merrmeade Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 The question is, does it really matter? She's an all around horrendous and egoistic person. She might not have physical affairs. But she had one emotional affair after another and went about as far as she could with her videos and cheats without having things go physical. If anything the way she reacted to said boyfriends death, is even worse. The problems seem to in generally lie with her. She is building one fantasy after another, then happily living these fantasies out recklessly and without concern as to how it affects others. Involving your children into her fantasies and self indulgent just makes it all that much worse. These are things they do not need nor should they know it and seeing their mother behave in such ways towards other men cannot be good for them and how they perceive relationships. Kick her to the curb. There is nothing to save her. She wont change, possibly cant change. You will never again feel secure, you will never again know if she told you everything, if you found everything and if she isn't doing these things again. If she isn't poisoning and messing with your children. Whattt? Who are you to say it doesn't matter - to him? I don't think zh is even asking us whether to stay or whether to go - yet that's what everybody keeps addressing and telling him what to DO. I don't think he needs to DO anything final - except what he's doing, which is processing. He's putting together the pieces of his life with her that HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND FULLY before. He's beginning to understand her - and, therefore, their lives together - only now. The mind-blowing, dark, nasty, life-shattering secret that he started learning about when he grabbed her phone the first time was just the beginning. It's looks like an obsession but really it's necessary to get his sanity and judgment back. He's working, working, working through events and relationships that he just passed over the first time. Now, they all taken on new meaning. And as he learns so much he didn't know about her world, he's got to retell his own story with her with this new information. He's got to revisit the past and repair his memories to be closer to the truth. My husband graciously admitted to me one day that I understood more about what he'd done than he did. It was a compliment I wish I didn't deserve. I suspect you will be in the same position. But nevermind even my observation. You don't need to bother with the meta-analysis of what we and you are doing here or the exasperated advice. It's fine to use LS as a sounding board. IMO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author zombiehead Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 I was on the home pc making a packing list spread sheet for the up coming camping trip and I found that letter saved on the computer. Why would you write a letter to a dead exboyfriend who treated you badly and was unsucessful in life? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I was on the home pc making a packing list spread sheet for the up coming camping trip and I found that letter saved on the computer. Why would you write a letter to a dead exboyfriend who treated you badly and was unsucessful in life? That is the question with a lot of things your wife has done. Why? Who would do something like this? I have no idea... It's is very strange and really disturbing. Especially when you say that she was talking with your daughter about him. Your wife has the emotional maturity, self control, and boundaries of a teen... Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I was on the home pc making a packing list spread sheet for the up coming camping trip and I found that letter saved on the computer. Why would you write a letter to a dead exboyfriend who treated you badly and was unsucessful in life? How's the therapy going, zh? This is a question for the therapist. I'd venture that it's something like "unfinished business." They broke up and most breakups leave much unfinished. Rarely is there ever a well-planned closure without unfinished business. I had a few; my daughter, a lot more; saw plenty on TV and movies. I'd venture it's some kind of closure she needed. Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Your wife has the emotional maturity, self control, and boundaries of a teen... But this summation: Totally. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Has or does your wife do any drugs or drinking regularly? She does seem emotionally stunted - a tell tale sign of a person who has done drinking and/or drugs (which could include prescription medicine). Please answer - it's an important factor. Link to post Share on other sites
WilyWill Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Took me a long time to realize it, but "bad boys" who are aloof and uncaring are exciting and inspire passion in many (if not all) women. The trustworthy guy who's always kind and takes care of the children is something of a bore. Your wife's ex is desirable not in spite of his jerkiness, but because of it. Same with all the scoundrels she met online. Your wife has a bad case of this affliction. Nice guys really do finish last. But that doesn't release us of our obligation to continue being nice guys. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Took me a long time to realize it, but "bad boys" who are aloof and uncaring are exciting and inspire passion in many (if not all) women. The trustworthy guy who's always kind and takes care of the children is something of a bore. Your wife's ex is desirable not in spite of his jerkiness, but because of it. Same with all the scoundrels she met online. Your wife has a bad case of this affliction. Nice guys really do finish last. But that doesn't release us of our obligation to continue being nice guys. Perhaps for some women - definitely not all. Link to post Share on other sites
