nude pics red flag??

[Maraud3r]

Why don't you ask your wife? Why are you torturing yourself this way?

Actually, he is letting his wife torture him in this way. At this point it's just him ranting, all decisions seem to be made and this relationship appears to be going to continue exactly as it has. With her walking all over him.

 

As for "building a fantasy around him", I agree with that. She seems to be doing that a lot. She seems to pretty much just live on social media and fantasies. The way she acted while visiting her parents make it feel as if real life and her family aswell as their needs and feelings are a secondary concern, if at all.

[usa1ah]

The thing that I find most disturbing in the letter is that she told your kids about him. Really, wth was she thinking involving the kids with a past BF that they never knew. Her actions with stopping at the grave show that she was in love with the idea she had of her ex bf. Might not be realistic to who he was when he died but who he was when they were together.

 

I kind of agree with your statement that she settled with you. I believe she loves and cares for you but she is not in love with you.

 

I believe emotional affairs are more harmful then physical affairs. It shows that the cheating spouse is disconnecting form the betrayed one or has never really been connected to being with.

 

The more your find and share with us has caused a mind shift with me at least. I was at first thinking forgive forget and move on with life with some counseling. I'm no longer under that impression. I see with what you have related with us recently that this is far more a problem then was ever realized.

 

Next counseling session, go with your wife. Make out a a list to give to the counselor if everything you know in order the best you can. Then then give your wife the chance to say she didn't mean any of it then in front of the counselor.

 

I am starting to agree that she was never in love with you.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, quite frankly this is a saga that is going to go on relentlessly. One thing I am clear about and that is that ZH is not going to leave his wife come hell or high water. He has given enough examples in the past of having overcome his disgust of his wife's conduct and actions and whatever new comes up or is revealed will share the same fate. He seems like one of those old vinyl records where one of the grooves gets damaged and the needle keeps returning back to it with the same line in the song being repeated over and over again.

 

I had said in an earlier post that ZH would keep releasing some new information every now and then to keep the good folk on here engaged. As far as I am concerned he is following that script to a T. If you stick around long enough you will be rewarded with another tid bit of information after a while so that he can continue with his saga and garner the sympathy of the folks on this forum. He is tone deaf to any advice that would help him move on. I know that there are many posters here who genuinely relate to his dilemma. However, that is a tribute to their kindness and empathy for a fellow betrayed spouse. I am not so sure ZH really deserves their kindness and sympathy because of his complete indifference to helpful advice given so freely by so many well meaning people. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that ZH's wife is not wife material and probably never has been. For ZH to obdurately stick around after she has given him enough proof of her complete lack of empathy for him and her willingness to change is unfathomable. As they say " You cannot get a leopard to change it's spots". ZH's wife is not going to change because she does not want to or is completely incapable of doing so. So I guess this saga will go on and on. Warm wishes.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Hi Folks, quite frankly this is a saga that is going to go on relentlessly. One thing I am clear about and that is that ZH is not going to leave his wife come hell or high water. He has given enough examples in the past of having overcome his disgust of his wife's conduct and actions and whatever new comes up or is revealed will share the same fate. He seems like one of those old vinyl records where one of the grooves gets damaged and the needle keeps returning back to it with the same line in the song being repeated over and over again.

 

I had said in an earlier post that ZH would keep releasing some new information every now and then to keep the good folk on here engaged. As far as I am concerned he is following that script to a T. If you stick around long enough you will be rewarded with another tid bit of information after a while so that he can continue with his saga and garner the sympathy of the folks on this forum. He is tone deaf to any advice that would help him move on. I know that there are many posters here who genuinely relate to his dilemma. However, that is a tribute to their kindness and empathy for a fellow betrayed spouse. I am not so sure ZH really deserves their kindness and sympathy because of his complete indifference to helpful advice given so freely by so many well meaning people. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that ZH's wife is not wife material and probably never has been. For ZH to obdurately stick around after she has given him enough proof of her complete lack of empathy for him and her willingness to change is unfathomable. As they say " You cannot get a leopard to change it's spots". ZH's wife is not going to change because she does not want to or is completely incapable of doing so. So I guess this saga will go on and on. Warm wishes.

 

and i agree with everything you said. Which is why i have said some of the things i have in this on going saga.

[kgcolonel]

ZH, I have intentionally be silent here for the most part but wanted to provide you with a new perspective.

 

It appears that while you're planning on staying with her. I get what she did was incredibly painful as well as anything else that could be said negative about her actions. That said, what you are doing now, "holding onto the mementos" will provide you nothing but prolonged pain and agony. YOU need to get off the fence, decide to R or D and commit to that. Constantly reviewing, searching etc is nothing more that holding onto the misery of what she did and will prevent you from healing.

