Divorced, NC for over a year, struggling with 'love' in the modern world

[Harry_30]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post on a forum about anything remotely related to relationships, and yet I find myself here looking for some sign that the way I feel and what I am experiencing is not unique, because it sure feels that way.

 

Some background, I am a 32yr old guy, divorced for one year, and have only had two partners in my entire life. My parents are happily married (arranged), and in some ways, a traditional asian couple. As such, I've always been raised with the idea that monogamy is the 'right' way to live your life, and that one shouldn't engage in a relationship without a good feeling or sense that it has the potential to turn into marriage.

 

I met my wife 7.5yrs ago, we fell in love, and 3.5yrs ago we got married. Long story short, but we just couldn't make it work. Despite being a perfect match on paper, it just felt like we had different views on so much, stuff that wasn't a big deal when you're dating, but gets big when important decisions like children come into the fray.

 

We both have our take on the brake-up of course, but I do feel let down by various aspects of the way I was treated, am sure she feels the same.

 

In the year during which we conducted, and completed our divorce, I made a few attempts to show my love and care for her, and offer small olive branches in her direction should she still wish to make a go of things. Cards on important occasions, with thoughtful messages, and letters. She was extremely cold, rarely responding. I took this as an indication that she had decided this was the only solution, she had instigated the divorce after all, it wasn't my wish.

 

We completed the paperwork in November last year, and it was then I realised, and began to accept the situation and how final it was.

 

In the short time between then and now she has been strangely communicative, by that I mean she has sent me numerous messages (when previously she never instigated communication), some asking for advice on her car, some reminding me to see the supermoon, others to inform me she is sending some of my stuff back, in addition to new years messages, birthday messages, and even recently, a valentines message as a 'throwback to the happy times we shared' (with an old photo attached). To all these, I have not replied, radio silence, nothing!

 

The reason for the long post.... well my ex has a narcissistic mother (identified in couples counselling by our therapist, but rejected by my ex), and in many ways I believe my ex exhibits a lot of these traits. A significant lack of empathy, in my opinion of course, is what made our relationship extremely difficult to deal with some situations, and now without her in my life, I benefit from the calmness and tranquility I would never enjoy if she were still around.

 

In so many measures my life is better, my friends inform me I look better, seem happier, and that my 'swag' has returned. Not to mention the friendships I have been able to rekindle now I am afforded the freedom to talk with whomever I wish.

 

The problem is.... I still love her!!!!

 

I don't know why. She doesn't treat me well, my life is more chaotic and difficult with her around, and every person close to me now tells me that I am better off without her (of course they are going to say that I guess), but i'm not sure what it is (stockholm syndrome??), but I just miss her, maybe it's just the thought of the happy times we shared between the frantic and distressing ones.

 

I am on the cusp of a new promising venture, which will allow me not only to be comfortable, but to target the lifestyle I want to have in order to be the attentive dad I want to be when I am finally blessed with children, whilst also being able to create real +ve change in society, and yet despite all this... i feel i would give it all up to have another shot at a marriage I know would still have a 95% chance of failure.

 

I still can't picture a life without her in it. I tell my mum, my brain knows it wont work, even my heart tells me it is mostly pain and sadness, yet i yearn to be with her.

 

I am under no illusion that it's done, it will never be, it's finished. I know that if we were to bump into each other, I would smile, say hello as if she were an old colleague, and just walk on.

 

In this world, as someone who is 32, who met this woman when i was 24, young, ambitious, with only one previous partner... the world that now awaits me at 32 just seems such an ugly place.

 

That innocence we had at 24 (her 25), you never get that back. Now it's all tinder and dating sites, people being promiscuous, millennials with high expectations, plenty of baggage and frankly, completely out of whack morals. I really have no idea how I will find my future wife, or how she will find me. If I meet this woman, someone who manages to make me believe in love and romance again, how will she feel about my past? It all seems such a mess....

 

Everyday I read articles about cheating partners, sex sex sex in the media, selfie obsessed people stuck on their phones, sitting across the dinner table frantically typing into their social media portals, oblivious to the person sat across from them.... and here I am as a believer in romance, in the ignorance associated with being 'inexperienced' in the bedroom... If i've only ever been with a minimal number of people in bed, then I'm less inclined to feel the need to experiment away when my wife and I are 20yrs into marriage and inevitably our bedroom antics go through a stale period.... Is it only me who takes this view?

 

Unsurprisingly I've gone off track... I just don't know when things will feel right again... i'm reluctant to date because I don't feel ready, don't want to lead girls on, don't like the current dating scene, and I've lost a lot of faith in women and good people. Why is it all the articles seem to be about women hurting, not men....?

 

Thoughts? On any of the above... there must be someone out there with some advice that might result in an improvement in my situation... time hasn't changed a thing so far :-(

 

H

Edited February 17, 2017 by Harry_30

[Mr. Lucky]

Thoughts? On any of the above... there must be someone out there with some advice that might result in an improvement in my situation... time hasn't changed a thing so far :-(

 

H

 

I'd guess you're just lonely and, since she's what you've known, your mind is using her to fill in the blanks. Best way to counteract this is to create some new memories to push her results down the page.

 

Only way I know is to get yourself out there. You don't need OLD, there's real world groups based on everything from sports to politics to volunteer work.

 

The kind of girls you're looking for won't come knocking on your apartment door. Put yourself in social situations, the rest will happen...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

Hi.

 

I'm sorry that you are going through this.

 

It is honestly treacherous being a monogamist / moral person in today's world.

 

And honestly, it seems really hard to find another monogamist / moral person because person who are immoral and short-term users seek out partners that ARE committed.

 

I just wish you luck because I know the odds are against you.

 

But don't go back to the well that won't quench your thirst. If she didn't love you enough to not put you through a divorce before exhausting every last option, that was the answer right there.

[testmeasure]

.

 

It looks like you've come to the right conclusions. But it sounds like those conclusions aren't fully real to you yet, or haven't set in. So, part of your emotional reaction is still to an older understanding of things.

 

I would suggest reading more about narcissism.

 

I was with my ex for 10 years. The first 9 were fine. Then we had a daughter. After that my ex went "cold" as you describe. Because we had a kid, we continued on for a year in that state trying to make it work.

 

It is exactly as you describe. There is no problem until there is disagreement on an important issue. It sounds like for you that came after marriage. For us it came after having a child.

 

I can relate to the freedom and changes in yourself that you describe after getting away from it. The way you put it reminded how I felt.

 

I know what you mean about Stockholm syndrome. When we got 3rd parties involved and she complained about something I did wrong to our counselor or the attorneys, I found myself explaining what she meant by it and why it was reasonable. My attorney would look at me and say "She's Crazy." I was actually defending crazy.

 

We can't go no contact because we have a child. At a certain point, my ex went from being cold, dark, and hostile to being happy and friendly. Still any time there is a co-parenting disagreement, things get dysfunctional with her throwing out emotionally loaded statements and accusations.

 

It was only after the divorce that I came across the concept of narcissism. The more I looked into it, the more I understood. At this point it's fully real to me why the good times were so good and why the cold, dark side was inevitable. I understand it well enough, there is no desire to re-live it. Even in our co-parenting, each good moment of her being happy-friendly is pervaded by the knowledge that as soon as we disagree about something important, things will get dysfunctional.

 

.

[oldshirt]

Several things taking place here.

 

First off, the day you hit it off with someone else who is a nicer person and that you click with better, you will pretty much instantly no longer "love" her but will see her for the entitled, narcissistic, incompatibly person that she was.

 

Having her in your life was mostly just habit for which you grew accustomed and you haven't had a steady sex partner since, so you are sexually frustrated as well.

 

Once you do get with someone else, you will be surprised at how quickly she fades from your psyche.

 

The other issue regarding the Tinder and the selfie-obcessed etc is that is just today's western world. But at your age and station in life, there are going to be mature women with a sense of values and morality etc, you just have to dig a little deeper to find them as they won't be as in-your-face and will be a little further in the background than early-20s showing off their underwear in the bathroom.

 

You haven't missed the boat. An educated, gainfully employed, 32 year old man is at about the top of his market value and he will have several more years of being on the market.

 

Growing up in a traditional family with traditional values and arranged marriage is going to make you feel like going out into a hook-up culture and free market place is a bit of an alien landscape, but you can work on your game and polish up your social skills and style and you can adapt.

 

By adapt I don't mean to disregard your values and moral compass. I mean bump up your game and your initiative a bit and learn be a little more assertive and competitive. Game is a learned skillset and you can learn to polish up your traits that make you attractive and dating material to women while still living within your values and moral code.

[Harry_30]

Wow,

 

In honesty, I didn't expect to hear such promising, and useful advice, more so I was just looking for an empathetic ear... selfish really, but nobody wants to be that person moaning about their ex to friends and family a year later. Thank you for the replies!

 

The comment about habit is a fair one. I guess I had got so accustomed to that being the way life had to be, the emotional rollercoaster, the constant disagreements, that it became normal. As with most relationships with narcissistic people, we shared a lot of passion, well in my head we did, that's obv something that keeps a hold on you for a while.

 

As for these mature women.... keen to know where they are hiding. I live in central central london, I socialise a decent amount, and I have a good friendship cirlce which means my lifestyle is very pleasant (thank god), but perhaps London isn't the kind of place I should expect to meet down to earth people, either that or the places I am hanging out just aren't the right places. Patience is key I suppose....

 

I don't mean to come across arrogant, but I don't have too many problems attracting women. I look after myself by going to the gym regularly, I have a good lifestyle, live in central London and I believe I am good fun to be around, but my considerate nature means I tend to attract the kind of people who want something for nothing if you get me.... either that, or very troubled women.

 

There was a saying I once heard, 'you only attract people on the same level of emotional development as yourself', which has always concerned me. I do seem to attract women who have some deep issues, like my ex, and this has led me to conclude that either 1) almost all women are in some way plagued by some serious emotional trauma, or 2) I am suffering from some emotional issues which I have yet to tackle.

 

When I went to couples therapy with my ex, the topic of people-pleasing was raised, and linked to issues I may have faced when younger of having parents who expected a great deal from me, but it wasn't something that overly concerned the therapist, and as much as I would like to look further into it, therapy is just so expensive! I couldn't justify the costs after the amount of couples therapy we tried, to no avail I might add...

 

Room for thought on a lot of those replies... thanks again!

[Mr. Lucky]

I live in central central london, I socialise a decent amount, and I have a good friendship cirlce which means my lifestyle is very pleasant (thank god), but perhaps London isn't the kind of place I should expect to meet down to earth people, either that or the places I am hanging out just aren't the right places. Patience is key I suppose....

 

If your socializing consists of bar-hopping near where you live, the pool is limited to the kind of women hanging out in Central London bars.

 

Join a cycling group. Volunteer in support of a cause you believe in. Find a book club. Pick up a racquet, play mixed doubles. In other words, expand your circle...

 

Mr. Lucky

[testmeasure]

As with most relationships with narcissistic people, we shared a lot of passion, well in my head we did, that's obv something that keeps a hold on you for a while.

 

When it glows it glows bright. OMG, even in co-parenting when we do handoffs there is just this greater than life glow. Yet at my level of understanding I just know a single misunderstanding or disagreement is all that is between me being accused of being a hostile aggressor. Glow all you want, it's just a signal of danger.

 

Only reading more about narcissism and understanding the full package deal lets you wrap your mind around the value/consequences of the overall package.

 

I guess I had got so accustomed to that being the way life had to be, the emotional rollercoaster, the constant disagreements, that it became normal.

 

People disagree. We are individuals. It's how the disagreements are handled. Ever heard the term fair weather friend? A fair weather friend just disengages or doesn't help or pitch in when there is disagreement. Now apply that to a romantic relationship. Think of someone who only throws out positive emotions when there is agreement. But, as soon as there is disagreement they throw out negative emotionally loaded answers as a response to any attempt to reason with them. It'll spin you up every time. I can know this and say it, but it still happens to me when we have a co-parenting disagreement and it happens.

 

either 1) almost all women are in some way plagued by some serious emotional trauma, or 2) I am suffering from some emotional issues which I have yet to tackle.

 

Yes. Sigh. Read up on red flags. Study this. Research it. My ex did have specific early childhood trauma that should have predicted her emotional damage. When we first met there were red flags I ignored.

 

There is a thing where people who have had narcissistic people in their life are attracted to other narcissistic people and tend to attract other narcissists. It's part of the damage. There are detailed biological explanations.

 

.

Edited February 18, 2017 by testmeasure

[elaine567]

When I went to couples therapy with my ex, the topic of people-pleasing was raised, and linked to issues I may have faced when younger of having parents who expected a great deal from me, but it wasn't something that overly concerned the therapist, and as much as I would like to look further into it, therapy is just so expensive! I couldn't justify the costs after the amount of couples therapy we tried, to no avail I might add...

 

Watch this

[Harry_30]

A very interesting video, thanks for the link...

 

I can definately associate my behaviour with a lot of those things on the list, but the one that mostly strikes a chord is the uncomfortableness I feel when others experience negative emotions. This was evident in my relationship, where I would often try and do everything possible to prevent my ex from experiencing any kind of sadness or sorrow, even when I knew that the situation was far beyond my control. I have become much better at this recently by allowing myself to go through a thought process when situations arise that might result in people around me experiencing negative emotions, often which result in me allowing that person to experience that emotion.

 

One of the things I am really finding difficult is letting go of something that I feel I have invested so much of myself in. I can only imagine what it must be like for people further down the road, who have been with their partners for considerably longer... but given my nature, I threw absolutely everything into the marriage thinking that if I put enough effort into it, it would succeed, after all I had adopted that strategy into everything in my life and it hadn't let me down. When I look back and think of all the time/effort/care put into the relationship it saddens me to think its ended this way. I am almost jealous of people who have kids and are divorced, because at least they can say their marriage wasn't a waste, they were blessed with children from the experience.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Harry_30