nude pics red flag??

[here222]

zh

Time to man up, nightmares are just bad dreams we all have them. Your reaction to yours is a little over the top. Settle down and take your time with all of this . None of this will leave you very soon so learn to deal with it. Either you trust your wife or don't. It sounds like she doing her part now, accept only what she is doing as positive and deal with it. You can not live your life being this hot and cold. Dreams are dreams let them go as such.

[Doorstopper]

ZH,

 

I'm playing devils advocate here since some of the other comments are a bit harsh. You told your wife about your nightmare and she tried to re-assure you that its not happening, everything is over with, and it will not happening again.

 

After thinking about it, she realized how deeply affected you were by it, and called to apologize.

 

Here's something to think about: She is absolutely responsible for the affair, you however are responsible for your dreams. That doesn't mean she shouldn't apologize for them, but you are the only one who can make them stop. I went through this for months over actions my wife did that could, if looked at form the point of view that she was in affair, look very damaging. To paraphrase: My counselor would say the following: "Is she having an affair now?" I'd say"NO". then "Do you think she's in an affair?" I'd say NO. Then its in your head.

 

I have to tell you: This site has got to be killing you. Every time you post something 5 people tell you your wife is still doing all this stuff, having physical affairs, and even threesomes, groups (within the last week or so). If you really want to reconcile, get away from here for a couple of months. Still read, if you wish, but don't post. Let your head clear of all the crap from here.

 

You came on here to post that you think your wife is making progress and it was twisted around to hurt you and her, and add more insecurities. Trust your own instincts. I'm not saying you should reconcile and I'm not saying you should divorce.

 

Ask yourself these questions:

"Is she having an affair now?"

"Do you think she's in an affair?"

If the answer to both is no, its in your head. If you can answer yes, you need to investigate and/or leave.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Doorstopper

[drifter777]

It seems she is finally starting to get it.

 

Wow - I've read this kind of statement from you at least a dozen times.

[usa1ah]

Just to clarify my view.

 

No, I don't think ZH's wife is doing anything now.

 

I don't think she understands how she has hurt ZH and damaged the marriage.

 

I believe she is thinking what is the big deal anyway, it's not like I slept with them physically. (This because of her partying with her gf's after d-day when ZH asked for time alone. Instead of trying to find why she did this and what she could do to help ZH, she party's it up.)

 

I believe she is running a script now. Z says this I answer this. Z feels this I respond with this. I do not believe it is genuine. She is trying to fix a problem she doesn't believe exist. Like one of her comments " I thought it would add spice to our relationship. " or " lots of husbands have forgiven wives that actually cheated. "

 

I don't think in the end ZH will get past this for one reason. His wife doesn't think she did anything wrong. If she felt guilty for what she did and showed true remorse, ZH would be much happier now and on the way to fix the marriage. But she is not guilty or remorseful, she is getting tired of ZH not getting over this already.

[usa1ah]

One last thing. Don't know if she did, but I do believe it is possible she did physically cheat on ZH because of her other activities. Something kicked this off.

 

I also believe her friends knew about it when it was going on.

[deadsoul]

Woke up at 5am from a nightmare about my wife having sex with another man. It seemed so real that felt a panic and anxiety. So I got up and made coffee and fed the dog and cats. Around 7 my wife gets up and asked how long I've been up and I told her about the nightmare. She said I'm not doing that stuff any longer and never will again then she asked me to make her a cup of coffee. I told her to make it herself beause I need to go to work. I'm disappointed that she didnt apologize that her betrayal is the reason I'm having these nightmares. Anger starts to build as I'm driving to work so I decided I'm done going to call me attorney and tell him to file the petition for divorce. When I get to my desk at work I'm just seconds away from calling him and my wife calls and apologizes!!! It seems she is finally starting to get it. She apologized about my nightmare and for all the things she did and that she loves me.

 

That seems like a positive step forward. The only part that concerns me is she didn't react the way you wanted her and you were so angry you were ready to file. Along the way, she may not always react the way you need her to. Will your anger always get to that point where you are ready to file?

 

Your reactions matter too. Take care and I'm rooting for you!

[usa1ah]

That seems like a positive step forward. The only part that concerns me is she didn't react the way you wanted her and you were so angry you were ready to file. Along the way, she may not always react the way you need her to. Will your anger always get to that point where you are ready to file?

 

Your reactions matter too. Take care and I'm rooting for you!

 

If she felt any remorse or guilt for the pain that the nightmare caused ZH, she would have reacted the way ZH needed her to. Instead he got fix me a coffee like the good husband you are.

 

ZH had good reason for being pissed. With out thinking his wife showed her true colors again. Same attitude when she partied it up with her gf's right after he caught her.