 

You should either let go of what she did and move on to R or hold onto it and D her....where you are now is pergatory and you can't move forward or backward in this position.

[BaileyB]

ZH, I have intentionally be silent here for the most part but wanted to provide you with a new perspective.

 

It appears that while you're planning on staying with her. I get what she did was incredibly painful as well as anything else that could be said negative about her actions. That said, what you are doing now, "holding onto the mementos" will provide you nothing but prolonged pain and agony. YOU need to get off the fence, decide to R or D and commit to that. Constantly reviewing, searching etc is nothing more that holding onto the misery of what she did and will prevent you from healing.

 

You should either let go of what she did and move on to R or hold onto it and D her....where you are now is pergatory and you can't move forward or backward in this position.

 

Exactly. When my mom passed away, the counsellor advised me not to go back and relive the events that lead to her tragic passing. She said by doing that, your brain hard wires the events, leading to a kind of PTSD. While, I think it's important to process what happened and rather unreasonable and impossible to think that you can never think about the event, I do believe that there is merit to the fact that you can retraumatize yourself by getting stuck in that place, reliving the events, and searching for answers, again, and again, and again...

 

When I read ZH posts, it is like a broken record that constantly comes back to the skip in the record. And yes, it hasn't been that long... And yes, you do need to do some searching and spend some time thinking about it to process what has happened. But, the way you are processing this betrayal seems really, really unhealthy and I hope your counsellor can help you to find a better way to cope and move forward. Because, I do believe that you have chosen to stay with your wife - I just don't believe that you have truly committed to that decision yet. And absolutely, you continue to completely disregard the good advice that has been provided by people on this board. ZH continues to process the event in his own way which is fine... as long as you find a healthy way to deal with the betrayal and move forward.

[road]

ZH, recovery cannot happen with you recalling every thing that

your WW did in her affair.

 

Doing so will never let those memories fade allowing you to

heal and recover the feelings that you had for your WW.

 

This is why once the BH has all the facts, has all of his questions

answered nothing further positive can be gained talking about

what one's WW did during an affair.

 

It is normal to trigger. Triggers cannot be stopped now. Though

with time they happen farther apart and for shorter durations.

Then one day be for a BH realizes the next trigger happens that

it was such a long time ago that he cannot remember when he had

his last trigger. And, this trigger will pass as fast as he just felt the

trigger. In a second things will be back on track.

 

Stop obsessing about your triggers.

[BaileyB]

Stop obsessing about your triggers.

 

This is it, exactly.

[usa1ah]

I don't see someone triggering as a obsession.

 

We all have a different tolerance to anything in life, not just dealing with a cheating partner.

 

Some people will just shrug their shoulders and ask it they had fun.

 

Others will walk out on this news and never look back.

 

The rest are somewhere in between.

 

So you saying to stop obsessing over your triggers is pointless. People can't just turn thing that hurt off like a switch. It is easy to say stop obsessing but not so to stop. Depending on ones beliefs and up bringing will dictate whether one can stop triggering or not.

 

ZH has a pretty good set of rules of what is right and what is wrong for his life. Just because he is triggering doesn't make him less of a man. It shows that his wife has severely damaged their marriage and relationship. Maybe beyond the point that ZH is able to stay with her. That is his decision to make in the near future.

 

The reason he keeps triggering and having problems is because every time he turns around it is something new being disclosed. Or her actions do not match what she says. Just like their son being molested by the older boy at the pool party they were at and her wanting to stay and party on after ZH told her what had happened. What mother would not at the very least comfort their child.

 

ZH's wife has serious issues with herself. The biggest one I'm starting to think is that she was never in love with ZH.

[BaileyB]

The reason he keeps triggering and having problems is because every time he turns around it is something new being disclosed. Or her actions do not match what she says. Just like their son being molested by the older boy at the pool party they were at and her wanting to stay and party on after ZH told her what had happened. What mother would not at the very least comfort their child.

 

ZH's wife has serious issues with herself. The biggest one I'm starting to think is that she was never in love with ZH.

 

Indeed, there continue to new things that happen that trigger the hurt. Her actions do not match what she says. And that is a problem.

 

I'm curious, how can you say that she never loved her husband? That is a huge assumption to make and it's a devastating thought. I just don't understand how a stranger on the Internet can tell ZH that his wife never really loved him.

 

She is so messed up - her thinking, her judgment, her decisions are so messed up - I'm not even sure that she knows what she feels or what she wants. I'd like to think that loves or at least has loved ZH - in her own very selfish and immature way,

[usa1ah]

Indeed, there continue to new things that happen that trigger the hurt. Her actions do not match what she says. And that is a problem.

 

I'm curious, how can you say that she never loved her husband? That is a huge assumption to make and it's a devastating thought. I just don't understand how a stranger on the Internet can tell ZH that his wife never really loved him.

 

She is so messed up - her thinking, her judgment, her decisions are so messed up - I'm not even sure that she knows what she feels or what she wants. I'd like to think that loves or at least has loved ZH - in her own very selfish and immature way,

 

Never said she doesn't love him in a way, I said she is not "in love with him".

[Mrs. John Adams]

Never said she doesn't love him in a way, I said she is not "in love with him".

 

none of us know that...she may very well love him in her own way...and it may not be the way we think it should be.

 

It doesn't really even matter...what matters is that ZH has decided that she is worth keeping.

 

and herein lies my issue.

 

If you know your spouse is all kinds of messed up...but you have made the decision to remain married...then tell me what good it is to continually come on line and tell strangers all the bad things about her knowing they are going to give you advice you disagree with? How is this healthy? What good does it do?

 

Look some folks told my husband to divorce me...some folks said i was showing remorse by my actions. There came a time when my husband stopped posting becasue it did not matter anymore. He made his decision and it really did not matter what anyone else thought.

 

ZH seems to enjoy revealing NEW bad things about his wife for everyone to discuss...he knows people are going to tell him how terrible she is...

 

whats the point?

 

If he has made his decision that he loves her and it doesn't matter what she has done...then why come here to stir people up? This is the part i do not understand

[BluesPower]

I do have to jump in here...

 

I do have to wonder about ZH's wife's love for him. Not that she never did but that it was not the love. The love that consumes you type of love.

 

The way that she romanticized her first love, the 40 YO drunk loser.

 

I relate some of that to my situation with my STBXW. Now, no man ever loved a woman more that I loved her. I took her back after 2 affairs, like a fool, I eventually was going to be able to forgive her for her drug addiction that went on for 20 years (Hidden BTW).

 

But I finally woke up and understood that she never really loved me. She never respected me, even though no one was more worth of respect than me at that time. I mean I was super dad, super husband and super lover. What more could any woman want. She never went without anything, ever.

 

The funniest thing is when I make the statement to my kids that mom never loved or respected me, they all shake their heads Yes. Everyone knew but me, how does that happen. I must have just been in a complete state of denial for years and years.

 

I am not saying that ZH's wife is as bad as mine... But I do wonder????

[sandylee1]

ZH,

 

Please ignore those saying to get over it, forgive her and move on.

 

I'm inclined to believe that she found you to be a good, reliable, kind and loving man. The letter to her Ex kind of indicates that.

 

Showing his picture to your daughter, is extremely disrespectful in my opinion.

 

Your wife has shown a string of awful choices. I don't know if you'll ever be truly happy with her again.

 

I think perhaps some space between in the form of a separation might help you.

 

I think this has been said before, but your wife needs a job. She had too much time on her hands.

[zombiehead]

I'm here for help, opinions, I really appreciate it, I'm not here to stir people up. I do understand how you can get stir up from the stories on this forum. I was reading some of the stories here and I got stirred up so I stopped reading other stories, mine is all my brain can handle.

 

She wrote the letter in 2014, when I saved the camping trip list I saw a word document saved title DJ and I opened it. I never noticed it before, I guess my radar wasn't on until now. It seems I notice everything now, what's this, what's that ect ect.

 

I asked her about the letter and she said she wrote it for closure. I asked her if she ever loved me, she said that she loves me with all her heart, more than DJ more than anyone. She said she has a deep deep love for me, blah blah blah. She said that her breaking up with DJ was so we could meet, I was her destiny, more blah blah blah. Also I asked her why she would show our children a picture of him and tell them he was your old boyfriend. She started crying and said that she has loved no one more than me.

 

We have been able to discuss our issues very calmly, she is not yelling during our discussions. It is nice to have a calm matter of fact discussion and we have had many over the last few weeks. I told her that I'm not going to tolerate her yelling and getting loud, also I have been recording our discussions on a VAR which is absolutely legal and for my protection.

 

We have the camping trip to CO coming up and when we return I'm going to see if she will go spend a month at her parents house. She can take the kids for some of that time if she wants, I'm sure her parents would love to see them. I would like at least a week alone no wife no kids, I think I need some time for myself. Last night I watched that movie "bad moms" for the 1st time and the husband was caught having skype sex and I guess that is the modern way to cheat, isn't technology great!!!

[usa1ah]

none of us know that...she may very well love him in her own way...and it may not be the way we think it should be.

 

It doesn't really even matter...what matters is that ZH has decided that she is worth keeping.

 

and herein lies my issue.

 

If you know your spouse is all kinds of messed up...but you have made the decision to remain married...then tell me what good it is to continually come on line and tell strangers all the bad things about her knowing they are going to give you advice you disagree with? How is this healthy? What good does it do?

 

Look some folks told my husband to divorce me...some folks said i was showing remorse by my actions. There came a time when my husband stopped posting becasue it did not matter anymore. He made his decision and it really did not matter what anyone else thought.

 

ZH seems to enjoy revealing NEW bad things about his wife for everyone to discuss...he knows people are going to tell him how terrible she is...

 

whats the point?

 

If he has made his decision that he loves her and it doesn't matter what she has done...then why come here to stir people up? This is the part i do not understand

 

Has he really decided to keep her........

I think he is still deciding he can deal with it.

[Zona]

Just dropped into the thread to wish you strength moving forward. No one should have to go through what you are going through. I just want to say that I think you are handling it with resolve and integrity.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Has he really decided to keep her........

I think he is still deciding he can deal with it.

 

he has certainly indicated to us that he is not divorcing...he wants to keep his family in tact...

[usa1ah]

he has certainly indicated to us that he is not divorcing...he wants to keep his family in tact...

 

Only if he can get past this. If he can great for his wife. If he can't ZH and his kids will be fine. ZH has to do what is best for him and his kids. If he decides a month from now that he can't stay with his wife, I will support him 100%. If ZH decides he can and will stay with his wife, I will support him 100%.

 

This is his life not ours, but from what he keeps finding out I think is painting a very different person from who he thought his wife was. It will take time for him to get past this, if he can.

[Try]

You should either let go of what she did and move on to R or hold onto it and D her....where you are now is pergatory and you can't move forward or backward in this position.

Sorry but the OP does not have to follow anyone's timeline on deciding. It can take 3 to 5 years to heal, and anytime during that time he can decide that he will never heal and divorce. That is just the way it is. My Mom took years after my Dad's affair to divorce him. As much as she loved him and wanted to keep the family together, she just could not trust him again. The OP did not start this, but he alone gets to decide how and when it ends.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Sorry but the OP does not have to follow anyone's timeline on deciding. It can take 3 to 5 years to heal, and anytime during that time he can decide that he will never heal and divorce. That is just the way it is. My Mom took years after my Dad's affair to divorce him. As much as she loved him and wanted to keep the family together, she just could not trust him again. The OP did not start this, but he alone gets to decide how and when it ends.

 

no thats not really true either...she could make the decision to pull the plug. I dont think she will...but she certainly could.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Try, you are absolutely correct about ZH's right to choose when he or if he wants to D or R with his wife. He is the person wearing the shoe and he knows where it pinches. As you said it takes between 3 to 5 years for a person to heal and ZH is entitled to take that much time or even longer if he needs to. The point is that ZH has categorically stated at some point that he is NOT going to divorce his wife because he does not want to break up the family. Again, that is entirely his prerogative and no one can tell him that he is wrong to do so. The point in question that many of us have been highlighting is that he has been blowing hot and cold about his wife after he has taken that decision and is sometimes painting her as a blackguard and sometimes as being very cooperative, loving, and family oriented, wanting things to come back to the old normal before the discovery of her kinky on line behaviour and her cyber sex episodes with multiple men. He has periods when he spews venom at his wife and then, on the other hand, makes conciliatory noises about her. Even that may be acceptable behaviour on his part but does he have to continue to come to this forum and air his dirty laundry for everyone to comment on and be provoked into giving him advice which he conveniently ignores? His thread has run into 71 pages with no end in sight.

 

So many other betrayed spouses have come on here and discussed their problems, taken the advice that they needed from the collective wisdom of folks on this forum and then decided on a course of action to address their problems. After deciding what to do they have left the forum after maybe ten or twenty pages of writing about their problems. Not so our man. Whenever he senses that interest in his thread is waning he comes out with a fresh little nugget of information to keep the thread going. What is the point of all this fulmination? He has already decided he is not going to divorce his wife and he has categorically stated so. If that be so then he should be working on forgiving his wife and moving on. You may not agree with me and that is alright but my own thinking is that this thread will carry on till most people tire of it and fall off it due to sheer fatigue. Warm wishes.