Author zombiehead Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) What is attractive about an unemployed middle aged drunk living with his mother? Doesn't matter he was killed by a car walking home from a bar. Edited July 2, 2017 by zombiehead Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Why don't you ask your wife? Why are you torturing yourself this way? It makes no sense to anyone. Your wife likes to live in fantasy. Perhaps, she has built a fantasy around him and remembered him as the love of her life... a high school sweetheart who, had circumstances been different, would have been the love of her life. The only person who could possibly explain it, is your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Maraud3r Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Why don't you ask your wife? Why are you torturing yourself this way? Actually, he is letting his wife torture him in this way. At this point it's just him ranting, all decisions seem to be made and this relationship appears to be going to continue exactly as it has. With her walking all over him. As for "building a fantasy around him", I agree with that. She seems to be doing that a lot. She seems to pretty much just live on social media and fantasies. The way she acted while visiting her parents make it feel as if real life and her family aswell as their needs and feelings are a secondary concern, if at all. Link to post Share on other sites
usa1ah Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 The thing that I find most disturbing in the letter is that she told your kids about him. Really, wth was she thinking involving the kids with a past BF that they never knew. Her actions with stopping at the grave show that she was in love with the idea she had of her ex bf. Might not be realistic to who he was when he died but who he was when they were together. I kind of agree with your statement that she settled with you. I believe she loves and cares for you but she is not in love with you. I believe emotional affairs are more harmful then physical affairs. It shows that the cheating spouse is disconnecting form the betrayed one or has never really been connected to being with. The more your find and share with us has caused a mind shift with me at least. I was at first thinking forgive forget and move on with life with some counseling. I'm no longer under that impression. I see with what you have related with us recently that this is far more a problem then was ever realized. Next counseling session, go with your wife. Make out a a list to give to the counselor if everything you know in order the best you can. Then then give your wife the chance to say she didn't mean any of it then in front of the counselor. I am starting to agree that she was never in love with you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Just a Guy Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hi Folks, quite frankly this is a saga that is going to go on relentlessly. One thing I am clear about and that is that ZH is not going to leave his wife come hell or high water. He has given enough examples in the past of having overcome his disgust of his wife's conduct and actions and whatever new comes up or is revealed will share the same fate. He seems like one of those old vinyl records where one of the grooves gets damaged and the needle keeps returning back to it with the same line in the song being repeated over and over again. I had said in an earlier post that ZH would keep releasing some new information every now and then to keep the good folk on here engaged. As far as I am concerned he is following that script to a T. If you stick around long enough you will be rewarded with another tid bit of information after a while so that he can continue with his saga and garner the sympathy of the folks on this forum. He is tone deaf to any advice that would help him move on. I know that there are many posters here who genuinely relate to his dilemma. However, that is a tribute to their kindness and empathy for a fellow betrayed spouse. I am not so sure ZH really deserves their kindness and sympathy because of his complete indifference to helpful advice given so freely by so many well meaning people. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that ZH's wife is not wife material and probably never has been. For ZH to obdurately stick around after she has given him enough proof of her complete lack of empathy for him and her willingness to change is unfathomable. As they say " You cannot get a leopard to change it's spots". ZH's wife is not going to change because she does not want to or is completely incapable of doing so. So I guess this saga will go on and on. Warm wishes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hi Folks, quite frankly this is a saga that is going to go on relentlessly. One thing I am clear about and that is that ZH is not going to leave his wife come hell or high water. He has given enough examples in the past of having overcome his disgust of his wife's conduct and actions and whatever new comes up or is revealed will share the same fate. He seems like one of those old vinyl records where one of the grooves gets damaged and the needle keeps returning back to it with the same line in the song being repeated over and over again. I had said in an earlier post that ZH would keep releasing some new information every now and then to keep the good folk on here engaged. As far as I am concerned he is following that script to a T. If you stick around long enough you will be rewarded with another tid bit of information after a while so that he can continue with his saga and garner the sympathy of the folks on this forum. He is tone deaf to any advice that would help him move on. I know that there are many posters here who genuinely relate to his dilemma. However, that is a tribute to their kindness and empathy for a fellow betrayed spouse. I am not so sure ZH really deserves their kindness and sympathy because of his complete indifference to helpful advice given so freely by so many well meaning people. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that ZH's wife is not wife material and probably never has been. For ZH to obdurately stick around after she has given him enough proof of her complete lack of empathy for him and her willingness to change is unfathomable. As they say " You cannot get a leopard to change it's spots". ZH's wife is not going to change because she does not want to or is completely incapable of doing so. So I guess this saga will go on and on. Warm wishes. and i agree with everything you said. Which is why i have said some of the things i have in this on going saga. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kgcolonel Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 ZH, I have intentionally be silent here for the most part but wanted to provide you with a new perspective. It appears that while you're planning on staying with her. I get what she did was incredibly painful as well as anything else that could be said negative about her actions. That said, what you are doing now, "holding onto the mementos" will provide you nothing but prolonged pain and agony. YOU need to get off the fence, decide to R or D and commit to that. Constantly reviewing, searching etc is nothing more that holding onto the misery of what she did and will prevent you from healing. You should either let go of what she did and move on to R or hold onto it and D her....where you are now is pergatory and you can't move forward or backward in this position. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 ZH, I have intentionally be silent here for the most part but wanted to provide you with a new perspective. It appears that while you're planning on staying with her. I get what she did was incredibly painful as well as anything else that could be said negative about her actions. That said, what you are doing now, "holding onto the mementos" will provide you nothing but prolonged pain and agony. YOU need to get off the fence, decide to R or D and commit to that. Constantly reviewing, searching etc is nothing more that holding onto the misery of what she did and will prevent you from healing. You should either let go of what she did and move on to R or hold onto it and D her....where you are now is pergatory and you can't move forward or backward in this position. Exactly. When my mom passed away, the counsellor advised me not to go back and relive the events that lead to her tragic passing. She said by doing that, your brain hard wires the events, leading to a kind of PTSD. While, I think it's important to process what happened and rather unreasonable and impossible to think that you can never think about the event, I do believe that there is merit to the fact that you can retraumatize yourself by getting stuck in that place, reliving the events, and searching for answers, again, and again, and again... When I read ZH posts, it is like a broken record that constantly comes back to the skip in the record. And yes, it hasn't been that long... And yes, you do need to do some searching and spend some time thinking about it to process what has happened. But, the way you are processing this betrayal seems really, really unhealthy and I hope your counsellor can help you to find a better way to cope and move forward. Because, I do believe that you have chosen to stay with your wife - I just don't believe that you have truly committed to that decision yet. And absolutely, you continue to completely disregard the good advice that has been provided by people on this board. ZH continues to process the event in his own way which is fine... as long as you find a healthy way to deal with the betrayal and move forward. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I think ZH isn't reading anything we suggest. Maybe he's so used to being her victim he can't break away from that familiar role he plays? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 ZH, recovery cannot happen with you recalling every thing that your WW did in her affair. Doing so will never let those memories fade allowing you to heal and recover the feelings that you had for your WW. This is why once the BH has all the facts, has all of his questions answered nothing further positive can be gained talking about what one's WW did during an affair. It is normal to trigger. Triggers cannot be stopped now. Though with time they happen farther apart and for shorter durations. Then one day be for a BH realizes the next trigger happens that it was such a long time ago that he cannot remember when he had his last trigger. And, this trigger will pass as fast as he just felt the trigger. In a second things will be back on track. Stop obsessing about your triggers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Stop obsessing about your triggers. This is it, exactly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
