The post that I hoped I'd never have to write.

[salparadise]

It really is sadistic. You are left with the caring, you are left with your love for her, and you are left with the confusion her sudden turnabout brings.

 

That sadistic, uncaring cutoff is the hardest part to accept. If she had been reasonable and sat down and said something like, I can no longer envision a future together but it breaks my heart to let you go, and shed a few tears with me then it would've seemed reasonable. My preferred way to have said goodbye would've been with hugs and tears and heartfelt good wishes. That's a strength, one that she doesn't share, unfortunately.

 

In the wake of the confusion, in the wake of her transformation, amidst all the broken pieces of the caring, love, and safe place from which to be vulnerable that you thought you had, how do you regain a healthy sense of control in your life?

 

I'm healing day by day. I was a mess the day I opened the thread, doing better now. I don't see it as being about regaining control. To me, it's about accepting the lack of control and being okay with it. She doesn't want me anymore. I can't control that. She ended it in a cruel and unusual manner, I can't control that. She won't do one damn thing to assuage my suffering. I can't control that.

 

What I have to do is embrace the fact doesn't change who I am, it only makes me sad and means I have to find a place to put those things, grieve the loss and prepare my heart to be open once again.

 

 

The fact that you not only can feel so sorry for her because she's never had the real experience of love, but also do, says so much about you. With all the hurt, anger, resentment, love, and empathy for her that you are left with, how do you in the short term and the long term release her?

 

I think it's just a matter of allowing myself to feel it, realizing that it's okay to feel what I'm feeling, and be proud of myself for being willing to take the risk even though I loved and lost this time. It's far better than withdrawing into a shell and putting up defenses to guard against it ever getting my heart broken again. It will just take time. I really have accepted certain things... that if it hadn't happened on January 28th, it would've happened a week, a month or a year from now. It's actually amazing that we lasted a year and a half given her volatility, and the shortness of her fuse. I intend to put myself back out there, and relegate this to life experience, while not completely invalidating the whole relationship. The ending is on her. If she weren't so intolerant, severe and shallow in her attachment we'd be having a lovely dinner and showering each other with affection tonight.

 

And what things can you do (concretely, in this case, not abstractly) to reclaim your identity separate from hers again, like it was before you met her?

 

I will equilibrate and be ok. I will meet more women and in time I will find someone who will match my awesome capacity for intimacy and authenticity. In the meantime, I'm starting to think it's about time I started getting laid again.

Edited February 25, 2017 by salparadise

[marky00]

OP , she definitely will reach out at some point, not necessarily for the right reasons.

 

 

My Ex pulled the same stunt. Dumped me in her country when I was visiting her on a holiday. Found out she met someone else after 9 years or so.

 

 

All I got from her was that she had some "thinking time". She didn't even want to meet in person until I demanded it since I was fricken already in her country.

 

 

After about 6 months NC, the bread crumbs are flowing. I am almost certain your Ex is the type to reach out at some point.

 

 

Its always the people who can't handle a breakup properly who come back in some capacity.

Edited February 25, 2017 by marky00

[salparadise]

OP , she definitely will reach out at some point, not necessarily for the right reasons.

 

Its always the people who can't handle a breakup properly who come back in some capacity.

 

I honestly can't see that happening. Could be wrong, but I think I have been completely devalued in her mind. I think my equity went from 90+ to negative numbers in the blink of an eye. This is also why I think there's something wrong with how she views and attaches to intimate partners.

[chix]

Thank you, Sal. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I also like that you answers as if you were speaking, which makes it very easy to relate to and fosters a conversation.

 

What are you doing with your weekend?

 

I wonder if I might make a suggestion for something that I believe has been very healing to me in times of being overwhelmed/feeling confused/etc etc. Have you ever studied other languages?

 

I love wordplay, and I love learning the significance of words in cultures and cities. I love being able to communicate with people on their terms, and recognising their triumphs and tragedies in their mother tongue, in order that they can focus on their experience. I listen to music, read books and watch films in all kinds of languages, and I feel it has helped me to develop another layer of understanding about how similar people are all over the world, and also why misunderstandings happen.

 

No financial outlay is needed whatsoever. There are always local people and peope online to arrange a language exchange with. There are loads of free resources online to use for studying. There are usually language study groups in communities. It's a great way to meet new friends, and exercise the brain.

 

What do you think?

[salparadise]

Thank you, Sal. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I also like that you answers as if you were speaking, which makes it very easy to relate to and fosters a conversation.

 

What are you doing with your weekend?

 

I wonder if I might make a suggestion for something that I believe has been very healing to me in times of being overwhelmed/feeling confused/etc etc. Have you ever studied other languages?

 

What do you think?

 

That sounds like more than a weekend project. I don't live in a multi-lingual location. I might work a crossword puzzle, go for a walk or shoot a few games of pool.

 

Positive interactions with women would be good too, but that's about as easy to pull off as learning a new language.

[chix]

That sounds like more than a weekend project. I don't live in a multi-lingual location. I might work a crossword puzzle, go for a walk or shoot a few games of pool.

 

Positive interactions with women would be good too, but that's about as easy to pull off as learning a new language.

 

I love pool. I don't get many opportunities, and am blessed with much more luck than talent when playing.

 

There are loads of communities online set-up for language exchanges. People can exchange messages through voice, video or typing. I can recommend some websites, if you're ever curious.

 

The method I have found most easy has been to study a language for an hour each day, and I tend to be fairly mobile by about the 3 month mark.

 

Are you a sports fan? Do you get out much to exercise? 1 of the ways I find effective to lift my spirits is to exercise until the oxytocin kicks in.

[Onnanoko]

That sadistic, uncaring cutoff is the hardest part to accept. If she had been reasonable and sat down and said something like, I can no longer envision a future together but it breaks my heart to let you go, and shed a few tears with me then it would've seemed reasonable. My preferred way to have said goodbye would've been with hugs and tears and heartfelt good wishes. That's a strength, one that she doesn't share, unfortunately.

