kinda like the same story...Later on, I may hear from someone that may know the person that got let go, and they give the same answers and have the same perplexed feeling that the OP has..According to them, everything was great and they were a model employee and I was always satisfied with their work......

 

Well...it really wasn't great, they just didn't see what was going on around them...Hence, the only thing that categorizes it as blindsided is they were too blind to see why they actually got dropped on their heads...

 

TFY

 

I agree there are similarities with running a business and a relationship. A business owner hires a person to join their team with the objective of pursuing the goals, standards and priorities of the business. The owner has made an investment in the employee and vice versa.

 

Along these lines, it is in the interest of a business owner to communicate both positive and negative feedback. If criticism is relayed and the employee disregards and fails to improve then, dump (fire.)

 

I guess in Sal's case the feedback was either disregarded by him...perhaps it was too subtle, perhaps he only saw/heard what he wanted.

OR, there was no negative feedback and he was therefore blindsided.

 

All any poster can do is spitball and theorize for whatever that's worth to Sal.

At this point, I agree with Els that it's going round and round and very fresh. Maybe preoccupying himself with other things a while will both benefit his healing and allow for organic clarity. Ha, I've had some great epiphanies while my body and mind were far from the thought.

 

Anyway, wishing you well Sal...losing a relationship sucks but you haven't lost the experience and eventual wisdom.

Best.

[PrettyEmily77]

Good observation about their last face-to-face convo. Maybe in her mind, the convo following that incident at your place was sort of a pre-breakup talk. After thinking a few more days, she decided that was it.

 

That's only my perspective, but as someone who has experienced severe dysfunction in a LTR, 'don't play the female victim card' is my no going back line in the sand in whatever context, but especially if I already know there won't be any meeting half-way or acknowledgement in terms of shared responsibility - that's why I can relate to how the events unfolded, and I'm no feminist.

 

With that being said, that doesn't minimise Sal's heartbreak at what is, from his perspective, a brutal end to a loving relationship.

[salparadise]

Try to spend the next week just not analyzing her at all, preferably distracting yourself if she enters your thoughts. See if that helps? Because this, 13 pages of this, doesn't really appear to be doing you any good.

 

Actually, it has done me a lot of good. I am grieving a significant loss. I think this is only the third time in my life that I've fully submitted to love... intentionally, intuitively, biologically, and with a truly open heart. I didn't hold back. I said the words honestly and often, and it was always reciprocated. She actually said it first, about a week before Christmas, over a year ago. So the point is that this was a lot more significant to me than just dating.

 

When a person is grieving, the way they work through it is by talking and dealing with it directly, not avoiding it. Avoiding it prolongs suffering, perhaps never resolving it. It's typical that a person wears out friends and family who are willing to talk long before they've talked enough. In my case, I don't have many people to talk to, so having this thread, and a good number of gracious people who are understanding and empathetic, is meaningful and extremely helpful. I want every one of you to know that I truly appreciate your time, attention and generosity of spirit.

 

So we have three main elements:

1. Normal grief as would be expected with a significant loss.

2. The seemingly cruel and unusual way she chose to deliver the blow.

3. The dissonance created by my long-held belief that what we had was special, healthy and that we were both "all-in," contrasted with the facts that indicate she was not... although she pretended to be, encouraged me to be, and mirrored my words and actions in such a way as to be quite convincing.

 

Numbers 2 and 3 compound no. 1 such that it leaves important questions unanswered. Being a rational (INTJ) type, I need those answers. Once the facts are in order and beliefs have had time to adjust, the compounding factors are reduced and I can begin to move on. Again, this thread and several empathic people have been enormously beneficial in helping me to see multiple perspectives. Those who are irritated by the length of the thread, or are only here to discount and antagonize based on having had prior disagreements with me, are welcome to move on. Those who are interested and have something to contribute (even if not necessarily soothing), are still very much appreciated.

 

I am moving toward acceptance, and I realize that I may not ever get all the answers to provide complete logical resolution. I am past the initial shock and the bargaining stage, but still have a ways to go. I am a sensitive person too. I can't just brush it off and move on in a week or two. It took a week before I could even bring myself to post. I'm still having trouble sleeping, have lost ten pounds (not a bad thing), and can only go short periods without it dominating my mind... but those short periods are getting longer day by day, and the healing will happen on its own schedule, not by thinking rationally and saying to myself "just be done with it."

 

It feels good to be able to post here, to say how I feel and be authentic. At a certain age, having survived life's ups and downs and heartbreaks, one reaches a point where it doesn't make any sense to be anything other than authentic. I hope perhaps others can glean something from it too.

[sam2017]

Men and women do not love the same and they will bail no matter how caring, loving, and understanding you are.. no matter how invested or how much your a team... you can always be cut and traded at the expense of their feelings. You will be left with wtf just happened.

This is the reality many people refuse to believe until they see it them selves..

 

Absolutely right. I used to think that only my ex believed in her self to be the center of the universe, but it seems now she is not an exception. Throughout our marriage every thing went her way only, me and the children were no more than an obedient "good boys". Still she filed for the divorce after 21 long years. I'd never get the answer or the real reason behind that. Anyway, I don't want to know and I don't care for wtf had happened. its never too late to start over again.

[Taramere]

What you experienced was clearly, unequivocally over the top but I think this is a completely different scenario here.

 

From what I gather, she said the incident made her scared (so she was communicating her feelings, possibly for the first time, expressing her unease at the situation, possibly as a result of a trigger), and her reaction was met with dismissal, frustration at her 'rant' and how saying how she felt was her using a classic 'female victim' 'tactic', which is the mother of all triggers an will be seen as very dismissive and insensitive by anyone who has been subjected to a very abusive partner

 

Oh...yeah. I can see that a conversation like that would be the beginning of an end. I thought that was something Sal was talking about here rather than it being a conversation he had with his gf after the incident.

 

I keep seeing references to stuff that isn't mentioned in the original post. A certain amount of gender warring, feminism-v-antifeminism stuff has set in, in the course of analysing this particular situation (perhaps because Sal mentioned that she has quite strong feminist views)...and I think that's blurring the details of what actually happened between the two of them.

[salparadise]

Oh...yeah. I can see that a conversation like that would be the beginning of an end. I thought that was something Sal was talking about here rather than it being a conversation he had with his gf after the incident.

 

The way it happened was like this... once we arrived back at my place, she announced that she was quite upset with me and began to enumerate my transgressions. I didn't argue with her at first, I just listened and said I was sorry, hoping to deescalate. But she wasn't ready to let it go, so she bumped it up ten notches by saying that I had scared her. This the woman's trump card––a man can't say, no I didn't because you can't argue with what someone says they feel. It's indefensible, automatically guilty. But I knew for a fact that there was nothing said or done that justified that statement. So I said [something to the effect] that I didn't believe I had done anything scary. I supposed it could have been key to her decision to nuke the relationship––who knows, it wasn't rational and she won't talk to me. When she added that part, it changed the transgression from me having been disrespectful to third parties, to a much greater transgression agains her. It became indefensible at that point and anything I might have said would've been wrong. I have no doubt that the feminist thing was a contributing factor as well. Once the devaluation began, I became just one more "phukkiing white male," unworthy of empathy, understanding or even an explanation.

Edited February 19, 2017 by salparadise