usa1ah Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I don't see someone triggering as a obsession. We all have a different tolerance to anything in life, not just dealing with a cheating partner. Some people will just shrug their shoulders and ask it they had fun. Others will walk out on this news and never look back. The rest are somewhere in between. So you saying to stop obsessing over your triggers is pointless. People can't just turn thing that hurt off like a switch. It is easy to say stop obsessing but not so to stop. Depending on ones beliefs and up bringing will dictate whether one can stop triggering or not. ZH has a pretty good set of rules of what is right and what is wrong for his life. Just because he is triggering doesn't make him less of a man. It shows that his wife has severely damaged their marriage and relationship. Maybe beyond the point that ZH is able to stay with her. That is his decision to make in the near future. The reason he keeps triggering and having problems is because every time he turns around it is something new being disclosed. Or her actions do not match what she says. Just like their son being molested by the older boy at the pool party they were at and her wanting to stay and party on after ZH told her what had happened. What mother would not at the very least comfort their child. ZH's wife has serious issues with herself. The biggest one I'm starting to think is that she was never in love with ZH. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 The reason he keeps triggering and having problems is because every time he turns around it is something new being disclosed. Or her actions do not match what she says. Just like their son being molested by the older boy at the pool party they were at and her wanting to stay and party on after ZH told her what had happened. What mother would not at the very least comfort their child. ZH's wife has serious issues with herself. The biggest one I'm starting to think is that she was never in love with ZH. Indeed, there continue to new things that happen that trigger the hurt. Her actions do not match what she says. And that is a problem. I'm curious, how can you say that she never loved her husband? That is a huge assumption to make and it's a devastating thought. I just don't understand how a stranger on the Internet can tell ZH that his wife never really loved him. She is so messed up - her thinking, her judgment, her decisions are so messed up - I'm not even sure that she knows what she feels or what she wants. I'd like to think that loves or at least has loved ZH - in her own very selfish and immature way, Link to post Share on other sites
usa1ah Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Indeed, there continue to new things that happen that trigger the hurt. Her actions do not match what she says. And that is a problem. I'm curious, how can you say that she never loved her husband? That is a huge assumption to make and it's a devastating thought. I just don't understand how a stranger on the Internet can tell ZH that his wife never really loved him. She is so messed up - her thinking, her judgment, her decisions are so messed up - I'm not even sure that she knows what she feels or what she wants. I'd like to think that loves or at least has loved ZH - in her own very selfish and immature way, Never said she doesn't love him in a way, I said she is not "in love with him". Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Never said she doesn't love him in a way, I said she is not "in love with him". none of us know that...she may very well love him in her own way...and it may not be the way we think it should be. It doesn't really even matter...what matters is that ZH has decided that she is worth keeping. and herein lies my issue. If you know your spouse is all kinds of messed up...but you have made the decision to remain married...then tell me what good it is to continually come on line and tell strangers all the bad things about her knowing they are going to give you advice you disagree with? How is this healthy? What good does it do? Look some folks told my husband to divorce me...some folks said i was showing remorse by my actions. There came a time when my husband stopped posting becasue it did not matter anymore. He made his decision and it really did not matter what anyone else thought. ZH seems to enjoy revealing NEW bad things about his wife for everyone to discuss...he knows people are going to tell him how terrible she is... whats the point? If he has made his decision that he loves her and it doesn't matter what she has done...then why come here to stir people up? This is the part i do not understand 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I do have to jump in here... I do have to wonder about ZH's wife's love for him. Not that she never did but that it was not the love. The love that consumes you type of love. The way that she romanticized her first love, the 40 YO drunk loser. I relate some of that to my situation with my STBXW. Now, no man ever loved a woman more that I loved her. I took her back after 2 affairs, like a fool, I eventually was going to be able to forgive her for her drug addiction that went on for 20 years (Hidden BTW). But I finally woke up and understood that she never really loved me. She never respected me, even though no one was more worth of respect than me at that time. I mean I was super dad, super husband and super lover. What more could any woman want. She never went without anything, ever. The funniest thing is when I make the statement to my kids that mom never loved or respected me, they all shake their heads Yes. Everyone knew but me, how does that happen. I must have just been in a complete state of denial for years and years. I am not saying that ZH's wife is as bad as mine... But I do wonder???? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 ZH, Please ignore those saying to get over it, forgive her and move on. I'm inclined to believe that she found you to be a good, reliable, kind and loving man. The letter to her Ex kind of indicates that. Showing his picture to your daughter, is extremely disrespectful in my opinion. Your wife has shown a string of awful choices. I don't know if you'll ever be truly happy with her again. I think perhaps some space between in the form of a separation might help you. I think this has been said before, but your wife needs a job. She had too much time on her hands. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts