nude pics red flag??

[Mrs. John Adams]

Forgiveness seems impossible. R is hard because you stay with the source of your pain. Can you heal.when you are trying to R and not ready to forgive. I believe she is finally beginning to get it. The other night when we discussed the letter she wrote to the deceased ex bf back.in 2014 that I.just discovered we also discussed my mind movies in detail and she had the look in her eye of horror that I.had this images of what she was doing in my mind.

 

Forgiveness and remorse are very linked....until she shows you remorse...and you once again feel safe in the relationship...it will be hard to forgive her.

 

she may never give you the remorse you need to forgive her...so you will have to decide...if she is capable of making you feel safe without remorse

[zombiehead]

It seems she may not be capable of the remorse I need. From my viewpoint it could be that she is more remorseful about getting caught than she is that she caused me pain. I did see a glimpse that she might be understanding what she has done when I explained the mind movies I have to battle daily. I told her that I have images in my mind of her having online sex with these men while I'm at work and our kids are at school, and that I picture her talking dirty over skype video and it did seem like she looked horrified that I had these thoughts. She believes that I can just simply think happy thoughts and that I shouldn't dwell on the mind movies and her betrayal. Easier said than done. She says to me, "that's what I do, I don't dwell on bad stuff if I did I would be depressed all day." However I gave her a clear detailed picture of my mind movies and I could see in her eyes that she understood and felt the horror I'm dealing with. She doesn't apologize unless I talk about the affair, I wish she would bring it up herself, on her own come up and tell me she is sorry. It's like she only says she sorry when I discuss it with her. I guess people who cheat want to avoid talking about it so apologizing on her own would be bring it up. If I was the cheater I would be jumping through hoops, apologizing on my own, asking how I can make it up, and she has done NONE of that.

Edited July 5, 2017 by zombiehead

[BluesPower]

It seems she may not be capable of the remorse I need. From my viewpoint it could be that she is more remorseful about getting caught than she is that she caused me pain. I did see a glimpse that she might be understanding what she has done when I explained the mind movies I have to battle daily. I told her that I have images in my mind of her having online sex with these men while I'm at work and our kids are at school, and that I picture her talking dirty over skype video and it did seem like she looked horrified that I had these thoughts. She believes that I can just simply think happy thoughts and that I shouldn't dwell on the mind movies and her betrayal. Easier said than done. She says to me, "that's what I do, I don't dwell on bad stuff if I did I would be depressed all day." However I gave her a clear detailed picture of my mind movies and I could see in her eyes that she understood and felt the horror I'm dealing with. She doesn't apologize unless I talk about the affair, I wish she would bring it up herself, on her own come up and tell me she is sorry. It's like she only says she sorry when I discuss it with her. I guess people who cheat want to avoid talking about it so apologizing on her own would be bring it up. If I was the cheater I would be jumping through hoops, apologizing on my own, asking how I can make it up, and she has done NONE of that.

 

 

That may be the final issue... right there.

 

She may never be truly remorseful for what she has done. It is one of the main things that ended my marriage. And not just for her affairs.

 

I think, and I am thinking you really need to ask her this question, Does she believe that what she did is not really a big deal. I have thought this all along.

 

So, if you have not already, sit her down and calmly ask her, "Do you think what you did was a wrong thing to do? Do you understand that to me it is the same as you hooking up with guys in our bedroom while I am at work?"

 

Ask her those questions and let her answer no matter how long it takes. Just sit there and wait for an answer.

 

If she is unable to give you an articulate answer, way more than yes or no, then I don't know if she will ever understand.

 

And if you could answer this question, you gave her a polygraph and she passed it about physically cheating. I am thinking that that happened early on. Is that correct?

 

Try to hang in there...

[BaileyB]

Your wife's behavior - her impulse control, her awareness of consequences, her ability to take responsibility for the decisions she makes, her judgment - is that of a teenage girl. Of course, her ability to show remorse and understand empathy is in keeping with her emotional development.

 

As a teen is self centred and struggles to understand the feelings and thinking of another person, so does your wife. She got caught and she is embarrassed, and she would prefer not to think about it. By not talking and avoiding the subject, she doesn't have think about the consequences of her actions (the hurt she caused you), in much the same way that a child avoids dealing with the consequences of their behavior.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BaileyB

[road]

It seems she may not be capable of the remorse I need. From my viewpoint it could be that she is more remorseful about getting caught than she is that she caused me pain. I did see a glimpse that she might be understanding what she has done when I explained the mind movies I have to battle daily. I told her that I have images in my mind of her having online sex with these men while I'm at work and our kids are at school, and that I picture her talking dirty over skype video and it did seem like she looked horrified that I had these thoughts. She believes that I can just simply think happy thoughts and that I shouldn't dwell on the mind movies and her betrayal. Easier said than done. She says to me, "that's what I do, I don't dwell on bad stuff if I did I would be depressed all day." However I gave her a clear detailed picture of my mind movies and I could see in her eyes that she understood and felt the horror I'm dealing with. She doesn't apologize unless I talk about the affair, I wish she would bring it up herself, on her own come up and tell me she is sorry. It's like she only says she sorry when I discuss it with her. I guess people who cheat want to avoid talking about it so apologizing on her own would be bring it up. If I was the cheater I would be jumping through hoops, apologizing on my own, asking how I can make it up, and she has done NONE of that.