[BluesPower]

That seems like a positive step forward. The only part that concerns me is she didn't react the way you wanted her and you were so angry you were ready to file. Along the way, she may not always react the way you need her to. Will your anger always get to that point where you are ready to file?

 

Your reactions matter too. Take care and I'm rooting for you!

 

In some ways we all want to make an excuse for her... because we all hope the she may wake up. And any wayward wants to be sympathetic to another wayward.

 

But here is a deal, a wayward that is really working to help their spouse heal, would have seen this as an opportunity to apologize and comfort their spouse because of what they had done to them.

 

This type of example is the reason my STBXW is living in a rent house. She just could never, ever understand what she had done to me. She was never approaching remorse, not for her affairs and certainly not for her drug addiction. She just thought that when she finally got sober all was right with the world. I should just be so happy for her that she is sober.

 

Never once any consideration for what all that crap did to me.

 

Never once understanding the pain that she caused.

 

This type of thing is one of the main reasons marriages end after something like this because the offender just never gets it...

[coupe444]

Woke up at 5am from a nightmare about my wife having sex with another man. It seemed so real that felt a panic and anxiety. So I got up and made coffee and fed the dog and cats. Around 7 my wife gets up and asked how long I've been up and I told her about the nightmare. She said I'm not doing that stuff any longer and never will again then she asked me to make her a cup of coffee. I told her to make it herself beause I need to go to work. I'm disappointed that she didnt apologize that her betrayal is the reason I'm having these nightmares. Anger starts to build as I'm driving to work so I decided I'm done going to call me attorney and tell him to file the petition for divorce. When I get to my desk at work I'm just seconds away from calling him and my wife calls and apologizes!!! It seems she is finally starting to get it. She apologized about my nightmare and for all the things she did and that she loves me.

 

More time is required for both of you. You are your own individual and she is her own individual. I have read through from your first post to your last one and your wife has apologized off her own back on more than one occasion to you which is a better than before when you had to preempt her. The thing is how many apologies from your wife is enough 10 20 100 1000 etc. I think where you both are now you have both come along way and your wife has changed allot for you. I understand you're hurting most peoples marriages who i know of are messed up for one reason or another. If you divorce your wife please don't think it will be easier or that it will all be plain sailing with someone else. I think you should give her at least 6 months from now to see where you both are and if things have moved forward even if its only a little give it another 6 months and so on. I don't know if coming on here talking about your situation after saying that your trying to work it out with your wife after catching her out is actually helpful for you now. I wonder if some people commenting off the back of your comments just want to put your wife down or are really trying to help you both. I wish you all the best this will be my only comment. I only registered to comment on your situation because I feel for you. All the best for the future and I wish I was getting as much bedroom action as you are right now!

[BluesPower]

More time is required for both of you. You are your own individual and she is her own individual. I have read through from your first post to your last one and your wife has apologized off her own back on more than one occasion to you which is a better than before when you had to preempt her. The thing is how many apologies from your wife is enough 10 20 100 1000 etc. I think where you both are now you have both come along way and your wife has changed allot for you. I understand you're hurting most peoples marriages who i know of are messed up for one reason or another. If you divorce your wife please don't think it will be easier or that it will all be plain sailing with someone else. I think you should give her at least 6 months from now to see where you both are and if things have moved forward even if its only a little give it another 6 months and so on. I don't know if coming on here talking about your situation after saying that your trying to work it out with your wife after catching her out is actually helpful for you now. I wonder if some people commenting off the back of your comments just want to put your wife down or are really trying to help you both. I wish you all the best this will be my only comment. I only registered to comment on your situation because I feel for you. All the best for the future and I wish I was getting as much bedroom action as you are right now!

 

A cheating spouse can never... apologize enough. Never.

 

The fact that he even thought about taking her back should be seen by her as the greatest gift she has ever gotten, ever.

 

That is what most Waywards just never understand. They should spend their time and energy looking for ways to comfort the Betrayed spouse. Then, eventually but not forever, the BS stops having nightmares and mind movies and they stop triggering for the most part.

 

Until that time, and really anytime if the future that something comes up, the Wayward Spouse she look for every opportunity to apologize and comfort the Betrayed spouse.

 

Those that don't do this can count on getting a divorce.

[Mrs. John Adams]

A cheating spouse can never... apologize enough. Never.

 

The fact that he even thought about taking her back should be seen by her as the greatest gift she has ever gotten, ever.

 

That is what most Waywards just never understand. They should spend their time and energy looking for ways to comfort the Betrayed spouse. Then, eventually but not forever, the BS stops having nightmares and mind movies and they stop triggering for the most part.

 

Until that time, and really anytime if the future that something comes up, the Wayward Spouse she look for every opportunity to apologize and comfort the Betrayed spouse.

 

Those that don't do this can count on getting a divorce.

 

 

Many waywards do understand that they have been given the gift of reconciliation...the gift of a second chance...and as they grow in remorse they also grow in their understanding of EXACTLY what that means.

 

Apologizing is needed and required...comfort is certainly needed...especially when the betrayed is triggering. Unfortunately...triggers never stop...they grow less intense...they grow less frequent..but they still happen. Bad memories never grow away.

 

But more than apologies and comfort is needed...true empathy is needed...and unfortunately there are some people who just are not empathetic. A betrayed hopes as time goes by...a wayward can begin to let go of their own pain and understand the pain they have caused their betrayed..and this does take time...especially if the wayward is still consumed with feeling sorry for themselves.

 

The trick in reconciliaition comes when a betrayed has to decide whether or not THEIR wayward is capable of moving past their own pain and capable of feeling the empathy for their betrayed they need to be feeling in order to be remorseful and help them heal. Meanwhile...they are left on their own to find healing....

 

How much time does it take for a wayward to be empathetic and remorseful?? I dont know...how much time are you willing to give them? Are they showing you through actions that they are sincere in their effort to reconcile? Are they accepting full responsibility? Are they transparent? Have they tightened up their boundaries? Are they asking what you need them to do? Are they sorry?

 

Each betrayed has to answer these questions for themselves with honesty. Each betrayed has to decide how much time they can give their wayward to give them what they need.

 

I cannot determine for someone else when it is time to give up...My husband gave me time...because he could see that i was trying.

 

Is Mrs ZH really trying? the only one who can answer this question is ZH.

[road]

A cheating spouse can never... apologize enough. Never.

 

The fact that he even thought about taking her back should be seen by her as the greatest gift she has ever gotten, ever.

 

That is what most Waywards just never understand. They should spend their time and energy looking for ways to comfort the Betrayed spouse. Then, eventually but not forever, the BS stops having nightmares and mind movies and they stop triggering for the most part.

 

Until that time, and really anytime if the future that something comes up, the Wayward Spouse she look for every opportunity to apologize and comfort the Betrayed spouse.

 

Those that don't do this can count on getting a divorce.

 

 

 

Difference between apologizing over and over and being their to

provide comfort as part of the consequences of having an affair.

 

Much better for the WW to stop beating her self up and instead

using her energies to help her BH heal.

[zombiehead]

I believe most waywards struggle with getting it, because they have a personality flaw which is evident from their decision to cheat.

 

My wife in the beginning wad not remorseful, she wanted me to get over it all ready. However since she began IC and reading about infidelity she is beginning to understand the pain she caused.

 

Do I think she is still having affairs or will do it again? No I don't think she will do it again. Do I think she now understands my pain and feels remorseful deep in her heart? No I dont think she is there but it seems she is trying to get there.

 

I said that I will give it till December and see how I feel and if she keeps working on herself.

[usa1ah]

ZH, take a break from us. Work on you and spend time with the kids.

 

You need time away from your wife.

 

You need time to go out with your friends.

 

If there is a room in the house you can move in to I would do so. If she is not able to understand she needs to be brought to it by your actions.

 

You need to be able to stand on your own to go forward in a broken marriage or she will do again. Her seeing that you don't need her to survive will let her see if she does anything like this in the future you will walk away.

 

Drop a line every now and then to let us know you're ok.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I believe most waywards struggle with getting it, because they have a personality flaw which is evident from their decision to cheat.

 

My wife in the beginning wad not remorseful, she wanted me to get over it all ready. However since she began IC and reading about infidelity she is beginning to understand the pain she caused.

 

Do I think she is still having affairs or will do it again? No I don't think she will do it again. Do I think she now understands my pain and feels remorseful deep in her heart? No I dont think she is there but it seems she is trying to get there.

 

I said that I will give it till December and see how I feel and if she keeps working on herself.

 

ZH,

 

Believe it or not, a lot of what I'm reading from your posts is "normal".

 

I can't tell you how many times I walked out the front door not knowing if I was coming back or not. When it came to that decision, I took the approach that If things didn't work out, I could file for divorce at any time. However, for the sake of my kids, I wanted to make sure I (we) tried every option before I filed for divorce. In my situation, it worked out that we're still together. D-Day was 9 years ago.

 

WS will not "get it". Not to the full extent. Prime example, just after D-Day at MC, my WW said in the session that she wanted us to renew our vows for our upcoming anniversary (@ 4 months away). I told her stay was crazy!! We never renewed our vows, and I have not acknowledged our anniversary in years. Her statement is just a glimpse inside a cheaters head that they want the mess of the aftermath to blow over asap. I believe to some extend it is a type of self-preservation on behalf of the WS; not a personality flaw. For a WS it's painful to look directly at the situation with open eyes to see the carnage that they have caused.

[Maraud3r]

Do I think she is still having affairs or will do it again? No I don't think she will do it again.