[merrmeade]

Hi Try, you are absolutely correct about ZH's right to choose when he or if he wants to D or R with his wife. He is the person wearing the shoe and he knows where it pinches. As you said it takes between 3 to 5 years for a person to heal and ZH is entitled to take that much time or even longer if he needs to. The point is that ZH has categorically stated at some point that he is NOT going to divorce his wife because he does not want to break up the family. Again, that is entirely his prerogative and no one can tell him that he is wrong to do so. The point in question that many of us have been highlighting is that he has been blowing hot and cold about his wife after he has taken that decision and is sometimes painting her as a blackguard and sometimes as being very cooperative, loving, and family oriented, wanting things to come back to the old normal before the discovery of her kinky on line behaviour and her cyber sex episodes with multiple men. He has periods when he spews venom at his wife and then, on the other hand, makes conciliatory noises about her. Even that may be acceptable behaviour on his part but does he have to continue to come to this forum and air his dirty laundry for everyone to comment on and be provoked into giving him advice which he conveniently ignores? His thread has run into 71 pages with no end in sight.

 

So many other betrayed spouses have come on here and discussed their problems, taken the advice that they needed from the collective wisdom of folks on this forum and then decided on a course of action to address their problems. After deciding what to do they have left the forum after maybe ten or twenty pages of writing about their problems. Not so our man. Whenever he senses that interest in his thread is waning he comes out with a fresh little nugget of information to keep the thread going. What is the point of all this fulmination? He has already decided he is not going to divorce his wife and he has categorically stated so. If that be so then he should be working on forgiving his wife and moving on. You may not agree with me and that is alright but my own thinking is that this thread will carry on till most people tire of it and fall off it due to sheer fatigue. Warm wishes.

All due respect, JAG, but so the hell what? No one is forced to read his thread, advise or even care about zh. There's nothing in the LS guidelines that says you can't come here for discussion only. In fact, "to confront personal conflicts, promote participation in self-discovery and responsibility, and encourage collaboration between community participants on romantic and platonic interpersonal relationship issues" is about as open-ended as you can get.

 

I did ALL the things you've identified - and still do. Even remember a few people, expressing similar frustrations but by and large I felt grateful for the feedback. Restatements of my situation were helpful but nagging criticism about why I stayed were not. Granted, it didn't go on for close to a hundred pages, but that was my choice. I still need to spew venom from time to time when triggered by a memory or event - just spew. My negativity can be exaggerated but once dumped I can be more measured and sane discussing my partner.

 

I've said it before and will say it again: For whatever reason, whatever end, zh is processing here in the way that some people do in therapy. It's his prerogative; he owes us nothing. Venting about his wife on LS is totally within LS guidelines. People can always stop reading. In fact, I did stop reading for a while. Got bored that it was stalled, felt we were treading water. Came back and still there. But that's the voyeur in me. For zh it's very real and very present, and he gets something out of writing about it here.

 

And I totally disagree any BS "should be working on forgiving his wife and moving on." To me, it's about healing. To hell with forgiveness. It happens after healing happens. On its own, without being forced. In fact, it's far more full of grace to wake up to the realization that forgiveness just happened. No one did anything. That forgiveness is deep and healing for everyone imho.

 

My personal opinion is that there's nothing wrong with zh and don't even think it matters if I convince anyone or not. In fact, zh cracks me up how impervious he is to these aspects of his thread. This maelstrom of frustrated fixers just swirls around him without changing a thing. ZH just keeps on doing his zh thing completely indifferent to the number of pages, the scripts he's fed or admonishments!

 

It's hard just to listen without fixing, but others' problems don't need to be fixed on our schedule. I remember my dad used to get so upset, thinking he had to fix whatever problem he learned about in the family, but my mother could just listen without expressing judgment or expectation. So who do you think I called?

 

"What is the point of all this fulmination?" You said it yourself: "ZH is entitled to take that much time or even longer if he needs to."

[zombiehead]

Forgiveness seems impossible. R is hard because you stay with the source of your pain. Can you heal.when you are trying to R and not ready to forgive. I believe she is finally beginning to get it. The other night when we discussed the letter she wrote to the deceased ex bf back.in 2014 that I.just discovered we also discussed my mind movies in detail and she had the look in her eye of horror that I.had this images of what she was doing in my mind.

[QuietDan]

This last revelation / discovery is the most serious one. The basic emotional context of the meaning of the marriage and relationship from the beginning is now ambiguous. What is real? What is a lie? What is fantasy? Fantasies, obcessions, desire, sex, truth, love, hope, reality, ...

You are standing on the shifting ground of a troubled mind. What do you hope to build? What sort of foundation do you have to build on?