 

Dr Harley, has found that many WW's do not show remorse yet they

are still capable to recover their marriage, and have a more loving and

better marriage after the affair. It is in the way a woman's mind works.

 

Next the highlighted text:

 

This is your WW's way of being remorseful, she does not relive the

good times she had during her affair. Instead she just shuts them

down. Moving forward being a good wife.

 

A BS can not make the WS feel or react the way that they want

the WS to do. Her response is to shut down those memories for

they are bad ones better forgotten.

 

You refuse to forget them. You dwell on them every day.

It is one thing to trigger and let the trigger fade.

 

Ok to ask how to not trigger.

 

Purposefully to post on her gripping about your triggers is just

you keeping them fresh in your mind instead of fading with time.

[BluesPower]

Dr Harley, has found that many WW's do not show remorse yet they

are still capable to recover their marriage, and have a more loving and

better marriage after the affair. It is in the way a woman's mind works.

 

Next the highlighted text:

 

This is your WW's way of being remorseful, she does not relive the

good times she had during her affair. Instead she just shuts them

down. Moving forward being a good wife.

 

A BS can not make the WS feel or react the way that they want

the WS to do. Her response is to shut down those memories for

they are bad ones better forgotten.

 

You refuse to forget them. You dwell on them every day.

It is one thing to trigger and let the trigger fade.

 

Ok to ask how to not trigger.

 

Purposefully to post on her gripping about your triggers is just

you keeping them fresh in your mind instead of fading with time.

 

Road, I am not sure that I understand your point. OR this is one of the few times that we disagree.

 

That excerpt sounds to me like the kind of drivel that I was and have been talking about. Unless I am taking it out of context.

 

For me, and I think most people, the BS drives the bus and should. The WS comes clean and get their selves together or they are gone. But then that is just me.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

It seems she may not be capable of the remorse I need. From my viewpoint it could be that she is more remorseful about getting caught than she is that she caused me pain. I did see a glimpse that she might be understanding what she has done when I explained the mind movies I have to battle daily. I told her that I have images in my mind of her having online sex with these men while I'm at work and our kids are at school, and that I picture her talking dirty over skype video and it did seem like she looked horrified that I had these thoughts.

 

A WS will never fully grasp the full damage that they have caused to the BS. If that is your expectation, then you will be disappointed.

 

She believes that I can just simply think happy thoughts and that I shouldn't dwell on the mind movies and her betrayal. Easier said than done. She says to me, "that's what I do, I don't dwell on bad stuff if I did I would be depressed all day." However I gave her a clear detailed picture of my mind movies and I could see in her eyes that she understood and felt the horror I'm dealing with. She doesn't apologize unless I talk about the affair, I wish she would bring it up herself, on her own come up and tell me she is sorry. It's like she only says she sorry when I discuss it with her. I guess people who cheat want to avoid talking about it so apologizing on her own would be bring it up. If I was the cheater I would be jumping through hoops, apologizing on my own, asking how I can make it up, and she has done NONE of that.

 

WS are 100x more adept to "letting go" and not thinking about it. The human brain is wired to forget the bad things we have done, but hold tightly to the injustices done to us.

 

It is my opinion that the WS can move on because during the affair they were in complete control of the situation and decisions; know all of the details, motives, etc that the BS does not have. It's easier to let go when the WS doesn't have any unanswered questions or lacks the full picture of what transpired. Meanwhile, the BS is blindsided with 100s of What's, Why's, and How Come's?

[Just a Guy]

Hi Merrmeade, thank you for responding to my post. I guess our perspectives may differ but that does not mean they are mutually exclusive. My basic point here has been that ZH had categorically stated that he was not going to divorce his wife as he did not want to split up his family. If that be his intention then reconciliation is a given. Again if that be true then what does he gain by repeatedly talking badly about her? I would think that the reconciliation package would also involve 'forgiving' her as without that the reconciliation would fail. Also, as I understand it forgiveness is for the BS and not the WS. By forgiving, ZH would be able to give up his resentment and anger towards his wife. As long as he holds on to these his pain will continue and he will keep torturing himself with all the negativity that accompanies these negative emotions. If he is not ready to forgive her he should NOT state that he is NOT going to divorce his WS. In an ironic way it is like having your cake and eating it too.

 

I also believe that if he continues with the way he expresses his feelings here he is soon going to reach a point of diminishing returns. As I said before he is regularly able to turn up something new to beat her with. I would not be surprised if he would come up with something new he discovers a couple of pages along his thread. However, the essence of his diatribe against his wife will be the same. What would be the point of flogging a dead horse? It would not suddenly jump up and start running.

 

Anyway, I guess I will take your advice and stop posting on this thread. This is going to go on for a long time. There was another guy by the moniker of No sleep whose thread petered out in a couple of pages. People just didn't seem interested in his problem. I wonder why? Warm wishes.

[zombiehead]

Thank you for the responses. She is stubborn, she rarely likes to admit when she is wrong or apologies. I learned this about her when were dating, I was attracted to that about her personality. I like a firecracker.

 

Another problem I'm having is the pride factor. R with a person that betrayed me hurts my pride. If we were dating it would be over immediately. Now with how long we have been together and kids and the future we have built it makes it more complicated to just walk away.

Edited July 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I'd like the evidence that this is the way the brain is wired.

 

Can you provide your link to support this as a fact?

 

It's human nature. We offer ourselves grace much easier than we offer it to others that have wronged us. If you can't see that in every day life, then there's not much else I can say to you.

[Maraud3r]

You should look up the sunk cost fallacy. It seems to be very much in effect here. You are effectively throwing good investment (time, money, feelings, commitment etc) after bad and already wasted in an attempt to recover them.

 

The reason she shows no remorse is that she appears to have none. She is NOT acting like a person who did anything wrong, you yourself said she just "doesn't think bad thoughts". She sees what she has done as a minor blip at best given how quickly she got over it and how little she seems to think it impacted you.

 

From your stories I don't think she looked horrified because you told her how you feel and she felt bad for you. The only times she reacted horrified and mortified were whenever there was a risk of consequences. Of you actually ending things and dumping her. Look through your own posts, unless you communicate to her that you see this as actual cheating she barely even react and might be outright petulant about it "firecracker". Only when you show you consider this a grave thing does she change her tune, however she gets quickly over it when there are no actual consequences.

 

I am still thinking you are wasting your time and effort here. And given how little remorse or change of behaviour she shows outside of actual threat of consequences. I doubt she will not relapse sooner than later.

Edited July 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

I think if you are waiting for her to show true remorse, you will be waiting for a long time and you will be sadly disappointed. Forgiveness, as they say, is a gift you give yourself... to make peace with what has happened, to let go of the pain, and to move forward again...

[zombiehead]

I just noticed there is a like button on this site. I went and looked at my facebook page, the last time I posted on my wall or page or whatever it is called was a Halloween pic of the twins in 2013. That shows how much I use it. Anyway I went on there to see how to recovery old direct messages that you can do on facebook and you can. I'm going to log on to my wife's facebook account that she deactivated, I believe you can just log on and it reactivates. I'm going to get her message history that retrieves deleted messages and see if she was doing it on facebook too.

[zombiehead]

Maraud3r, she said nearly those exact words, "this is just a minor bump in our marriage" "I have been good for nearly all of our marriage and this is just a small minor bump" "I never was physical with any one', "we have friends that stayed married after infidelity and they had "real" affairs and I never had a real one" blah blah blah.

 

For some reason her filming us together and sending it out doesen't hurt as badly as her one on one live skype sex dates. That hurts worse, that is what my major hurdle is. The skype sex dates were planned in advanced, she wanted him and he wanted her, she talked dirty to him live naked and pleasuring herself while he did the same. IMO that is just like a hook up in a hotel room, safer because it is online no STDs or other risks, but still it is same because the intent is the same.

 

She has offered to take a polygraph test without me bringing it up. Maybe I should take her up on that? It feels very awkward to have to hook your spouse up to a lie detector test, IMO if you are at that point in your marriage when that becomes necessary then your marriage is already over, it is dead.

[BaileyB]

I just noticed there is a like button on this site. I went and looked at my facebook page, the last time I posted on my wall or page or whatever it is called was a Halloween pic of the twins in 2013. That shows how much I use it. Anyway I went on there to see how to recovery old direct messages that you can do on facebook and you can. I'm going to log on to my wife's facebook account that she deactivated, I believe you can just log on and it reactivates. I'm going to get her message history that retrieves deleted messages and see if she was doing it on facebook too.

 

And your purpose in doing this is what exactly... You know what she has done. You certainly don't need any more proof.

 

What was the advice that has been given so many times? Oh yes - stop obsessing about your triggers!

 

Let's say that you do find messages, you will only trigger yourself yet again which will ensure that you stay in a place of pain and misery. You are your own worst enemy... But, by all means, if you must...