Wait, did I miss something. This combined with your other post where you had a nightmare of her sleeping with another man and her answer was "she isn't doing that anymore" seems like we went from a massive breach of trust, internet affairs including cams, filming both of you etc to actual physical cheating?

[Doorstopper]

Wait, did I miss something. This combined with your other post where you had a nightmare of her sleeping with another man and her answer was "she isn't doing that anymore" seems like we went from a massive breach of trust, internet affairs including cams, filming both of you etc to actual physical cheating?

 

 

Maraud3r, See my post on the previous page. ZH was responding to my post. There are no smoking guns.

[Mr Blunt]

I believe most waywards struggle with getting it, because they have a personality flaw which is evident from their decision to cheat.

You can help yourself in either case, if she gets it or she does not get it. Work on yourself to build yourself up as much as you can in all areas. Also, get yourself so that you do not need as much empathy from your wife that you do right now so that you will not be so hurt. The reason for that is she may not give you the empathy that you need so then where are you? If she does give you the empathy that you need then your hurt will be diminished considerably.

 

Building yourself up so that you do not need so much of your wife’s empathy is so very important so that you can have more security within yourself. Also, it will make up for some of the lost trust that you have in your wife. In other words do not depend on your wife’s treatment of you to determine most of your self-worth and your emotional health. You can get a lot of that from yourself and other loved ones.

[deadsoul]

In some ways we all want to make an excuse for her... because we all hope the she may wake up. And any wayward wants to be sympathetic to another wayward.

 

But here is a deal, a wayward that is really working to help their spouse heal, would have seen this as an opportunity to apologize and comfort their spouse because of what they had done to them.

 

This type of example is the reason my STBXW is living in a rent house. She just could never, ever understand what she had done to me. She was never approaching remorse, not for her affairs and certainly not for her drug addiction. She just thought that when she finally got sober all was right with the world. I should just be so happy for her that she is sober.

 

Never once any consideration for what all that crap did to me.

 

Never once understanding the pain that she caused.

 

This type of thing is one of the main reasons marriages end after something like this because the offender just never gets it...

 

I completely get what you're saying and I agree. My point is ZH is in control of himself and his reactions, not hers. She may never be or react how he needs her to, but he can control his own reactions and thoughts. Someone said it before much better than I'm going to, but his focus needs to be on him and his children. She needs to get her crap together and if it's "enough" for him or he feels she is truly remorseful then he can make his own peace with it. She needs to fight her own battle and figure out her actions and fix herself. He isn't responsible for that. He's ultimately responsible for whether her actions are enough for him.

[BluesPower]

I agree with you DS... But ZH has been kind of been weak, and understandably so. I mean the stuff she did would freak out anyone.

 

The other problem and I don't know how you get around it is that some men and maybe some women just can't get through some of this without the WS being there to help.

 

Now if he divorced her he would be able to maybe heal but so far he does not want that. He wants her to help him heal, right or wrong, and I am not sure that she is self-aware enough to get it or not. Maybe she will but at this point it is not looking good.

 

Further, if he ever gives her a poly, and I understand the controversy, he will lose his S*** when he finds out she was actually screwing some of the local tender guys. Maybe it did not happen and maybe the online stuff was enough but lets be real, what are the odds of that being true?

 

I think he really needs her to help him and I just don't know if she will ever be able to...

[merrmeade]

I believe most waywards struggle with getting it, because they have a personality flaw which is evident from their decision to cheat.

This is the crux of the matter, but it's also clear he's holding out hope that she will finally come around. We've all dreamt of a totally repentant WS who figuratively or literally falls to her/his knees, suddenly on fire with the awareness of what s/he's done. It seems so obvious they should simply feel bad that they hurt us and want us to know this. But so few can do it.

[reboot]

This is the crux of the matter, but it's also clear he's holding out hope that she will finally come around. We've all dreamt of a totally repentant WS who figuratively or literally falls to her/his knees, suddenly on fire with the awareness of what s/he's done. It seems so obvious they should simply feel bad that they hurt us and want us to know this. But so few can do it.

 

Most people with that kind of empathy don't cheat in the first place.

[Buckeye2]

Most people with that kind of empathy don't cheat in the first place.

 

Self-selection bias

In statistics, self-selection bias arises in any situation in which individuals select themselves into a group, causing a biased sample.. It is commonly used to describe situations where the characteristics of the people which cause them to select themselves in the group create abnormal conditions in the group.

For example the group of people who donate blood tend to be nicer people than the general population. The group of people that cheat tend to think that it isn’t that big of a deal. The general population thinks it’s a bigger deal.

[zombiehead]

Time is helping, I'm not a full-blown Zombiehead like before!!

[smi11ie]

You could ask a polygraph to double check there was no PA.