 

Good morning Sal. I hope your healing has become more progressive since the break up. It is my honest opinion that your ex girlfriend didn't face you and end the relationship in a more compassionate and normal way because she was (and still is) a coward. Disingenuous and cowardly people do not possess any integrity or empathy, so instead of facing the person that they have caused harm to and acknowledging responsibility for it, they choose to run from it without any consideration of the heartbreak and hurt feelings they leave in their wake. As you have stated, if the break up did not happen when it did, it most likely would have happened eventually..and probably sooner than later, after you would have invested even more of your heart and emotions in her.

 

 

I'm healing day by day. I was a mess the day I opened the thread, doing better now. I don't see it as being about regaining control. To me, it's about accepting the lack of control and being okay with it. She doesn't want me anymore. I can't control that. She ended it in a cruel and unusual manner, I can't control that. She won't do one damn thing to assuage my suffering. I can't control that.

 

This is a very healthy attitude to have, even as your heart has been broken and is in the process of healing. You realize that in life, people cannot control what others do to them, BUT, they can control how they react to it.

 

 

What I have to do is embrace the fact doesn't change who I am, it only makes me sad and means I have to find a place to put those things, grieve the loss and prepare my heart to be open once again.

 

Reading this last sentence leads me to believe that you are a very brave person with a hopeful and loving soul. For you to be strong enough and brave enough to prepare your heart to being open to loving and trusting another woman again is, to me, absolutely remarkable. I wish that I had this same leap of faith attitude as you have. I honestly am too afraid of ever becoming that vulnerable again with any man, no matter how kind and loving he may be (or may appear to be). I realize me doing this could have me miss out on a wonderful opportunity to be with someone who truly is genuinely loving and caring..but the alternative of having my heart ripped to shreds again is something that frightens me to the core..to me, it is not worth the risk.

 

 

The ending is on her. If she weren't so intolerant, severe and shallow in her attachment we'd be having a lovely dinner and showering each other with affection tonight.

 

Yes, the ending IS on her and always will be. Even people with her magnitude of apathy and cowardice do eventually begin to feel guilt about the hurt they have caused to another person, even if they never divulge it to anyone or express this guilt outwardly. It is my concern that, after a time, she will reach out to you..if only to apologize to you and see how you are coping..and that you will break NC and actually engage in a dialogue with her. In my opinion, she does not deserve any attention or response from you at all if/when she does attempt to initiate contact.

 

 

 

I will equilibrate and be ok. I will meet more women and in time I will find someone who will match my awesome capacity for intimacy and authenticity. In the meantime, I'm starting to think it's about time I started getting laid again.

 

With that attitude, I am sure you will!

[Abhainn]

I will try to keep this as short as possible, but I want to respond to the things that you said, and then after giving you a brief summary of my background in the information, go over some of the research that is pertinent to this, and make some suggestions from it that I hope might work for you. I know you're probably being given suggestions right and left, but I do think these have the opportunity to address some of the more immediate issues.

 

That sadistic, uncaring cutoff is the hardest part to accept. If she had been reasonable and sat down and said something like, I can no longer envision a future together but it breaks my heart to let you go, and shed a few tears with me then it would've seemed reasonable. My preferred way to have said goodbye would've been with hugs and tears and heartfelt good wishes. That's a strength, one that she doesn't share, unfortunately.

 

That is the kind of goodbye too, that I prefer. For you, having that definitive reason given, and knowing that you still cared about each other sounds important. When you say that your preferred way would have been with hugs, tears, and the knowledge that breaking up broke her heart too, I'm wondering if you feel like that would have given you the reassurance that you needed that you had at the very least, given your heart to someone who would keep it safely to the best of their ability. I'm sorry that you didn't. I'm sorry that you have this loss and wound to grieve. However, that you recognize your style, needs, and preferences as a strength that you wish to preserve in the future does say clearly that you are healing.

 

I'm healing day by day. I was a mess the day I opened the thread, doing better now. I don't see it as being about regaining control. To me, it's about accepting the lack of control and being okay with it. She doesn't want me anymore. I can't control that. She ended it in a cruel and unusual manner, I can't control that. She won't do one damn thing to assuage my suffering. I can't control that.

 

I'll address this one more when I go over the research, and I see what you're saying and no, of course you cannot control her, and its important that you recognize that. You can't control any of what she did, or that she won't give you what would have helped you to heal. I think, though that it is important to re-establish for yourself a sense of control through the things that you can control. So I'm wondering what things do you do that make you feel most in control, on top of yourself, and with it?

 

What I have to do is embrace the fact doesn't change who I am, it only makes me sad and means I have to find a place to put those things, grieve the loss and prepare my heart to be open once again.

 

Yes, very much this is a process. The grief and loss will ebb into the background. I hear you say that you have to. But it sounds to me from everything else that you are saying, that it is more dynamic than that. Because you don't have to. You could choose to hide in a shell. You could choose to nurse this grief and pain for the rest of your life. But that is not what you are choosing. You are choosing to embrace the sadness and grief, so that you are open again. I do wonder if it might help to view this as your choice now?

 

I think it's just a matter of allowing myself to feel it, realizing that it's okay to feel what I'm feeling, and be proud of myself for being willing to take the risk even though I loved and lost this time. It's far better than withdrawing into a shell and putting up defenses to guard against it ever getting my heart broken again. It will just take time. I really have accepted certain things... that if it hadn't happened on January 28th, it would've happened a week, a month or a year from now. It's actually amazing that we lasted a year and a half given her volatility, and the shortness of her fuse. I intend to put myself back out there, and relegate this to life experience, while not completely invalidating the whole relationship. The ending is on her. If she weren't so intolerant, severe and shallow in her attachment we'd be having a lovely dinner and showering each other with affection tonight.

 

I think that the part that I highlighted is really important for you. How do you move this from a thought about what you need to do and should feel about it, to how you actually do? How do you generate compassion for yourself?

 

I will equilibrate and be ok. I will meet more women and in time I will find someone who will match my awesome capacity for intimacy and authenticity. In the meantime, I'm starting to think it's about time I started getting laid again.

 

You will be, and it is good that you are expressing that to yourself. Just a quick note, when affirming yourself in these ways to yourself, it actually works better and is more powerful to do so in the second person, so if you're sitting around feeling like your getting unhealthfully negative (understandable given what you've been through), saying to yourself, "you will equilibrate and be ok" will actually have a more powerful effect on you (from current research).

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Okay, so now the background, information, and suggestions stuff. I will try to keep this as short as possible.

 

I am working in a lab that studies relationships as we speak, so I'm reasonably up on the literature and the kinds of topics that are currently being studied.

 

We have spoken of the merging of identities that occur in longer and more meaningful relationships to different degrees depending on cultural factors, attachment style, and other factors (this has been researched). And also a sense of the control of the self (and here I am stepping off from the research I know a little. It is a common experience in the wake of a relational end to feel a sense of loss of control, and I think it is possible that it does stem in part from the loss of an important part of your identity. And to get back on to research, there is newer research emerging that couples often aid each other in aspects of self-control, that self-control tasks become joined. Though this last bit may not have kicked in much yet for your relationship.

 

So in many ways, not only re-establishing your identity separate from hers is important, but reestablishing a sense of control and self-control when part of your identity and life that you knew has been stripped away.

 

And this is why I keep asking about what things really bring you back to yourself. What things that you do on your own time really help you experience flow and make you feel more like you. Because making a daily regimen of these things will both increase your sense of control, and help you come back faster to your individual identity apart from hers. What things (I know I already asked this above) make you feel really on top of your life and in control? And how could you incorporate them into a daily regimen? How can you make (concretely, not just abstractly) reestablishing your identity separate from hers a top priority for you?

Edited February 25, 2017 by Abhainn

[salparadise]

Two thoughtful, empathetic posts together this morning! Thank you, Onnanoko and Abhainn –– much appreciated and helpful.

 

I remember expressing to my gf just a week or two before the blowup that I felt like I had significantly integrated her person into my being. I had worked through the vulnerability anxiety and trusted her implicitly. I would never have guessed that we were approaching the end. Sometimes I wonder if my intimacy was too much for her to handle, if it induced anxiety, or if she was just overwhelmed. She often said that what we shared in terms of openness and communication was something she'd never had before, and that she valued it greatly. But that must not have actually been the case on some level despite the affirmations. I wonder if while I was going deeper and becoming more committed and comfortable, that she was secretly becoming fearful and distancing.

 

Yes, I can relate to what you say about the research and merging of personalities. But we also had appropriate boundaries I think. We weren't enmeshed, or at least I don't believe so. But in hindsight, one of my theories is that she required perfect mirroring, and that fateful night what happened was that I cracked the mirror by reacting in a way that was inconsistent with her values and identity.

 

So yes, I get that I need to reestablish myself as an individual, non-integrated personality and embrace my separateness emotionally, physically and symbolically. I don't have a strategy all worked out. I am hurt and lonely and I just want to be soothed. I need connection and human touch. Those feelings keep me longing for her to come back, even though I know cognitively that it's over. I guess I need to develop a plan. My life has become smaller over the past several years. This relationship was lifting me up again and I invested heavily in our shared, together identity. I do need to redevelop my personal mojo.

 

 

 

We have spoken of the merging of identities that occur in longer and more meaningful relationships to different degrees depending on cultural factors, attachment style, and other factors (this has been researched). And also a sense of the control of the self (and here I am stepping off from the research I know a little. It is a common experience in the wake of a relational end to feel a sense of loss of control, and I think it is possible that it does stem in part from the loss of an important part of your identity. And to get back on to research, there is newer research emerging that couples often aid each other in aspects of self-control, that self-control tasks become joined. Though this last bit may not have kicked in much yet for your relationship.

 

So in many ways, not only re-establishing your identity separate from hers is important, but reestablishing a sense of control and self-control when part of your identity and life that you knew has been stripped away.

 

And this is why I keep asking about what things really bring you back to yourself. What things that you do on your own time really help you experience flow and make you feel more like you. Because making a daily regimen of these things will both increase your sense of control, and help you come back faster to your individual identity apart from hers. What things (I know I already asked this above) make you feel really on top of your life and in control? And how could you incorporate them into a daily regimen? How can you make (concretely, not just abstractly) reestablishing your identity separate from hers a top priority for you?

[Abhainn]

Forgive me, in no way was I suggesting that the two of you were unhealthfully enmeshed. I sometimes have the tendency to assume that some things are obvious that are not necessarily so. So what I should have specified clearly, is that the research I was talking about regarding the merging of identities was on healthy people in reasonably healthy relationships (on the whole).

 

You clearly are very insightful to have recognized that you had integrated her (I would say each other, but I don't think that is what happened) into your identity.

 

When you say that you need to develop a plan, I can hear that you are thinking about the plan you need to make, the change, I guess you can say. That you recognize you are at a place where you need to be and are probably considering alternatives for how to enact that change. And from the hesitation that is there too in your statement, I'm wondering if you're evaluating how much strength and energy it will take, and whether in the aftermath of this you have that quite yet?

 

It will take a little bit to do, and a little bit of continuing self-control, but since the hope is that you'd be choosing positive stuff for the most case that you like to do, it won't feel like too much of a burden and can be a solace.

 

Here is an example of how you might work out a strategy, that you can tailor to yourself, if you decide you want to, and have the strength and energy to.

 

1) Make a list of things that make you feel in control and on top of things. I'll give you a sample of my own off the top of my head..

 

--making and keeping a bullet journal/organizer

--checking into my computer every morning

--keeping a regimen of my favorite exercises

--getting sun every day

--doing some real practice (not just mindless playing)

--meditating at least once a day

 

2) Make a list of things that make you feel most yourself (hobbies, skills, interests, those things that make you YOU). Sometimes there will be overlap..

 

--my music (both listening and playing)

--Exercising.

--reading

--dancing

--thinking about current puzzle/mystery/question of interest

--studying

--researching

--helping others

--church and spiritual life

 

3) Make a list of the things that you need in your life (like you said, some touch and human connection, and with each one, strategies for how to get those, for example if you didn't feel quite ready for sex and intimacy with someone else yet, you could consider various kinds of massage, or a book group).

 

4) Take these things that are now all concrete actions that you can take and combine them into your already existing schedule and try to mix at least a few into each day. If you're like me and need some variety in your schedule, mix and match them on different days, but make sure you have a regimen. Not the least because when you start to feel vulnerable, out of control, sad, lonely, and everything else and feel it spinning from healthy grieving into unhealthy rumination and dwelling, you have a list of solid things you can do right then in that moment, and also you can comfort yourself with the global and efficient strategy that you are currently applying to your life.

 

5) If you decide to try this strategy, after you have implemented it for awhile, look up, and realize what you have just done is some really good self-care.

 

It really sounds like the healthy intimacy you gave her was more than she could handle and I'm sorry for that! I think she was secretly becoming fearful and distancing. People have suggested anxious attachment and/or avoidant attachment, but they have not discussed the fourth attachment style, and that could be at play here. I wonder if it is possible that she had the anxious-avoidant style of attachment (imagine zero trust in others combined with the low self-esteem causing strong desire for validating relationships and the constant push-pull between feeling safer in complete relational avoidance with an overwhelming desire for that which you fear)?

 

 

 

 

Two thoughtful, empathetic posts together this morning! Thank you, Onnanoko and Abhainn –– much appreciated and helpful.

 

I remember expressing to my gf just a week or two before the blowup that I felt like I had significantly integrated her person into my being. I had worked through the vulnerability anxiety and trusted her implicitly. I would never have guessed that we were approaching the end. Sometimes I wonder if my intimacy was too much for her to handle, if it induced anxiety, or if she was just overwhelmed. She often said that what we shared in terms of openness and communication was something she'd never had before, and that she valued it greatly. But that must not have actually been the case on some level despite the affirmations. I wonder if while I was going deeper and becoming more committed and comfortable, that she was secretly becoming fearful and distancing.

 

Yes, I can relate to what you say about the research and merging of personalities. But we also had appropriate boundaries I think. We weren't enmeshed, or at least I don't believe so. But in hindsight, one of my theories is that she required perfect mirroring, and that fateful night what happened was that I cracked the mirror by reacting in a way that was inconsistent with her values and identity.

 

So yes, I get that I need to reestablish myself as an individual, non-integrated personality and embrace my separateness emotionally, physically and symbolically. I don't have a strategy all worked out. I am hurt and lonely and I just want to be soothed. I need connection and human touch. Those feelings keep me longing for her to come back, even though I know cognitively that it's over. I guess I need to develop a plan. My life has become smaller over the past several years. This relationship was lifting me up again and I invested heavily in our shared, together identity. I do need to redevelop my personal mojo.

 

EDIT: Editing for one more question. how do you (concretely with real action in the real world, don't get me wrong, I love abstraction but we are not just minds in space, we are physical bodies who need actual action sometimes) soothe yourself when you feel like you need soothing?

Edited February 25, 2017 by Abhainn

[salparadise]

Forgive me, in no way was I suggesting that the two of you were unhealthfully enmeshed. I sometimes have the tendency to assume that some things are obvious that are not necessarily so.

 

No problem, I was just clarifying. I do know what enmeshed is because my ex-wife had that issu and other cluster b traits. This relationship felt healthy at the time, and even in retrospect it seems healthy up until the breakup. But I also feel she was tentative. She must've known on some level that her dedication wasn't like mine, but still encouraging me. And then there's the perfect mirroring thing...

 

You clearly are very insightful to have recognized that you had integrated her (I would say each other, but I don't think that is what happened) into your identity.

 

I wonder what you mean by the part in parenthesis –– you think she was pretending? Please explain, I'm interested in what you think.

 

When you say that you need to develop a plan, I can hear that you are thinking about the plan you need to make, the change, I guess you can say. That you recognize you are at a place where you need to be and are probably considering alternatives for how to enact that change. And from the hesitation that is there too in your statement, I'm wondering if you're evaluating how much strength and energy it will take, and whether in the aftermath of this you have that quite yet?

 

It will take a little bit to do, and a little bit of continuing self-control, but since the hope is that you'd be choosing positive stuff for the most case that you like to do, it won't feel like too much of a burden and can be a solace.

 

I haven't consciously analyzed it that much. I feel it intuitively... where I am, the direction in which I need to lean, etc. Yes, being deliberate about it takes a certain kind of resources, emotional energy, intention, that I don't have in abundance, but I'll get there.

 

 

 

Here is an example of how you might work out a strategy, that you can tailor to yourself, if you decide you want to, and have the strength and energy to. [...]

 

5) If you decide to try this strategy, after you have implemented it for awhile, look up, and realize what you have just done is some really good self-care.

 

Thanks for the examples. Yes, already doing a lot of that stuff, just not as deliberately as you present it. I agree that it's probably time to be more intentional with it.

 

It really sounds like the healthy intimacy you gave her was more than she could handle and I'm sorry for that! I think she was secretly becoming fearful and distancing. People have suggested anxious attachment and/or avoidant attachment, but they have not discussed the fourth attachment style, and that could be at play here. I wonder if it is possible that she had the anxious-avoidant style of attachment (imagine zero trust in others combined with the low self-esteem causing strong desire for validating relationships and the constant push-pull between feeling safer in complete relational avoidance with an overwhelming desire for that which you fear)?

 

Hmmm, I hadn't considered a fourth style (anxious-avoidant) but it could fit. She had admitted to being insecure about her ability to make good choices for herself, but then she'd turn right around and affirm our wonderful connection, love, dedication and all of that. She indicated that she wanted a life partner, enduring love, etc. I believed we were on that path, and I believed that the only obstacles were the ones we created in our minds because of insecurity. I felt that we had the foundation, and the tools to build the rest of it. I am such a romantic fool.

 

EDIT: Editing for one more question. how do you (concretely with real action in the real world, don't get me wrong, I love abstraction but we are not just minds in space, we are physical bodies who need actual action sometimes) soothe yourself when you feel like you need soothing?

 

I have been working on this, because need to sleep and it's really hard sometimes. Physically, I've found that (don't laugh) rubbing my upper arms and shoulders while mentally affirming love and acceptance for myself to be somewhat soothing. I can usually put my mind into a delta state by imagining sounds of waves and the warm water flowing over me, then receding taking with it all of my angst and worries.

 

I have a recording of the wave sounds designed to induce delta that I play through earbuds, and the sounds merge from one side to the other. This was given to me by a therapist-hypnotism guy. We tried hypnotism but I don't think I was able to reach the full trance, although I certainly entered an alternate state. So after using the recording for some time, I found I could do it just using my imagination along with intention and familiarity of the state.

 

I read and cook and do other things that feel good. I shot pool for an hour yesterday, walked for an hour, etc. These are all things that I have a strong connection with. Years ago I was into playing pool. I found that I could achieve 'flow' that way and it was absolutely magical. That game includes so many mental-emotional nuances (once you've achieved technical proficiency) it's crazy when it all comes together.

Edited February 26, 2017 by salparadise

[Trustyourgut]

Salparadise,

 

I am not your ex. I am a young minority woman living in the Midwest, who used to post on LS years ago. Perhaps you could ask the admin or mods to do an IP check, if that would give you a peace of mind. You and I got into an unfortunate altercation in 2013. Since it was a long time ago, you may not remember who exactly I am. Back in 2013, you also misjudged my character.

 

Look, I empathize with you talking about how you have had bad experiences with some women, and how you were involved with a cluster b personality. I can see how you're suspicious of me, but the fact is that I have nothing to do with your ex. If LS wasn't against posting personal information, I would be more than happy to share my identity with you as proof. am simply someone who remembered your actions in 2013, and felt like it would be helpful to share my perspective.

 

If you don't find my posts helpful or jiving with your values, I understand. Do what works for you. I certainly am not claiming to be the expert on you and your relationship. As a therapist, I will say that I see a lot of people in general making assumptions that aren't true. Sometimes, the facts have nothing to do with all of the interpretations we make in our head based on our life stories. I personally feel like asking for dating and relationship advice on forums is can be misleading, given that people portray their own biases and projections. People don't know for sure what your ex is thinking. The jobs only make guesses.

 

I also would like to add that if you're upset about her being a psychotherapist who broke up with you, therapists are also human like anyone else. I have met my fair share of therapists, who weren't nice people or who weren't rational in real life. Being a therapist doesn't make you a magical human being. They make mistakes like anyone else, and don't always act like therapists out of their job. It sounds like maybe she didn't know how to handle conflict in the way that you and others thought was best. As some here have said, perhaps you two weren't as compatible as you thought you were.

 

Who knows-she may reach out to you in the future. Infjs will walk away or door slam out of stress, only to later reconnect with the person to explain why they did what they didn't. I will acknowledge that this a flaw of the infj personality. We aren't the best with confrontation.

 

Anyways, this is my last post to you.

 

I really wish you all the best with everything, and hope that you can move on.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Trustyourgut

[Abhainn]

No problem, I was just clarifying. I do know what enmeshed is because my ex-wife had that issu and other cluster b traits. This relationship felt healthy at the time, and even in retrospect it seems healthy up until the breakup. But I also feel she was tentative. She must've known on some level that her dedication wasn't like mine, but still encouraging me. And then there's the perfect mirroring thing...

 

Something was missing, and we'll probably never know quite what. It sounds like from what you've said earlier and here that this does not feel the same as a Cluster B (I am sure you can imagine here the creative swear word I would insert here after my own Cluster B experience, and you probably have your own). She may have been too afraid to trust, she may have decided to board a flight to the seven earth like planets that they just discovered millions of light years away. We will never know completely and for sure. I think the question for you is how do you let go of the question and the need to know (which for you just seems really hard wired into who you are)?

 

I wonder what you mean by the part in parenthesis –– you think she was pretending? Please explain, I'm interested in what you think.

 

Whatever happened with her, it is clear that she wasn't able to, couldn't, or didn't allow herself to merge with you in the same way and trust her heart and identity with you in the same way. The reasons are obscure. I trust you when you say that it does feel different than a Cluster B (though the DSM really misses the mark if you look closely at the research, though I understand their reasoning for defining it thusly), I think once you've been through that, you are likely to recognize it, at least eventually if it happens again.

 

My gut leaning for a situation that I wasn't in for a person I never met, would be that the anxious-avoidant attachment style might be a good explanation. Why you never fought, could be because her anxiety and her fear of causing the relationship to end wouldn't let her. Her sudden end could have been caused by an increasing sense of impending reliance, interdependence, and the trust was too much and too scary to be able to rest in.

 

The disappearance and refusal to meet with you or communicate with you could very well be that she doesn't trust herself and the anxious side of her which needs that validation very badly not to succumb to another try and what she really really wants like a person on a desert dying of dehydration wants water, but to her it would feel very much like that water was filled with venous snakes and the endless dilemma between approach and avoid.

 

I guess too you have some choices about how or if you choose to interpret this. Maybe you could choose to let it go without placing an interpretation or label on it. Or perhaps you could sift through the many that you have come up with and have been given to find the one that seems to fit best and trust that one, as a way to put to bed that part of you that needs to know.

 

 

I haven't consciously analyzed it that much. I feel it intuitively... where I am, the direction in which I need to lean, etc. Yes, being deliberate about it takes a certain kind of resources, emotional energy, intention, that I don't have in abundance, but I'll get there.

 

Thanks for the examples. Yes, already doing a lot of that stuff, just not as deliberately as you present it. I agree that it's probably time to be more intentional with it.

 

Change of any type does require those things. And I'm with the authors of a book whose name I don't remember off the top of my head, but one of their first points in a really cool and remarkable little breakup handbook was that people always tell you to do "the work" after heartbreak. Like, your heart has just been broken in half, you are in a puddle on the floor, and now you're supposed to do all this work? Its enough to inspire anyone to head straight for the covers all day.

 

It sounds like you are in a place where you feel like you need to be more intentional with it, as you get the resources and energy to do it. And there is room for mercy. If you don't get it all in one day like you planned, its not the end of the world. If right now, the intuitive way you came to doing some of that stuff is what you can do and are ready for without overtaxing yourself right now, that is totally fine.

 

It sounds like you have a pretty wise mind with a strong heart that knows what you need, and that you're pretty good at listening to it.

 

 

 

Hmmm, I hadn't considered a fourth style (anxious-avoidant) but it could fit. She had admitted to being insecure about her ability to make good choices for herself, but then she'd turn right around and affirm our wonderful connection, love, dedication and all of that. She indicated that she wanted a life partner, enduring love, etc. I believed we were on that path, and I believed that the only obstacles were the ones we created in our minds because of insecurity. I felt that we had the foundation, and the tools to build the rest of it. I am such a romantic fool.

 

Oops, I kind of got into that one above already.

 

I know that you feel like a romantic fool right now, but I wonder if there's a way to reframe it? What I see, is someone who entered in to a relationship with a pretty healthy mindset (despite some previous scarring experiences and wounds) who was willing to allow himself to be vulnerable and trust in the love that he'd found. That may be a romantic, but certainly nobody could look at you and what you have written and the way you think about things and accuse you of being a fool. What would it be like to reframe yourself as an intelligent, strong romantic who has the strength of mind to trust even though he may be hurt in the end?

 

I have been working on this, because need to sleep and it's really hard sometimes. Physically, I've found that (don't laugh) rubbing my upper arms and shoulders while mentally affirming love and acceptance for myself to be somewhat soothing. I can usually put my mind into a delta state by imagining sounds of waves and the warm water flowing over me, then receding taking with it all of my angst and worries.

 

I have a recording of the wave sounds designed to induce delta that I play through earbuds, and the sounds merge from one side to the other. This was given to me by a therapist-hypnotism guy. We tried hypnotism but I don't think I was able to reach the full trance, although I certainly entered an alternate state. So after using the recording for some time, I found I could do it just using my imagination along with intention and familiarity of the state.

 

I read and cook and do other things that feel good. I shot pool for an hour yesterday, walked for an hour, etc. These are all things that I have a strong connection with. Years ago I was into playing pool. I found that I could achieve 'flow' that way and it was absolutely magical. That game includes so many mental-emotional nuances (once you've achieved technical proficiency) it's crazy when it all comes together.

 

That is incredibly awesome. Both that it works for you, and that you were willing to post this for others to see and read. I guarantee you that there are probably at least 10 other men who will read this (if not more) who do something similar and though they may not admit it, they probably feel better for knowing that another man does this sort of thing too, when he's by himself and needs soothing and reassurance. Or you could be poking a slight bit of fun at me, but given your admonition to not laugh, I don't think you are. And I want to commend the strength that I see in posting that so candidly.

 

I'm glad the waves and sounds work for you. I might recommend two phone apps (I know one already has been) Headspace and OMG I can meditate. Both of them start really introductory and at the beginning at least are free. You might try these, too to add to your toolbox.

 

And yes, I'm not good enough at pool to achieve any sort of flow, but I do experience it with other things that I do on a regular basis and it hands down the best feeling in the world (no, I don't get laid much. Shyness and social anxiety seem to be very good deterrents, lol).

 

So at this point it seems like you've really started to re stabilize after the intial breakup, are still pondering the depth and nature of the wounding way in which she left, and are trying to continue to reestablish your identity as an individual again.

 

what questions do you have? What do you need from us right now?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Abhainn

[Trustyourgut]

Excuse my typos in my previous post. It won't let me edit.

 

Anyways, salparadise-good luck! I hope the rest of your love journey treats you well.

[salparadise]

Salparadise,

 

I am not your ex. I am a young minority woman living in the Midwest, who used to post on LS years ago. Perhaps you could ask the admin or mods to do an IP check, if that would give you a peace of mind.

 

Actually, that has already happened. One of the Mods posted that we were not located near each other and put that theory to rest permanently.

 

You and I got into an unfortunate altercation in 2013. Since it was a long time ago, you may not remember who exactly I am. Back in 2013, you also misjudged my character.

 

I apologize, sincerely. I realize that in the past I sometimes used the forum as a place to vent frustrations, and was too quick to judge and criticize. I have made a conscious effort to not be that way, and since 2013 I have been volunteering with a mental health organization. I have received quite a bit of training and even train new volunteers (crisis intervention). This has been enlightening and transformative. I wish I could undo some past mistakes, but alias all I can do is apologize and try to pay it forward from here on.

 

If you don't find my posts helpful or jiving with your values, I understand. Do what works for you. I certainly am not claiming to be the expert on you and your relationship. As a therapist, I will say that I see a lot of people in general making assumptions that aren't true. Sometimes, the facts have nothing to do with all of the interpretations we make in our head based on our life stories.

 

Quite the contrary. I found your post helpful and it motivated me to delve into INFJ personality characteristics and the "door slam."

 

I also would like to add that if you're upset about her being a psychotherapist who broke up with you, therapists are also human like anyone else. I have met my fair share of therapists, who weren't nice people or who weren't rational in real life. Being a therapist doesn't make you a magical human being. They make mistakes like anyone else, and don't always act like therapists out of their job. It sounds like maybe she didn't know how to handle conflict in the way that you and others thought was best. As some here have said, perhaps you two weren't as compatible as you thought you were.

 

It doesn't bother me that she was/is a therapist. I didn't think about it much at all after we started getting to know each other well... although it did provide some rich erotic fantasy material from time to time (for us both). I was always aware of what I now realize were her INTJ/HSP traits though. But to me they were just her personality, not an organized classification kind of thing.

 

Who knows-she may reach out to you in the future. Infjs will walk away or door slam out of stress, only to later reconnect with the person to explain why they did what they didn't. I will acknowledge that this a flaw of the infj personality. We aren't the best with confrontation.