Edited July 5, 2017 by BaileyB

[usa1ah]

I guess people who cheat want to avoid talking about it so apologizing on her own would be bring it up. If I was the cheater I would be jumping through hoops, apologizing on my own, asking how I can make it up, and she has done NONE of that.

 

This is the difference in the way you love and care for your wife and the way she does you. It is not the same. This is what I have been trying to explain.

 

You could never have cheated on your wife because of the way you love and respect her and your marriage.

 

She did do this because she doesn't feel the same for you as you do for her.

 

Is it an addiction now, maybe. Only because she has done it for so long. It wasn't an addiction when she first started.

[usa1ah]

Thank you for the responses. She is stubborn, she rarely likes to admit when she is wrong or apologies. I learned this about her when were dating, I was attracted to that about her personality. I like a firecracker.

 

Another problem I'm having is the pride factor. R with a person that betrayed me hurts my pride. If we were dating it would be over immediately. Now with how long we have been together and kids and the future we have built it makes it more complicated to just walk away. I feel like damn I'm staying with an internet slut I'm such a loser with no self respect.

 

I don't think it is pride but self respect. How can any self respecting husband stay with a wife that has done this. This is where men lose or win their self respect. If they cave and give in with a rug sweep or they make the wayward do the hard work to save the relationship. The thing is when the wayward thinks they have done enough and can't understand why the BS is still hurting and feeling disconnected. Like you wife telling to just think happy thoughts when the mind moves are playing.

 

This is not completely a pride thing. I think you are trying to regain and maintain your self respect.

Edited July 5, 2017 by usa1ah

[BluesPower]

OK, now look...

 

If she has not had a polygraph you need to schedule one ASAP.

 

You don't know if she hooked up with someone or not. I thought you said you had done that and she passed so which is it?

 

Here is the deal, after all of this time, she, like I said, does not think what she did was a big deal.

 

So you either man up and have a real conversation about this stuff of when she actually cheats for real it may actually be you fault because you have provided her not consequences at all about what she has done. You are the one moping around the house pissed off and she is "not thinking bad thoughts".

 

Either divorce her or do your part of the work. Your part of the work includes sitting her down and COMMUNICATING WITH HER.

 

You have to tell her what you are saying here and you have to be assertive.

 

Mean while, you only have her word that she never got physical with anyone since you have been married. I actually doubt it to be frank.

 

Schedule the poly and find out what is actually going on or don't and file for divorce...

[merrmeade]

No it is not any of these things. He's trying to make sure he's got the whole truth since she (conveniently?) forgot to mention some things that,at the time, she also saw fit not to mention, eg, writing dead boyfriends and showing their picture to the kids.

 

Above all, he's needs to prove to himself she IS trustworthy. Once he's sure, he'll stop. Don't forget: He's uncovered more than one 'event' she didn't mention. Until he's sure he's checked all possibilities and sees that the status quo remains, he can't be sure she's all in, hiding nothing.

[merrmeade]

OK, now look...

 

If she has not had a polygraph you need to schedule one ASAP.

yes, wouldn't a polygraph convince? Also thought you said she had one...

[OneLov]

She is stubborn, she rarely likes to admit when she is wrong or apologies. I learned this about her when were dating, I was attracted to that about her personality. I like a firecracker.

 

Maraud3r, she said nearly those exact words, "this is just a minor bump in our marriage" "I have been good for nearly all of our marriage and this is just a small minor bump" "I never was physical with any one', "we have friends that stayed married after infidelity and they had "real" affairs and I never had a real one" blah blah blah.

 

This is part of the firecracker package. I am not trying to shame you or imply that you should've known. No, not at all. However, you will likely need an extraordinary amount of patience if you are committed to reconciliation and should adjust your expectations accordingly.

[road]

Road, I am not sure that I understand your point. OR this is one of the few times that we disagree.

 

That excerpt sounds to me like the kind of drivel that I was and have been talking about. Unless I am taking it out of context.

 

For me, and I think most people, the BS drives the bus and should. The WS comes clean and get their selves together or they are gone. But then that is just me.

 

You confuse showing remorse and telling the truth to the BH.

 

Two separate issues.

[BluesPower]

You confuse showing remorse and telling the truth to the BH.

 

Two separate issues.

 

Yes I get that...

 

I was including remorse, or at least trying to get there, with the getting them selves together part. Sorry, that was not clear.

[BaileyB]

Maraud3r, she said nearly those exact words, "this is just a minor bump in our marriage" "I have been good for nearly all of our marriage and this is just a small minor bump" "I never was physical with any one', "we have friends that stayed married after infidelity and they had "real" affairs and I never had a real one" blah blah blah.

 

She certainly knows how to minimize her behavior... "I have "been good" for "nearly" all of our marriage..." She is something else.

[BaileyB]

Above all, he's needs to prove to himself she IS trustworthy.

 

Is she really trustworthy? I don't think so.