 

I can't imagine this happening now. I guess it's possible, but improbable. I wish she had found it within herself to engage with me before slamming the door shut. There is a binary quality to her reaction (on|off) and I'm sure it must be hard for her on some level, but nothing like the way I'm experiencing the breakup. We had so much synergy –– we understood each other so easily, we thought alike in so many ways, we enjoyed our solitude together, we were attuned to each other's wavelength. Maybe I'm idealizing, but I think it unlikely that either of us will find that kind of synergy if we interview a hundred new prospects... much less the mutual attraction, physical compatibility and all. For the life of me I can't understand how the connection was so tenuous on her side that she'd go dark over one little thing. Yes, I know it wasn't little to her, but still. From what I read INFJs are dedicated and will always try to resolve differences first.

 

I really wish you all the best with everything, and hope that you can move on.

 

Thank you. I appreciate you coming back and posting again.

Edited February 26, 2017 by salparadise

[lolablue17]

I have few words to say to your Ex:

 

Dear Ex:

What you did is ugly, cruel, extremely hurtful and unforgivable. In the scale of human behaviors it's one of the worst that exist. When you judge your ex bf out of this event, how would you want me to judge you by your continues disgrace?

 

Your bf, let's assume that he didn't behave well to a stranger. How come you treat a lot worse to the man you love? You should be a shamed of yourself. If you think that he doesn't deserve you after his so called behavior, well, you probably doesn't deserve to any decent man after your behavior.

 

You know, i'm not religious, but they say you go to hell according to the way you treat people. He may have made a simple mistake, so maybe he can get away from hell. But with what you did? Well, you will get the royal seat there.

 

He cannot fix his mistake, because it's already done to your moral judgement which is similar to a psychopath killer. But you, on the other hand, has still the chance to fix at least some of the damages you made. Call him, ask for his forgiveness, and pray that he will forgive you for what you did. I know I wouldn't.

Edited February 26, 2017 by lolablue17

[salparadise]

Thank you lolablue, it helps.

[EZNona]

Let's just say the shoe was on the other foot... if it had been her car that got towed and she had some little snippiness thing I wouldn't have given it a second thought. My response would've been to empathize with her for how it sucks to get your car towed. I'm sure that almost no one else would have gone nuclear over it. I was utterly surprised when she said what she was upset about, as well as the degree of the upset. For something like this, most people would've just commented on it without emotion if they felt the need to say anything at all.

 

And this is really all you need to know about your situation. I don't know how it has turned into so much more than this. Most people would be upset and frustrated with having their car being towed. it was one of those "Everything goes wrong" type of nights. Your reaction is of no surprise as far as I can tell.

 

I would have been upset and frustrated too! And you know what? My bf would be 100% empathetic and just as frustrated for me...and vice versa.

 

To me, your feelings and sarcastic moments were pretty tame and I am very much so against speaking poorly to staff or anyone for that matter....but your one eye roll and saying "you don't need my phone number" is such a non-factor in anything of life.

 

All the pearl clutching your GF did as a response was well over the top (as well as many of the posts on this thread) and I suspect that she was having doubts about you and the relationship and this made it easier to walk away.

 

And if that isn't the case and she really did feel threatened and unsafe in response to a few sarcastic words, then you're better off not being with someone like that.

 

You would be spend the rest of your relationship with her walking on eggshells trying not to offend and that is no way to live in a supposed strong relationship.

 

Enjoy the relationship for what it was and open your heart to greener pastures.

[salparadise]

Something was missing, and we'll probably never know quite what. [...] She may have been too afraid to trust, she may have decided to board a flight to the seven earth like planets that they just discovered millions of light years away. We will never know completely and for sure. I think the question for you is how do you let go of the question and the need to know (which for you just seems really hard wired into who you are)?

 

Whatever happened with her, it is clear that she wasn't able to, couldn't, or didn't allow herself to merge with you in the same way and trust her heart and identity with you in the same way. The reasons are obscure.

 

Right. Something was indeed missing, which is coming into clearer focus. I am starting to feel it intuitively, as well as deductively w/ process of elimination based on the incongruence of representations vs. behavior.

 

She texted last night. Gave nothing but platitudes. I responded by pointing out the incongruences and asking for the real explanation. I doubt that she will respond. This is the reason she refuses to talk –– the only logical explanation is that she had been faking it and she can't admit that. If she doesn't respond I may point it out rather starkly.

 

I have to leave for work now, so have to keep this one short.

[Under The Radar]

Sal,

 

My unsolicited advice would be to disengage from any and all communication with your ex.

 

I know you have questions for why she scrapped a 17 month relationship ...... that by all accounts was seemingly "perfect" ...... and then essentially ghosted.

 

Here's the thing though:

 

If you hear back from her it is likely to be more platitudes and efforts to assuage any guilt she may be feeling.

 

I don't think her reaching out to you was for pure empathetic and altruistic purposes. If it was for those reasons, and she truly cared about your emotional well being, she would have handled the breakup with kindness ...... with compassion ...... with sensitivity. A healthy person, let alone an HSP, would not be on Ok Cupid within days of a heartfelt breakup. That was an act of selfishness, not selflessness.

 

If you continue some sort of dialogue it is unlikely you'll ever get the explanation you are seeking. The result will be more akin to partial truths, blame shifting, or simply silence ...... falling off the grid on you again.

 

Even if she reached out with an apology and begged for reconciliation ...... to give the relationship another try ...... could you ever fully trust her again? Your anxiety would be through the roof always wondering when the hammer was going to drop.

 

I do understand and respect your motives for communicating with her, but strongly believe at best it will be a vicious game of 52 pickup. I doubt you will get the closure you are seeking or deserve through her. I believe NC is an important tool in your recovery given her treatment of you a month ago.

 

Nevertheless, having stated my opinion, I support your choice in the end. You need to do what you think is best for your healing. I only write these words as a concerned friend who doesn't want to see your pain compounded any further.

[Abhainn]

Sal,

 

My unsolicited advice would be to disengage from any and all communication with your ex.

 

I know you have questions for why she scrapped a 17 month relationship ...... that by all accounts was seemingly "perfect" ...... and then essentially ghosted.

 

Here's the thing though:

 

If you hear back from her it is likely to be more platitudes and efforts to assuage any guilt she may be feeling.

 

I don't think her reaching out to you was for pure empathetic and altruistic purposes. If it was for those reasons, and she truly cared about your emotional well being, she would have handled the breakup with kindness ...... with compassion ...... with sensitivity. A healthy person, let alone an HSP, would not be on Ok Cupid within days of a heartfelt breakup. That was an act of selfishness, not selflessness.

 

If you continue some sort of dialogue it is unlikely you'll ever get the explanation you are seeking. The result will be more akin to partial truths, blame shifting, or simply silence ...... falling off the grid on you again.

 

Even if she reached out with an apology and begged for reconciliation ...... to give the relationship another try ...... could you ever fully trust her again? Your anxiety would be through the roof always wondering when the hammer was going to drop.

 

I do understand and respect your motives for communicating with her, but strongly believe at best it will be a vicious game of 52 pickup. I doubt you will get the closure you are seeking or deserve through her. I believe NC is an important tool in your recovery given her treatment of you a month ago.

 

Nevertheless, having stated my opinion, I support your choice in the end. You need to do what you think is best for your healing. I only write these words as a concerned friend who doesn't want to see your pain compounded any further.

 

I have to agree with this poster, Sal.

 

If you need to, write as much here as you need to about the reasons why you you want to contact her, and why you want her to contact you, what you would want to gain from it (which you have spoken of), and what you would hope it would do for your healing. Write us here as you would to her if you could even. Whatever works best for you.

 

I know that in some ways, it would probably be more effective to simply draw you out and ask questions about your ambivalence in getting in contact with her. But here is where my totally human error comes in. As I've gotten to know you a little through our dialogue I really feel like saying that I think all contacting her, in the end, will do will set you back.

 

How do you feel now for having engaged with her?

 

(and please forgive me if my reply is slow, I have a test in a few hours, a paper due tomorrow, and a test on Thursday as well--but stopped in while I had a few minutes for a break).

[salparadise]

Here's the thing though:

 

If you hear back from her it is likely to be more platitudes and efforts to assuage any guilt she may be feeling.

 

I don't think her reaching out to you was for pure empathetic and altruistic purposes. If it was for those reasons, and she truly cared about your emotional well being, she would have handled the breakup with kindness ...... with compassion ...... with sensitivity. A healthy person, let alone an HSP, would not be on Ok Cupid within days of a heartfelt breakup. That was an act of selfishness, not selflessness.

 

If you continue some sort of dialogue it is unlikely you'll ever get the explanation you are seeking. The result will be more akin to partial truths, blame shifting, or simply silence ...... falling off the grid on you again.

 

Even if she reached out with an apology and begged for reconciliation ...... to give the relationship another try ...... could you ever fully trust her again? Your anxiety would be through the roof always wondering when the hammer was going to drop.

 

I have to agree with this poster, Sal.

 

How do you feel now for having engaged with her?

 

 

You're both absolutely right. There will be no sweet ending, no satisfactory answer, empathy or compassion. She just doubles down on her narrative. It pisses her off that I ask difficult questions, even though worded respectfully. She's not the woman I thought I knew. None of it makes rational sense.

 

Actually, I feel better now having engaged and confirmed that this is the case. Even though I can't say exactly what brought her to this point, I know the bridges are burned and there's no more expectation. I'm free to create a narrative that works for me, just as she did.

 

The difference is that I am sad and hurt, while she is angry and self-righteous. She doesn't see dumping via text and refusing to talk as unacceptable if that's what she wants. She feels entitled to whatever she wants, no further discussion.

 

So NC it will be. I think the ineffective interactions did help with closure, just not the type I would've hoped for. It is what it is.

[PrettyEmily77]

So NC it will be. I think the ineffective interactions did help with closure, just not the type I would've hoped for. It is what it is.

 

Just popped in for an update - looks like you're on the right track to recovery, Sal. The pain and hurt will subside with time, and so will the need to create a narrative. Like you say, it is what it is and soon enough, she will become this woman from your past you once had feelings for.

[salparadise]

As far as that narrative goes, it's obvious, undeniable that she has underlying anger and resentment issues that I somehow managed to avoid for a very long time. She had alluded a couple of times to a side of her that I didn't know. Well, I do now. I'm guessing that she had started checking out a few months ago and this was just the trigger that set it off. She didn't go from full-in to full-out in the blink of an eye. She is wound tight, and not nearly as self-aware as one might expect. I treated her well and did everything I could to make it real and sustainable. I have no regrets. There's nothing I could have done differently overall, and even if I had avoided the catastrophe that night it would've been unleashed some other night. I hope the next person I fall for can be as authentic and open as I was with her. It's sad, but I expect that she'll repeat this cycle with the next guy and the one after that. it's how she's wired.

[marky00]

 

She texted last night. Gave nothing but platitudes. I responded by pointing out the incongruences and asking for the real explanation. I doubt that she will respond. This is the reason she refuses to talk –– the only logical explanation is that she had been faking it and she can't admit that. If she doesn't respond I may point it out rather starkly.

 

I have to leave for work now, so have to keep this one short.

 

 

Trust me on this when I tell you to not reply at all anymore.

 

 

I was dumped about as bad as it gets after a very long relationship so I know what it is like to have zero answers.

 

 

I have been through about 8 months NC and my ex still sends out the occasional feeler text (what some of us on LS call the "heat test", in other words them wanting to know how much we hate them).

 

 

I initially went down the road of semi-compliance hoping to maybe get at least some better closure but it was a complete waste of time.

 

 

It is still hard ignoring my Ex but here is the way I now see it and the way you will need to see it soon.

 

 

My ex gave me a some sort of brutal lesson. I had zero say and little understanding for why I received that lesson.

 

 

So now, she is receiving a SILENCE SANDWICH from me. This is her lesson and its looking like it will last a lifetime (because feeler texts will be immediately deleted and forgotten).

 

 

Remember a few posts back when I told you your ex would contact you soon. Trust me, I know how this story will go. DO NOT REPLY until something much more substantial arrives and then check back with us on LS.

 

 

Any time you respond (regardless of what you say), you ease her guilt. Every time, you dish out the SILENCE SANDWICH, her guilt grows and she gets zero validation to help her support her decision.

Edited February 28, 2017 by marky00